David Price 2017
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
I don't like elbow forearm issues, and we know how quickly and often they end up going down a specific path.
But we also know this is before the first start of spring training, and a time for caution and smarts, and given that the second opinion was planned before even getting MRI results, I'm slightly less worried. Nobody is sure if it is a blip or a bump or a boom, but I think there are good and reasonable explanations for it being any of those three.
Timing is certainly a concern, and if he needs a knife, I don't like too much "try rehab" to postpone his 2018 return too far, but one thing about elbows, unlike shoulders, is that the prognosis for full recovery is pretty solid, and with six years left on his contract, this by no means destroys it even if he misses significant time.
But right now my fifty cent piece is on Price pitching in a MLB game in April and not having any TJ surgery related to this injury.
But we also know this is before the first start of spring training, and a time for caution and smarts, and given that the second opinion was planned before even getting MRI results, I'm slightly less worried. Nobody is sure if it is a blip or a bump or a boom, but I think there are good and reasonable explanations for it being any of those three.
Timing is certainly a concern, and if he needs a knife, I don't like too much "try rehab" to postpone his 2018 return too far, but one thing about elbows, unlike shoulders, is that the prognosis for full recovery is pretty solid, and with six years left on his contract, this by no means destroys it even if he misses significant time.
But right now my fifty cent piece is on Price pitching in a MLB game in April and not having any TJ surgery related to this injury.
I sincerely hope this is a Tanaka situation where he gets PRP and is back in 6 weeks with no real lasting effects.
I thought something may have been wrong with Price at the end of 2015 when he skipped his final start completely instead of making a short one to keep sharp. Then his poor post season with the Jays. I said so when he was signed. The concern escalated after the signing with his diminished velocity. He did seem to turn it around at the end though, at least in the regular season.
Hopefully the Red Sox learned from Pablo and insured his contract. That 31 million could come in handy even if it still counts against the LT.
Did the Red Sox (DD) and Price know at some time in the offseason that the elbow was a potential issue? Price was certain that he would not opt out. The Sale trade. Those 2 events suggest they did but are not conclusive by any means. With Sale and Porcello the only healthy starters now, the rotation looks a bit wobbly. No help DOTF.
Trading Buchholz seems questionable now , at least it does if they had concerns about Prices health at the time, which is not a given.
Now with Price down and concerns about Hanleys shoulder , the 2nd guessing on passing on EE , Carter or Bautista will grow. Its really hard to blame DD because we don't know what he knew about Hanley or Price health, or perhaps more importantly, when he knew it. If he was blindsided by both he gets a pass obviously.
Maybe just maybe Big Papi is reaching for a bat about now, looking for a piece of Prices insurance money
Hopefully the Red Sox learned from Pablo and insured his contract. That 31 million could come in handy even if it still counts against the LT.
Did the Red Sox (DD) and Price know at some time in the offseason that the elbow was a potential issue? Price was certain that he would not opt out. The Sale trade. Those 2 events suggest they did but are not conclusive by any means. With Sale and Porcello the only healthy starters now, the rotation looks a bit wobbly. No help DOTF.
Trading Buchholz seems questionable now , at least it does if they had concerns about Prices health at the time, which is not a given.
Now with Price down and concerns about Hanleys shoulder , the 2nd guessing on passing on EE , Carter or Bautista will grow. Its really hard to blame DD because we don't know what he knew about Hanley or Price health, or perhaps more importantly, when he knew it. If he was blindsided by both he gets a pass obviously.
Maybe just maybe Big Papi is reaching for a bat about now, looking for a piece of Prices insurance money
Yes. In fact, this is why I would rather have Kopech, Moncada and the others. More bites at the apple means devastating single season (or single and a half season) injuries have less impact.
I don't think those facts add up to your conclusion. They traded for Sale first, remember.
We punch him in the dick.
How would having Kopech and Moncada and the others help mitigate this injury in a better fashion than having Chris Sale? None of those players were contributing in 2017.
The window would have been open longer. Instead of looking at a prime window of the next three years, we'd be looking at a less prime window that's much longer.
Yes, until Moncada continues to not be able to hit breaking ball and Kopech turns into Wild Thing.
I see what you are saying and agree to an extent, but that first sentence needs a tweak. "The window would have *potentially* have been open longer" (if Kopech and Moncada (and Espinoza) lived up to the promise).
Instead the window is still open now even if Price goes down for 18 months and we aren't ruing wasting the prime years of X, JBJ, Mookie etc. etc. because there isn't enough front line pitching.
If your assertion is the value of 2020 Kopech and 2020 Moncada help mitigate the still hypothetical loss of Price, I disagree. Price going down does not close our window or leave us in shambles, but with two additional prospects and no ace it could really be a blow.
Having Sale instead of Moncada and Kopech leaves us much more able to compete in 2017 through 2019 before we hit the next decade and who knows what (I know what...a Sale extension...), and I will gladly trade that high probability difference for the hypothetical future impact. Besides, as our current young core gets expensive, we are going to need pre-arb cost controlled guys to emerge, and if Moncada and Kopech are great, they will already start to get expensive in our "post-Sale" years.
And I actually see a lot more Billy Koch in Kopech so far than I see deGrom/Thor. And I still see way too many pitch recognition / trouble with the off speed for Moncada to buy in to the Cano comps. A friend on the international scouting side of the RS front office told me he still thinks Moncada will become a star, but right now I'll take the under, and prefer having a crazy dominant lefty ace on the roster than two uncertainties.
But back to David's left elbow, we do suddenly care about who our #7 starter is until we get some good news...
I don't think we should think this way. We are the Red Sox, not the Marlins. We complete every year. And we are not going to be the Tigers either. We're going to keep developing new talent. We trade Kopech and Moncada because we are confident that we are going to develop the next Kopeches and Moncadas in the next couple of years.
However, even if the Sox were able to insure the contract, they would be insuring an entire contract, not any particular year within the contract. See, e.g., Albert Belle. There is no way an insurance company would insure any particular year, unless the company had a burning desire to go out of business.
.
edit: OK, I'll correct myself. There is a market for insurance - see https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/09/09/worried-about-your-aces-100-million-arm-there-is-insurance-for-that/?utm_term=.1b6bb3600f53 - and some insurance policies do pay out if players miss a set number of days. But a couple of caveats. First, the insurance is not for the full amount of the contract, so that clubs who do insurance only get a certain % of the salary back; premiums are really expensive, so the payout is reduced even further by cost; and the Red Sox don't typically insure contracts - https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/05/04/red-sox-usually-avoid-insuring-major-contracts/c1T8NLpMtxF83vsRbMvRCM/story.html - but may have with Price.
Last edited:
To fans who came on board after 2004: this team can still win without Price. Sale will undoubtedly absorb most of those sub-par Price innings anyway. To those who were here before 2004: I already anticipated something like this. Things seemed to be going just a bit too smoothly. I am now waiting for the other shoes to drop.
A bit more details from PeteAbe in the Globe today.
FORT MYERS, Fla. — Red Sox lefthander David Price, a crucial member of a rotation that could be the best in baseball, will be in Indianapolis Friday to have a worrisome elbow injury examined by two specialists.
Price threw 38 pitches in a two-inning simulated game on Tuesday and felt fine. But he had swelling and pain the next day and was taken for an MRI.
Sox manager John Farrell said the test was “kind of inconclusive.”
The initial fear is that Price tore a ligament in his elbow and will need season-ending surgery. But friends described Price as being optimistic that the injury is minor and that the Red Sox are acting with an abundance of caution. Price even joked that he wanted to run the 40-yard dash at the combine while he was there.
“He was in much better spirits [Thursday] just based on the way he’s feeling, the way he’s doing everyday activities,” said Farrell. “When he came in [Wednesday] morning, there was a little bit more concern on his part just with the soreness that set in overnight.
“But as [Wednesday] played out, the treatment he received, he felt better by the time he left the ballpark.”
On Thursday, Price went through more treatment and showed improvements in mobility, grip strength, and range of motion.
“Positive signs in the 24-48 hours following the outing,” Farrell said.
The Red Sox said similar things about catcher Christian Vazquez in 2015 and righthander Carson Smith last season, and both needed Tommy John surgery. That the team so quickly acted to get Price in with specialists suggests there is serious concern about his elbow.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/03/02/red-sox-david-price-dealing-with-arm-issue/FWpXxH8szZVqtFSh9Ugv3N/story.html
FORT MYERS, Fla. — Red Sox lefthander David Price, a crucial member of a rotation that could be the best in baseball, will be in Indianapolis Friday to have a worrisome elbow injury examined by two specialists.
Price threw 38 pitches in a two-inning simulated game on Tuesday and felt fine. But he had swelling and pain the next day and was taken for an MRI.
Sox manager John Farrell said the test was “kind of inconclusive.”
The initial fear is that Price tore a ligament in his elbow and will need season-ending surgery. But friends described Price as being optimistic that the injury is minor and that the Red Sox are acting with an abundance of caution. Price even joked that he wanted to run the 40-yard dash at the combine while he was there.
“He was in much better spirits [Thursday] just based on the way he’s feeling, the way he’s doing everyday activities,” said Farrell. “When he came in [Wednesday] morning, there was a little bit more concern on his part just with the soreness that set in overnight.
“But as [Wednesday] played out, the treatment he received, he felt better by the time he left the ballpark.”
On Thursday, Price went through more treatment and showed improvements in mobility, grip strength, and range of motion.
“Positive signs in the 24-48 hours following the outing,” Farrell said.
The Red Sox said similar things about catcher Christian Vazquez in 2015 and righthander Carson Smith last season, and both needed Tommy John surgery. That the team so quickly acted to get Price in with specialists suggests there is serious concern about his elbow.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/03/02/red-sox-david-price-dealing-with-arm-issue/FWpXxH8szZVqtFSh9Ugv3N/story.html
"The Red Sox said similar things about catcher Christian Vazquez in 2015 and righthander Carson Smith last season, and both needed Tommy John surgery. That the team so quickly acted to get Price in with specialists suggests there is serious concern about his elbow."
Kind of a silly quote.
a) What does one have to do with the other, and
b) They were supposed to "wait" in order to see if it was serious or not?
I'm counting on never hearing anything about this last year or in the off season and this being his first simulated game. If there was concern about this in 2016, I'd imagine Price, his agent and the team would have had something to say - including a possible off-season regimen. It would be interesting to confirm that Price threw no baseballs this winter and that this week was the first time he sort of aired it out...assuming that's the equivalent of me doing one sit up after 4 months of substituting the bar for the gym.
Kind of a silly quote.
a) What does one have to do with the other, and
b) They were supposed to "wait" in order to see if it was serious or not?
I'm counting on never hearing anything about this last year or in the off season and this being his first simulated game. If there was concern about this in 2016, I'd imagine Price, his agent and the team would have had something to say - including a possible off-season regimen. It would be interesting to confirm that Price threw no baseballs this winter and that this week was the first time he sort of aired it out...assuming that's the equivalent of me doing one sit up after 4 months of substituting the bar for the gym.
Agreed that the Sox pattern from last year means little or nothing. But Price's career innings total, his reduced velocity last seasonI and the Dr. Andrews visit leaves me with about as much optimism as I had when it was 28-3. Here's to a similar surprise in this case.
There are about 30 million reasons why the team would be far less cautious with Price than they would Vazquez or Smith. The investment they have in him precludes them from playing the wait and see game.
Not sure how to interpret this: Either the news was good or he's going to be in for a round of talk radio obnoxiousness...
David PriceVerified account @DAVIDprice24 2m2 minutes ago
Indy is a little chilly right now so I'm gonna head back to fort myers! My 40 time was 4.11...ill let one of you name my island
David PriceVerified account @DAVIDprice24 2m2 minutes ago
Indy is a little chilly right now so I'm gonna head back to fort myers! My 40 time was 4.11...ill let one of you name my island
I tend to interpret that as good news.
I don't think he'd be in a joking mood if Andrews told him his elbow is hamburger.
I don't think he'd be in a joking mood if Andrews told him his elbow is hamburger.
Neither do I. But I have no problem with him joking around even if he does get bad news. He seems to enjoy inspiring talk-radio heads to seek new lows. Responding to bad news "the wrong way" would be a perfect way to do it.
I'd rather just read tea leaves or the entrails of a sacrificed goat to figure out how his consultation went. Probably a higher success rate than parsing tweets.
I'm not sure I agree with you on this. If you were told that you need surgery and were looking at 12-15 months of grueling rehab, I'm not sure that "trolling talk radio or Twitter" would be the first thing you think to do. That Patrick Bates level behavior there.
If Price starts tweeting out Huey Lewis and the News lyrics, you may have something.
I suppose. But if I have to fly back from Andrews-ville with an 18-month sentence to purgatory, what the hell else am i going to do, other than quote scripture or Jack Handy. And by "trolling," I'm talking about anything other than displays of abject sorrow, since that's all it takes to get the idiots idiotting.
Great news. Just hope this isn't a Carson Smith type of situation where he tears it down the road.
Sounds good, but when do we stop holding our breath after he throws, and plus one day of course?
I think it stands for Platelet-rich Plasma. That's the procedure where they take someone's blood, run it through a centrifuge or something to concentrate the platelets, and then inject the concentrated platelets into an injured area. Please correct me if I've got that wrong.
Correct. Tanaka had that when he had a forearm strain and was feared he needed TJS. He got the PRP and has had no major problems since. I believe Koji had that a while ago too.
