Celtics vs. the Lebronaires

[nighthob]

Would anyone here take Andrew Wiggins over Terry Rozier? I wouldn't, AINEC.

Not many would. Wiggins' defense is the killer. He just doesn't try on that end.

And being in Minnesota didn't stop LaVine and KAT from improving their games year over year. Maybe Wiggins does develop better elsewhere, but he hasn't developed at all and has shown no improvement since his rookie season. Was there any question about Wiggins drive and work ethic prior to the draft?

The one knock on Wiggins coming out of Kansas was that he wasn't assertive enough to take over games offensively. That one looks like it panned out. But he was a great defensive player in college, so everyone assumed that he'd make it up on that end. He didn't.

Embiid and Parker are far better players, it's too bad their health is always a concern.

Embiid, yes. Parker, no. He did look better after coming back this year, not-so-coincidentally this was also the first time that he put considerable work into his conditioning while rehabbing from knee surgery since high school. The fact that this happened in a contract year was purely coincidence, I'm certain. I feel sorry for the Bucks as they're likely to give Parker a max deal in hopes that this is the real Jabari going forward.

Boston may end up with the best Jabari in the NBA within two years.

Boozer totally f'ed them on that. They had a gentleman's agreement and he backed out of it.

That's true, but it was Paxson's fault for trying to game the system like that. He could've said "Sorry, Carlos, but we'll give you the max next year."

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I wouldn't take Andrew Wiggins over Daniel Theis.

If they had similar contracts, I would. For all his warts, he can create his own offense and those guys are always valuable to have on the bench. I could see him doing ok in a Marcus Morris type role.

He'd be behind Marcus Morris on our depth chart though because Marcus Morris is a better basketball player.

 

[Saints Rest]

Not many would. Wiggins' defense is the killer. He just doesn't try on that end.



The one knock on Wiggins coming out of Kansas was that he wasn't assertive enough to take over games offensively. That one looks like it panned out. But he was a great defensive player in college, so everyone assumed that he'd make it up on that end. He didn't.



Embiid, yes. Parker, no. He did look better after coming back this year, not-so-coincidentally this was also the first time that he put considerable work into his conditioning while rehabbing from knee surgery since high school. The fact that this happened in a contract year was purely coincidence, I'm certain. I feel sorry for the Bucks as they're likely to give Parker a max deal in hopes that this is the real Jabari going forward.

Boston may end up with the best Jabari in the NBA within two years.



That's true, but it was Paxson's fault for trying to game the system like that. He could've said "Sorry, Carlos, but we'll give you the max next year."

I'm no capologist, but is there any way that the Bucks could be in on LBJ without giving up Middleton or Giannis?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Embiid, yes. Parker, no. He did look better after coming back this year, not-so-coincidentally this was also the first time that he put considerable work into his conditioning while rehabbing from knee surgery since high school. The fact that this happened in a contract year was purely coincidence, I'm certain. I feel sorry for the Bucks as they're likely to give Parker a max deal in hopes that this is the real Jabari going forward.

It's probably a bit much to say Jabari Parker is a much better basketball player, especially when I mentioned Embiid in the same breathe. With that said, Parker has at least shown year over year improvement and actually made a leap forward in his 16/17 season before being injured.

In 16-17 before his injury, he shot .365 from 3 point range after being a .250 3 point shooter in his first 2 seasons. He carried that over this year upon his return and shot .383 from the 3 point line this season. His assist rates in his first 2 seasons were 9.5 and 8.9 In 16/17, it jumped to 14.3, and after returning this year, 13.1.

I would much rather have him going forward than Wiggins. At least he's improving. You could make an argument that Wiggins has gotten worse since entering the league.

He's obviously not worth the max, but if some team is stupid enough to offer it, that's not his fault.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It's probably a bit much to say Jabari Parker is a much better basketball player, especially when I mentioned Embiid in the same breathe. With that said, Parker has at least shown year over year improvement and actually made a leap forward in his 16/17 season before being injured.

In 16-17 before his injury, he shot .365 from 3 point range after being a .250 3 point shooter in his first 2 seasons. He carried that over this year upon his return and shot .383 from the 3 point line this season. His assist rates in his first 2 seasons were 9.5 and 8.9 In 16/17, it jumped to 14.3, and after returning this year, 13.1.

I would much rather have him going forward than Wiggins. At least he's improving. You could make an argument that Wiggins has gotten worse since entering the league.

He's obviously not worth the max, but if some team is stupid enough to offer it, that's not his fault.

I'm not sure you can make an argument that Wiggins has gotten worse. I think the real problem with him is that he hasn't gotten any better. His numbers are remarkably similar all 4 years in the league. This year, his FT % dipped to 64%, which is a little strange and not very encouraging.

 

[NickEsasky]

Boozer totally f'ed them on that. They had a gentleman's agreement and he backed out of it.

The gentleman's agreement was also against the CBA. He probably did them a favor backing out or they would have likely ended up with the same fate the T-Wolves faced with Joe Smith.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I'm not sure you can make an argument that Wiggins has gotten worse. I think the real problem with him is that he hasn't gotten any better. His numbers are remarkably similar all 4 years in the league. This year, his FT % dipped to 64%, which is a little strange and not very encouraging.

One of the issues that comes when you hand a player playing time without making him have to earn it.

 

[nighthob]

The gentleman's agreement was also against the CBA. He probably did them a favor backing out or they would have likely ended up with the same fate the T-Wolves faced with Joe Smith.

He was their own player, so it wasn't remotely the same situation. And it was two different situations, it wasn't "Sign a below-market deal with us as a free agent and in three years time we'll give you a max deal to make up for it."

Boozer and his agent had approached Paxson and offered to sign a full-boat MLE deal, they just neglected to tell Paxson that they already had an offer from Utah on the table and they needed the Cavs to decline their option so that they could get to it.

 

[lars10]

I think it was apparent in the second half of Game 1 of the season. Weak defense and insufficient help for Lebron.

But it's an entirely different team since then.. The team is playing the same way now, but that team had both Wade and Rose on it.

 

[ehaz]

Now I know why we’re up 2-0

 

[joe dokes]

But it's an entirely different team since then.. The team is playing the same way now, but that team had both Wade and Rose on it.

Yet the basic problems remain. Clarkson can't play defense, Nance can't get off the bench.
Not sure if there's a point to be made here; just interesting how all of that at the beginning has come back around at the end

 

[TripleOT]

Would anyone here take Andrew Wiggins over Terry Rozier? I wouldn't, AINEC.

I just saw a FB post with Wiggins and superstar skills trainer Rob McClanaghan. If he can do for Wiggins what he's done for his roster of uber-stars, look out NBA.

 

[benhogan]

Nick Wright called for a sweep...he just had the wrong team.

 

[allstonite]

Nick Wright sucks

 

[benhogan]

More Nick Wright patheticness below. Go to 5:20.

Nick Wright's answer to a Cavs comeback is: Cedi Osman

Chris Carter eventually blows him up (@ 6:30). Nick Wright's face is hilarious when Carter basically calls him a complete idiot.

 

[deanx0]

Nick Wright called for a sweep...he just had the wrong team.

This is hilarious to listen to after the fact

 

[Van Everyman]

Didn’t Carter destroy Nick Wright about the Jax Pats AFC title too? That was glorious if I’m remembering it right.

Re. Boozer, IIRC, that all happened with the previous owner and there were all kinds of “DAMN, BOOZ, YOU STUCK IT TO A BLIND MAN!” reactions.

Also, Windhorst’s piece on the organizational dysfunction in all of Lebron’s teams nails why the Cavs lost Kyrie – and also, why it was such a travesty for Cavs fans. Those guys complemented each other’s skills so well. Maybe not well enough to beat a healthy GSW w Durant but well. Not that I’m sad about it but you have to think Lebron is kicking himself for not handling this better a long time ago.

Regarding the actual matchup, I know we tend to crap on Tristan Thompson’s game in gamethreads but I loved this:

Thompson also believes that the Celtics are playing a specific brand of Boston basketball that has endeared them to the region.

“They’re playing hard and chippy, and I love that,” he said. “I love that. I think the city of Boston loves players like that. That emulates their city, and Cleveland is the same way. We’ve got some chippy players like myself, and that’s what the city is about, so it’s good that they bring that to their team.”

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2018/05/18/cavs-notes-ty-lue-explains-gooning-comments-lebrons-supporting-cast-knows-need-step/

 

[Red Averages]

He’d actually fit off our bench in the Baynes role but I can’t see that ever occurring for salary reasons. Dude has a motor and a magnet for rebounds.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Didn’t Carter destroy Nick Wright about the Jax Pats AFC title too? That was glorious if I’m remembering it right.

Re. Boozer, IIRC, that all happened with the previous owner and there were all kinds of “DAMN, BOOZ, YOU STUCK IT TO A BLIND MAN!” reactions.

Also, Windhorst’s piece on the organizational dysfunction in all of Lebron’s teams nails why the Cavs lost Kyrie – and also, why it was such a travesty for Cavs fans. Those guys complemented each other’s skills so well. Maybe not well enough to beat a healthy GSW w Durant but well. Not that I’m sad about it but you have to think Lebron is kicking himself for not handling this better a long time ago.

Regarding the actual matchup, I know we tend to crap on Tristan Thompson’s game in gamethreads but I loved this:



https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2018/05/18/cavs-notes-ty-lue-explains-gooning-comments-lebrons-supporting-cast-knows-need-step/

Boozer definitely came out of it looking bad and he got a reputation because of it.

 

[the moops]

He’d actually fit off our bench in the Baynes role but I can’t see that ever occurring for salary reasons. Dude has a motor and a magnet for rebounds.

He is making 35 million over the next twotwo ye. Baynes made 4.3 million this year. It is ridiculous to pay a backup big anywhere close to what TT makes

 

[Smokey Joe]

Boozer totally f'ed them on that. They had a gentleman's agreement and he backed out of it.

He and his scumbag agent. The whole thing caused such a stink that his agency invited Boozer to leave and fired his agent, What was that jerks name....?

Oh yeah, Rob Pelinka.

 

[Devizier]

He’d actually fit off our bench in the Baynes role but I can’t see that ever occurring for salary reasons. Dude has a motor and a magnet for rebounds.

I know their listed sizes are similar but Baynes probably has 2 inches, 30+ pounds on Thompson. Also, please no Kardashians.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Fun article about JB's play against LBJ here: https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/5/18/17360106/boston-celtics-jaylen-brown-continues-to-relentlessly-attack-lebron-james-and-cleveland-cavaliers.

Story includes one clip from last year. I hadn't realized how much bugger JB is. His workouts are paying off.

 

[benhogan]

He’d actually fit off our bench in the Baynes role but I can’t see that ever occurring for salary reasons. Dude has a motor and a magnet for rebounds.

a few frilly words and you're counting ceiling tiles

Baynes is turning into 3pt threat right before our very eyes. If we could re-sign Aron for $10M for 2yrs in the off-season Ainge should jump at that. TT is a terrible FT shooter and has never attempted a 3pt shot.

Baynes is a much better fit for the Celtics, without even considering salary implications.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

As short as the Celtics rotation has gotten - basically 7 players plus a few odd minutes from Semi and Monroe - Stevens still hasn't really increased player minutes that much. The Celtics have nobody in the top 10 in minutes per game. Rozier, Tatum, and Horford lead the way for the Celtics in minutes per game, but at a relatively modest 37, 35, and 35 minutes per game.

 

[Reverend]

Fun article about JB's play against LBJ here: https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/5/18/17360106/boston-celtics-jaylen-brown-continues-to-relentlessly-attack-lebron-james-and-cleveland-cavaliers.

Story includes one clip from last year. I hadn't realized how much bugger JB is. His workouts are paying off.

He’s listed as 20 pounds heavier than Tatum.

 

[Reverend]

Fun article about JB's play against LBJ here: https://www.celticsblog.com/2018/5/18/17360106/boston-celtics-jaylen-brown-continues-to-relentlessly-attack-lebron-james-and-cleveland-cavaliers.

Story includes one clip from last year. I hadn't realized how much bugger JB is. His workouts are paying off.

From that—this is awesome:

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Is he already the most well spoken guy in the NBA? I could listen to him talk all day.

 

[Montana Fan]

Is he already the most well spoken guy in the NBA? I could listen to him talk all day.

Now you did it. And that video is prior to him playing a game for the Celts.

 

[djbayko]

Is he already the most well spoken guy in the NBA? I could listen to him talk all day.

Uh oh. Waiting for someone to accuse you of being racist...

 

[lovegtm]

He is making 35 million over the next twotwo ye. Baynes made 4.3 million this year. It is ridiculous to pay a backup big anywhere close to what TT makes

Not to mention the fact that Baynes is probably the better player, especially if the 3-ball is at all for real.

But muh rebounds!!!!!

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

Delete - meant for gamethread.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Love that one statement: "I don't believe anyone works as hard as me, especially not in this draft class."

 

[Sam Ray Not]

Is he already the most well spoken guy in the NBA? I could listen to him talk all day.

The grow ‘em smart at Cal!

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Well, it's a series now. I don't think the Celtics can afford to "Milwaukee" this series against James and the Cavs. If they no show in game 4, they might as well pack it in.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Well, it's a series now. I don't think the Celtics can afford to "Milwaukee" this series against James and the Cavs. If they no show in game 4, they might as well pack it in.

Pack it in? Seriously?

 

[DJnVa]

Well, it's a series now. I don't think the Celtics can afford to "Milwaukee" this series against James and the Cavs. If they no show in game 4, they might as well pack it in.

No one jumps off the bandwagon like Celtics fans.

Only one team has to win on the road in this series.

Role players play better at home, Cleveland has like 6 of them. Celtics will respond in game 4.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

No one jumps off the bandwagon like Celtics fans.

Only one team has to win on the road in this series.

Role players play better at home, Cleveland has like 6 of them. Celtics will respond in game 4.

They don't have to win on the road, but they do have to fucking show up and play ball. If they no show again in game 4, they are done. If they do show up in game 4, then even if they lose it I'd still think they have a shot in 7.

 

[Red Averages]

It's amazing what bad shooting and good shooting will do for a game. Celtics shot 22% from 3 and the Cavs shot 50%. That's the full story. Cavs made 33 more points from 3 than the Celtics did in a 30 point win. The only worrying thing about this game to me was that the Cavs got a lot of open looks based on bad switching and lazy defense. The Celtics finally had a bad shooting night, but they were getting a ton of good looks and just missing. Frustrating as that is, I think that's a fairly easy fix after a blowout loss.

We're onto Game 4.

 

[lars10]

Pack it in? Seriously?

Well you know how they've lost all those games at home...

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Cavs made 33 more points from 3 than the Celtics did in a 30 point win.

The only worrying thing about this game to me was that the Cavs got a lot of open looks based on bad switching and lazy defense.

These 2 things are not unrelated.

 

[lars10]

They don't have to win on the road, but they do have to fucking show up and play ball. If they no show again in game 4, they are done. If they do show up in game 4, then even if they lose it I'd still think they have a shot in 7.

If they don't show up in game four the series is tied 2-2. And they've shown they play much better at home.. if the Bron sidekicks shoot like they did tonite for the rest of the series it's a lot closer.. but I don't anticipate the C's shooting this bad again.

 

[lars10]

These 2 things are not unrelated.

But the Celts missing so many open looks is also related... in that the Cavs did put forth more effort, but their defense wasn't much better.

 

[Ed Hillel]

HMMMMMM....

Stevens hints at Game 4 adjustment: "Right now, with the way they’re playing, we’re going to need some other guys to be ready to go come Monday."

...

Nahhhhh...

Right?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

The GH game is upon us!!!!!

 

[the moops]

The GH game is upon us!!!!!

Yes!

 

[Kliq]

I think the long layoff hurt the Celtics; they were in a great rhythm and then had three days to rest while Cleveland was able to heal some of those bruises and prepare to get back in the series on their home court. It also didn’t help that during that break every media member in America talked about how brilliant they all were.

 

[DJnVa]

They don't have to win on the road, but they do have to fucking show up and play ball.

Both teams have had a no show game.

 

[Red Averages]

I really just think we shot like crap. It happens. We never had a run and the game was never close so it’s tough to read too much into it. Anyone panicking after a game where one team shoots horribly and the other team can’t miss and tries to extrapolate that into the next 5 games needs to watch more basketball.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I really just think we shot like crap. It happens. We never had a run and the game was never close so it’s tough to read too much into it. Anyone panicking after a game where one team shoots horribly and the other team can’t miss and tries to extrapolate that into the next 5 games needs to watch more basketball.

(4 games)

Otherwise, I agree