The Curious Adventures of Dwayne Allen

tims4wins

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Cap hit should only be $6M or less each year, I think. Pretty sure he is a good two-way TE - good blocker, good pass catcher. Depending on what they gave up... I like it.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I think we have always had him on the "white hat" list.

"They could have played us with soap and beaten us."
 

Stitch01

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Less than that I think. 5/5/7 next three years from what I can see. Probably about half the cost of Bennett. PFF has hated him historically, but seems like viable middle class Gronk insurance. Beat out by Jack Doyle in Indy. Seems to get a lot of mild injuries, misses a game or two a year.

Fits in nice as a red zone option.
 

johnmd20

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Less than that I think. 5/5/7 next three years from what I can see. Probably about half the cost of Bennett. PFF has hated him historically, but seems like viable middle class Gronk insurance.
It's so depressing that Gronk, the best TE of all time, is so unreliable, the Pats have no choice but to get an insurance TE. What could have been. . . .
 

tims4wins

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Cap numbers of $5.9 in 2017, $6.0 in 2018, and $8.4 in 2019. Not sure how the roster bonuses are calculated but I'm pretty sure the Patriots are on the hook for those. If not, then those cap hits are reduced by $2.5 in '17 and $500k in '18 and '19.
those include the signing bonus. So reduce by $1M each year for sure.
 

Stitch01

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It's so depressing that Gronk, the best TE of all time, is so unreliable, the Pats have no choice but to get an insurance TE. What could have been. . . .
I wish Gronk played more games, but Allen still provides value if Gronk is healthy, so its not all that. I also meant insurance against both injury and the Gronk contract issue that's 12 months away.
 

Jungleland

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Yeah, in a vacuum I don't find much to dislike about this but I'm very curious how this affects the calculus on Gronk's long term tenure in New England as well as whether it means tight end will go ignored in the draft now.
 

scottyno

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It's so depressing that Gronk, the best TE of all time, is so unreliable, the Pats have no choice but to get an insurance TE. What could have been. . . .
Why does he have to be insurance? BB has shown with easy it is to create mismatches all over the field when you have 2 good or better tight ends
 

Red Averages

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If we're going to be using 2 TEs, why is BB supposedly targeting Cooks/Woods? We can't play 4 WR, 2 TE and a RB. Very interesting to see how this all evolves.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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those include the signing bonus. So reduce by $1M each year for sure.
Right -- $4.937m this year, becomes fully guaranteed next week.

After that, cutting or trading him would have negligible cap consequences. If he plays under his contract, it's $5m next year and $7.4m in 2019. And cap consequences after this year are basically pay as you go.
 

johnmd20

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Why does he have to be insurance? BB has shown with easy it is to create mismatches all over the field when you have 2 good or better tight ends
In a perfect world, it wouldn't be insurance. But it's safe to say Gronk is going to miss time next year and it'll probably be significant time. The dude is broken. Bennett was humongous this year for that very reason. Allen will fill that role in 2017.
 

Stitch01

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If we're going to be using 2 TEs, why is BB supposedly targeting Cooks/Woods? We can't play 4 WR, 2 TE and a RB. Very interesting to see how this all evolves.

Cant play them at the same time, but offense would be close to matchup proof with everyone healthy and have room to take a skill position injury or two while remaining highly effective.
 

5dice

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If we're going to be using 2 TEs, why is BB supposedly targeting Cooks/Woods? We can't play 4 WR, 2 TE and a RB. Very interesting to see how this all evolves.
I see your point, but even if they use more WR heavy packages, Gronk backup plan is always a thing and given how important TE is to this team, its a high quality backup that also helps in run block.
 

Stitch01

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In a perfect world, it wouldn't be insurance. But it's safe to say Gronk is going to miss time next year and it'll probably be significant time. The dude is broken. Bennett was humongous this year for that very reason. Allen will fill that role in 2017.
Seems a little bit pessimistic. Gronk has been healthy 2 out of the last 3 seasons and played 80% of games through his career. Obviously the back is a concern and I wouldnt pencil in Gronk for 16 games, but he hasn't been Bob Sanders.
 

johnmd20

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Seems a little bit pessimistic. Gronk has been healthy 2 out of the last 3 seasons and played 80% of games through his career. Obviously the back is a concern and I wouldnt pencil in Gronk for 16 games, but he hasn't been Bob Sanders.
In the last 5 seasons, he's started 11, 6, 10, 15, and 6 games. He missed the playoffs in 2012 and 2013 and 2016. He's approximately 50 surgeries deep, as well.

You can't pretend that Gronk is a guarantee to even start 10 games and be healthy for the playoffs next year.
 

E5 Yaz

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Stealing good TEs from crappy organizations is the new market inefficiency.
The guy was beaten out by Jack Doyle. Now, it's quite possible he becomes the player many thought he would be; but there are reasons he was expendable
 

Mooch

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Allen is a pretty good blocker in the running game. Good fit for the Pats system.
 

SMU_Sox

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This is also a draft stocked with TE talent. Vet FA + Gronk + draft a guy and you have a good situation heading into 2017 regular season, I think.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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This is just more versatility. You can line up heavy, with James White as the RB, make them put a run stopping D on the field and then motion to 5 wide with Allen, Gronk, White, Jules, and Hogan/Mitchell. This is closer to the Hernandez/Gronk combo than the Bennett/Gronk version.
 

foulkehampshire

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Dwane Allen is good. He doesn't have the freakish athleticism that Marty & Gronk have, but he has great hands and can run routes. Tremendous blocker. Big enough target to create mismatches in the RZ.

I think he has more than he's been able to statistically show as an offensive weapon. Maybe he never meshed well with Luck?
 

RedOctober3829

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The guy was beaten out by Jack Doyle. Now, it's quite possible he becomes the player many thought he would be; but there are reasons he was expendable
Doyle had a good year but Allen is more athletic, a good blocker, and has good hands. Not sure why he never materalized as a big time TE in Indy. A knock on him is he's constantly dinged up.
 

Stitch01

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In the last 5 seasons, he's started 11, 6, 10, 15, and 6 games. He missed the playoffs in 2012 and 2013 and 2016. He's approximately 50 surgeries deep, as well.

You can't pretend that Gronk is a guarantee to even start 10 games and be healthy for the playoffs next year.
8,15, 15, 7, 11 are the correct number for games played per NFL.com and 5 years cuts off two seasons where Gronk played 16 games (Id discount them too, but they did happen).

No I wouldnt guarantee that he will play 10 games and be healthy for the playoffs. Yes, the back surgeries are obviously a concern. "Broken" seems overstated. 2014: 15 games 82/1124/12 2015: 15 games 72/1176/11 and he's only 27.
 

johnmd20

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8,15, 15, 7, 11 are the correct number for games played per NFL.com and 5 years cuts off two seasons where Gronk played 16 games (Id discount them too, but they did happen).

No I wouldnt guarantee that he will play 10 games and be healthy for the playoffs. Yes, the back surgeries are obviously a concern. "Broken" seems overstated. 2014: 15 games 82/1124/12 2015: 15 games 72/1176/11 and he's only 27.
Games started. Not played. My numbers are accurate.
 

johnmd20

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8,15, 15, 7, 11 are the correct number for games played per NFL.com and 5 years cuts off two seasons where Gronk played 16 games (Id discount them too, but they did happen).

No I wouldnt guarantee that he will play 10 games and be healthy for the playoffs. Yes, the back surgeries are obviously a concern. "Broken" seems overstated. 2014: 15 games 82/1124/12 2015: 15 games 72/1176/11 and he's only 27.
Honestly, I want to believe, but expecting Gronk to turn into 2014 Gronk is like expecting Tiger Woods to turn into 2013 Tiger. Once these things cross a threshold when it comes to surgeries, the players are never the same.

I'm a colossal Gronk fan but it appears that he's broken and it he comes back to what he was, I'll be surprised. But he's young enough where it is possible. I WILL BELIEVE.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Hard not to like this move. They have cap space, and he only costs $5m this year. He has good skills, so if he's the second tight end, he plays a good complimentary role to Gronk. He's a vet, so if you need him to move up to be your TE1 you have some confidence he can contribute. If you want to move on next year, there is no cap consequence to doing so. If he succeeds, you have him under control for decent money.

And the pick they'll get back for Bennett is likely to be higher than the pick it sounds like they are giving the Colts. Hard to find a piece of the puzzle that fits better.

This is also a draft stocked with TE talent. Vet FA + Gronk + draft a guy and you have a good situation heading into 2017 regular season, I think.
They tendered Lengel, so that's another $1.4m or so already committed to the tight end position, I think. My guess is they are done with TE.
 

Stitch01

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Games started. Not played. My numbers are accurate.
OK. Not sure why I care if Gronk started only 10 games in 2014 though. He played 15 games, the playoffs, and went for 1100+ yards. Games started doesnt seem to be saying very much about that season.

I think a Tiger Woods comp is overstated too. Yeah, Gronk could be washed up and broken, but its still a pretty small chance. He's been productive every time he's been on the field.
 

E5 Yaz

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So, that takes the Pats out of the fourth round completely, right?