Eli Manning and other marginal HOF candidates

[streeter88]

No need to waste time with that. If you really want to get your schadenfreude on, just stroll over to any one of the Giants' fan boards and you will see a full-on meltdown in progress.

Simmons point #18 above about Giants fans was spot on. The idea that Eli is being benched because, well, he's just not worth anything close to $22M/yr and the Giants need to start planning for the future just doesn't compute for them.

Wow. That was absolutely delicious - thanks for the link.

Here is a good quote from BigBlue Interactive, and it captures likely Mara thinking as well as any point I read over there:

"There is no good way to push out a legend. Look at what happened in SF when Montana was moved to KC. Or Favre to the Jets and then to the Vikings. Hell, even Eli's brother got the shaft in Indy when they released him to make way for Luck. That said, there were probably better ways to handle it.

Ultimately, McAdoo is just further digging his own grave with his comments and it plays to the game Mara will be playing. At the end of the day, the Giants will pick in the top 3 and will take a QB. If you bring in a new coach, you don't want that coach to have to deal with the problem of pushing out Eli for the new QB. That's a tough start. Let McAdoo take the hit. Like a pitcher in a blowout game, he's gonna suck up his ERA getting lit up and take one for the team. In this case, McAdoo is going to be a PR nightmare, and it appears that he sucks at working the press and fans anyway, so screw it.

Everything stinks about this, there is no nice way of doing this. All that is left is to fire McAdoo and Reese after the season and look to trade Eli and let a new coach and new QB begin a new era of Giants football."
​

And here is a more representative one:

"This is my take too. Sort of. I think Mara figures fuck it, mcadoo "deserves" the right to make a change at qb even if he's lost and at the very worst, Geno plays worse and nothing saves this offense anyway. If Geno actually out plays Eli... I can't even process that.

I want to hibernate. This season is fucking gross. Make it go away. Please.

Why does it have to be Geno fucking smith??? Why him??? Why couldn't they just start giving Webb reps the last few weeks and start him???? Why??? Is it so outlandish to give Webb reps in practice after being red shirted all fucking season???? Ok fine he came from a spread offense... for fucks sake coach him up already!!!! No... not our team. Ben feels Geno smith is the right man for this job. He will save this offense.

My god I can't believe how crazy this is. Handley was better. A lot better!!!!"
​

The football gods are sometimes hilariously quixotic. And to think that many predicted the Giants to be a playoff team / juggernaut in the preseason...

Edit: And I missed the "legend" reference at the top too. Comparing Eli to Montana, Favre, or Peyton is just a bit rich.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Amazingly, Eli has only played in 12 career playoff games.

Brady has played in 34 playoff games despite his teams earning first round byes in 11 of 14 seasons in which they've made the postseason.

 

[Reverend]

No need to waste time with that. If you really want to get your schadenfreude on, just stroll over to any one of the Giants' fan boards and you will see a full-on meltdown in progress.

Simmons point #18 above about Giants fans was spot on. The idea that Eli is being benched because, well, he's just not worth anything close to $22M/yr and the Giants need to start planning for the future just doesn't compute for them.

Beware the Ghost of Christmas Future.

 

[tims4wins]

Eli has won a playoff game in 2 seasons in his entire career

 

[Remagellan]

George Allen is in the HoF. He was 2-7 in the playoffs. The only two playoff games he won were the two on the way to SB VII, which he lost. Eli’s rings matter more than his playoff record in those other years.

I laugh at the suggestion that Palmer might pass Eli in some of the passing categories in the coming years. It’s more likely that Eli is quarterbacking the Cardinals next year than Palmer is. QBs who have problems staying healthy don’t get better at that when they get older.

 

[NYCSox]

Eli has won a playoff game in 2 seasons in his entire career

So he’s the Florida Marlins of the NFL?

 

[Curt S Loew]

Amazingly, Eli has only played in 12 career playoff games.

Brady has played in 34 playoff games despite his teams earning first round byes in 11 of 14 seasons in which they've made the postseason.

Not really amazing that Brady has played in 30 something more than Eli. The Patriots have had a pretty good run.

 

[InstaFace]

Beware the Ghost of Christmas Future.

Seriously. There but for the grace of avocado ice cream go we.

 

[pappymojo]

All I know is that once Eli gets inducted into the Hall of Fame, these authenticated game-worn jerseys I have are going to be priceless.

 

[Hoya81]

Eli to Denver makes too much sense.

 

[lexrageorge]

Eli to Denver makes too much sense.

My money is on the Jets, as that would be a classic Jets move.

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Isn't Jacksonville and Coughlin the logical landing spot? They have 30+ million in cap space as of now, they have a good running game, good line. Great defense. Seems that might be a match

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I imagine Eli could find another team to take him for a year, maybe two, but if he has taken his final snap (or last few) here's where he stacks up in some of the counting stat rankings:

Completions: 4,319 (6th) - He's 600 behind Marino who's ahead of him, so even if he plays a bit longer it'd be extremely unlikely for him to move up. Rivers and Roethlisberger will both pass him if they play the full season next year. With another 16 played Carson Palmer would likely pass him, but I'd say it's 50/50 if he can hang onto the league that long with his injury history and age. Matt Ryan will pass him with 2 more seasons, Rodgers with 3 more, Flacco with 3 more, Stafford with 4 more.
Passing Yards: 50,625 (7th) - He'll finish 850 behind Elway, who he almost certainly would have passed with a healthy receiving corp all year, but he might be unlikely to reach even if he started the rest of the way. Roethlisberger is 850 yards behind him and will likely pass him by the end of this year. Rivers will pass him, if he plays at all next year. Based on his Y/G the last two seasons, Palmer would need a full 16 games to pass Eli. Matt Ryan would probably need 2 1/4 seasons. Rodgers would easily pass him with 3 full seasons. Flacco would need 4 seasons. Stafford would need 4 seasons.
Passing Touchdowns: 335 (T7th) - But not for long as he's tied with Rivers who will probably over take him on Sunday. Big Ben is 13 back, so while it's possible he could do it this year with a strong finish to the season, he'd like need a game or two next season to pass him. Rodgers would pass him with a full season next year. Palmer would probably need a season and a half. Ryan would pass him with 3 more seasons. Stafford would probably need 5 seasons.
Wins: 118 (9th) - Certainly a much harder category to extrapolate. Rivers is at 106 so would probably be a coin flip to pass him with one more full season, definitely should with 2. Rodgers at 103, should definitely pass him with 2 seasons. Flacco at 99 would probably do it with 3. Ryan at 95 could do it in 3 or 4 seasons. Russel Wilson at 71, probably has as good a shot as anyone else to pass him in the next 5 seasons.

Certainly all of those players won't be able to do pass him in those categories. If we're looking at where he stands in 5 years when he's eligible (or perhaps we should go 6 because everyone can agree he's not gonna get in on his first try), I could see him being around:
Completions - 10th or 11th
Yards - 12th
Touchdowns - 11th
Wins - 12th

Interesting stats. I was struck by the lack of production from QBs that are aged 25-34.

Am I correct that the only two QBs who are currently between the ages of 25-34 who have won Super Bowls are Rodgers and Joe Flacco?

And other than Rodgers, the best of the bunch may be Matt Ryan?

That's a lot of bad quarterback play being produced in that period, which is probably why the NFL mostly sucks right now.

 

[BaseballJones]

Isn't Jacksonville and Coughlin the logical landing spot? They have 30+ million in cap space as of now, they have a good running game, good line. Great defense. Seems that might be a match

Eli would probably be good in either Denver or Jacksonville. And there's a reasonable chance he wouldn't end up costing either of those teams too much money. Can't imagine the market for Eli would be very big.

 

[Super Nomario]

Interesting stats. I was struck by the lack of production from QBs that are aged 25-34.

Am I correct that the only two QBs who are currently between the ages of 25-34 who have won Super Bowls are Rodgers and Joe Flacco?

And other than Rodgers, the best of the bunch may be Matt Ryan?

That's a lot of bad quarterback play being produced in that period, which is probably why the NFL mostly sucks right now.

Russell Wilson

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Eli would probably be good in either Denver or Jacksonville. And there's a reasonable chance he wouldn't end up costing either of those teams too much money. Can't imagine the market for Eli would be very big.

How does it work in terms of NFL trades - would the Giants be trading for mid-range draft picks or just releasing him and taking the cap hit? And then Jac or Den sign him to a completely different contract? The NFL always confuses the hell out of me when it comes to this stuff.

 

[loshjott]

Russell Wilson

Yeah, I was just thinking Russell Wilson couldn't be only 25. He's 29.

 

[lexrageorge]

How does it work in terms of NFL trades - would the Giants be trading for mid-range draft picks or just releasing him and taking the cap hit? And then Jac or Den sign him to a completely different contract? The NFL always confuses the hell out of me when it comes to this stuff.

The link below will give you some details on Eli's contract:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/

A trade works similarly to a cut in that the remaining signing bonus money gets accelerated onto the trading team's (NY Giants) cap. Eli's contract did have $67M in guaranteed money, but that will have been paid out by the end of this season. So the Giants would actually save between $9M and $16M in cap space in 2018 by trading or cutting Eli. The biggest issue with a trade is that the receiving team would have to take on the $16M in salaries and bonus due him in 2018.

 

[Super Nomario]

The link below will give you some details on Eli's contract:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/

A trade works similarly to a cut in that the remaining signing bonus money gets accelerated onto the trading team's (NY Giants) cap. Eli's contract did have $67M in guaranteed money, but that will have been paid out by the end of this season. The biggest issue with a trade is that the receiving team would have to take on the $16M cap hit in 2018.

No, the Giants would be stuck with the cap hit from the signing bonus ($6.2 MM in both 2018 and 2019). So Eli's 2018 cap figure would be a little less than $10 MM for the receiving team (all non-guaranteed).

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Mike Francesa on Ben McAdoo: “Maybe on the way out you can look at Eli’s rings because that’s the closest you’ll ever get to one”.

Except for the fact that he has one already - he was TE coach for the 2010 Super Bowl-winning Packers. (I know that's not really his point, but still.)

 

[BigJimEd]

No, the Giants would be stuck with the cap hit from the signing bonus ($6.2 MM in both 2018 and 2019). So Eli's 2018 cap figure would be a little less than $10 MM for the receiving team (all non-guaranteed).

You are missing the roster and workout bonus which adds anther 5.5M.

 

[Super Nomario]

You are missing the roster and workout bonus which adds anther 5.5M.

Sorry, you (and @lexrageorge) are correct. I was misreading the OTC stuff. I can't imagine Eli has a lot of trade value at those cap numbers.

 

[lexrageorge]

No, the Giants would be stuck with the cap hit from the signing bonus ($6.2 MM in both 2018 and 2019). So Eli's 2018 cap figure would be a little less than $10 MM for the receiving team (all non-guaranteed).

I believe the $5.5M in roster and workout bonuses would be the responsibility of the receiving team. Of course, that depends upon the timing of the trade and the terms of those specific bonuses.

 

[StuckOnYouk]

Per Francesa, he's due a 5 million dollar roster bonus within a handful of days after the SB.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

I'm really annoyed this guy is the only one to beat us in the SB. Twice. I will always credit it more (rightfully) to Coughlin, their defense at the time, and general bullshit than fucking Eli.

hell, most of our playoff runs since 2006-07 have ended because of strong defenses, not the opponent's QB. but Eli will always have that talking point now and it's irritating.

 

[tims4wins]

I'm really annoyed this guy is the only one to beat us in the SB. Twice. I will always credit it more (rightfully) to Coughlin, their defense at the time, and general bullshit than fucking Eli.

hell, most of our playoff runs since 2006-07 have ended because of strong defenses, not the opponent's QB. but Eli will always have that talking point now and it's irritating.

Eli and Peyton have 4 titles, and during all 4 title runs their teams beat the Pats (all of which in agonizing fashion). That stings a fuckton.

 

[StuckOnYouk]

I'm really annoyed this guy is the only one to beat us in the SB. Twice. I will always credit it more (rightfully) to Coughlin, their defense at the time, and general bullshit than fucking Eli.

hell, most of our playoff runs since 2006-07 have ended because of strong defenses, not the opponent's QB. but Eli will always have that talking point now and it's irritating.

Eli's pass to Manningham in the 2nd superbowl was one of the great throws in SB history. I'd say he had something to do with the SB wins.

 

[patinorange]

I'm really annoyed this guy is the only one to beat us in the SB. Twice. I will always credit it more (rightfully) to Coughlin, their defense at the time, and general bullshit than fucking Eli.

hell, most of our playoff runs since 2006-07 have ended because of strong defenses, not the opponent's QB. but Eli will always have that talking point now and it's irritating.

I would generally agree that the Coughlin defense messed with the Patriots in both Super Bowls. But I have to give Eli credit for getting to that first Super Bowl. He took a severe beating in Green Bay in the NFC championship game and hung in there for the win. His legacy is two rings and his durability. The Giants have handled this poorly. I love it. I think he lands in Jacksonville.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Eli's pass to Manningham in the 2nd superbowl was one of the great throws in SB history. I'd say he had something to do with the SB wins.

SB46? Absolutely. SB 42? Not really. He led his team to 10 points against a decent defense before needing some ridiculous luck to score the go ahead TD. Maybe I’m too blinded by the Lombardi’s but I feel like Eli had more luck in that one game than Brady has had his entire postseason career.

 

[dbn]

I'm really annoyed this guy is the only one to beat us in the SB. Twice. I will always credit it more (rightfully) to Coughlin, their defense at the time, and general bullshit than fucking Eli.

hell, most of our playoff runs since 2006-07 have ended because of strong defenses, not the opponent's QB. but Eli will always have that talking point now and it's irritating.

[minutiae]
As worded, you are incorrect. McMahon and Favre also beat NE in the SB. Though only once.
[/minutiae]

 

[rodderick]

SB46? Absolutely. SB 42? Not really. He led his team to 10 points against a decent defense before needing some ridiculous luck to score the go ahead TD. Maybe I’m too blinded by the Lombardi’s but I feel like Eli had more luck in that one game than Brady has had his entire postseason career.

Tuck rule call on its own was pretty close to helmet catch in terms of luck.

 

[tims4wins]

Ahem Edelman catch

 

[lexrageorge]

[minutiae]
As worded, you are incorrect. McMahon and Favre also beat NE in the SB. Though only once.
[/minutiae]

McMahon actually beat New England twice in the Super Bowl. He was Favre's backup when GB won.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Tuck rule call on its own was pretty close to helmet catch in terms of luck.

Tuck rule doesn’t even come close, imo. That was the proper application of a rule. If your point was that Brady was lucky that Walt Coleman applied it properly when many refs wouldn’t have, I can agree with that.

 

[dbn]

McMahon actually beat New England twice in the Super Bowl. He was Favre's backup when GB won.

I had 100.0000% forgotten about that. Wow.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Ahem Edelman catch

Fair point although I’d still argue that Helmet Catch was luckier since it required not only a no call on a blatant hold but then a Hail Mary in between like 5 guys and then a ridiculous catch on top of that.

The fog of war is probably getting to me but I’m trying to come up with a game where Brady got as collectively lucky as Eli in SB42. Maybe 2006 San Diego where he played poorly and got a 2nd life thanks to Troy?

 

[InstaFace]

SB46? Absolutely. SB 42? Not really. He led his team to 10 points against a decent defense before needing some ridiculous luck to score the go ahead TD. Maybe I’m too blinded by the Lombardi’s but I feel like Eli had more luck in that one game than Brady has had his entire postseason career.

Depends on your perspective, right Gunfighter?

Tuck rule doesn’t even come close, imo. That was the proper application of a rule. If your point was that Brady was lucky that Walt Coleman applied it properly when many refs wouldn’t have, I can agree with that.

The lucky part of the tuck rule was that Brady was hit at the precise moment when it would have been ruled an incomplete pass - under only that obscure rule, rather than under common sense and the usual procession of such calls on the field. Brady didn't see Woodson coming, so it could have been just an instant later. And then, yes, the correct application of the rule by the ref, to the consternation of just about everyone.

To say nothing of the ref luck about the eligible-ineligible shenanigans against Baltimore, when we'd reached the part of the game where we were pulling out the kitchen sink. We're not always so lucky (see: disallowed block of a PAT in last year's super bowl, and its scoring ramifications)

Edelman's catch, meanwhile, was supreme focus and execution (as was Manningham's). I have a much harder time calling that luck, than I do Kearse's catch, or Tyree's.

 

[tims4wins]

Fair point although I’d still argue that Helmet Catch was luckier since it required not only a no call on a blatant hold but then a Hail Mary in between like 5 guys and then a ridiculous catch on top of that.

The fog of war is probably getting to me but I’m trying to come up with a game where Brady got as collectively lucky as Eli in SB42. Maybe 2006 San Diego where he played poorly and got a 2nd life thanks to Troy?

Yeah the 2006 playoff game comes to memory. There wasn't an insane amount of luck involved in the Steelers or Rams wins in 2001. The 2003 run was pretty clean. I mean the Pats got lucky that the Titans WR didn't come down with the catch on 4th down, but that wasn't Brady's luck and it wasn't a gimme catch. The 2004 run wasn't particularly lucky, they easily beat Indy and Pittsburgh and were in control against Philly. 2006 SD was lucky but didn't result in a title. The 2014 run they didn't have any luck against Baltimore or Indy or Seattle. Really the luckiest moment during any of the title runs was probably the Edelman catch, and that required a ridiculous amount of skill.

The Giants shouldn't have even been in 46, the Niners muffed multiple punts in the NFCCG that led to direct points.

 

[moondog80]

Ahem Edelman catch

That was on first down, with more time on the clock, and for a shorter gain. And also a less ridiculous catch IMO.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Depends on your perspective, right Gunfighter?



The lucky part of the tuck rule was that Brady was hit at the precise moment when it would have been ruled an incomplete pass - under only that obscure rule, rather than under common sense and the usual procession of such calls on the field. Brady didn't see Woodson coming, so it could have been just an instant later. And then, yes, the correct application of the rule by the ref, to the consternation of just about everyone.

To say nothing of the ref luck about the eligible-ineligible shenanigans against Baltimore, when we'd reached the part of the game where we were pulling out the kitchen sink. We're not always so lucky (see: disallowed block of a PAT in last year's super bowl, and its scoring ramifications)

Edelman's catch, meanwhile, was supreme focus and execution (as was Manningham's). I have a much harder time calling that luck, than I do Kearse's catch, or Tyree's.

I will counter by saying that Oakland was lucky that Woodson wasn’t called for a personal foul for blatantly smacking Brady in the helmet before the fumble, err, forward pass. However, the same can be said for Vrabel on the Law pick 6 against the Rams, which was pretty lucky since it got us going in a game where the offense really didn’t do much.

 

[The Needler]

Edelman's catch, meanwhile, was supreme focus and execution (as was Manningham's). I have a much harder time calling that luck, than I do Kearse's catch, or Tyree's.

The luck part (in addition to focus and execution) was the ball hitting Alford's leg instead of the ground. It had already slipped through Edelman's hands once and would've hit the ground otherwise.

 

[InstaFace]

I did some analysis about the Patriots' fumble luck, but this is rapidly becoming worthy of another thread.

edit: fair point, Needler.

 

[lexrageorge]

To say nothing of the ref luck about the eligible-ineligible shenanigans against Baltimore, when we'd reached the part of the game where we were pulling out the kitchen sink. We're not always so lucky (see: disallowed block of a PAT in last year's super bowl, and its scoring ramifications)

Not sure what you mean by "ref luck". The play was perfectly legit and allowed by the rules. There was no judgment call to reply upon. The beauty of the entire episode was the simplicity of the play: unbalanced line with a player with an eligible receiver number on his jersey checking in as ineligible so he could line up inside the eligible receivers.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Yeah the 2006 playoff game comes to memory. There wasn't an insane amount of luck involved in the Steelers or Rams wins in 2001. The 2003 run was pretty clean. I mean the Pats got lucky that the Titans WR didn't come down with the catch on 4th down, but that wasn't Brady's luck and it wasn't a gimme catch. The 2004 run wasn't particularly lucky, they easily beat Indy and Pittsburgh and were in control against Philly. 2006 SD was lucky but didn't result in a title. The 2014 run they didn't have any luck against Baltimore or Indy or Seattle. Really the luckiest moment during any of the title runs was probably the Edelman catch, and that required a ridiculous amount of skill.

The Giants shouldn't have even been in 46, the Niners muffed multiple punts in the NFCCG that led to direct points.

Maybe not luck, but in the AFCCG against the Steelers they scored 7 points on a punt return and 7 points on a blocked FG return. Maybe fluke is more the right word since those actual plays were not lucky but were the result of superior execution, but you aren't going to win many games when you are reliant on your special teams unit for points.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

The biggest piece of luck the Patriots have enjoyed is being in a division with Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets. I've seen people slice and dice the win-loss numbers to try to prove or disprove the point, but the basic fact is that these are three mediocre organizations that between them have never put together a truly high level team for a multiyear run. The best teams we've had to deal with are probably the Dave Wannstedt Dolphins and Rex's Jets. No other AFC East team has ever won 12 games since 2001. Even in a pretty pathetic division like the AFC South, all four of the teams have won 12 games at least once during that period. The best QB we've had to deal with is probably Ryan Tannehill, Drew Bledsoe, or Chad Pennington.

 

[NYCSox]

Maybe not luck, but in the AFCCG against the Steelers they scored 7 points on a punt return and 7 points on a blocked FG return. Maybe fluke is more the right word since those actual plays were not lucky but were the result of superior execution, but you aren't going to win many games when you are reliant on your special teams unit for points.

The blocked FG turning into a TD was luck. The block itself was execution but returning it for a TD was luck in that it had to land in the right spot with the right person there to collect the ball and the right person there for the lateral.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

The blocked FG turning into a TD was luck. The block itself was execution but returning it for a TD was luck in that it had to land in the right spot with the right person there to collect the ball and the right person there for the lateral.

That's fair.

 

[johnmd20]

The biggest piece of luck the Patriots have enjoyed is being in a division with Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets. I've seen people slice and dice the win-loss numbers to try to prove or disprove the point, but the basic fact is that these are three mediocre organizations that between them have never put together a truly high level team for a multiyear run. The best teams we've had to deal with are probably the Dave Wannstedt Dolphins and Rex's Jets. No other AFC East team has ever won 12 games since 2001. Even in a pretty pathetic division like the AFC South, all four of the teams have won 12 games at least once during that period. The best QB we've had to deal with is probably Ryan Tannehill, Drew Bledsoe, or Chad Pennington.

Brady's record against the AFC, including playoffs.

East: 70-20 (.778)
North: 29-7 (806)
South: 33-6 (846)
West: 23-14 (.622)

Against NFC, including playoffs:

East: 14-5 (.737)
North: 14-3 (.824)
South: 13-3 (.813)
West: 9-5 (.643)

There isn't much slicing and dicing going on. He wins everywhere and beats everyone he plays at a consistent rate. I wrote this in the other thread but I'll write it again, the AFC sucks precisely because they have to play the Patriots 6 times a year.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Brady's record against the AFC, including playoffs.

East: 70-20 (.778)
North: 29-7 (806)
South: 33-6 (846)
West: 23-14 (.622)

Against NFC, including playoffs:

East: 14-5 (.737)
North: 14-3 (.824)
South: 13-3 (.813)
West: 9-5 (.643)

There isn't much slicing and dicing going on. He wins everywhere and beats everyone he plays at a consistent rate. I wrote this in the other thread but I'll write it again, the AFC sucks precisely because they have to play the Patriots 6 times a year.

These are small subsamples and they're only indirectly responsive to the key issue, which is whether or not Buffalo, Miami, and the Jets have been collectively far worse organizations than your average three NFL teams during the BB/Brady era. The Patriots' record against different teams is a bad way to analyze that question. Look at it in any other light and its pretty clear that they are collectively mediocre and that its not just because the Patriots have beaten them consistently. Between the three franchises, they haven't had a single good quarterback, no particularly well regarded front offices, and, really, no particularly good teams for 17 years. Its a remarkable level of futility.

Edit: Not sure why this was moved to the Eli thread but running with it...

 

[StuckOnYouk]

SB46? Absolutely. SB 42? Not really. He led his team to 10 points against a decent defense before needing some ridiculous luck to score the go ahead TD. Maybe I’m too blinded by the Lombardi’s but I feel like Eli had more luck in that one game than Brady has had his entire postseason career.

Go back and look at the Eli to Tyree play. It was a great individual effort by both players. Eli to get out of the grasp of a defender once or twice, stumble back, stay on his feet and throw it 40-45 yards downfield. Tyree to hang on with an all-pro safety draped all over him trying to rip it away from him.

I fail to see how "luck" played into that play at all.