F**k you, Deflategate
- Thread starter Jnai
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And also because the current rule is dumb.
The Pats won fair and square under the rules of engagement and complaining about their win is nonsense, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep pushing for OT to be an extension of the actual game rather than having weird idiosyncratic conditions for winning.
Screw penalty shots, golden goals, sudden death, or baroque OT rules; play ordinary extra periods, quarters, or innings in every sport to keep measuring the game as it's normally measured.
I have no problem with the current OT format. It's not realistic to just 'keep playing full quarters'. It's great and fun when a hockey game goes three OTs or whatever but there's a reason they only play 16 football games a year and only once a week. It's a barbaric and dangerous game and the longer they are out on the field, the more serious injuries and concussions come into play. I would be okay with an argument to go to the college style, though probably wouldn't agree with it. Saying 'you guys stay out there for full 15 minute quarters until someone wins' strikes me as negligent. It's a far cry from playing extra innings or longer periods of basketball. The more tired players get the more likely they are prone to significant injuries.
It's a far better system than the old one and I think it's fair. If you can't stop a td, you lose. Game over.
At most, I'd say give them both a chance with the ball no matter what and then if it's tied up after that, it's sudden death. I have no interest in seeing a football game go to a second or third OT and watching players destroy their bodies and futures. You want to do that, at least guarantee their contracts. Otherwise it's no different than the arguments for/against and 18 game schedule, albeit with an unknown variable in as far as how many times that would even surface.
It's a far better system than the old one and I think it's fair. If you can't stop a td, you lose. Game over.
At most, I'd say give them both a chance with the ball no matter what and then if it's tied up after that, it's sudden death. I have no interest in seeing a football game go to a second or third OT and watching players destroy their bodies and futures. You want to do that, at least guarantee their contracts. Otherwise it's no different than the arguments for/against and 18 game schedule, albeit with an unknown variable in as far as how many times that would even surface.
The problem with the current OT rule is that win probability is significantly affected by the flip of a coin. There are several ways to overcome this without lengthening the game. I wrote a (much too long) blog post about this several years ago: http://danieljepson.blogspot.com/2009/11/thoughts-on-nfl-overtime.html
Edit: (this was pre-rule change, so the magnitude of the win probability shift is lower now. But the general principle still applies).
Edit: (this was pre-rule change, so the magnitude of the win probability shift is lower now. But the general principle still applies).
Yup. Amendola was wearing a " Fu*k Goddell" hat today, which is from Barstool. There was also someone on Kraft's duckboat wearing a "they hate us cause they ain't us" t-shirt.
Amendola was also waving a "Goodell wears crocs" sign. Gronk lead a chorus of boos at Goodell during a rally in Rhode Island. They might say they were pandering to the crowd or got caught up in the moment. But I think it's hard to deny that they didn't use it for at least a little bit of motivation.
Bidding is probably the fairest but is never happening.
I think there's also an argument to play an extra quarter in the playoff games (or 12 minutes or something) rather than sudden death.
I suspect the rule will be changed so that each team gets the ball no matter what and then it becomes sudden death. The issue with that is you will have more regular season ties and I don't know if anyone wants that.
I would be ok with keeping the rule as is for the regular season and the change just taking place for the playoffs. Hockey has different OT rules for regular season and playoffs so it isn't like it is uncharted territory.
Belichick of course agrees. He has said they should put some time on the clock and play.
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-belichick-not-a-fan-of-nfl-overtime-2017-2
It was a "Fire Goodell" hat. They'll poke him but saying "fuck" him would probably be a step too far.
Ahh, you are right. On both accounts.
I also wonder if BB, Kraft and Co. told them that they could let their hair down a bit yesterday (as far as the Goodell stuff), but after that, zip it. And maybe Amendola thinks he's not coming back so he just let loose. Gronk is Gronk.
I also wonder if BB, Kraft and Co. told them that they could let their hair down a bit yesterday (as far as the Goodell stuff), but after that, zip it. And maybe Amendola thinks he's not coming back so he just let loose. Gronk is Gronk.
The problem with giving both teams the ball even if a TD is scored is that it becomes a huge advantage to the second team. They effectively play with 4 downs instead of 3 since punting is not an option.
That happens now with FGs, but that advantage serves as an offset to the first team's ability to end the game.
That happens now with FGs, but that advantage serves as an offset to the first team's ability to end the game.
Was thinking the same thing. And as regards to Patricia wearing the barstool t-shirt. Hard to believe he had it on for the whole flight, and nobody thought to tell him not to wear it in public. Explicitly or tacitly, seems like they were ok with a couple of passive-aggressive jabs being thrown at Goodell. Truthfully, I could have skipped any of it. Not because I think it hurts the team in any way. And certainly not because Goodell doesn't richly deserve it. I just thought the approach and the optics on the podiums Sunday night and Monday morning were perfect. Kraft, BB, TB with their perfunctory, almost after thought handshakes/thank you's. He with his awkward, trying way too hard to be gracious and project authority at the same time. The win was a giant, resounding F-You. And in the aftermath, I thought he came off as the small, mediocre sock puppet that he is.
I have to think Kraft, BB, or both okayed all of that stuff. And kudos to them for doing so---they were screwed by Goodell and his toadies and they overcame that. They earned the right to mock the persecutor.
Thank you.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on Deflategate and IMO, he went after the Patriots hard to appease the owners. He was very friendly with Kraft, the other 31 owners put pressure on him to hammer the Patriots.
The deeper and longer it went, yes, it became personal, but it all started with the owners pressuring him to hammer New England.
For me, Deflategate is over, the team, the owner and the QB all got their revenge, winning the Super Bowl in the end was the final victory.
I'm done with it, time to move on and if opposing fans give me a hard time over it, at this stage of the game, I'll just laugh in their faces, hold up my hand to show 5 fingers and walk away.
My only thing is that the owners are no less likely today to grab the torches and pitchforks to try to kill the beast one more time. I'm over it all too, but I can't help but assume Congressional hearings the next time a player trips on the turf at Gillette.
Yup, and given that the patriots now have a "history of cheating" it will take less to happen, and be punished worse.
Great post.
I think that over the long span of time, this is what will happen. But I think the stench of Deflategate will linger for a long, long time with an awful lot of people. I mean, I saw idiots on Facebook posting memes right after the game that the Patriots had to be cheating again. And as long as people keep going there - and believe me, there will be TONS of them doing just that - this issue simply is not going to die.
It should be dead. It never should have been alive in the first place. It's not even a thing. But it is a thing and the haters will always bring it up. Screw them, because it's so freaking stupid but, well, there it is.
For me it's not over and will never be over.
* Deflategate brought back Spygate (aided by nonsense ESPN and SI stories) and the combination forever put a stain on the franchise and its two icons. Not from us fans, but from everyone else. Brady and Belichick are basically two guys one day whose names should be said by the Pro Football writers on a Saturday before a Super Bowl, and that's their entire sponsor's HOF candidacy speech, just their names and a unanimous "yes" vote. But you know these things will be discussed.
* The $1 million fine and the 4 games are gone, so in that aspect it is over.
* What's really not over is the forfeiture of last year's 1st round pick and this upcoming draft's 4th round pick. Last year, the Pats would have had the 29th pick in the first. So, they forfeited either a really good player potential, or the opportunity for Belichick to trade the pick for multiple later picks or future picks. That's not insignificant and hurts them into the future.
* Deflategate brought back Spygate (aided by nonsense ESPN and SI stories) and the combination forever put a stain on the franchise and its two icons. Not from us fans, but from everyone else. Brady and Belichick are basically two guys one day whose names should be said by the Pro Football writers on a Saturday before a Super Bowl, and that's their entire sponsor's HOF candidacy speech, just their names and a unanimous "yes" vote. But you know these things will be discussed.
* The $1 million fine and the 4 games are gone, so in that aspect it is over.
* What's really not over is the forfeiture of last year's 1st round pick and this upcoming draft's 4th round pick. Last year, the Pats would have had the 29th pick in the first. So, they forfeited either a really good player potential, or the opportunity for Belichick to trade the pick for multiple later picks or future picks. That's not insignificant and hurts them into the future.
Agreed; the other 31 owners are beside themselves over this.
The Patriots got hammered, 2 draft picks lost, QB suspended for four games yet they still won it all.
Re: picks.
On the bright side, what would Jimmy G have been worth prior to Brady's suspension? A fourth-rounder...MAYBE?
In hindsight everything worked out incredibly well for the Patriots. Brady took fewer hits, Jimmy established ridiculous trade value that may net us more in terms of draft picks than we lost, we (FINALLY) beat the Broncos in Denver and the Steelers in the AFCCG on the way to the Super Bowl, we won the Super Bowl, Brady was named MVP, media all over the county is finally acknowledging Brady as the GOAT and the majority have denounced DFG altogether, and Roger Goodell has to come to Foxboro when we hang the banner.
I'm more than okay with all of this.
Yes, even in the NCAA system the team going second has an information advantage, i.e. It knows what the first team did or didn't do. There's a lot of value in knowing whether you need to score 3, 6, 7 or 8 points to win (or tie and play another round.) it's not only the extra down.
The most equitable system would be to simply play another period, 10, 12 or 15 mins.
This article is multiple changes ago. It was 60/40 at that point.
When they moved the kickoff, it went to 55/45. The new rule (with guaranteed possessions) is also roughly 55/45 (just in the opposite direction)
I also absolutely disagree with him on excitement and "just extend the 4th quarter". That solution kills an awful lot of exciting endings - rather than having a tense rush to see if you can kick a fieldgoal to win before time runs out - you get a lot of slow drives (because coaches are almost always conservative) that extend into overtime. You get way more long overtime games, and way less exciting two minute drives to end games.
Playing another (discrete)period isn't necessarily equitable either - the team that gets the ball first is going to have an extra possession in many of those games, and is going to be significantly less time constrained - and it doesn't actually solve any of the problems the current system presents. The best way would be to play two quarters, structured like halves where each team gets to kickoff once - but then you're looking at significantly longer game, unless you shorten the 'new halves' to much shorter than a normal quarter, and then you've broken out of the "play the game as its normally played" qualifier that people want.
And even doing that may not get you much closer than 55/45.
My concern with the "both teams get to touch the ball in OT" concept is that it favors the 2nd team to get the ball. They know if they're in 4-down territory, they know if a FG is enough. They know if they might wanna go for a 2-point conversion. Listen, everyone had 60 minutes to win the football game. If you couldn't, and then you can't stop a TD on the first possession in OT, you lose. Seems reasonable to me.
This is exactly right.
As has always been the case, the winners get to write the history. And the Pats, Belichick, and Brady are the winners. The tide is turning. The revisionists are coming forward.
No need to mention hockey - the NFL already has different OT rules for regular season and playoffs when it comes to the clock. If one team uses up the first 15 minutes of OT on a ridiculously long drive and kicks a FG as time expires, the other team doesn't get the ball in the regular season (Rule 16 Article 4a), but gets it in the postseason (Rule 16 Article 5a). Similarly, if one team uses up 10 minutes for a FG drive, the other team gets only 5 minutes to counter in the regular season but gets as much time as it needs in the postseason.
I had no idea. Imagine the massive outcry if the Falcons had gone first to get a FG in 10 minutes and then the "NFL put extra time on the clock" to help the Patriots complete a drive the other way.
Fortunately, the more the Pats win, the pettier it sounds to bring up cheating. But it doesn't follow that someone who believes the Pats cheated in the past, as misguided as that belief is, should or even will stop bringing up cheating just because the Pats have won so many Super Bowls. Their continued success should suggest that whatever cheating they were accused of is pretty inconsequential, but then again, why would the Pats break a rule that doesn't give them an unfair advantage? I don't begrudge the average fan for not totally understanding what happened with either Spygate or Ballghazi, when the majority of voices on NFLN and ESPN call the Pats cheaters constantly.
I would love to see the PSI data recorded by the league last year get leaked. (But how?) It would prove the NFL knew the PSI charge was bullshit and let Brady's punishment stand anyway, and would probably shed Spygate in a new light. That's the only way this ever really ends.
I would love to see the PSI data recorded by the league last year get leaked. (But how?) It would prove the NFL knew the PSI charge was bullshit and let Brady's punishment stand anyway, and would probably shed Spygate in a new light. That's the only way this ever really ends.
How dumb of an idea is to make OT sudden death and instead of a coin flip just continue the game where it ended at the end of the 4th quarter ?
That's kind of the point. Just turn the game clock off (keeping the play clock of course) and keep playing until it's no longer tied. Would make for some interesting final drives with the game tied, that's for sure.
It is the end of a half though. To continue the game from where it left off takes away the excitement of tie game and a team driving for a FG.
There are maybe 2 teams in the NFL that would actually go for two instead of kicking a PAT down 1, and even they'd do it the minority of the time.
What it would do is replace a whole lot of frantic end of game drives with slow ones.
Always loved Joe Thomas. No one has said it better, via PFT:
“I especially enjoyed how over-eager Roger was to smile at all the Patriots and give them a big handshake, but then as soon as he gave them the trophy he scurried off the stage like a rat,” Thomas said. “It was awesome.”
“I especially enjoyed how over-eager Roger was to smile at all the Patriots and give them a big handshake, but then as soon as he gave them the trophy he scurried off the stage like a rat,” Thomas said. “It was awesome.”
Joe Thomas has earned a permanent spot on the white list for his DFG work. He really seems to hate Goodell.
Why? It's the Ideal Gas "Law" for a reason...anyone with a brain and no axe to grind already knows what those readings looked like. The "Cheatriots" crowd wouldn't care (or understand)...if they possessed the capacity, they wouldn't need any more data points than have been readily available for years.
That's hardly completely insane. It's not much different from college rules, except that it encourages less risk-taking and makes it more likely that OT is extended for no good reason. If some ballsy team wants to go for two to end, why shouldn't it be rewarded, like in regulation?