Chris Paul traded to Houston
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Glad to see a team going all in and trying to beat Golden State. It'll be clunky with Paul/Harden for a while, but they're both so talented and have such well-rounded games that they'll figure it out. Love the idea, in theory, of surrounding two amazing pnr ball handlers with shooters.
If they can find a way to find somebody that makes Durant work hard, they're on to something with Paul/Harden/Capella/Gordon/Ariza.
If they can find a way to find somebody that makes Durant work hard, they're on to something with Paul/Harden/Capella/Gordon/Ariza.
Chris Paul is undoubtedly a better player, but I think that this version of the Cavs is better with Kyrie just based on his skill set and ability to shoulder some of the offensive load when James rests. Does that make sense?
Apparently it's legal - https://www.thescore.com/news/1325795 - as HOU now has CP's Bird rights.
Note that CP also gets a $3.6M trade kicker that I presume he wouldn't have gotten if he signed as a free agent. I wonder if people who are trying to figure out if HOU has cap room to get PG are including CP's trade kicker?
From what I've read Chris Paul is allowed to waive the trade kicker. Seeing as how this trade won't completed until the new league year the decision probably won't be made until after Houston finishes their free agent shopping.
Chris Paul is a genius. He gets the full $205 million plus the $24 he's due this year and the trade kicker if he wants it. That's substantially more than had he signed as a free agent this summer and then tried to get another deal five years from now.
Plus, he was knee deep in negotiating all of the CBA provisions that affected him.
From a "lesson learned" standpoint, if the NBA owners are willing to put in the super-max provisions to try to keep players with their teams, maybe they should have included a clause that the supermax is only available to players who stay with their teams? A simple rule would be that a player can receive a supermax contract only for a team with whom he was playing when making one of the required criteria.
I am puzzled how Houston would add a third star, as they are rumored to be trying to do
(among other sources) . What assets do they have? Capela, but they need him. Some (low) firsts. Is there something material I am missing which would enable them to do this, or just wishful thinking really?
I guess Ryan Anderson and Gordon, with their own 1st, are the idea. Doesn't feel like you get close to a 'star' wtih that
(among other sources) . What assets do they have? Capela, but they need him. Some (low) firsts. Is there something material I am missing which would enable them to do this, or just wishful thinking really?
I guess Ryan Anderson and Gordon, with their own 1st, are the idea. Doesn't feel like you get close to a 'star' wtih that
I would think the defensive upgrade from Irving to Paul would be more significant than any loss on the offensive end. Defense is where the Cavs really fell short last year.
The Rockets have reportedly traded for Tim Quarterman (Blazers) and De Andre Liggins (Mavericks) in the past hour (per Woj). They're busy trying to make the numbers work out for themselves.
There is a provision for players with less than 10 years of experience. They can only sign the "super max" if they are on the same team that had them during their rookie contract. However, that is even having unintended consequences as both Sacramento and Chicago reportedly moved Cousins and Butler in part because of apprehension over extending a "super max" offer.
I wonder if Danny gets involved here and sends some of the non-guaranteed contracts to Houston to start the cap space creating.
This article - https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/06/rockets-acquire-tim-quarterman-from-blazers.html - says that the Rockets are about $1.589MM short on salaries for the Paul trade so acquired Quarterman and Liggins for cash so they can send out more salary.
I know you don't like Melo (understandably), but his ideal role all along has been as a 3rd player on a title contender. He can take less from NY and accept a buyout and then sign with HOU and his buddy Paul for the midcap exemption which I believe they're currently trying to open up.
Although this breaks down as an idea when you remember that Melo and D'Antoni kind of hate each other from their time in NYC, so maybe never mind.
Houston will probably try to wrap this Paul deal before Saturday and then work to move some combination of Ariza/Gordon/Anderson to open up cap space for another top guy. I'm not sure what those guys can bring back as trade pieces but teams are going to be desperate when the big names come off the board in free agency. Happens every year.
I agree conceptually, and actually thought of him as well---but that'd have to be a buyout not a trade as they can never fit him within their cap at this point, right? Unless I'm missing something. Should have clarified the comment was specifically about a trade.
I actually think Carmelo is getting to point where teams might find him interesting, as he won't cost much (if anything) in a trade and he might now recognize he's not the alpha on a contender at this point in his career. The guy can still score, pass, and be a useful 3/4 so long as the load isn't too much.
This article - https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/28/15886854/chris-paul-houston-rockets-trade-no-cap-space-nba-free-agency - looks to be a good synopsis of the cap machinations that are ongoing in HOU. Takeaway: Rockets couldn't have gotten Paul to sign with them in free agency so they had to convince LAC and Paul to have Paul opt-in and trade him.
At this point, I don't think we know whether Paul is or is not waiving all or part of his trade kicker (note: I learned today that if a player waives any part of a trade kicker, then that player's contract may not be renegotiated for six months following the trade (see Q#61).
And until we know whether Paul is waiving all or part of his trade kicker, we won't know exactly how much salary HOU has to send out.
Morey going to have some more hagiography written about him after this deal.
At this point, I don't think we know whether Paul is or is not waiving all or part of his trade kicker (note: I learned today that if a player waives any part of a trade kicker, then that player's contract may not be renegotiated for six months following the trade (see Q#61).
And until we know whether Paul is waiving all or part of his trade kicker, we won't know exactly how much salary HOU has to send out.
Morey going to have some more hagiography written about him after this deal.
Brian Windhorst @WindhorstESPN 2h2 hours ago
Chris Paul opting in instead of signing new max contract now will cost him about $11 million next season. But he has a $3.6M trade kicker.
Chris Paul opting in instead of signing new max contract now will cost him about $11 million next season. But he has a $3.6M trade kicker.
David Aldridge @daldridgetnt 59s59 seconds ago
So (take a breath): Beverley, Williams, Dekker, Harrell, Kelly, Liggins, Quarterman & 2018 first (small protection) to Clippers for CP3.
BTW, the contracts for the last three players are non-guaranteed and are merely for cap purposes.
So (take a breath): Beverley, Williams, Dekker, Harrell, Kelly, Liggins, Quarterman & 2018 first (small protection) to Clippers for CP3.
BTW, the contracts for the last three players are non-guaranteed and are merely for cap purposes.
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I'm less bullish on Paul than most. I have the same ball-sharing concerns that everyone else and I understand that in the end the two talents are so great that they should be able to figure it out; but I'm not sure if that is really true. Both players like having the ball, but every basketball player does. Paul is more of a control freak; I think a lot of the things that are said about Oscar could be said about Paul as well. This is a totally unscientific assessment, but for all his talent Paul doesn't strike me as a "winning player".
Statistically and arbitrarily, Paul is one of the three or four best players in the league and has been for almost a decade. If you are looking for the ideal, classic point guard Paul checks off all the boxes better than anyone since Oscar himself. Yet, here he is heading into Season 13 and he hasn't appeared in a conference final. It isn't like he has been saddled with a shit supporting cast either, he has been paired with two perennial All-Stars, a decent batch of role players and a veteran coach that has a track record of success. He isn't losing to the typical superteams all the time either, getting cleaned out by the flawed Rockets team from a couple years ago and losing to Utah this year are just the latest examples of Paul-led teams coming up short.
Paul statically is dominant and for all intents and purposes is one of the best PGs ever. But he hasn't had the same success as Magic, or Isiah or Frazier or even Jason Kidd. I think that asks the question of just how conducive both his skill set and his personality are to winning in the playoffs against good teams. Maybe being surly all the time and chastising officials and always needing to control the game isn't that productive. I think potentially he could have great success in Houston, but I think it is almost more likely that they lose to San Antonio in the second round; it is just what Chris Paul teams do.
Statistically and arbitrarily, Paul is one of the three or four best players in the league and has been for almost a decade. If you are looking for the ideal, classic point guard Paul checks off all the boxes better than anyone since Oscar himself. Yet, here he is heading into Season 13 and he hasn't appeared in a conference final. It isn't like he has been saddled with a shit supporting cast either, he has been paired with two perennial All-Stars, a decent batch of role players and a veteran coach that has a track record of success. He isn't losing to the typical superteams all the time either, getting cleaned out by the flawed Rockets team from a couple years ago and losing to Utah this year are just the latest examples of Paul-led teams coming up short.
Paul statically is dominant and for all intents and purposes is one of the best PGs ever. But he hasn't had the same success as Magic, or Isiah or Frazier or even Jason Kidd. I think that asks the question of just how conducive both his skill set and his personality are to winning in the playoffs against good teams. Maybe being surly all the time and chastising officials and always needing to control the game isn't that productive. I think potentially he could have great success in Houston, but I think it is almost more likely that they lose to San Antonio in the second round; it is just what Chris Paul teams do.
Pritchard has his hands tied in Indiana and will only get for Paul George what the team Paul George agrees to remain with long term. If George only wants to go to Houston past this season Pritchard is really limited in what he can get in return based on the available assets that team has.
Should George go for a couple low firsts, Gordon, and Anderson this board will blow up with "Ainge couldn't have topped that?" Yes, of course he could have but he never would for a one-year rental especially if George didn't want to be here which is why deals like that never go down......similar to Pierce refusing to play in Portland in exchange for ironically, the draft pick that would have been Chris Paul years ago.
Don't rule George out.
Edit: The other thing acquiring Paul does is limit the usage of Harden much like Durant did with Curry last season. So yes, you are getting a massive upgrade with Paul over Beverley however you are simultaneously losing a good part of Harden's value in the process. His numbers will take a hit.
Bradley, Crowder and Smart are nice players but they aren't very attractive to a rebuilding team like the George-less Pacers. The only real piece of value to them is the LAL/Sac pick and I'm not sure that is on the table unless he agrees to an extension. If he prefers Houston he can just say "no extension" and Indiana's hands are tied. The players and agents have the leverage in these negotiations, not the teams.
Honestly, and more worrisome, is the fact that the Rockets probably have a better shot of landing Hayward in a sign & trade if they push hard enough. Ryan Anderson and one of their FAs re-signed to a similar deal (1+1 with a team option) would work within Hayward's salary guidelines.
While the Rockets fan in me would rejoice, it would kill me to see Morey wreck Boston's plans like that.
While the Rockets fan in me would rejoice, it would kill me to see Morey wreck Boston's plans like that.
What I've copied is interesting particularly since reports at the time were that the Knicks didn't want Crawford given the length of his contract: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-knicks-dont-want-clippers-jamal-crawford-in-carmelo-anthony-deal/
El Uno? Are you alive??
I dunno, I don't hate this move for the Clips. They weren't going anywhere just spinning their wheels; CP3 is still elite but right at the tail end of his peak; and they got a fairly solid return, all things considered (I really like Beverley, and think Dekker has NBA starter potential).
It's basically a reboot for a few years down the line, but that's not bad strategy with the Warriors what they are. And with Ballmer's deep pockets, Jerry West's wisdom, and the perennial allure of LA, I doubt they'll stay down for long.
Edit: as far as Morey and his run at the Warriors: bring it on, Dork Elvis!
I dunno, I don't hate this move for the Clips. They weren't going anywhere just spinning their wheels; CP3 is still elite but right at the tail end of his peak; and they got a fairly solid return, all things considered (I really like Beverley, and think Dekker has NBA starter potential).
It's basically a reboot for a few years down the line, but that's not bad strategy with the Warriors what they are. And with Ballmer's deep pockets, Jerry West's wisdom, and the perennial allure of LA, I doubt they'll stay down for long.
Edit: as far as Morey and his run at the Warriors: bring it on, Dork Elvis!
Paul, Lebron, and Wade will be free agents next year and Melo might get bought out. Looks like the banana boat team will happen somewhere.
Possibly true, although each could himself be traded for something of value (a younger player or picks). Plus, what about Rozier, Yabusele, even Jackson? Along with a Boston pick, maybe the Memphis pick. Boston can provide value in a wide variety of ways, while holding on to BKN and LAL/SAC.
Another thing they could do is have Bird rights kick in only if the players have been on the team for 2 seasons or more
If this is true (and personally I'm very skeptical given how some of the details contradict other reports) then you have to fire Doc Rivers and dump Austin on whatever team will take him. You simply cannot operate a professional organization like this.
Then again maybe he turned down the deal because he would have acquired Carmelo Anthony in it.
I don't believe this to be completely accurate. When Rivers had his breakout performances off the bench a couple years ago the ENTIRE team was genuinely ecstatic for Austin and they were ALL treating him on the sidelines like their little kid brother. Maybe stuff happened after that but this smells to me like typical shit that goes on when someone has left the building.
How the F does a SportsCenter anchor from the other side of the country document this information without it being from a 3rd or 4th party who may have an agenda to fill? I call garbage.
Isn't Austin a free agent this summer?
This is really an amazing move by Chris and his agents. He gets a shot to see if he can play with Harden for one season then assess how it went and sign long term or go elsewhere. Having little CP3 in the corner on all of Harden's dribble drive plus Gordon, Anderson, and Ariza wow.
Harden needs someone else to be the alpha, obviously, by his two huge disappearing acts in huge playoff games. This is a great move by CP3 and Dork Elvis.
This is really an amazing move by Chris and his agents. He gets a shot to see if he can play with Harden for one season then assess how it went and sign long term or go elsewhere. Having little CP3 in the corner on all of Harden's dribble drive plus Gordon, Anderson, and Ariza wow.
Harden needs someone else to be the alpha, obviously, by his two huge disappearing acts in huge playoff games. This is a great move by CP3 and Dork Elvis.
So he trades $7.4M for about what... $30-35M over the life of the extension he'll sign?
It would mean more to me if it wasn't someone in the Rivers family saying this.
Could be true. Who knows? And all that has to be true is Chris Paul's perception of what was going on, not necessarily that Doc played favorites, either intentionally or unintentionally.
Also, Paul could be unhappy with how Doc handled things without resenting Austin for it.
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Looks like Paul Pierce got waived by the Clips as part of the roster shuffling (presumably to make a roster spot for the cap filler contracts).
you would think teams wanting to create cap space would give up a 2nd round pick for a retiring player...wasn't Keith Van Horn that guy once upon a time?
In some alternate universe Doc Rivers didn't quit on the Celtics and I am glad I don't live in that timeline
I don't know how you are feeling but the Clips got a pretty decent haul for Paul. Dekker looks like he might be decent and Beverly and Lou Will are nice rotation pieces. To me, the sleeper in this deal is Harrell - from this write up you will note two things:
As well as this:
As noted, Harrell isn't a stretch but he has some skills (he also improved his assist rate) that are valuable. If he can somehow develop a reasonable three point shot, the guy has a chance to be a very decent piece for the Clippers. I wouldn't bet on it but even as is, he will give them a banger to spell their front-court guys, whomever they may be going forward.
Finally, Ballmer getting West and all signs pointing to West pulling the trigger on this trade tells me that your owner isn't content to just keep trying the same thing. It also suggests to me that Doc isn't long for LA which is a good thing. Ballmer will get someone younger and more progressive running the team because its the smart thing to do. And in the meantime, we will all cease wondering what malady will prevent Paul from taking his team to the next level (because there always seems to be something come playoff time). That's Houston's problem now.
Honestly, it was "meh" for me today when this happened. I loved CP's work ethic but at the end of the day, he's been just as disappointing and injury prone as Blake. And health is probably the thing that annoys me the most in team sports. I have no time/energy for injury prone players.
In terms of the team overall, the second they signed West I put my brain on cruise control. I'm not worried about anything. Yeah he can't work miracles but it's better than Doc. The pieces/team will shake out where they will add to that Balmer's has put his money where his mouth is and it'll be fine.
I mean, no one is touching the warriors, I barely cared about the regular season so until they age, does it really matter?
In terms of the team overall, the second they signed West I put my brain on cruise control. I'm not worried about anything. Yeah he can't work miracles but it's better than Doc. The pieces/team will shake out where they will add to that Balmer's has put his money where his mouth is and it'll be fine.
I mean, no one is touching the warriors, I barely cared about the regular season so until they age, does it really matter?
Bradley and Crowder presumably have some value in deadline moves as they are the sort of players contenders might want to add for the stretch run.