Do you want LeBron on the Celtics?

[Lose Remerswaal]

I know LeBron James brings out strong emotions among NBA fans, with plenty of "Never LeBrons" and plenty of "GOAT" folks out there. Where do you fall?

Ignore:

Salary cap issues that might require them to release players
They'd have to let someone go to fit him on the 15

Consider only:

How the team would play with him
How he would get along with the team, including the coach

So strictly as a basketball move and how you feel about LeBron James, do you want him on the Celtics?

 

[BigSoxFan]

There are far too many “No” votes

 

[RedOctober3829]

If you’re a Celtics fan and you don’t want the best player in the league on the Celtics I don’t know what’s wrong with you.

 

[Cuzittt]

I'm not sure how one can play magical wonderland and not consider the moves needed to make this a reality.

So, sure, in magical wonderland how do you say no? But, since we live in reality... The answer is far less clear.

 

[amarshal2]

There are far too many “No” votes

Poll didn't allow for nuance. I'm a no, I don't want him. However, if he's going to go to Philly or Indy or GSW to the point it becomes a choice of "join him or lose to him," then I reluctantly prefer him on the Celtics. However if he stays in Cleveland or goes to LA or most other situations that all seems pretty ideal for the Celtics, for the NBA, and for my silly fan emotions.

Said differently, if I stack ranked where I wanted LeBron to go, the Celtics are somewhere in the mid to late 20s.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

I do not envision a scenario wherein the Celtics could acquire LBJ without parting with assets I’d prefer to keep.

But if salary cap isn’t on the table and they could simply put him in Abdel Nadel’s roster spot? Hell yeah, I’d love to add the greatest player of all time, one with a track record of putting winning first. A socially-conscious and serious-minded individual. I don’t see how anyone could say no.

 

[oumbi]

There are far too few “No” votes

 

[Montana Fan]

I'm not sure how one can play magical wonderland and not consider the moves needed to make this a reality.

So, sure, in magical wonderland how do you say no? But, since we live in reality... The answer is far less clear.

Yeah, there's already a pretty good thread going that's a lot more interesting than a yes/no question.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I agree. But this thread is meant to figure out how many folks in general ( I don't care about the names) just dont want a great player on this team, no matter what.

 

[JimD]

If they were somehow able to keep the key younger players, LeBron on the Celtics would be worth it just to see what Brad Stevens would do with him.

 

[grimshaw]

I don't find the super team trend enjoyable, so I'd kind of be a hypocrite welcoming him with open arms.

Basketball being a distant 4th for me, I have enjoyed the incremental improvement and am more of a "root for the player" than the laundry guy anyhow.

It's far more enjoyable to me to build a team by drafting well, trading assets and squeezing the most of your talent.

 

[finnVT]

I'm pretty ambivalent. He obviously would make them leaps and bounds better. But, the best way I can describe my hesitation is that if the C's are going to win, I want it to feel like a Celtics accomplishment, not a Lebron accomplishment. That is, to bring him in and win a title feels like it would do far more for his legacy, than for the Celtics'.

 

[Koufax]

Trying to beat LeBron has been the challenge for the Celtics for the last 10 or so years. I want to see the Celtics keep hitting away at that target until they succeed, which they surely will unless he goes to Golden State. I have nothing against him as a person and acknowledge his greatness as a player, but he's always been the rival, the enemy. Bringing him on board spoils the story. I would have had similar feelings (although less strong) if the Sox had somehow brought on Derek Jeter in the last few years of his career.

I share Grimshaw's distaste for bringing on a mercenary. Getting LeBron would not be the same as bringing on KG, who played his heart out for Minnesota and was traded to the Celtics, where he bled green. LeBron James will never bleed green. My preference is that he remains in Cleveland and the Celtics become a roadblock to his ever getting to the finals again.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

I’d take him, but I think this team when healthy can beat him and I’d rather beat him.

 

[Montana Fan]

I agree. But this thread is meant to figure out how many folks in general ( I don't care about the names) just dont want a great player on this team, no matter what.

Yeah, I'm a little ornery because I want to see what Brad can do with this team.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Yeah, I'm a little ornery because I want to see what Brad can do with this team.

Understood.

I love Koufax's answer, so Grimshaw's as well.

 

[Captaincoop]

I want to root for the Boston Celtics, not the all-encompassing LeBron show. If you win championships with him, it's a LeBron championship , not a Celtics championship. I would personally rather watch this really intriguing team full of guys I enjoy rooting for, even if they ultimately can't climb the mountain.

 

[OnWisc]

I'm not adamant about it, but I'm also in the "no" category. It's for the same reason that I wasn't happy with the Dombrowksi hiring, even before knowing if his inevitable moves would work out. I've already seen a few Red Sox World Series victories, and I've seen a recent Celtics Championship. Perhaps in another decade or two I'll be back in a "just win a Championship" mindset, but at the moment, I'd prefer to see additional Championships won more through team building than via Superstar plug and play. I realize that to some extent we're already guilty of this via the acquisitions of Kyrie, Hayward and Horford, but there's still some semblance of a process to it. I'd rather watch that process continue than see the Celtics devolve into the basketball equivalent of a series of Star Blazers episodes where they're just constantly firing the Wave Motion Gun at everything.

I would, however, be interested to see how LeBron would carry himself around a supremely capable coach and elite teammates these days. It's one thing to occasionally sulk and emote and not get back when you're the only difference between the Finals and the Lottery and everyone knows it, but his role in Boston would be different than it would be anywhere else outside Golden State and maybe Houston. Even if he ends up in LA with Kawhi and George, he's still the one that brought them there and entitled to carry himself as such. If he came to Boston, he'd still be the best player on the club and right up there behind the GOAT, but I think there's a much greater possibility for friction in Boston than there is elsewhere. As a fan who's already tired of the constant overblown narratives in the media, having LeBron here could be exhausting.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Perhaps in another decade or two I'll be back in a "just win a Championship" mindset, but at the moment, I'd prefer to see additional Championships won more through team building than via Superstar plug and play

This should ALWAYS be your mindset. Always, always, always.

You don't get extra points by building your teams through the minor leagues. You don't get extra points for not getting the best player in the world and winning a championship. Your championship isn't tarnished if you go all in one year and crap out the next. A championship is a championship is a championship. You have zero clue when that next championship is coming and you have to always take advantage of that small window and use your advantage to push yourself over the top.

I don't know how old you are, but if you lived and watched sports through the 1990s, you would understand that.

 

[TheoShmeo]

There are far too many “No” votes

It's REALLY annoying when people don't view things exactly the way you do, eh? And damn, when MANY people do that, it's just confounding!

Hey, I totally get the argument FOR LeBron. It's blindingly obvious. He's really good at basketball and is likely to substantially increase the Celtics' chances of winning.

But sports are inherently a combination of logic and emotion. After all, we invest massive amounts of energy and focus on something that doesn't make us richer or better looking, and more broadly doesn't directly affect any aspect of our daily lives. When the Pats win a SB, we still have to go to work, pay attention to our kids and spouses, go to the gym, watch what we eat and shit regularly. Moreover, sports fandom requires us to identify with teams and individuals who ultimately don't care at all about us and often view us with a degree of condescension.

I've never liked LeBron. I think he reveals his true nature from time to time, and often hides it well. I don't like what I see when the curtain gets withdrawn. And critically, he's been a Celtics foe for a long time and has inflicted some painful losses on my team.

My reaction to him may be unfair or even juvenile. I know that opposing him on the Cs flies in the face of my primary focus: that the Cs win championships. Still, I'd rather root for a team made of players I either like or at the least, don't dislike.

And Lose, if I follow your directive and consider this ONLY as a basketball move, and if I don't factor in any of my personal issues with him (which you didn't actually say to ignore), I guess my answer is yes.

Last: If LeBron winds up on the Cs, I will pause for a few seconds, curse, and then get 100% behind him and them. I root for the laundry. I just wouldn't choose for him to wear it.

 

[OnWisc]

This should ALWAYS be your mindset. Always, always, always.

You don't get extra points by building your teams through the minor leagues. You don't get extra points for not getting the best player in the world and winning a championship. Your championship isn't tarnished if you go all in one year and crap out the next. A championship is a championship is a championship. You have zero clue when that next championship is coming and you have to always take advantage of that small window and use your advantage to push yourself over the top.

I don't know how old you are, but if you lived and watched sports through the 1990s, you would understand that.

I disagree. I think- for some- there can be substantial variations in the utility one derives from their chosen team winning a Championship, and the method by which the title is won can drive those variations. You can look at it from an expected value perspective. Does the increase in odds of winning a Championship that comes with a LeBron acquisition more than offset the decrease in utility I would derive from said Championship? At this point I'd say no and roll the dice.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It's REALLY annoying when people don't view things exactly the way you do, eh? And damn, when MANY people do that, it's just confounding!

Hey, I totally get the argument FOR LeBron. It's blindingly obvious. He's really good at basketball and is likely to substantially increase the Celtics' chances of winning.

But sports are inherently a combination of logic and emotion. After all, we invest massive amounts of energy and focus on something that doesn't make us richer or better looking, and more broadly doesn't directly affect any aspect of our daily lives. When the Pats win a SB, we still have to go to work, pay attention to our kids and spouses, go to the gym, watch what we eat and shit regularly. Moreover, sports fandom requires us to identify with teams and individuals who ultimately don't care at all about us and often view us with a degree of condescension.

I've never liked LeBron. I think he reveals his true nature from time to time, and often hides it well. I don't like what I see when the curtain gets withdrawn. And critically, he's been a Celtics foe for a long time and has inflicted some painful losses on my team.

My reaction to him may be unfair or even juvenile. I know that opposing him on the Cs flies in the face of my primary focus: that the Cs win championships. Still, I'd rather root for a team made of players I either like or at the least, don't dislike.

And Lose, if I follow your directive and consider this ONLY as a basketball move, and if I don't factor in any of my personal issues with him (which you didn't actually say to ignore), I guess my answer is yes.

Last: If LeBron winds up on the Cs, I will pause for a few seconds, curse, and then get 100% behind him and them. I root for the laundry. I just wouldn't choose for him to wear it.

I'm actually not annoyed by it so enough with the snark. Not needed. I get the arguments that have been laid out. Most are silly in my opinion but that is sports. We all see things differently.

 

[Hagios]

This should ALWAYS be your mindset. Always, always, always.

You don't get extra points by building your teams through the minor leagues. You don't get extra points for not getting the best player in the world and winning a championship. Your championship isn't tarnished if you go all in one year and crap out the next. A championship is a championship is a championship. You have zero clue when that next championship is coming and you have to always take advantage of that small window and use your advantage to push yourself over the top.

I don't know how old you are, but if you lived and watched sports through the 1990s, you would understand that.

I've flip-flopped on this one. I used to agree with you, but I've come to realize that I enjoy championships more when (A) the team is likable, and (B) they were developed organically through the draft/trades. I'm more of a baseball fan than a basketball fan, but I've been following the Celtics more lately because I like the team more.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Theo: personal feelings are the whole gist of the thread. Do folks dislike LeBron enough to not want him on the Celtics even though he would likely make them favorites to win the title.

 

[Van Everyman]

Only if Arod comes with him.

 

[Big John]

At what cost?

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I disagree. I think- for some- there can be substantial variations in the utility one derives from their chosen team winning a Championship, and the method by which the title is won can drive those variations. You can look at it from an expected value perspective. Does the increase in odds of winning a Championship that comes with a LeBron acquisition more than offset the decrease in utility I would derive from said Championship? At this point I'd say no and roll the dice.

Decrease in utility? Wha?

And you seem like a good guy, but stop with the expected value perspective. I don't know what you do, but I don't think that you play or work for the Boston Celtics. You are a passive observer at best. The value of a championship brought to your city is the same for everyone who follows the team in that you enjoy it for a day, maybe two, perhaps a week but then you go back to your life. The "value" of a championship on your life is less than 1%.

In this exercise, LeBron is being added to the team, nothing is being taken away. I could see if in order to get LeBron, the Celts had to lose Tatum or Brown or Irving or someone you enjoyed watching play. Lose was clear that it wasn't, LeBron was being added and nothing was being taken away. Perhaps you like watching those players play and want to see them grow, then maybe that is a deterrent to adding LeBron. But the odds are stacked that even one of them will be 50% of LeBron James, so you're still getting a good deal in this swap (assuming one had to leave in order for LeBron to come).

I've flip-flopped on this one. I used to agree with you, but I've come to realize that I enjoy championships more when (A) the team is likable, and (B) they were developed organically through the draft/trades. I'm more of a baseball fan than a basketball fan, but I've been following the Celtics more lately because I like the team more.

To answer your first point, the Sox, Bruins, Pats and the Celts have had 10 championship teams since 2001, I can't think of one that I haven't liked or wished that they didn't win their championship. I'm not saying that to be glib, but I'm not sure if any championship team in any city was disliked.

Did you not enjoy the 2013 World Series Champion Red Sox? How about the 2004 Red Sox? Because that last team was probably the best sports experience that I've ever had and Manny, Damon, Mueller, Cabrera, Pokey, Millar, Varitek, Ortiz, Pedro, Schilling, Wakefield, Foulke, Embree, Timlin, Kapler, Reese, Mirabelli, Lowe, Arroyo, etc. were not developed by the Red Sox (you can argue that Schilling was, I suppose). Same thing with a majority of the 2002 Pats and a big chunk of the 2007 Celts.

 

[tims4wins]

To me it's not even about personal feelings, or feeling that a title would be more "LeBron's" than the Celtics. It is the fact that every time he has left somewhere he leaves that team in tatters, and that will happen again in Cleveland. Yes it is a SSS but these Celts are built to be very good for a long time, not just the 2-3 years that LeBron has as being the best player on the planet.

That, and there is so much drama that follows Lebron teams that it seems to be really draining on the entire organization.

 

[djbayko]

Theo: personal feelings are the whole gist of the thread. Do folks dislike LeBron enough to not want him on the Celtics even though he would likely make them favorites to win the title.

I know where Theo is coming from because your post was a bit confusing. I mean, I totally got it, but this part sounded like you wanted basketball reasons only until you qualified it at the very end.

Consider only:

How the team would play with him
How he would get along with the team, including the coach

So strictly as a basketball move and how you feel about LeBron James, do you want him on the Celtics?

I don’t need to state my case at length again. If solely based on on-court play, you obviously want him, but I don’t really want him. That said, if he somehow comes to the Celtics, my feelings will likely change real quick because watching my team destroy the league in a GSW way would be it’s own kind of fun.

 

[bankshot1]

I'm curious about how LeBron would blend with the Celtics absent KI. But I rather beat LeBron as a Laker or 76er, or Cav, than have him take over the team. And if the Celts lose to him, I'll be pissed, just like I was when the Celts lost to Wilt and 76ers in '67 or when the Celts finally lost to the Kareem and the Lakers in '85. But I'll get over it.

However, if Ainge fashions a LeBron deal, I'll root for them.

As posted when this topic came up a few weeks ago

All things being equal, I'd rather beat LeBron than root for him as a Celtic.

But I would.

I like where Ainge has the Celts going as is.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

I suppose you could make the case that having LBJ on the Celtics would slow Tatum's and Jaylen's growth.

Me, I think having him around the club and in practice and getting everybody rings would be more good than bad on that front. Plus he can hook them up for roles in Space Jam 2.

 

[snowmanny]

I enjoy watching James play, a lot, even though I'm almost always rooting against him and there are a couple of aspects of his game that I complain about.. I also think he's very smart and I agree with a lot of what he says, but he irks me here and there and when he does it is hard for me to shut up about it. I'm largely in the Koufax beating him will be fun camp but if he came I'd probably enjoy the look on Magic Johnson's face, LondonSox explaining why acquiring him was a really bad move, and all the winning.

 

[snowmanny]

I'm curious about how LeBron would blend with the Celtics absent KI. But I rather beat LeBron as a Laker or 76er, or Cav, than have him take over the team. And if the Celts lose to him, I'll be pissed, just like I was when the Celts lost to Wilt and 76ers in '67 or when the Celts finally lost to the Kareem and the Lakers in '85. But I'll get over it.

Took about twelve months to (mostly, it's never complete) get over those losses.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I voted no.
I think it's possible to understand and appreciate his greatness as a basketball player but also absolutely hate the guy. I can't stand the theatrics, the all consuming media coverage, the different set of rules he plays by, etc...

Yes I'd love it if the best player in the league played for the Celtics but I just don't want to root for the guy and I think watching LeBron lose is one of the funniest things you can watch right now in sports. I don't want to lose that.

 

[bankshot1]

Took about twelve months to (mostly, it's never complete) get over those losses.

What doesn't kill you...

 

[bakahump]

I said no because I worried how his cult of personality would affect the remaining teammates (which i think was still in scope for consideration) and specifically how it might turn off Stevens and result in him leaving.
Sure if we had a 21 yo Lebron I would be more inclined to not worry about Stevens staying or going. But at 34 I dont think the 3-4 years of superstar and 1-2 years of BPitW are worth losing Stevens who (hopefully) could stay for a decade+. Mix in that with Stevens and without Lebron we are still 1 of 4 teams (?) that have a true championship shot it was not crazy (to me) to pass on Lebron.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

The team as is + Lebron, yes.

 

[Beomoose]

"No" because I'd rather beat him, with this team or this team slightly tweaked, to prove that we can do it. But if he ends up wearing green, I'm not gonna lie: I'll be smiling when he's wrecking the opposition.

 

[pokey_reese]

I voted no, despite acknowledging him as the best player and not particularly disliking him. And if the Current Celtics team were bad, and this was a fast way to go from a sub-.500 team to a playoff berth, I might feel differently. But after years of competing against LeBron teams, I want to beat him more than I want to join him, and I mean that in a respectfully competitive way. I want the Celts to win their next championship by going through LeBron, and GSW, ideally. Of course he adds a few wins to the roster, but I think we can get them another way. There are only so many minutes to go around, I want them to go to the people on the roster now.

 

[Jimbodandy]

This thread shouldn't annoy me this much, but it does.

If Lebron were a domestic abuser, known steroid cheat, or hunted rhinos, I could understand why so many would rather lessen the chances at a championship than bring him in.

These poll results so far suck.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

You "no" voters are nuts. Is Lebron a pain in the ass? Sure. Do I hate him? Absolutely. But under these circumstances you put him and Stevens together and you go to battle against GS in the finals for the next 5 years.

 

[dbn]

I voted "no" for all the reasons the other "no" voters have already said. You "yes" voters probably root for the Yankees and Manchester United.

 

[lovegtm]

I don't think there's a huge contradiction between not wanting LeBron and being OK with Kyrie/Hayward/Horford. There's an aesthetic difference to convincing players you have a good environment for them and becoming the team anointed as a championship favorite by LeBron. KG felt different because he was joining a team that didn't have much going already, and he hadn't even made a finals in his career to that point.

I'd probably lean towards "yes, please, come here LeBron", but it's not a slam dunk in terms of aesthetics, even if it's obviously one in terms of increasing the chance of winning.

This whole debate is indicative of how good the Celtics' situation is: if the team were further from a championship, I think almost everyone here would be an automatic "yes."

 

[Jimbodandy]

I voted "no" for all the reasons the other "no" voters have already said. You "yes" voters probably root for the Yankees and Manchester United.

This particular yes voter was 35 when the Sox won their first World Series since New Mexico became a state and in my 30s for the first Pats Super Bowl.

Championships are gold. Having the best player on earth helps get them.

 

[Manzivino]

I don’t hate Lebron, but I hate watching Lebron. I hate the way he’s covered by the media, I hate the way he plays by a different set of rules than everyone else, I hate his theatrics in the court. And if he joined the Celtics I would buy a 23 jersey so fast my hypocrisy would spin. Banners fly forever.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

How many of you voting against James also didn't want Durant?

 

[sezwho]

How many of you voting against James also didn't want Durant?

I voted no and did want Durant. I want to watch great basketball and don't want to watch Lebronball even if he is a singular talent. Durant (in my world at least) would have played within the context of Steven's system and the Celtic's personnel framework. I don't think Lebron would do either.

To be transparent, if I didn't think the Cs were capable of winning a Championship with their existing roster I might vote differently.

Run it back, this time healthy.

Edit...also what @Manzivino said

 

[joe dokes]

I voted no and did want Durant. I want to watch great basketball and don't want to watch Lebronball even if he is a singular talent. Durant (in my world at least) would have played within the context of Steven's system and the Celtic's personnel framework. I don't think Lebron would do either.

To be transparent, if I didn't think the Cs were capable of winning a Championship with their existing roster I might vote differently.

Run it back, this time healthy.

Edit...also what @Manzivino said

I think exactly the opposite of Lebron. I think that like Wilt, he can Zelig his game to almost anything. And (for better or worse) he's incredibly concerned about his image. What better image-burnisher than being the guy who "sacrificed his personal highlight reel for the good of the team and the coach he respects."?

 

[TheoShmeo]

I'm actually not annoyed by it so enough with the snark. Not needed. I get the arguments that have been laid out. Most are silly in my opinion but that is sports. We all see things differently.

Fair enough about the snark. I’m not usually a purveyor of same. I was reacting to the repeated posts (in this thread and elsewhere ) where you, like others, express such shock that some could view this differently than you. But no need to belabor, all good.

And Lose, if it’s just on personality grounds, I want no part of LeBron. Ever.

 

[benhogan]

I'd rather beat LeBron, then win with him.

Decrease in utility? Wha?

And you seem like a good guy, but stop with the expected value perspective. I don't know what you do, but I don't think that you play or work for the Boston Celtics. You are a passive observer at best. The value of a championship brought to your city is the same for everyone who follows the team in that you enjoy it for a day, maybe two, perhaps a week but then you go back to your life. The "value" of a championship on your life is less than 1%

Not all championship teams are created equal, and I'm glad ARod wasn't a part of this.