No reason at all to save Kimbrel. He's better when he works frequently. I want to see him pitch every game of the Series. Give him the Chapman treatment and let him walk this winter.
Craig Kimbrel: Dominant Closer
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They made a complete change to his set position.
He was bring his glove up to his head and today he left it at his belt. Big change that looks like it paid immediate dividends.
He was bring his glove up to his head and today he left it at his belt. Big change that looks like it paid immediate dividends.
Tipping your pitches doesn't make you miss your target by a foot and a half consistently.
Mechanical changes very well could, though.
He was tipping pitches and that led to not throwing strikes? I'm not following. Tipping pitches has nothing to do with not throwing strikes.
Or did he say that his hand position was out of whack, leading to messed up mechanics and the tipping of pitches?
From Tyler kepner of the NYT. Cora’s quote
“Because we knew he was tipping his pitches yesterday and he was gonna be fine. Yesterday his hands were up, today they were down. He’s been tipping his pitches for 2 weeks.“”
If hitters know the breaking ball is coming it's easier to lay off and not swing at a pitch out of the zone - a pitch he often relies on whiffs out of the zone. Relevant tweet from earlier:
Red Sox Stats @redsoxstats12h
In the post-season players have swung at only 9 of 41 Kimbrel curveballs, 22%, which is nearing a 50% drop from the regular season. They have taken 12 of the 14 he has thrown in the strike zone. I wonder if something is going on there.
That being said, Cora also noted his fastball command has also been off.
So the second one--the messed up hand position was throwing off his mechanics and letting the hitters know what was coming. Thanks for clarification.
Yeah...the dude wasn't close on a lot, so was just looking for a bit more of exactly what Cora said.
I kinda believe the tipping thing because Gonzalez struck out on 3 pitches taking the last one almost down the middle. That may have been a late proper response to oh shit, he's not tipping anymore, I thought a curve was coming in and I just got frozen.
he still walked Gurriel on 4 pitches, not as wild but still missing, and Kemp almost got it to the wall on another missed FB. Better but lots of work to do still.
he still walked Gurriel on 4 pitches, not as wild but still missing, and Kemp almost got it to the wall on another missed FB. Better but lots of work to do still.
That trade FINALLY pays off. Figured he'd do something useful for the team eventually.
More on Kimbrell tipping pitches:
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2018/10/craig_kimbrel_tips_scales_in_his_favor
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2018/10/craig_kimbrel_tips_scales_in_his_favor
Yeah, and Correa did him some favors by aggressively swinging at some bad pitches too, although I suppose that would fit the narrative of the Astros thinking that he was still tipping pitches. Anyway, its great to see him finally come through, but I'm guessing there's still a bit of wild ride with him before we win the championship.
Because he was tipping. And to expand on this RE: the post saying it was command not tipping... Craig Kimbrel is a 2 pitch pitcher. If he was tipping his curve it means he was also tipping his fastball. While you can just watch the game and say "well he just isn't throwing strikes" you must understand that Craig get's a lot of strikes outside the zone. If hitters know what pitch is coming in then he isn't going to get those high fastball swing and misses, those low curve swing and misses.
He looked like a different pitcher last night. The Astros were very late on the fastball and clearly had more uncomfortable at bats. I'm bullish on him moving forward.
Also, if he senses that he's not getting those swings and misses he's used to, that his usual tactics aren't getting the usual results, I can easily see how that could make him a little less confident in attacking the strike zone. He's always a bit wild, but that would certainly not make him less so.
Hard to read these quotes in hindsight without thinking about the effect of Kimbrel tipping his pitches...
This is a substantial change from one day to the next (well all in the same day too). Like, damn they really do work their ass off 24/7.
I love this team.
OK, I love the Eric Gagne seeing something on the video -- like Dustin Pedroia a year or two ago -- but if something is so noticeable on the video, why aren't the players/coaches discovering this on their own? Doesn't everyone do film study these days?
Fangraphs has the data, but you can only see it (as far as I can tell) by graphing it. The tables have links for postseason but they don't do anything.
Edit: nevermind, it doesn't show on the graphs, either.
Also, it's important to note they have zone percentage by baseball info solutions and by pitchFX, and the numbers are quite different!
So Kyle Snyder fixed Eovaldi and Eric Gagne fixed Kimbrel.
Now Kason Gabbard and Devern Hansack need to step it up and find a way to help us this year too.
Now Kason Gabbard and Devern Hansack need to step it up and find a way to help us this year too.
I was trying to come up with a partner for Kason Gabbard, for a joke. Well played.
I rarely to get to actual games.But at this game
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA200708050.shtml
The Sox just got Gagne, and he was warming up before the Sox scored 3 runs, then Tito handed the mop up duty to Snyder.
Brooksbaseball has this.
Yearly average swing percentage at curve: 36.93
October: 22.73
Kimbrel yanked a lot of fastballs even when he was pitching well.
We need to see footage of the before/after. I find it hard to believe those two glove positions were curveball (1) versus curveball (2) versus fastball (all). It's just too obvious. Tipping is usually a lot more subtle than that. Those positions are like screaming "breaking ball!" at the hitter during the windup.
Are we dealing with Red Soxian subterfuge (MLB's new favorite word)?
We need to see footage of the before/after. I find it hard to believe those two glove positions were curveball (1) versus curveball (2) versus fastball (all). It's just too obvious. Tipping is usually a lot more subtle than that. Those positions are like screaming "breaking ball!" at the hitter during the windup.
Are we dealing with Red Soxian subterfuge (MLB's new favorite word)?
Wouldn't be surprised if part of was mechanical as well. I don't expect Cora to tell us everything that is discussed between coaches and players in the dugout and bullpen. It's been noted previously that pitching schedules get thrown way off in October.
I think he meant, why did Kimbrel change before this? If he's been tipping his pitches for 2 weeks, what caused him to change 2 weeks ago?
And my guess is it's just a thing he didn't notice. I know he was having some issues his first game up with sweat causing him to get a bad grip. Could be just a rationalization for his struggles, or it could be that he unconsciously moved his hands up to get a better grip for the breaking ball and quickly developed a bad habit.
As a varsity coach, I have my own Ernie Adams. He doesn't come to our practices and maybe only a game or two per year. The kids know of him but don't really know him. He has access to all our film breakdowns. His advice is more valuable to me than any of my assistants. He is outside the program providing fresh eyes on everything we do without having seen all the processes that go into what we do. It really blinds him to any bias that can exist - relationships, confirmation, and so on.
It is a generally understood thing that if you were part of program or respected by the coach, they welcome the fresh eyes viewpoint. I invite a couple of retired coaches to come to my last day or two of high school tryouts. They often see something, good or bad, in a kid I missed.
I don't recall him regularly pulling his fastball during the playoffs. Tipping pitches makes sense. Kimbrel has always been effectively wild, getting swings out of the zone. If he's tipping his pitches that changes what hitters swing at.
It sure as hell can't be glove position that was the tip. Maybe by changing glove position he masked what was the real give away?
“So Kyle Snyder fixed Eovaldi and Eric Gagne fixed Kimbrel.
Now Kason Gabbard and Devern Hansack need to step it up and find a way to help us this year too”
Maybe Dernell Stenson can come back from the grave and help Leon.
Now Kason Gabbard and Devern Hansack need to step it up and find a way to help us this year too”
Maybe Dernell Stenson can come back from the grave and help Leon.
No idea about pitch tipping, but I just rewatched his last three innings. In the 8th and most of the 9th on Wednesday, he would look in, immediately bring his glove to his chin, get his grip and deliver. Starting with McCann, he would look in, get set with his glove at his waist, bring up to his chin and deliver (I don’t think this had anything to do with a runner on second, since it wasnt what he did in the 8th in that situation). Then on a Thursday, he would look in, get set at the waist, and deliver it from that position. Weird. No indication of why he changed for McCann. He did get two (hella scary) outs after that.
The athletic with a really good write up showing the differences for Kimbrel during pitch tipping and after the Fix
https://theathletic.com/601777/2018/10/20/the-tip-the-results-and-the-remedy-how-the-red-sox-fixed-craig-kimbrels-pitch-tipping-problem/
https://theathletic.com/601777/2018/10/20/the-tip-the-results-and-the-remedy-how-the-red-sox-fixed-craig-kimbrels-pitch-tipping-problem/
Maybe same stuff here, although doesn’t say exactly what Craig was doing.
https://www.12up.com/posts/6200755-one-of-the-worst-red-sox-ever-somehow-fixed-craig-kimbrel-s-pitch-tipping-problem
I read the piece at the Athletic.
When he held his glove up at his chest, he was holding it at a slightly different angle before he threw fastballs (sort of towards where a second baseman sets up) and curves (more towards the second base bag). This was likely because the glove covered a ball held with a different grip. It was subtle — maybe a 20° difference — but discernible, at least from behind.
So now, he's coming set with the glove at his belt, which hopefully conceals any differences.
When he held his glove up at his chest, he was holding it at a slightly different angle before he threw fastballs (sort of towards where a second baseman sets up) and curves (more towards the second base bag). This was likely because the glove covered a ball held with a different grip. It was subtle — maybe a 20° difference — but discernible, at least from behind.
So now, he's coming set with the glove at his belt, which hopefully conceals any differences.
Honestly. The Red Sox and pats sections are worth the price of subscription alone.
Did anyone catch the Cora interview on eei on Friday? If it is being mentioned elsewhere, please let me know where because I would love to see the discussion. Anyway, Cora said he made a point of looking at the Astros dugout when Kimbrel started pitching to see if they had any reaction to the change he made. Sure enough, he said when he started to get into position they all started looking at each other in a wtf manner. I think that is such a cool little story.