DeAndre Hopkins signs with TEN

[Shelterdog]

And why exactly are they conserving again? Isn't the young QB on a rookie deal this huge advantage in cap allotment that teams have used to put together contenders? Wasn't 2022 and 2023 precisely the time to keep making splashes before you either have to pay Mac or move on to start yet another rebuild with a different QB?

You know people talk about that all the time but it's not totally clear that teams really have done that. Buffalo and KC probably had a little more short term flexibility in roster construction as did Philly last year, the Seahawks were able to keep a good team together around a cheap rookie for a while, but generally speaking it's actually pretty unusual for the right things to match up (team has to be bad enough or incredibly luck to draft a good QB but then good enough to be good by year 2 or 3 that it's worth piling up for the short term. The window of when you have a lot of salary cap space because of your rookie QB starts to close in the player's fourth year.

Also the Pats did try and maximize that window, and they spent the cash money on Jonnu Smith.

 

[scottyno]

Yes, but not every cap dollar actually gets spent.

This is always a fun quote:
"The aggregate of our spending in 2020, our spending in 2021, and our spending in 2022 was 27th in the league in cash spending," Belichick stated in a press conference. "In a couple of years we were low, while one year was high. "But, over a three-year period, we are one of the lowest spending teams in the league."

Isn't that because went all in trying to win 1 more time with Brady in 2019? So if you looked at a 4 year window instead of 3 it's probably about average.

 

[Van Everyman]

Isn’t this whole cash/cap space thing just a matter of whether you have a lot of incentives? Meaning, the contract could go up to Y but the base is X, hence your cash spending is less than your cap.

That shouldn’t be surprising to me because it just suggests that Bill likes to weight contracts toward being performance-based so guys actually have motivation to buy in. If anything, that’s the thing that feels out of step with the times, more than the “I don’t believe you need to pay for performance.” As we saw in 2021, Bill pays when he needs or wants to. It’s how.

 

[j44thor]

Everyone keeps suggesting $$ and or Bill is the reason DHop didn't come to NE but I think they are looking at the wrong Bill. BOB was DHop's coach in HOU when he had a falling out and forced his way out of HOU. While they may claim the fences were mended in the media it is quite possible DHop was only using NE for leverage or as last resort. I wouldn't be surprised if NE would have had to significantly overpay what TN was offering given the circumstances between DHop and BOB. Vrabel was also the D Coordinator in HOU when Hopkins was there and had great things to say about him when he left to take the TN coaching job.

“I had a lot of interaction with him,” Hopkins said of Vrabel. “He’s one of those guys you could talk to off the field, not just about football, but personal stuff. Vrabel was good to me. It wasn’t just a football relationship with him, it was a personal relationship. Guys could relate to him.
“He’s a great guy. He’s not just a good coach, but he’s a good guy. He can relate to his players. The Titans are lucky to have him.”
“I think that was the best decision for the Titans organization,” he added. “He’s a winner, and he knows how to win championships, man. He has been part of an organization that has done it time and time again. With us, he did a great job. Last year we had a lot of injuries but guys still fought and played for him. I definitely think he’s going to be a great head coach. I am excited for him, and happy for him and his family.”

https://titanswire.usatoday.com/2023/07/17/deandre-hopkins-titans-mike-vrabel-comments-2018/

 

[johnmd20]

You know people talk about that all the time but it's not totally clear that teams really have done that. Buffalo and KC probably had a little more short term flexibility in roster construction as did Philly last year, the Seahawks were able to keep a good team together around a cheap rookie for a while, but generally speaking it's actually pretty unusual for the right things to match up (team has to be bad enough or incredibly luck to draft a good QB but then good enough to be good by year 2 or 3 that it's worth piling up for the short term. The window of when you have a lot of salary cap space because of your rookie QB starts to close in the player's fourth year.

Also the Pats did try and maximize that window, and they spent the cash money on Jonnu Smith.

Last year, the Bills, Bengals, Chargers, Jaguars, Ravens, Eagles, SF, Giants, and Miami made the playoffs with QBs on a rookie deal or a smallish contract.

That is 9 of the 14 teams who made the playoffs. It seems extremely clear that it's a big advantage.

 

[Reggie's Racquet]

Last year, the Bills, Bengals, Chargers, Jaguars, Ravens, Eagles, SF, Giants, and Miami made the playoffs with QBs on a rookie deal or a smallish contract.

That is 9 of the 14 teams who made the playoffs. It seems extremely clear that it's a big advantage.

If you have an offensive line that can give that quarterback time and that quarterback is mobile. Most of those teams have one or both of those things. We have neither.

 

[lexrageorge]

OL should be better this season.

 

[Shelterdog]

Last year, the Bills, Bengals, Chargers, Jaguars, Ravens, Eagles, SF, Giants, and Miami made the playoffs with QBs on a rookie deal or a smallish contract.

That is 9 of the 14 teams who made the playoffs. It seems extremely clear that it's a big advantage.

It definitely helps, I don't disagree with that, but I'm a little dubious of it as an overall team building technique--take the Giants, yes they benefited in year 4 of the Dan Jones experience from his low cost, but they were a pretty bad team for a bunch of years. (some of the teams you mention, including the Bengals, Dolphins, Jaguars, Chargers and even the Giants, all had a lot of pretty good first contract players acquired through the draft, often with high picks because those teams were shitty.) It's a very smart sounding moneyball solution but it's hard to actually implement being in a position where you have good talent around a young QB before the QB becomes expensive--normally you're only getting the good young QB because you suck!

I'm also not sure I'd characterize the bills (with Josh Allen on the cap for 16 million in 2022 which was about to explode upwards) and 49ers (with a high first round pick and dreamy Jimmy G on the roster) were low cost QB situations in 2022.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

I dont see any scenario where the Patriots sign Cook, and honestly, I don't know that Cook fundamentally changes the ceiling of this team as much as a high end WR1 would have.

I’m curious as to why? I think adding a proven game changing weapon at any skill position moves the needle. Either way you’re giving the defense someone else they actually have to worry about. Another matchup to exploit. As far as actually signing him, likely a pipedream but, it’s fun to think about.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I think it's quite possible that Belichick wasn't super impressed with Hopkins workout in Foxboro for whatever reason. The other explanation is that the Pats knew that they would have to top Tennessee's offer by 10-20% or even more to counteract the tax issue and the fact that New England wasn't necessarily his first choice, and Bill decided there was no point getting drawn into that negotiation. I just find those explanations more likely than Bill simply no longer being able to properly value wide receivers in today's game.

You bring up the millionaire tax often enough that I'm now 100% convinced that it is hurting your bank account. And I'm jealous.

 

[pappymojo]

It definitely helps, I don't disagree with that, but I'm a little dubious of it as an overall team building technique--take the Giants, yes they benefited in year 4 of the Dan Jones experience from his low cost, but they were a pretty bad team for a bunch of years. (some of the teams you mention, including the Bengals, Dolphins, Jaguars, Chargers and even the Giants, all had a lot of pretty good first contract players acquired through the draft, often with high picks because those teams were shitty.) It's a very smart sounding moneyball solution but it's hard to actually implement being in a position where you have good talent around a young QB before the QB becomes expensive--normally you're only getting the good young QB because you suck!

I'm also not sure I'd characterize the bills (with Josh Allen on the cap for 16 million in 2022 which was about to explode upwards) and 49ers (with a high first round pick and dreamy Jimmy G on the roster) were low cost QB situations in 2022.

The Chargers, in particular, seem like a cautionary tale to me. They had Herbert (I think he is over-rated but better than Mac) on a rookie deal and went on a free agent spending spree (JC Jackson, etc.). Yeah, they made the playoffs but were not a serious contender and they are already in a position where they have to make a lot of tough decisions regarding their players. It looks like they are restructuring contracts for this year to free up space and kicking the can down the road to next year, but next year looks like it is going to be a mess.

 

[lexrageorge]

You bring up the millionaire tax often enough that I'm now 100% convinced that it is hurting your bank account. And I'm jealous.

I may have brought it up twice? Has no impact to me. I can see where it may impact an athlete’s decision.

 

[Shelterdog]

The Chargers, in particular, seem like a cautionary tale to me. They had Herbert (I think he is over-rated but better than Mac) on a rookie deal and went on a free agent spending spree (JC Jackson, etc.). Yeah, they made the playoffs but were not a serious contender and they are already in a position where they have to make a lot of tough decisions regarding their players. It looks like they are restructuring contracts for this year to free up space and kicking the can down the road to next year, but next year looks like it is going to be a mess.

BB said, maybe it was in the Holley book, that you have to make a lot of good decisions to put together a team. Having a cheapo QB gives you more chances to make some good decisions--you have 10-20 million a year, perhaps more, in extra cap space over the short term so you can re-sign some guys or get a high cost free agent or whatever--but you still need to make smart choices.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

You bring up the millionaire tax often enough that I'm now 100% convinced that it is hurting your bank account. And I'm jealous.

I guess they would never say it publicly but I cannot recall the last time an athlete cited a tax rate delta as a significant factor in determining a destination. Like you I suspect that when this gets raised here it happens to be a bigger issue for those flagging it than it is for sports team recruiting but who knows.

 

[Van Everyman]

I guess they would never say it publicly but I cannot recall the last time an athlete cited a tax rate delta as a significant factor in determining a destination. Like you I suspect that when this gets raised here it happens to be a bigger issue for those flagging it than it is for sports team recruiting but who knows.

When I mentioned it upthread, @NortheasternPJ replied that Grant Williams spoke out about it with his decision to go to Dallas.

I still think it's kind of bullshit when you're talking about tens of millions of dollars and the reality is, it's more about teams "respecting" you by paying top dollar than actually what you bring home after taxes. But to some people I suppose it will matter.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

When I mentioned it upthread, @NortheasternPJ replied that Grant Williams spoke out about it with his decision to go to Dallas.

I still think it's kind of bullshit when you're talking about tens of millions of dollars and the reality is, it's more about teams "respecting" you by paying top dollar than actually what you bring home after taxes. But to some people I suppose it will matter.

I am sure its a benefit but I highly doubt its a major factor in most people's decision-making.

And IMO Grant was always going to go to whatever team offered him the most money, period. Even if that team happened to be in Taxachusetts.

 

[Van Everyman]

I am sure its a benefit but I highly doubt its a major factor in most people's decision-making.

And IMO Grant was always going to go to whatever team offered him the most money, period. Even if that team happened to be in Taxachusetts.

Exactly ... this is why we have guys constantly crowing about receiving the "biggest contract in history" whilst completely whistling past the guaranteed money graveyard.

 

[mcpickl]

And why exactly are they conserving again? Isn't the young QB on a rookie deal this huge advantage in cap allotment that teams have used to put together contenders? Wasn't 2022 and 2023 precisely the time to keep making splashes before you either have to pay Mac or move on to start yet another rebuild with a different QB?

I mean, the easy answer is they didn't see a lot in free agency they liked for the price, and they didn't have a lot of their own guys to re-sign to extensions...yet.

And no, I don't buy the theory that they have a young QB so just damn the torpedos and sign whoever the biggest names are for the biggest prices. Fans get so horny with "splashes". Were 2022 and 2023 precisely the time they were going to be contending for a Super Bowl? If no, why would they borrow against future years to make splashes?

I promise, the Patriots will know whether or not they need to pay Mac or move on whether or not they made more splashes over the last two seasons.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I guess they would never say it publicly but I cannot recall the last time an athlete cited a tax rate delta as a significant factor in determining a destination. Like you I suspect that when this gets raised here it happens to be a bigger issue for those flagging it than it is for sports team recruiting but who knows.

I figure that it doesn't factor in too much either, but don't know this for sure of course.

I wasn't really needling Lex. This topic keeps coming up (maybe he only did it twice, sorry...), and I'm starting to worry that I'm the only thousandaire here. Already pretty sure that I'm the only non-lawyer.

 

[mcpickl]

But we're now in 2023. The Patriots have $17m in cap space, 10th most in the league, have $110m next year (#1 in the league in cap space) and no huge contracts that I can see to use it on. Mac Jones may get a 5th year option that won't kick in next year (I'm sure they can move some cap around somehow if they need to to eat some of the cap) They can resign Godchaux, extend players like Barmore and Stephenson, but there's massive amounts of cap room in the future they're not leveraging to make the 2023 team better, they don't have any stars that are going to demand huge cap hits (outside of Mac Jones if they decide, but he'd get $30+ million after the option which his a whole separate thread if he's actually worth it)

I wasn't a big Hopkins guy but at the price he got, I'd 100% want him. Spending in Free Agency on a bunch of guys, like we saw in 2021 is usually a fools errand. Spending big on guys like Gilmore in isolated situations make complete sense. What are they going to do with the huge cap money they have?

I have no clue why people are fixated on next years cap space. Why would you want them to eat into future years cap space to spend on this years team? If there was a guy that upgraded them from borderline playoff team to division contender, I could see it? But was Hopkins that guy? Is anyone out there that guy?

And 17M right now, while 10th most in the league, isn't a lot. It's certainly not huge. The Patriots use per game roster bonuses as much as any team in the league. I think they might have the most. That, and other expenses throughout the season, is going to eat up most of that 17M. The teams that don't use as many per game roster bonuses, won't need to start with as much cap space because they already paid up front.

The Patriots had 9M in cap space on Labor day last year, after restructuring Jonnus contract, and that still wasn't enough to get them through the season.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I figure that it doesn't factor in too much either, but don't know this for sure of course.

I wasn't really needling Lex. This topic keeps coming up (maybe he only did it twice, sorry...), and I'm starting to worry that I'm the only thousandaire here. Already pretty sure that I'm the only non-lawyer.

Not a lawyer either and taxes are clearly a huge deal for some folks - I know people who will go to enormous lengths/expense just to shield their money from being spent by public servants and there is clearly a big industry around this.

That said, while I think some athletes are similarly focused on minimizing their tax liabilities, the majority seem to choose new destinations based on money, opportunity or lifestyle versus tax policy. In short, the people whose main focus are taxes and government spending are a very small part of the overall population. They are also by definition likely wealthier so its not irrational.

 

[BusRaker]

I assume you are talking about American sports. There was a bit of concern when France tried to raise the taxes of millionaire footballers to 75% that they would lose all of their stars

I guess they would never say it publicly but I cannot recall the last time an athlete cited a tax rate delta as a significant factor in determining a destination. Like you I suspect that when this gets raised here it happens to be a bigger issue for those flagging it than it is for sports team recruiting but who knows.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I assume you are talking about American sports. There was a bit of concern when France tried to raise the taxes of millionaire footballers to 75% that they would lose all of their stars

Apologies, yes. US sports.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Not a lawyer either and taxes are clearly a huge deal for some folks - I know people who will go to enormous lengths/expense just to shield their money from being spent by public servants and there is clearly a big industry around this.

That said, while I think some athletes are similarly focused on minimizing their tax liabilities, the majority seem to choose new destinations based on money, opportunity or lifestyle versus tax policy. In short, the people whose main focus are taxes and government spending are a very small part of the overall population. They are also by definition likely wealthier so its not irrational.

Agree with all of this. And there might even be a player or two that factor in all of the net costs when deciding on a new contract. But if this were a big factor, we would have been hearing about it a lot for years now. Like why isn't every player angling for Tennessee/Memphis or Florida teams? Shouldn't Tampa or Jacksonville be football powerhouses already? It's not really a thing.

 

[EvilEmpire]

If taxes in different states create a noticeable delta between offer values, it could easily be a factor for players interested in making the most money. And of course agents lay all that out for them. How often does that happen? No idea. For Hopkins, the taxes probably made that delta bigger, but the Patriots didn't make the biggest offer to begin with.

The millionaire tax is still pretty new and exacerbates that issue. If we ever see an impact on MA teams, I'm guessing it might be most noticeable with NFL contracts given that careers are often shorter and with less guaranteed money than other sports.

If it really is a thing, I think we'll have a better idea in a few years.

 

[DJnVa]

Report: Patriots Were Willing To Match Titans Offer For DeAndre Hopkins, Find Out What Went Wrong (msn.com)

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Report: Patriots Were Willing To Match Titans Offer For DeAndre Hopkins, Find Out What Went Wrong (msn.com)

Story is just regurgitating Breer's report.

The first is the Patriots, the presumed runner-up. New England was willing to match the max total ($15 million) for 2023, only with a far higher percentage of that total tied to incentives as part of an offer that, structurally at least, looked a little like Kansas City’s offer before the draft.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Dov Kleiman is a clickbait merchant, and a chode.

 

[DJnVa]

Gotcha. My bad.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Gotcha. My bad.

No worries, I don’t think he’s got a rep like incarceratedbob quite yet - he has a veneer of legitimacy as an human aggregator of NFL news on Twitter. But he pushes dumb shit all the time, like the late 2022 season ‘report’ - which was debunked immediately by local beat reporters to no response by Kleiman - that McDaniels’ job was in jeopardy.

 

[rodderick]

I mean, the easy answer is they didn't see a lot in free agency they liked for the price, and they didn't have a lot of their own guys to re-sign to extensions...yet.

And no, I don't buy the theory that they have a young QB so just damn the torpedos and sign whoever the biggest names are for the biggest prices. Fans get so horny with "splashes". Were 2022 and 2023 precisely the time they were going to be contending for a Super Bowl? If no, why would they borrow against future years to make splashes?

I promise, the Patriots will know whether or not they need to pay Mac or move on whether or not they made more splashes over the last two seasons.

Borrow against future years? They have no money on the books. Nada. Zilch. There's a shit ton they could have spent only to end up the team with the eighth most cap space in 24/25 or whatever. I'm not asking them to be stupid, I'm asking them to be aggressive. So they couldn't have gone after Orlando Brown Jr this off-season? They couldn't have traded for and then extended Jerry Jeudy? Why is it that so many people conflate spending with being careless? The team has holes and the team has a ton of money to spend. The team has very few future commitments. Why should they have to wait until they are on the precipice of Super Bowl contention in order to spend?

 

[mcpickl]

Borrow against future years? They have no money on the books. Nada. Zilch. There's a shit ton they could have spent only to end up the team with the eighth most cap space in 24/25 or whatever. I'm not asking them to be stupid, I'm asking them to be aggressive. So they couldn't have gone after Orlando Brown Jr this off-season? They couldn't have traded for and then extended Jerry Jeudy? Why is it that so many people conflate spending with being careless? The team has holes and the team has a ton of money to spend. The team has very few future commitments. Why should they have to wait until they are on the precipice of Super Bowl contention in order to spend?

Yes borrow against future years. That's how it works. It doesn't matter that they have no money, nada, zilch on the books for 2024 right now. If they still have 110M in cap space when next season starts, you'd have a point. It has nada, zilch to do with this season.

Sure they could've gone after Orlando Brown Jr. this year. He got 4/64 from Cincinatti. Safe to assume the Patriots would've had to more than match for him to choose to come here over there, yeah? So how far are you going? 4/80? 5/100? Are the Patriots a contender now with Orlando Brown Jr. on the team?

Could they have traded for and then extended Jerry Jeudy? That's a guy I had targeted this year, but was he traded? Denver still likes him, yeah? It's not a grocery store and you can just go in and pick what you want(sorry Bill Parcells). 31 other teams are trying to win too. I guess if you bowled them over with draft picks, maybe they would've traded him. Are you that much better that it's worth losing out on Christian Gonzalez at cheap money for five years if it cost you a first? Or would we then complain there is a hole at CB?

Everyone wants their team to be aggressive, move up in the draft, I don't care for who!, overpay for free agents!, but then when those don't work out, we bang on them for that too.

It's so bizarre to me that the Patriots get whined about non-stop for not spending money, when they end every season with minimal cap space and rollover whatever dust they had left. The way people complain about it you'd think they're just jamming extra cap space money in their pockets at the end of every season.

 

[rodderick]

Yes borrow against future years. That's how it works. It doesn't matter that they have no money, nada, zilch on the books for 2024 right now. If they still have 110M in cap space when next season starts, you'd have a point. It has nada, zilch to do with this season.

Sure they could've gone after Orlando Brown Jr. this year. He got 4/64 from Cincinatti. Safe to assume the Patriots would've had to more than match for him to choose to come here over there, yeah? So how far are you going? 4/80? 5/100? Are the Patriots a contender now with Orlando Brown Jr. on the team?

Could they have traded for and then extended Jerry Jeudy? That's a guy I had targeted this year, but was he traded? Denver still likes him, yeah? It's not a grocery store and you can just go in and pick what you want(sorry Bill Parcells). 31 other teams are trying to win too. I guess if you bowled them over with draft picks, maybe they would've traded him. Are you that much better that it's worth losing out on Christian Gonzalez at cheap money for five years if it cost you a first? Or would we then complain there is a hole at CB?

Everyone wants their team to be aggressive, move up in the draft, I don't care for who!, overpay for free agents!, but then when those don't work out, we bang on them for that too.

It's so bizarre to me that the Patriots get whined about non-stop for not spending money, when they end every season with minimal cap space and rollover whatever dust they had left. The way people complain about it you'd think they're just jamming extra cap space money in their pockets at the end of every season.

Every single team in the league ends every season with minimal cap space. It's literally in the NFL rules that the league as a whole has to spend up to 95% of the cap in a rolling average and teams individually have to reach 89% of it. But since no individual player makes them a contender, might as well save up. God forbid they push 10 million dollars into a future in which they have basically no commitments on the books.

And they aren't jamming cap space money into their pockets, but by not converting salary into bonuses to create space now while borrowing from future years, they aren't putting as much cash into escrow as they could and, I would argue, should. But this isn't even an argument I want to get into, because next you'll be catatrophizing about the Rams and Saints and how fiscal responsibility built the dynasty or whatever. Just as long as nobody is ever allowed to want them to sign good players at positions of need.

 

[Shelterdog]

Every single team in the league ends every season with minimal cap space. It's literally in the NFL rules that the league as a whole has to spend up to 95% of the cap in a rolling average and teams individually have to reach 89% of it. But since no individual player makes them a contender, might as well save up. God forbid they push 10 million dollars into a future in which they have basically no commitments on the books.

And they aren't jamming cap space money into their pockets, but by not converting salary into bonuses to create space now while borrowing from future years, they aren't putting as much cash into escrow as they could and, I would argue, should. But this isn't even an argument I want to get into, because next you'll be catatrophizing about the Rams and Saints and how fiscal responsibility built the dynasty or whatever. Just as long as nobody is ever allowed to want them to sign good players at positions of need.

I mean of course you can want them to sign good players at a position of need, no one is saying you or anyone else can't want that. In two years 12-15 million bucks a year for Hopkins might look like a good price, it might look like an overpay (I strongly think it'll be the latter, the I think the wheels are coming off the guy).

I do think that for right or wrong the Pats think Parker's production in 2023 is going to be a lot closer to Hopkins's production than the average fan thinks.

 

[Devizier]

My feelings on Hopkins are that he would have been a nice to have, but let’s be realistic about the risks of an older skill position guy. The Patriots have been burned going this route before and there were plenty of teams with more cap space that had exactly zero interest in signing Hopkins. There’s a risk in any FA signing, the Titans may come out ahead, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

 

[BaseballJones]

Personally, for the money he got, I'd rather the Patriots have signed him. Just as an opposing DC, this is really different:

Hopkins - JuJu - Parker - Bourne

vs

JuJu - Parker - Bourne - Thornton

 

[mcpickl]

Every single team in the league ends every season with minimal cap space. It's literally in the NFL rules that the league as a whole has to spend up to 95% of the cap in a rolling average and teams individually have to reach 89% of it. But since no individual player makes them a contender, might as well save up. God forbid they push 10 million dollars into a future in which they have basically no commitments on the books.

And they aren't jamming cap space money into their pockets, but by not converting salary into bonuses to create space now while borrowing from future years, they aren't putting as much cash into escrow as they could and, I would argue, should. But this isn't even an argument I want to get into, because next you'll be catatrophizing about the Rams and Saints and how fiscal responsibility built the dynasty or whatever. Just as long as nobody is ever allowed to want them to sign good players at positions of need.

This is absolutely false.

The Patriots rolled over 1.1M this year, 27th in the league.

The NFL leader, the Cleveland Browns, rolled over 27.6M in cap space.

Interesting you chose the Rams in there. When they won the Super Bowl in 2021, they were 32nd in the league in cash spending. Dead last. The Patriots were 2nd. Which teams fanbase do you think was happier? The Patriots, who aggressively pushed money from the future into 2021, or the Rams who didn't?

Again, let's say they push up 10M in future spending into this season, is your team that much better? Are you happy then, or are you complaining that they didn't push 20M up? I'm going to guess the latter, because an extra 10M pushed on to this years team likely doesn't move the needle much at all.

The cash/cap thing is a fan, and media, derived boogeyman. It's nothing.

 

[pappymojo]

If the Patriots have cap space this year, can’t they roll that extra money into next year’s salary? I thought there was a a four year period or something?

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Personally, for the money he got, I'd rather the Patriots have signed him. Just as an opposing DC, this is really different:

Hopkins - JuJu - Parker - Bourne

vs

JuJu - Parker - Bourne - Thornton

I would have too, but I think Zolak was talking about a Curran article or something this morning that said if they brought in Hopkins, Bourne would likely have been a cut. I'm not saying it's true or not, it's just media gossip, but I'm 100% OK with them not signing Hopkins for the price if it meant Bourne was gone. In your first scenario, I'm 100% all for Hopkins being here. We'll likely never know and I'd rather Hopkins here, but if it's Hopkins + $$$ - Bourne, I'm pretty much indifferent on it. I think Bourne has a huge amount of potential and was screwed up last year.

 

[mcpickl]

If the Patriots have cap space this year, can’t they roll that extra money into next year’s salary? I thought there was a a four year period or something?

They can and they will at seasons end.

But it won't be a lot because even if they don't use space to extend one or more of Dugger/Onwenu/Uche, or sign a vet RB or something, it'll get mostly eaten up by in season expenses.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I would have too, but I think Zolak was talking about a Curran article or something this morning that said if they brought in Hopkins, Bourne would likely have been a cut. I'm not saying it's true or not, it's just media gossip, but I'm 100% OK with them not signing Hopkins for the price if it meant Bourne was gone. In your first scenario, I'm 100% all for Hopkins being here. We'll likely never know and I'd rather Hopkins here, but if it's Hopkins + $$$ - Bourne, I'm pretty much indifferent on it. I think Bourne has a huge amount of potential and was screwed up last year.

Why Bourne? Hopkins is mostly an outside WR so wouldn’t Parker have been the natural cut with Thornton the other outside WR and JuJu/Bourne working the slot?

 

[mcpickl]

Why Bourne? Hopkins is mostly an outside WR so wouldn’t Parker have been the natural cut with Thornton the other outside WR and JuJu/Bourne working the slot?

Parrker just re-signed with 9M guaranteed.

Bourne has no guaranteed money left in his contract.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Parrker just re-signed with 9M guaranteed.

Bourne has no guaranteed money left in his contract.

That’s right. I forgot they just re-did Parker’s deal.

 

[DJnVa]

Already needs a "personal day".

Titans’ DeAndre Hopkins to take personal leave ‘early’ in training camp (msn.com)

(yes, stuff comes up, but it's funny to me)