Dishing Olynyk

[sezwho]

Don't want to make too much out of the last two games (SSS I know) but unless he is hurt, man was he invisible against two potential playoff opponents in Miami and Milwaukee.

Yes the game is changing but Whiteside and Giannis rendered him essentially unplayable, and useless when he did. Two rebounds combined in two big down the stretch games?

After his 'hot streak' he went 9/2/0 and 7/0/0. Hard not to have Greek Freak envy, but my kingdom for a big that can shoot AND defend. I know they are hard to find but we have had picks and player assets galore for a couple years now.

I fear drafting another pg or wing is just not going to move the needle unless the glass feet of Amir find the fountain of youth or we can clone the 'Good KO' games.

 

[mauf]

I fear drafting another pg or wing is just not going to move the needle unless the glass feet of Amir find the fountain of youth or we can clone the 'Good KO' games.

Even those of us who like KO don't think he's more than the 3rd PF/C in the rotation for a championship-caliber team.

All the chatter about Butler and George at the deadline suggests (to me, anyway) that other than the mercurial Boogie Cousins, there aren't any supremely talented bigs that are expected to become available through free agency or trade anytime soon. Maybe that changes if Danny decides to trade IT4; otherwise, it's a weakness that the C's will likely need to manage around for some time.

 

[sezwho]

I get that its counterintuitive from my post, but I actually like KO too. Anyways, if we aren't able to identify a significant front court improvement for next season, which I'm inclined to agree I there isn't an obvious path too, then we are going to be a solid regular season team who has to hope for a playoff tailwind again. Coaching and tenacious guards are the only strengths of this team. Well, plus Crowder. That Butler/George chatter which never led anywhere also suggests Ainge felt those players would not have made the franchise championship contenders and I agree. I perceive our pg/sg/sf group is currently strong enough to compete with everyone not named GSW, so upgrading would be nice but not worth selling the farm. Barring an ECF run this season I would resign everyone else under 6'6" and trade IT and a first rounder, up to and including Brooklyn's, to significantly upgrade the front court. Hard to know the trade landscape now of course, so apologies for not having specific names.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, but you have no specific names because those players aren't available in trade. Things change but the list of those players is short and the only one who was readily available was traded to NO. I'm not even sure the Celtics need that type of player though. They just need a rim protector, one who can preferably hit a 3 if Marcus Smart is still on the team. How many bigs in the league are better than IT4, nevermind IT4 and the Brooklyn 1st? The only 2 bigs I see being available are Brook Lopez and Andre Drummond. I wouldn't be opposed to either depending on the price tag but neither team has much use for IT4. Blake Griffin might be on the block but he doesn't solve our problems. Not sure Brook does either but he disrupts some shots. We could probably pick up a Tyson Chandler, Greg Monroe or a player along those lines too. Tyson is ancient. Monroe has a nice dpbm but doesn't strike me as much of a defensive player and I'm not sure he's even available.

We probably didn't have much of a shot at him given the Nuggets needs and we didn't have time to develop him, but Nurkic would have been a great fit. He needed far less development time than most people thought and is actually turning into a decent defender and has shown a surprising passing ability. He is a bit prone to turnovers and fouls and has no shot outside of 3 feet which could cause problems in Brad Stevens system but the price was relatively cheap but Denver wanted a center back and we don't have one. Plus his passing would offset some of the range issues. In the 19 games since being traded, he's at 15.0 points, 10.4 boards, 3.3 assists, 1.2 steals, 1.9 blocks in 29.1 minutes played on .514/---/.666 shooting. The 3.1 turnovers a game on a 18.0% TO rate on 25.4% usage isn't that wonderful but given the rest of the game it isn't a deal breaker either.

Also, Nurkic has always rated out well defensively so I wonder why he got the reputation of being a poor defender. The half season he played with Denver this year wasn't so great but still positive. Every season to date his advanced stats suggest he's a good defender but poor offensive player. Even right now in Portland that's the case using BPM.

It's also possible Zizic ends up being the rim protector we need and given his FT shooting, he could potentially add the 3 to his game. This team doesn't need Anthony Davis or even Rudy Gobert, just a big that is more athletic and more of a shot blocking presence than KO and Amir. If only Jordan Mickey were good at basketball.

 

[sezwho]

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, but you have no specific names because those players aren't available in trade.

I get it and knew I was leading with my chin on some level with the post. I also agree those players aren't available in trade now, which is why I couldn't name them. That said, it wouldn't have taken much different to have had Nurkic be an option for example, but our assets didn't align while something may well present during the offseason. Perhaps shooting for the moon with IT4+Brook seems overkill, but I did say up to and including the Brooklyn pick, which would clearly necessitate an elite big.

Bottom line is I see the roster crunch at guard steaming down the rails, and the draft will likely make this worse not better (though its obviously the best kind of worse - if you will). Asset liquidity is at its highest during the offseason, and as I don't see any difference making FA bigs aside from Griffin, something needs to be done via trade whether I can come up with a name right now or not. Perhaps my belief that the championship window is opening, which certainly isn't universal, creates more urgency in my mind.

Your point that the real need is a rim protector, rather than a '5 tool' big, is well taken however and this lowers the bar quite a bit. I like the promise of Zizic, and maybe Ainge has seen enough already to make the call whether he can help next year, but as others have said even including his minutes we need more and (getting back to the thread topic finally )I don't see resigning KO as part of the solution.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Yeah, we are in a position where we need to replace 3 rotational bigs that take up 57 minutes a game if we don't resign Olynyk. So even if they got a starting big who can play 30-35 minutes, they are still going to need at least one more big who can play 15-20, if not 2. It'd be nice if Zizic was the 30 minute player in that equation but I'm guessing at best he's first big off the bench and gets about the same minutes as Amir and Kelly. Bringing Amir back is a possibility but how long will he hold up for?

Yabusele is another option and unlike Zizic, already has the 3 point shot (123-342 .360 in his pro career). He doesn't have the defensive profile of Zizic though and banking on 2 rookie bigs to give you significant minutes is a disaster waiting to happen. But Yabusele is making his Maine Red Claws debut tomorrow so I think it's fair to assume he'll get some burn in Boston next year and I think his most likely role is to replace some of Jerebko's minutes. Zizic would probably assume Amir's role.

That leaves them with Olynyk as the player they need to replace and with no real internal options. Letting him walk makes the solution harder to find.

 

[the moops]

Blake Griffin might be on the block but he doesn't solve our problems.

I think Blake solves about 99% of this teams problems

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I think Blake solves about 99% of this teams problems

I was being hyperbolic but I don't think Griffin is the missing piece or the player you break open the bank for. I'm not sure he's a better option than Jimmy Butler. It is interesting that in 19 games after the all star game, Griffin is 19-57 .333 from 3 after only going 11-36 .305 in his first 34 games. He's been shooting 3 times as many 3 pointers since the all star break. Those 57 3s in those 19 games are more 3's that he shot in any season prior to this one and more than he shot in 14-15 and 15-16 combined. Not surprisingly, he's only averaging 7.2 rebounds in those 19 games.

If the change is real, Griffin is a better fit than I originally thought. A Blake Griffin shooting 33-34% from 3 on 3 attempts a game changes the dynamic.

 

[moly99]

I think Blake solves about 99% of this teams problems

Could you list what you think these problems are?

As I see it Blake is not a center or rim protector, is not really a floor spacer and as a PF he would not work as well with Thomas as Horford does. He does not seem like a good fit with our team needs, the other players on the roster or with our offensive scheme.

He is a good player and an underrated passer and playmaker out of the high post. But we simply don't play that style of basketball. And we have passed on lots of players who fit that syle (see Cousins, Demarcus) who would be a lot easier to acquire than Blake Griffin.

 

[Swedgin]

I'm not saying this to be an asshole, but you have no specific names because those players aren't available in trade. Things change but the list of those players is short and the only one who was readily available was traded to NO. I'm not even sure the Celtics need that type of player though. They just need a rim protector, one who can preferably hit a 3 if Marcus Smart is still on the team. How many bigs in the league are better than IT4, nevermind IT4 and the Brooklyn 1st? The only 2 bigs I see being available are Brook Lopez and Andre Drummond. I wouldn't be opposed to either depending on the price tag but neither team has much use for IT4. Blake Griffin might be on the block but he doesn't solve our problems. Not sure Brook does either but he disrupts some shots. We could probably pick up a Tyson Chandler, Greg Monroe or a player along those lines too. Tyson is ancient. Monroe has a nice dpbm but doesn't strike me as much of a defensive player and I'm not sure he's even available.

One possibility is Favors. If Hayward and Hill return, then keeping Favors is probably prohibitively expensive for the Jazz. That cost combined with fit issues next to Gobert suggests he would be on the market. Of course, the Celts would have to pony up, but his injury history might and fewer teams with cap space would act as a bit of a depressant on the market.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Yeah, we are in a position where we need to replace 3 rotational bigs that take up 57 minutes a game if we don't resign Olynyk. So even if they got a starting big who can play 30-35 minutes, they are still going to need at least one more big who can play 15-20, if not 2. It'd be nice if Zizic was the 30 minute player in that equation but I'm guessing at best he's first big off the bench and gets about the same minutes as Amir and Kelly. Bringing Amir back is a possibility but how long will he hold up for?

Yabusele is another option and unlike Zizic, already has the 3 point shot (123-342 .360 in his pro career). He doesn't have the defensive profile of Zizic though and banking on 2 rookie bigs to give you significant minutes is a disaster waiting to happen. But Yabusele is making his Maine Red Claws debut tomorrow so I think it's fair to assume he'll get some burn in Boston next year and I think his most likely role is to replace some of Jerebko's minutes. Zizic would probably assume Amir's role.

That leaves them with Olynyk as the player they need to replace and with no real internal options. Letting him walk makes the solution harder to find.

Why do we need 3 bigs to replace Olynyk.......why not just one? Amir has been a durable player his entire career but even more so over the last 5 and he has shown to be willing to accept a team-friendly deal (the 1+1 with team option) to give Ainge trade flexibility. I don't see any reason why we'd expect him to break down at 30 after missing just 3 games over 2 years as a Celtic. Zizic will be here and you can find guys like Zeller and Jerebko pretty much everywhere you look around the league. I don't expect a complete overhaul of our frontcourt unless it's a big upgrade.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Why do we need 3 bigs to replace Olynyk.......why not just one? Amir has been a durable player his entire career but even more so over the last 5 and he has shown to be willing to accept a team-friendly deal (the 1+1 with team option) to give Ainge trade flexibility. I don't see any reason why we'd expect him to break down at 30 after missing just 3 games over 2 years as a Celtic. Zizic will be here and you can find guys like Zeller and Jerebko pretty much everywhere you look around the league. I don't expect a complete overhaul of our frontcourt unless it's a big upgrade.

It depends if you bring back Amir. I meant breaking down more in the sense that his minutes have been on the steady decline but if it's one year, that wouldn't matter much. The Celtics could potentially have to replace KO, Amir and Jerebko. Jerebko will be easy to replace but you still have to replace him with someone. And probably a big. I worded that sentence poorly though. We could be in a position, not we are.

 

[Sprowl]

Amir Johnson has shown a lot more spring in his step during the last month than during most of his two years as a Celtic. His foot-and-ankle woes seem to be in remission, and he is both quicker and longer in his jump on shot-blocking opportunities. If he holds up for another two months, he and Horford can give the team some legitimate rim protection.

I wouldn't count on it for another two years though. With 739 regular season games on his odometer, Amir is an old 29.

 

[ALiveH]

I thought Horford and Johnson are OK rim protectors. Jerebko and Olynyk provide basically zero rim protection. What all 4 bigs have in common is all are below average rebounders. Jerebko is a UFA after this year, along with KO and Amir. So, Danny will have some tricky decisions and I agree he is only likely to bring back whoever wants to be back on cheap deals. As far as adding someone, Brad's system requires a big who can at least hit open 3s. If he can provide rebounding and/or rim protection that would be a plus.

 

[sezwho]

As far as adding someone, Brad's system requires a big who can at least hit open 3s. If he can provide rebounding and/or rim protection that would be a plus.

Not that it matters in practice, as he and DA clearly march in lock step, but is this really driven by Brad's system or more the fact that Ainge drafts players whose calling card is relentless tenacity and not shooting? I'm thinking of top draft picks Rondo, Smart, and even though Brown looks very promising it was not a calling card.

I don't watch much college ball and have read conflicting reports of the source of Butler's strengths (ball movement/tenacious D/volume shooting&rebounding/intangibles). Obviously Haywood is a monster, and more Butler players have had success playing abroad than I first thought, but further complicating that analysis is he wouldn't always have first crack at the athletes he wanted and would need to optimize what he had. So, is a KO style big really needed or could the other end of the spectrum (like Noel) be a fine fit if we had Haywood and Brown further develops that J?

 

[smastroyin]

Amir can't play starter minutes. Or maybe he can but Stevens has alluded that the Celtics aren't willing to risk it in the regular season. I wouldn't count on him for more than 20, but even then I'd be open to bringing him back.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Amir can't play starter minutes. Or maybe he can but Stevens has alluded that the Celtics aren't willing to risk it in the regular season. I wouldn't count on him for more than 20, but even then I'd be open to bringing him back.

I would tend to assume that NBA teams aren't going to be breaking down his door trying to offer him huge guaranteed money, so him coming back seems realistic.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Amir Johnson has shown a lot more spring in his step during the last month than during most of his two years as a Celtic. His foot-and-ankle woes seem to be in remission, and he is both quicker and longer in his jump on shot-blocking opportunities. If he holds up for another two months, he and Horford can give the team some legitimate rim protection.

I wouldn't count on it for another two years though. With 739 regular season games on his odometer, Amir is an old 29.

Amir has still only played 17k minutes and avg less than 15 mpg during his first 5 seasons. LeBron is over 40k and putting up triple doubles without breaking a sweat. Todays conditioning, nutrition, and supplementation throws the old "rules" out the window. Amir is the same player today as he was in Toronto from a production standpoint. A limited skilled role player who can matchup well with longer frontcourts. I don't see any of that changing in the next couple years in our system and as I've pointed out his agreement on a 1+1 team option contract gives Ainge the trade flexibility that he has historically craved over the years (Raef, Ratliff, G. Wallace, Amir, Zeller) when building a team to take the next step.

 

[mauf]

Amir can't play starter minutes. Or maybe he can but Stevens has alluded that the Celtics aren't willing to risk it in the regular season. I wouldn't count on him for more than 20, but even then I'd be open to bringing him back.

I would tend to assume that NBA teams aren't going to be breaking down his door trying to offer him huge guaranteed money, so him coming back seems realistic.

Interesting. I had assumed that given his age, Amir would sign with whatever team offered him the most guaranteed money, which I figured would not be Boston. If he's willing to come back on short money, then sure, I'd love to have him around -- he's a useful player who obviously has demonstrated that he can fill a role here and mesh with the C's other players.

I'm not sure how much Amir's status affects KO, though. If you don't retain KO, then even with Amir back you're expecting 20-25 minutes from Zizic as a rookie, which goes to 30-35 if Amir gets hurt, which is hardly a remote possibility. (I think there's no chance Jerebko stays if Amir stays -- he'll get similar money from a team offering a bigger role.)

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Interesting. I had assumed that given his age, Amir would sign with whatever team offered him the most guaranteed money, which I figured would not be Boston. If he's willing to come back on short money, then sure, I'd love to have him around -- he's a useful player who obviously has demonstrated that he can fill a role here and mesh with the C's other players.

I'm not sure how much Amir's status affects KO, though. If you don't retain KO, then even with Amir back you're expecting 20-25 minutes from Zizic as a rookie, which goes to 30-35 if Amir gets hurt, which is hardly a remote possibility. (I think there's no chance Jerebko stays if Amir stays -- he'll get similar money from a team offering a bigger role.)

We have the draft, free agency and the trade season to round out our second unit. There isn't any real concern at this stage in finding replacements for very replaceable role players by training camp.

 

[mauf]

We have the draft, free agency and the trade season to round out our second unit. There isn't any real concern at this stage in finding replacements for very replaceable role players by training camp.

I think you're underestimating the difficulty in finding an Amir-caliber player. I wouldn't call him "very replaceable."

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I think you're underestimating the difficulty in finding an Amir-caliber player. I wouldn't call him "very replaceable."

I dunno, you can throw a rock and hit a role playing PF of comparable ability in this league.

Gorgui Gieng
Kenneth Faried
Al-Farouq Aminu
JaMychal Green
Jon Lauer
Terrance Jones
James Johnson
Patrick Patterson
Willie Reed
Dante Cunningham
Nemanja Bjelica


I went through just over half the teams to find similar players. Roughly half were also signed as FA like Amir was over the past two years. This was why we were able to find an Amir as a FA.......they are always available when needed. On our championship teams we got a couple of these guys in the draft with Big Baby and Powe, and even lured PJ Brown out of retirement. When we needed someone else we signed Rasheed. Miami signed Chris Andersen a few years ago, Cleveland got Bogut this year (even though it didn't work out), JaVale in Golden State, etc. The list goes on and on.....role playing bigs have never been hard to find for playoff teams.

 

[JakeRae]

I dunno, you can throw a rock and hit a role playing PF of comparable ability in this league.

Gorgui Gieng
Kenneth Faried
Al-Farouq Aminu
JaMychal Green
Jon Lauer
Terrance Jones
James Johnson
Patrick Patterson
Willie Reed
Dante Cunningham
Nemanja Bjelica


I went through just over half the teams to find similar players. Roughly half were also signed as FA like Amir was over the past two years. This was why we were able to find an Amir as a FA.......they are always available when needed. On our championship teams we got a couple of these guys in the draft with Big Baby and Powe, and even lured PJ Brown out of retirement. When we needed someone else we signed Rasheed. Miami signed Chris Andersen a few years ago, Cleveland got Bogut this year (even though it didn't work out), JaVale in Golden State, etc. The list goes on and on.....role playing bigs have never been hard to find for playoff teams.

The only player on this list that's actually a comparable quality player to Amir is James Johnson. James hasn't had the consistently good career that Amir has had, but he has been in the same caliber since he broke out four years ago (actually, probably better, if less consistent). Patrick Patterson has flirted with being as good a player as Amir, but hasn't been able to do it with consistency. Most of the guys on this list aren't even within spitting distance of being as good as Amir Johnson.

I'm not sure what criteria you were using to gauge similarity, but your attempt to find similar and easily available talent only serves to highlight that guys like Amir Johnson are quite good and are not easy to come by. He's the sort of player who quietly does a lot of things well and nothing spectacularly, so it's easy to overlook how much he contributes. Why the Celtics were able to sign him, and have been able to retain him, on the team friendly deals he has been on remains a mystery.

 

[ifmanis5]

Kelly needs to show up tonight.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Kelly needs to show up tonight.

And he did not. I cant stand this guy. He was atrocious again.

 

[BigSoxFan]

And he did not. I cant stand this guy. He was atrocious again.

11/4/7 with some key hustle plays. He was making hustle plays in the 2nd half while everyone else was quitting. I'm nowhere near Olynyk's #1 fan but he at least made an impact on offense.

 

[RetractableRoof]

I don't know if it's because he doesn't have the alpha dog projection (I mean who with a man bun could?!? lol), but he plays like he is never going to get over the hump. I always get the idea that he is looking at the basket and it appears to be 6 inches in diameter instead of what it really is. Then he has a game where he just drives to the basket and dunks with enthusiasm and hits a couple of rushed 3s. Last night with the ball he looked to pass it, saw nothing he liked, saw a defender waiting for him to decide, and just smoothly fired off a 3 that was simply beautiful all the way down. THAT Olynyk I enjoy watching, not the one that thinks about his shot and hesitates before firing.

I guess I want a bit more confidence dripping off him and that isn't his game.

 

[sezwho]

After 4 years he is what he is, just not good enough and not improving.

I think this thread gets renamed 'KO for KO'

 

[the moops]

After 4 years he is what he is, just not good enough and not improving.

Not good enough for what?

He is a 20 minute a night backup 4/5 who can hit threes at a decent clip. He is certainly good enough for that role. If he was better, he would be playing 30-35 minutes a night instead.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

not good enough for 4/60.

 

[Koufax]

Not good enough to be taking minutes from Tyler Zeller.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I find it super weird that so many people's gut reaction is to come in and blame this on Olynyk. Horford, a max player, who was signed to do the things Olynyk doesn't, put up 7 points last night. Thomas and Bradley shot a combined 11-30. But the guy who put up 11 and 7 on 50% shooting off the bench takes the blame?

I think that's called "confirmation bias."

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I find it super weird that so many people's gut reaction is to come in and blame this on Olynyk. Horford, a max player, who was signed to do the things Olynyk doesn't, put up 7 points last night. Thomas and Bradley shot a combined 11-30. But the guy who put up 11 and 7 on 50% shooting off the bench takes the blame?

I think that's called "confirmation bias."

We are stuck with Horford. We are not stuck with KO.

 

[sezwho]

not good enough for 4/60.

Yes, exactly. As a deeply discounted player on a rookie contract? Sure he isn't awful. Paying him 10M+ annually in the FA market, no thanks.

For the record, he does frustrate me but I don't really blame him for anything, its literally just Kelly being Kelly: career 20min/9.5pts/4.7rebs and this playoffs 22/9/4. For a guy who seems to have both long and extreme hot/cold stretches his yearly averages are like a freaking metronome even including the rookie season.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I find it super weird that so many people's gut reaction is to come in and blame this on Olynyk. Horford, a max player, who was signed to do the things Olynyk doesn't, put up 7 points last night. Thomas and Bradley shot a combined 11-30. But the guy who put up 11 and 7 on 50% shooting off the bench takes the blame?

I think that's called "confirmation bias."

There is plenty of "blame" to go around. At the end of the day this is a team full of role players, Isaiah Thomas 4th quarter heroics, and the softest frontcourt still playing basketball. I disagree that Horford was signed to do what Olynyk doesn't as their skillset is very similar as high post 5's that can pass and shoot who aren't very good rebounders or very physical.

The though upthread that Amir is difficult to replace was a tough sell then and even tougher now after these two games. Bradley and Crowder lose their individual matchups at both positions. We can use the Isaiah tragedy as a part of the problem however we saw these same players have the same problems last year in the playoffs......why could anyone expect anything different? I was hoping it would happen maybe a round later but the veteran Bulls team has shown to be more of a challenge than many thought. Looking at Point Differential on the season, 2.4 to 0.3, along with Wade returning and Rondo being focused suggests that maybe we should have been more concerned about the Bulls than many were.

When you can point to half of the playoff participants as a "bad matchup" for us the problem isn't any one player or the coach who has minimal impact.......it is the overall personnel. Ainge knew this and knew this team wasn't worth investing any future assets for a marginal upgrade. We are still set up like kings with the two upcoming Nets picks and the Grizzlies pick a few years down the road.

Patience my friends. Next year we'll have an older Jaylen, an older Rozier, Zizic, Yabu, and another high lottery pick. The rebuilding continues!!

 

[Cellar-Door]

TPA has him as by far the best Celtic in this series. I might quibble with the gap, but he's been one of the more effective guys this series.

The guards and the Amir spot are the biggest issues (also Horford playing like garbage, but not much of a way to fix that). Honestly I'd be happy to have Kelly back if they can't get Griffin or Hayward.
The bigger roster issue is...... IT and Bradley, and whether it's really an IT and Bradley issue, or an IT and anyone issue.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

We are stuck with Horford. We are not stuck with KO.

So because he's a pending RFA he was atrocious last night?

My point is just that the anti-Olynyk talk is truly odd. For some reason he's the guy with the highest expectations. He's the one that needs to step up, get over the hump, be more confident, and who is nitpicked to death. The Celtics have gotten solid performance out of him in two playoff games, and for no real reason at all, he's the one who bears the brunt of the complaints here. It doesn't make a ton of sense.

 

[RetractableRoof]

I find it super weird that so many people's gut reaction is to come in and blame this on Olynyk. Horford, a max player, who was signed to do the things Olynyk doesn't, put up 7 points last night. Thomas and Bradley shot a combined 11-30. But the guy who put up 11 and 7 on 50% shooting off the bench takes the blame?

I think that's called "confirmation bias."

Wait, isn't this the KO thread??? Should we not post about him here? Or is this only for praise of KO? I have concerns about Amir, they are in the Amir thread. I'll check the Horford thread for complaints as well.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Wait, isn't this the KO thread??? Should we not post about him here? Or is this only for praise of KO? I have concerns about Amir, they are in the Amir thread. I'll check the Horford thread for complaints as well.

Let me know what you find in that Horford thread.

I've made my point. I think the tenor of the complaints here are sort of ridiculous. Yours, actually, seemed measured and reasonable to me. Others less so.

 

[the moops]

not good enough for 4/60.

That is a completely reasonble opinion. Olynyk is making 3 million this year though.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

What about the Amir Johnson thread?

 

[smastroyin]

It sounds like Olynyk was much better last night. I think he is a victim as well of some bad rotations. The KO plus smalls rotations have looked terrible pretty often since the ASB. That's probably not all on him. Sunday though I really thought he looked very bad on the defensive end, which was my primary complaint. Losing his man, not seeing where the play was going, etc. On offense he's either hitting his jumper or not. Which gives a high variability in his perceived effectiveness.

I wasn't able to watch last night though.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

What about the Amir Johnson thread?

Do you not see any difference in tone between the Amir thread -- which was started by somebody hesitant to make a judgment about a player he really likes -- and this thread?

The first few comments after last night were:

And he did not. I cant stand this guy. He was atrocious again.

and

After 4 years he is what he is, just not good enough and not improving.

I think this thread gets renamed 'KO for KO'

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of reasonable discussion of KO here. But there's also a segment of people here who can't, for whatever reason, discuss him rationally. That's what I find odd.

 

[Kliq]

Considering what your normally get out of the spot that Olynyk is drafted in, I think he has performed as expected. Yeah he isn't going to grab you 12 boards a game but he was never projected to be a great rebounder. He is a solid rotation big that has some good skills (outside shooting, good passer for a 5, strong help defender with good mobility) that has some deficiencies and isn't always consistent. People complaining about not getting Antetoukonmpo irks me; if everyone knew that Giannis was going to be Giannis he would have been taken #1. I'll never get mad about the Celtics passing on a Greek teenager that was an average player in a AAA league in Europe.

This isn't rational; but I honestly think part of the reason people seem to have a remarkable distaste for Olynyk is that he doesn't really look athletic. Let's face it, he is a white guy with long hair and bad facial hair that runs kind of awkwardly and tends to fall down a lot and doesn't always make the quickest decisions with the ball. Even if when you really think about for a guy his size he is a very good athlete, he kind of has that characteristic that makes him an easy target. Like when JD Drew struck out he would get booed extra hard and people would talk about how much he sucked even though a guy that hits .280 with an OPS over .900 is a pretty good player.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Yeah, Kelly seems to get this weird breed on internet hate, like the game he's being criticized for.... he was probably the best player on the floor for Boston. He was pretty efficient offensively, the defense was much better when he was in... BUT he looked kinda awkward, and committed fouls (instead of giving up uncontested shots like our other bigs) so he must have sucked. He's very good for his role, he does a lot of great things for the team on both ends outside just box score numbers, but for some reason people just are willfully blind to it.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Game 2 he was fine. Game 1, not so much. He's inconsistent. After watching KO for 4 years, people don't want to see him for another 4. I get the JD Drew comparison but he is not in the same atmosphere as JD Drew. He's more like Chris Young. He's good in certain situations, not in others.

 

[sezwho]

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of reasonable discussion of KO here. But there's also a segment of people here who can't, for whatever reason, discuss him rationally. That's what I find odd.

"After 4 years he is what he is, just not good enough and not improving. I think this thread gets renamed 'KO for KO'"

For the record, the above quote that you used to identify me as one who can't discuss KO rationally, is one I stand behind. After four years, he has not shown me anything I would pay free agent dollars for. At this point I don't see a long playoff run so I expect he will soon have played his last game as a Celtic. I thought KO for KO was pretty tongue in cheek, but I could see taking it more literally. It wasn't intended that way. I actually like to watch him most of the time and he sees the court well, particularly so for a big man.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Game 2 he was fine. Game 1, not so much. He's inconsistent. After watching KO for 4 years, people don't want to see him for another 4. I get the JD Drew comparison but he is not in the same atmosphere as JD Drew. He's more like Chris Young. He's good in certain situations, not in others.

I thought his game 1 was fine, our best Drtg was with him on the court, he forced a few turnovers, blocked 3 shots, got some offensive boards a few assists, 7 points. That's solid for a bench big.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Do you not see any difference in tone between the Amir thread -- which was started by somebody hesitant to make a judgment about a player he really likes -- and this thread?

The first few comments after last night were:



and



Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of reasonable discussion of KO here. But there's also a segment of people here who can't, for whatever reason, discuss him rationally. That's what I find odd.

Theres also a segment of the population who refuse to acknowledge that to be a stretch big you have to do something, anything really, resembling a big mans responsibilites in the NBA.

He consistently gets pushed around, commits terrible fouls, and despite being open quite a bit on his attempts, is a streaky 3pt shooter. His style of basketball sucks to watch, and i truly hope another team choses to overpay.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Theres also a segment of the population who refuse to acknowledge that to be a stretch big you have to do something, anything really, resembling a big mans responsibilites in the NBA.

He consistently gets pushed around, commits terrible fouls, and despite being open quite a bit on his attempts, is a streaky 3pt shooter. His style of basketball sucks to watch, and i truly hope another team choses to overpay.

Feel free to re-reference my post on the value Olynyk brings from when we had this conversation a month ago.

He does some things well. Others poorly. Your assessment, however, doesn't really hold up.