Celtics vs. the Lebronaires

benhogan

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I agree that he might do that, but I'm just saying I'm not sure I would. But that's why Brad is on the sideline and I'm on the couch.
ha. The problem is we just aren't that deep. The obvious Kyrie/Hayward MIA hurts but so does not having Theis. Celtics have a 7-8 man rotation and they have to find a time to put Baynes on the floor for 15-20mins (that way MaMo and Horford can play 35-38 effective mins)

TT is the guy Baynes has to play. TT has been a nuisance for the Celtics in the past, Aron can neutralize him.

Also Horford doesn't match up well with TT, while Al plays Love well. Baynes on Love is a matchup we want to avoid.
 
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Captaincoop

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Cleveland has a 6 or 7 (effective) man rotation. TT is going to have to guard someone. He gets 2 early fouls, the whole plan goes out the window.
So...the problem with that plan is that the officials never call fouls on Tristan Thompson in Celtics playoff games.

He sets screens with two hands openly engaged in holding the defender, he shoves people out of the way for rebounds...nothing.
 

JakeRae

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Probably. But Morris/Tatum/Rozier all played mid 30s minutes. The point remains he can get a lot of minutes without starting so it shouldn’t be ruled out.
That's not a counterpoint. We are short-handed so even in a blowout some guys play full minutes. Brown didn't because he's the guy coming off a leg injury.

It's tough to not start and play 35+ minutes because it basically requires you to not rest more than a minute or two each half after you rotate in. Smart manages that somewhat regularly, just getting a couple minutes in the 2nd and 4th, but it makes particularly little sense to ask the guy whose legs are probably not 100% to do it. Brown will start. I'm not sure about Morris v. Baynes and see arguments both ways there.
 

Kliq

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I’m really not concerned about fucking Tristan Thompson swinging this series. If the Celtics lose; it will be because LeBron was a awesome, Love played like an All Star and some of their shooters got hot. I’m surprised to see how much talk has been about how Thompson is the key going forward. Yeah he can crash the glass and play with some energy, but he’s a limited offensive player and will be tested on defense. I’m not worried about him.
 

benhogan

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I’m really not concerned about fucking Tristan Thompson swinging this series. If the Celtics lose; it will be because LeBron was a awesome, Love played like an All Star and some of their shooters got hot. I’m surprised to see how much talk has been about how Thompson is the key going forward. Yeah he can crash the glass and play with some energy, but he’s a limited offensive player and will be tested on defense. I’m not worried about him.
Literally, NO ONE has said Tristen Thompson is the key going forward.

Go watch Brad in pre-game interview with Scalbrine yesterday. He is going forward with match ups. Brad HAS to play Aron Baynes for 15-20 mins a game, he will play Baynes when TT is on the floor. Baynes can't effectively guard anyone else and provides negative offensive value.
 

jmcc5400

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ha. The problem is we just aren't that deep. The obvious Kyrie/Hayward hurts but so does not having Theis. Celtics have a 7-8 man rotation and they have to find a time to put Baynes on the floor for 15-20mins (that way MaMo and Horford can play 35-38 effective mins)

TT is the guy Baynes has to play. TT has been a nuisance for the Celtics in the past, Aron can neutralize him.

Also Horford doesn't match up well with TT, while Al plays Love well. Baynes on Love is a matchup we want to avoid.
This is exactly right.
 

Kliq

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Literally, NO ONE has said Tristen Thompson is the key going forward.

Go watch Brad in pre-game interview with Scalbrine yesterday. He is going forward with match ups. Brad HAS to play Aron Baynes for 15-20 mins a game, he will play Baynes when TT is on the floor. Baynes can't effectively guard anyone else and provides negative offensive value.
That comment was not exclusively directed at the posts here; but a general comment on the amount of discussion Thompson starting has generated across all media platforms today.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Two out of the box ideas on dealing with Tristan Thompson.

1. He's most dangerous on the offensive glass right? Marcus Smart probably thinks he can box him out.
2. Baynes-Horford-Morris-Tatum-Brown.

The second one involves size in the frontcourt to match up with Love/Thompson/Lebron, with the tradeoff being no PG. In this situation, you rely on point Al to run the offense, with secondary ballhandling from Tatum, Brown, and Morris. Does Cleveland have a 5 man unit with Love, Thomapson, and Lebron that capable of capitalizing on a "no PG" Celtic lineup?
 

benhogan

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That comment was not exclusively directed at the posts here; but a general comment on the amount of discussion Thompson starting has generated across all media platforms today.
Fair enough...and you're correct Lebron and Love will be the difference makers for the Cavs, not Tristen Thompson.

I think people/media, myself included, are interested in the "adjustments" teams make during a playoff series. It appears that the Cavs first adjustment will be to start Tristen. Starting TT will not be a massive difference maker, its a fringe move. Nothing more than that.

In addition to that, any Cav adjustments will be anticipated by Brad and be foiled.
 

Kliq

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Simmons is on with Zach Lowe's podcast today. Just start it with your pants already off. They gush over Tatum, Horford, the future, etc. and it's wonderful
Zach goes on two epic rants; one is when he starts criticizing people who were hating on a Celtics piece and Lowe is like “What do you want me to do? Say that Danny Ainge did a crummy job on the rebuild ? That Jayson Tatum isn’t that good? How about that this might be the greatest rebuild in history, and that the Celtics are three games away from going to the finals with $50 million worth of salary out injured?

The second is when he goes on a blow-by-blow replay of how Al Horford rolling out to the three point line single-handily destroyed the Cavs defense. It’s actually incredible to hear a guy as measured as Lowe ranting like he’s on First Take.
 

Green (Tongued) Monster

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Two out of the box ideas on dealing with Tristan Thompson.

1. He's most dangerous on the offensive glass right? Marcus Smart probably thinks he can box him out.
2. Baynes-Horford-Morris-Tatum-Brown.

The second one involves size in the frontcourt to match up with Love/Thompson/Lebron, with the tradeoff being no PG. In this situation, you rely on point Al to run the offense, with secondary ballhandling from Tatum, Brown, and Morris. Does Cleveland have a 5 man unit with Love, Thomapson, and Lebron that capable of capitalizing on a "no PG" Celtic lineup?
TT had 4 offensive rebounds in game 1. But if I remember correctly, 2 of those came on back to back possessions in the 3rd quarter off of airballs. You can have inside rebounding position, but an airball kind of throws proper position out the window and becomes more of a luck play. I have cursed Thompson's name more than I would like to admit over the past couple years, but he does not worry me much at all against our roster.
 

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I only saw the first half of G1, but it appeared that the Celts decided to have whoever was being covered by LBJ go hide in the corner while the other Celts played 4v4 against the rest of the Cavs.
Seems like this would mitigate any attempts to wear out LBJ my making him play D, but it also took away CLE’s best defensive player.
Thoughts?
 

InstaFace

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I only saw the first half of G1, but it appeared that the Celts decided to have whoever was being covered by LBJ go hide in the corner while the other Celts played 4v4 against the rest of the Cavs.
Seems like this would mitigate any attempts to wear out LBJ my making him play D, but it also took away CLE’s best defensive player.
Thoughts?
Seems like a wise move. The day the Cavs go to a zone defense, which would be the normal response, I'll eat my hat. Normally, you'd expect them to switch to get James off that player and into the flow of defending the main offensive action, but the Celtics can respond by just taking that new player and swapping them out with whoever James had been previously covering. So it comes down to:

1) Can the Cavs pick moments and switch fluidly without giving up buckets in the course of switching?
2) Can the Celtics' players run the offensive action despite wings suddenly needing to take part in plays they weren't anticipating? i.e., are their players sufficiently interchangeable?
3) Can the Celtics abuse the new switches, such that the "hiding" player who now has a non-James defender on him can either get into the offensive action easily or immediately cut or otherwise take advantage of the momentary confusion? (sort of the flip of #1)

It's a strategy with obvious benefits (no James help defense) but also plenty of risks (most plays are for 5v5, plus the above questions). As usual, depends on if/how Cleveland responds.
 

DJnVa

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Tristan Thompson was -5 with 7 rebounds. I think he had 1 in the second half.
 

reggiecleveland

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1 turnover 2nd half for Cs. They made the Cavs work so much harder for their points.
Didin' watc bu the ESPN radio guys said Lebron packed it in with about 3 minutes left. Is this accurate?
 

Red Averages

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I eagerly await the shift in narrative we’ll get to read/watch unfold I’ve the next week. Love this team.
 

DJnVa

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1 turnover 2nd half for Cs. They made the Cavs work so much harder for their points.
Didin' watc bu the ESPN radio guys said Lebron packed it in with about 3 minutes left. Is this accurate?
Not sure, but after his neck issue he was different. NBA TV guys wondering if he might show concussion symptons tomorrow .
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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1 turnover 2nd half for Cs. They made the Cavs work so much harder for their points.
Didin' watc bu the ESPN radio guys said Lebron packed it in with about 3 minutes left. Is this accurate?
Pretty much the entire Cavs team packed it in with the game still in reach. They stopped rotating on swings, they got chippy and they had some of the worst body language you’d ever see. Even Van Gundy called them out on it.
 

benhogan

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Guard play:

JR Smith ($13.7M) 0 points
George Hill ($20M) 3 pts

Jaylen Brown ($5M) 23pts
Terry Rozier ($2M) 18pts

Its true, money can't buy you happiness.
 

benhogan

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I eagerly await the shift in narrative we’ll get to read/watch unfold I’ve the next week. Love this team.
Something to the effect that Celtics won at home (held serve) but they have struggled on the road in the playoffs. Also Bron is GOAT and can only carry the rest of the Cavs for so long. Celtic players and their suffocating defense will continue to get ignored by the mainstream media.
 

AimingForYoko

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Reporters are now asking Marcus if he thinks Lebron played differently after getting elbowed.

Get ready for this narrative, peeps.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Not buying that at all. The initial reaction and then how he looked walking off the court and in the tunnel you could tell his bell had been seriously rung. Once back out there he wasn’t really aggressive to the basket until the 4th and even then he made sure it was completely cleared out.

Obviously completely incidental but with the speed they were both going that was a pretty wicked shot to take and not be feeling some effects for awhile.
 

Kliq

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Caught this on a replay; right after the flagrant, Al gets the ball on the block against Love. For a second he holds up and motions as if to grab his right knee, the one he was limping on after the flagrant. This subtle fake throws off Love and gives Horford the edge to spin to his left and lay it in. It's fucking brilliant:

 

lars10

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Caught this on a replay; right after the flagrant, Al gets the ball on the block against Love. For a second he holds up and motions as if to grab his right knee, the one he was limping on after the flagrant. This subtle fake throws off Love and gives Horford the edge to spin to his left and lay it in. It's fucking brilliant:

I think he's actually wiping sweat off his right hand because he knows he's about to do..which is lay it in with his right. Ball probably had sweat on it or he touched Love's arm or something.
 

djbayko

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Caught this on a replay; right after the flagrant, Al gets the ball on the block against Love. For a second he holds up and motions as if to grab his right knee, the one he was limping on after the flagrant. This subtle fake throws off Love and gives Horford the edge to spin to his left and lay it in. It's fucking brilliant:

While Al deserves a lot of credit, I think there's a good chance you're giving him too much here. I'm not 100% sure what it was, but I don't think Love even saw that reach down. He may have simply been adjusting his shorts which might have rolled up to an uncomfortable position. I don't know.
 

djbayko

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Not buying that at all. The initial reaction and then how he looked walking off the court and in the tunnel you could tell his bell had been seriously rung. Once back out there he wasn’t really aggressive to the basket until the 4th and even then he made sure it was completely cleared out.

Obviously completely incidental but with the speed they were both going that was a pretty wicked shot to take and not be feeling some effects for awhile.
Yeah, it seemed wickedly obvious to me, as if anyone says he didn't get his bell rung, they weren't watching the same Lebron reaction that I was.
 

reggiecleveland

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Lebron can't win with you guys. Had he said it affected him it would be seen as an excuse. He said, what he should say when he loses.

Also, he obviously wants to avoid concussion protocol.
 

ehaz

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Hill, Smith, Nance, and Hood played a combined 1 hr 22 min for 5 points. That is mind boggling.
 

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You have to think if the Celtics hit them with a big run in the first half Saturday, the Cavs will mentally check out the rest of that game and not even bother to show up Monday.
 

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Lebron can't win with you guys. Had he said it affected him it would be seen as an excuse. He said, what he should say when he loses.

Also, he obviously wants to avoid concussion protocol.
I think a lot of people are still trying to figure out if he was concussed, which is why they're talking about it.

As opposed to those of us who know that he's concussed. So it looks different. :)
 

Soxfan in Fla

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I think a lot of people are still trying to figure out if he was concussed, which is why they're talking about it.

As opposed to those of us who know that he's concussed. So it looks different. :)
Putting aside whether he was concussed by definition or not, the effects changed his aggressiveness until they were down 10. Even then, he wasn’t driving into any areas where there was a crowd of players.

I think he feared a second shot would definitely concuss him. Whatever minimal protocol they did, he obviously passed but I think he knew he wasn’t quite right either.
 

joe dokes

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Not buying that at all. The initial reaction and then how he looked walking off the court and in the tunnel you could tell his bell had been seriously rung. Once back out there he wasn’t really aggressive to the basket until the 4th and even then he made sure it was completely cleared out.

Obviously completely incidental but with the speed they were both going that was a pretty wicked shot to take and not be feeling some effects for awhile.
It's not football, but those guys are moving when they collide. Look at Larkin. Concussion or not, it had to hurt something.
 

CantKeepmedown

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After LeBron took the first FT (after the hit) he definitely looked like he was unsure of himself. He even motioned to the bench that he wanted to come out, and seemed annoyed when he missed the FT allowing him to immediately come out (CLE fouled to make it happen).

He may not have a concussion but I can't see how it didn't affect him for the rest of the night. Whether a sore neck (which was reported), a headache, or just being groggy, he didn't seem the same. I give him credit for not using it as an excuse, which he easily could have.
 

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Hate to say it, but the hit he took was the result of reckless conduct by Tatum. He had no real shot at stealing the ball, but a collision was certain. If the shoe had been on the other foot, we'd be screaming for a technical at least, maybe a suspension.
 

Gash Prex

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No way - not even close - that’s absurd and nobody even thinks it was remotely anything but incidenental. Tatum was going for the ball. James just gathered it .2 seconds before Tatum got there
 

HomeRunBaker

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That comment was not exclusively directed at the posts here; but a general comment on the amount of discussion Thompson starting has generated across all media platforms today.
Thompson is a key figure for Lue in the sense that he dictates who Brad plays and when he plays them since TT is a terror vs Horford. It's critical to have Baynes on the floor for much if not all of TT's minutes or it forces matchup problems at multiple positions. So he IS a key factor in the lineups we have on the floor or else TT HAS shown that he can change a game against us......Baynes is literally our neutralizer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Putting aside whether he was concussed by definition or not, the effects changed his aggressiveness until they were down 10. Even then, he wasn’t driving into any areas where there was a crowd of players.

I think he feared a second shot would definitely concuss him. Whatever minimal protocol they did, he obviously passed but I think he knew he wasn’t quite right either.
"LeBron, can you breathe? Are you alive? Alright, get back out there you're good to go."

Not sure this is even much hyperbole lol.