Does MLB Have an Umpire Problem?

Boggs26

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terrible ejection of Rendon today. he didnt even say anything!
Wouldn't it be great if the league did anything about "all about me" umps? But alas, absolutely nothing will happen and if anyone in the Nats dates to not how terrible that election was, they'll get themselves fined...
 

sean1562

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in a game that ended 3-2 in the Mets favor, ejecting the star 3b in the third inning could have made a serious impact. just ridiculous
 

Boggs26

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Which would be fine if, you know, that 3rd baseman had done ANYTHING to get ejected... That was one of the least deserve ejections I've ever seen. (No, I'm not a Nationals fan either)
 

AB in DC

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Very fair. I mean, disrespect for an umpire? That's the worst sin imaginable. I'm thinking a 75 game suspension should do the trick.
 

TheYaz67

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I would be nice of Joe to perhaps acknowledge that Rendon had a right to be frustrated - according to pitchfx that was not close to being a strike....

That is too quick a trigger, for a guy that does not say anything nor even look back at the ump, in the 3rd inning of a game.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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What's absurd to me is that the ump seems to think he knows intent. Sure, Rendon is likely mad at him - but couldn't he be upset at himself, for missing taking a strike? How's the ump know what it's about if the guy doesn't turn around and say anything to him?
 
Who exactly are the fans that feel that the human element of umpiring is crucial for the enjoyment of the game? I can only speak for myself, but situations ranging from bad calls to absurdities like what happened today never improve the experience. If the Sox benefit from a blown call, it cheapens the victory. When bad calls go against them, it's tremendously frustrating. We should be automating as many of these calls as possible, and I think personnel should only be ejected under extreme circumstances (situations where there is a risk of physical harm or physical harm has occurred or situations where personnel are behaving in a way that is preventing the game from continuing after reasonable requests to stop the behavior have been made). If personnel acts in an unsportsmanlike manner (which is arguably the case in this situation), it should be assessed after the game and guilty parties should be fined a predetermined percent of their salary or suspended for a duration commensurate with the severity of the act and the presence of prior violations.

The top priorities for the league should be to get the call right and keep the gaming moving with as little intervention as possible. Ejections like this one run completely counter to each and every one of these priorities. I suppose they don't really run counter to getting the call right, but if umpires are spending any of their mental energy assessing whether players are being sufficiently respectful toward them then it's energy that's going to waste. Ejections slow the game down except in cases where the objection is specifically because personnel is actively impeding the continuation of the game, and rather than a minimally invasive intervention this is a maximally invasive one.
 

dhappy42

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Foster should be suspended for one game without pay for that ridiculous and unnecessary ejection. West should be suspended two games for concocting such a stupid explanation and for being Joe West
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Marty Foster is pretty consistently horrible so I'm not surprised. I'm not sure if MLB has a widespread umpire problem so much as MLB needs to be better at dismissing their worst umpires.

 

joe dokes

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Put it through the Joe to English translator and it's a pretty clear "Marty fucked up, but you and I know I can't say that."
 

Lowrielicious

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I would be nice of Joe to perhaps acknowledge that Rendon had a right to be frustrated - according to pitchfx that was not close to being a strike....

That is too quick a trigger, for a guy that does not say anything nor even look back at the ump, in the 3rd inning of a game.
I suspect it was a quick trigger because he immediately knew he blew it, so he knew the bat toss was a sign of frustration at the call (a.k.a “disrespect” , whatever the fuck that means) not the hitter frustrated at himself.
He blew it, he knew he blew it, he knew the hitter knew, so he knew the hitter was pissed at the call.
 

sean1562

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I dont know if this is really Red Sox board appropriate, but I feel like this is a more level headed critique of the umpires that you will see from most players and commentators. Interesting to see if he gets fined for this, and what the justification for it would be. Rendon is a class act



edit: at the end of the day, there really should be more accountability when it comes to ejections etc. It really needs to be an aegregious offense to warrant it, or we are venturing into an ungovernable "unwritten rulebook" that the umpires can sight whenever they feel like going on an ego trip. these things have real game implications. What if the mets are better than everyone thinks they will be, and the NL East comes down to the final series? Losing Rendon in the third is like losing Betts in the third, it can have a huge impact on the final score
 
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Marbleheader

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He's going to get suspended for that, I would imagine. It may have been hard for the ump in the moment to know what was happening since he was trying to separate the two.
 

savage362

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Umpires still get graded and receive game-by-game or at least first half/second half updates right? I don't think it's unfair by any stretch to "demote" the bottom x% of umpires to AAA and promote the top X% of AAA umpires. We just need a consistent grading method. Not knowing what all the current system entails, I would start with:

1. Balls vs strike incorrect calls. Yes, maybe 5 incorrect calls out of 250 pitches seems small, but if others are only making 2 incorrect calls, those at 5 should be expected to be better.

2. Overturned calls. If a team challenges your call and it's overturned, you get dinged. It may be a bang-bang play, but you're paid to get it right.

3. Game Management. I'd put ejections and other things that delay the game in this category. Not sure how you quantify these things.
 

YTF

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Rendon clearly wasn't thrilled with the call, but as far as bat tosses go that was pretty tame. I mean take another look at the replay and see where the bat is laying, it's still in the batter's box. Another thing, it's not unheard of when a batter strikes out for the third out to drop or toss the bat not far from the home plate area as well as his helmet and gloves to be retrieved by the bat boy while he heads to his defensive position in the field.
 

sean1562

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wtf?? post game interview:


will dyson get fined for those comments? ridiculous

edit: are these vids loading for anyone? i pulled them from reddit which is where i saw the call
 
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sean1562

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the call is ridiculous. Dyson has every right to say everything he said in that interview
 

RetractableRoof

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Two calls were ridiculous, initially that the ball struck the bat, second if the base umpires said he offered at the ball while getting out of the way.
 

LeftyTG

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Two calls were ridiculous, initially that the ball struck the bat, second if the base umpires said he offered at the ball while getting out of the way.
The base umpire saying he swung is what I find absolutely incomprehensible. The plate ump made a bad call, but he got drilled by the ball and I can at least wrap my mind about the fact that his brain heard the ball hit his gear and made a faulty connection that the sound was the bat hitting the ball. For the base umpire, upon consultation, to say the batter swung is just jaw dropping. If you weren't paying attention, don't offer an opinion. If you don't remember, don't offer an opinion. There is simply no way the ump was watching the play, paying attention, and still think the batter swung. As in, literally, it is outside the bounds of what an observant human being acting in good faith could conclude happened on that pitch.
 

dhappy42

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There are a few ambiguous rules in the MLB rulebook and some that are interpreted more by tradition than by the letter. The swing rule is one of them. By the book, all check swings are not swinging strikes because, by definition, a batter checking his swing is not trying to hit the ball. An exception is when a batter intentionally tries to check-swing foul off a pitch or attempts a check-swing bunt.

The league should either enforce the rule as written or rewrite it in a way that makes it clear what is and isn’t a swing.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Not the momentous bad call, but one of the worst - 1000% wrong.

Seriously, the need to have a 5th ump, either on site or in NY, watching the game who can contact the crew chief and tell them when they've blown the call and immediately reverse it, without going through the current replay process. The fans can see in about five seconds what the call should be. They can fix this. And they can certainly afford to pay one more ump.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I'm much more confused by how he struck out on a 2-0 pitch. Like, he walked back to the dugout after taking his first strike and nobody noticed?
 

joyofsox

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Is it time for a ball-strikes robo-ump?
It is many years past the time. ... Incorrect ball/strike calls impact a game far more than line drives down the lines or tags on the bases or plays at first. At this point, you'd have to say that Manfred finds it completely acceptable to have umpires influence the outcome of numerous games whether through incompetence or personal biases. The players' union has been distressingly quiet about this matter, too.
 

Kun Aguero

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I fully believe a player should never show up an umpire, no matter what. You can disagree with calls and question him. That's fine. But don't try to embarrass the guy either. That being said, the umps should also give the players the same amount of respect they demand. An ump should never show up a player either. A player does it, he gets ejected and sometimes fined and suspended. Lets have the umps be subject to the same standards. Fine and suspend them when they are clearly the aggressor in a situation. They can do whatever they want without fear of retribution right now. That needs to change. Fast. And I am all for using whatever technology is at their disposal to make sure the calls are the right ones. Nobody likes to lose (or win) a game due to a horrendous call or non-call. People should be discussing the managers decisions, players performances, etc. after a game. NOT discussing umpiring.

Using electronics also doesn't remove the "human element" from the game at all. That's nonsense. The players are, and always will be, the "human element."
 

Dewey'sCannon

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WRT the robo ball/strike calls, I think there's an middle gound interim step that can be taken - equip their ball/strike counters with a mechanism so that they vibrate when the ball is inside the electronic strike zone. That way, the ump has additional info to aid them in making the call. I'd think that they could do this so that the info is transmitted virtually instantaneously, but on the close ones where the ump maybe could use a little help I'd be willing to wait another half second or a second if that helps them get more of these right.
 

timlinin8th

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WRT the robo ball/strike calls, I think there's an middle gound interim step that can be taken - equip their ball/strike counters with a mechanism so that they vibrate when the ball is inside the electronic strike zone.
The middle ground is allow the robo-ump to cover the horizontal axis of the plate (in other words, the part of the strike zone that doesn’t change on a player to player basis). The ump behind the plate gets to use his judgment on the vertical high/low above the letters below the knees stuff.

Yeah, its only 50% more accurate but I’ll take that over nothing.
 

Reverend

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It is many years past the time. ... Incorrect ball/strike calls impact a game far more than line drives down the lines or tags on the bases or plays at first. At this point, you'd have to say that Manfred finds it completely acceptable to have umpires influence the outcome of numerous games whether through incompetence or personal biases. The players' union has been distressingly quiet about this matter, too.
I'm not sure I would spend much time waiting for the players' union to request that all the umpires lose their jobs, but there could be some specifics here I don't understand.
 

teddywingman

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One thing is certain after watching last night's game; the umpires have a CB Bucknor problem. We've known this for years, but last night was a harsh reminder.