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Fast forward to legitimate title contention...

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by RetractableRoof, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Maybe it is too early, and I'm not skipping the rest of the playoffs, but that said...

    It's easy to say this player or that player should be gone, I decided to actually look at what I think the Celtics roster could/should look like when they are next ready to challenge for a championship. I've decided that I'm not Ainge and so I don't know all the inner workings, and therefore I'm allowing myself 70/30 ratio of reality/creative fiction. But I'm going to try to be honest where the creative fiction is...

    Note: I found this is harder than it looks... and I'm not even changing much.
    Note 2: If I'm really going to write some fiction, after winning his title with GSW in 2017, Durant decides to come to Boston to spend the remainder of his career winning with HIS team. But the reality is, I'm not that good of a writer... lol

    What does your team look like??? [Edit 2: I am really interested to see where your preferences would be if you could make it happen.]

    GM Philosphy:
    I'm aiming to recapture the new big three (Big Three cubed?) by virtue of roles/personalities even if the positions don't match up. I'm going to franken create them the same way Duquette replaced Mo Vaughn's OBP... wait, that didn't work so well. I want a deeper depth on the team though - so they get to the playoffs without being beaten up or worn into the ground. I don't care about seeding, I just want to get in.

    Window:

    This is definitely a 3-4 year window from now, nothing happening next year or the even next unless we catch lightening in a bottle. I think 2018 regular season they might even step back a bit, but I'm not worrying about it - I've got job security.

    Starters:
    Jaylen Brown: I think he grows into Pierce lite. I think by year 3 he is a better than average scorer, about 20-24 points per game and without a lot of volume to get it. He continues to develop his slashing to the rim, and as his confidence grows he finishes better. He is playing good one on one defense by then and is a reasonable team defender as well. He can guard the Butlers, Georges, without getting destroyed and gets his points as well.
    Josh Jackson: He brings the Garnett like intensity the team needs on the court. He is opportunistic on offense, capitalizing on loose balls, steals, and fast break points for 10-12 points again by year 3. In some games he can just bully his opposite on the other team, spiking to 18-20 ppg. He's going to get 6-8 rebounds a game in my world. He is going to guard the Ben Simmons of the day and relish it - even if they get their 25-30 points a game. [With regard to the 2017 Brooklyn Draft pick: I think there are two scenarios here 1) The ping pong balls screw the Celtics and they get the #2 or #3 pick. That means they pick Jackson as I don't think anyone on Causeway Street wants anything to do with daddy Ball. 2) They get the number 1 pick and someone offers them something special for it, and all bets are off. If that happens I don't know what the team looks like and I give up :) I assume they take Fultz over Jackson if they retain the #1, but choosing Jackson is a piece of my creative fiction - because I just can't see how the current pieces work with Fultz on board.]
    IT4: I'll use up a lot of my creative fiction here. I think he stays in Boston and in my fantasy world I don't think he breaks the bank. I think he takes $15-18 million for 4 years instead of max money and is willing to reprise Ray Allen's role on the Big 3 cubed. We know what he brings, and what he doesn't.
    Zizic: He spends his first 2 years in the league working on his outside shooting and passing. He becomes adequate to prevent the paint from being clogged when Brown, Jackson, IT4 drive to the basket, but he is enough of a post presence to get 10-12 rebounds a game - about 8 on the defensive side. He will hold his own against most bigs and by year 3 will be in the middle of the pack of bigs in the league, maybe 12-14 range or so. Not quite a star but a position we aren't worrying about either.
    Smart: He continues to develop his passing and outside shooting as primary ball handler. He is good for 10-14 points a game including a couple of well selected 3s (the last of my fiction here?) and a couple trips to the line. Continues to provide tenacious defense, and 5-6 rebounds per game. Switches off and takes the tougher guard to defend.

    Bench:
    Horford: At this point a backup to Zizic at the 5, but can spot start and occasionally be used with Zizic. He's going to hang around a long time in a Tim Duncan I don't need athleticism to survive kind of way. Maybe 8-10 points a game off the bench with the second unit, and will utilize his passing to ensure the second unit doesn't go stagnant.
    Crowder: At 31, he brings solid team defense off the bench, scoring a bit from outside, but with not as much time spent going to the basket. He is a veteran voice in the locker room.
    Olynyk: He's matured and is providing what the brothers Lopez bring to the game, but off the bench. Good for 10-12 points a game from outside, but won't rebound much - as the league trend toward sending the bigs out of the paint continues. He doesn't get huge offers from around the league and returns in a team friendly deal.
    Yabusele: His is still developing, very agile one on one defender for his size, but his lateral quickness holding him back as a team defender. He's good for 12-14 points of his own off the bench, mostly on the outside, but also some in the paint when the opposition goes small.
    Rozier: He hits his stride and is able to harness his speed so that he is under control. Backup point guard, isn't focused on scoring from the outside, but will finish more at the rim as the spacing Stevens desires is implemented. His locker is still moved once a season just out of tradition.

    Assets TBD: Brooklyn 2018 1st round pick, Memphis 2018 pick
    Misc end of bench filler / needs: Nader?, Backup big (Memphis 2018 pick?), point guard #3 (a Bradley defensive replacement to be dropped onto Beal, et al), high upside second round lottery ticket, Nader?

    Missing:
    Bradley: Finds a Tony Allen like career elsewhere. The money and minutes aren't available enough for him to stay in the absence of him taking a team friendly deal and I've already used up all my fiction. Unfortunate, because he could have a James Posey like influence on this team - he just won't be here to be part of it. Hardest for me personally, I really like him - he just doesn't finish well at the rim or in traffic, and misses too much time for the money he will command.
    Zeller: lasts another season or two as the uber cheap backup (break glass in case of emergency).
    Amir, Jerebko, Young, Mickey... all gone from the scene after the 2017 playoffs / summer camp end.
    Hayward: Calls and apologizes to Stevens but says he is staying in Utah to finish what is being built out there.

    Summary:
    I think the first team is good enough defensively to get the job done in the playoffs. There is enough offense there that IT4 can't be the focus of the other teams defense. They can cover for IT4 in most defensive situations and the offense will be fine with that unit in their stride. The second unit is a bit weaker defensively, but stronger offensively than this years team. They probably won't be wholesale swapped in though.

    Edit: After more reflection, if they do draft Fultz then I can see IT4 moved and Bradley staying. Ainge won't want any conflict and Fultz and Brown will need to be force fed the ball to accelerate their development.
     
    #1 RetractableRoof, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  2. Grin&MartyBarret

    Grin&MartyBarret Member SoSH Member

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    This seems really rosy to me. If you're right, the Celtics already have the core that they'll need to win the next championship in place, and don't need to win the draft lottery to get there.
     
  3. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Not that hard to see the Cs win the championship if they pick Fultz.

    Here's one starting lineup to think about: Fultz, AB, JB, Michael Porter, Horford.

    Bench = Smart, Yabu, Zizac, Jackson, Nader, filler.

    Maybe that team is a little small and of course it assumes health and continued growth but the potential is there to be pretty awesome for a very long time.
     
  4. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Agreed, I did mention 30% creative fiction right? I think realistically they lose IT4 if they get Fultz. So they are down another scorer that way. Even in my view (no fiction version) I don't think IT4 signs a cap friendly deal and is gone before they are ready to truly compete.

    I can see Olynyk being seen as a last small piece for a contender and losing him as well.

    Other than IT4, given all the feedback in the forums lately I think my rosiest vulnerability is Zizic becoming the 5 the Celtics need.

    I think there are enough assets in the remaining picks to get us there but it requires Ainge to thread the needle quite a bit.

    I almost didn't post this but it did cause me to think a bit more about where they really are and there is goodness in that.
     
  5. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    It's definitely optimistic. It assumes all our prospects develop. I think it's possible one of them develops into more than we all thought as well, though. Maybe Zizic ends up being Nurkic with a 3 point shot.

    It's just as likely they let Rozier walk, Smart is traded, and Jaylen is Corey Maggette.
     
  6. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't know much about Porter. Where/how are they taking him and how quickly do you think he contributes? How's the defense?

    I assume you mean Demetrius Jackson? You've seen enough in the D/G league to think he can help - or is he really just filler?

    Interesting combinations for me to look at. Nice post to cause thought.
     
  7. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    nevermind. Read that wrong.
     
  8. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Fair enough... So how do you see Ainge managing it?
     
  9. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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    Continues to develop his outside shot? He shot 35.9% from the field this year and 28.6% from 3, neither of which was much of an improvement on his already historically bad career marks. His FT shooting has improved, but other than he hasn't developed at all, and this is from a starting point where there was nowhere else to go but up. There was a piece in boston.com hat made the case he just had the worst 3 point shooting season ever (maybe it was bottom 5, can't remember for sure, but the conclusion was really, really, bad). He's a guy who is great to have on his rookie deal, but not at free agent market price. With all the other contracts coming up, plus the hope to add a big name, no way use their chips on him, only question is if they let him play out his contract or trade him this offseason.
     
  10. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I assume he means that Porter comes via the Nets pick next season.
     
  11. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Thanks - I hadn't looked yet and mistakenly tbought he was coming out this year. I've got lots of reading to do :)
     
  12. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Well, he's in high school :)
     
  13. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Smart takes threes at bad times and he takes threes with terrible form. We've seen him in the gym with a coach working in his form - fherefore continues is accurate. Maybe continues to improve is a stretch. If he stopped taking the ill advised ones...

    But considering his age and the other things he brings to the table I'm certainly keeping him for a while.

    That's the point of this thread though - feel free to ship Smart out of town - but who/how do you replace him and whether those resources need to be allocated better heading towards contender status.
     
  14. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    :D So I have time to read... Lol
     
  15. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I think so much depends on the outcome of the Chicago series and where they land in the draft that it's almost impossible to predict right now.

    Regarding Smart... stranger things have happened, but I don't see him improving from 3 much. Since being traded away from the Celtics, Rondo is 131/357 .367 from 3, so there is hope.
     
  16. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    If we strike out in FA but want to "run it back" with IT, I would support a trade for Carmelo if Crowder and some lesser assets like a Rozier gets it done.
     
  17. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    When is the last time you saw Melo play D?? You want 2 starters doing their bullfighter impression on D. Ugh
     
  18. Fred not Lynn

    Fred not Lynn Dick Button Jr. SoSH Member

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    I think Hayward will go where he feels he has the best chance to win a Championship. I worry, from a Utah perspective that the combination of being in a weaker east and the high pick this draft could pull him to Boston.

    I also realize that Utah as constructed now isn't far from making some legitimate playoff runs in the next several years...

    Discuss...?
     
  19. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    When is the last time you saw the Celtics with two elite offensive options? Melo is not my priority but he is signed for only 2 years and the coaching staff reportedly was interested. So, ugh, I guess?
     
  20. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, ugh. I think Carmelo at this point of his career is a selfish player who can't do what he thinks he can do at either end, and a guy who fits best as a 4, where the Celts can't really afford him defensively/rebounding wise.

    I think if he were nearly 'free' talent-wise and you were planning on him as a sixth-man/bench scorer role I'd take a shot. But if the hope is he can be the number two scorer, I think the plan will fail. And I say that agreeing that warts and all he'd be their second best scorer right now---but as currently built they aren't a contender either imo
     
  21. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Well, that is basically my premise. Getting him for cheap. Tough to judge what he has left given how dysfunctional that franchise is. Again, getting him is like a Plan D or E for me but if you're committing to IT another year, then you need another scorer. Obviously, his defensive warts are well-known.
     
  22. nighthob

    nighthob lurker

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    Yeah, I think Melo would be plan Every Other Option Went South and Now We Have to do Something for 2018.

    If none of the major free agents come here, and Chicago is still asking Boston for all its draft capital plus part of its starting lineup and Indiana won't move George and Golden State elects to go with the big 4 and a bunch of minimum wage help, then Boston might kick the tires on Anthony. Essentially as the starting PF for the next two years while the draftees grow into legit NBA players in a winning environment.
     
  23. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I think you said you'd trade Crowder and Rozier for him. I wouldn't, and that's not cheap.
     
  24. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    Depends on your definition of "cheap" and your opinion of Carmelo's potential in Boston. Mine is obviously higher than most. I still think there's something there but I acknowledge the risk. I also don't see Rozier as anything more than a bench rotation guy on a good team. I think Crowder is a nice player on a very team-friendly contract but I'm not sure what a Crowder/Rozier package even gets you if Melo is not your guy.
     
  25. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I guess I just don't understand the idea of expending trade capital for a guy who I don't believe solves an immediate or long term problem. In the long term he won't be available when they are legitimate title contenders(3-4 years IMO), and in the short term they are already capable of winning 50+ games so what value does he bring? I'm not interested in 58 versus 55 if they aren't closer to a title.

    So what does he bring in your eyes? Because Crowder + Rozier isn't cheap when you consider Ainge values Crowder enough that he held him back in Butler/George talks.
     
  26. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    What if it was Rozier and Celtics 1st in 2018 for Carmelo? How cheap is cheap?
     
  27. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    If you run it back with IT, you need another scorer, someone who can create in the half court. Melo's skills aren't what they used to be but he's not 2017 Paul Pierce or anything. He could still help this team in that regard.

    I would love to nab a guy like Hayward, George, or Butler but am not counting on it. If we fail to do that and convince Blake, Millsap, etc. to leave their teams, then Ainge has to make a decision on the direction he wants to go. If he wants a short-term solution, Melo is only signed for 2 years and wouldn't really hurt our long term flexibility. Factoring in contracts, Crowder alone may be worth more than Melo so Rozier may not be even necessary depending on how motivated Phil is.
     
  28. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I just don't see it. If my choice is Melo, or taking a step or two back and having that time given to Brown/2017/2018 draft picks - I choose the development time. If Melo were the Celtics icon I'd maybe understand it, but I just can't see any scenario FOR ME where I'd move any resource or give Melo minutes that a long term asset could benefit from. Unless he was the very last piece of a team that was a title contender. Short of that I'm strongly anti-Melo.
     
  29. moly99

    moly99 Member SoSH Member

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    The opportunity cost of adding Melo would be ruinous even if we gave up nothing to acquire him. (Adding his dead weight salary would prevent us from making other moves to improve the team.) He is also a pretty bad fit from a basketball perspective, so that would be a hard pass for me.

    Blake Griffin is moderately more attractive, but I would ultimately probably say no to him as well if I were the GM.

    I don't think we are one player away from taking down the Warriors or Spurs in a seven game series, so I would prefer to kick the can down the road and continue to build through the draft until we have a chance to build something special. 2007 happened because two hall of fame players became available cheaply. We have to be patient until another such opportunity presents itself.
     
  30. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    I think their next great team is like 4 years away. I am optimistic that Brown will turn into something resembling Jimmy Butler-lite (which would be really good still). I am hoping that this year's first round draft pick turns into a stud, but both of them are probably about 3-4 years away from becoming BIG TIME. I also think that between Yabusele and Zizic they find a really good third guy, even if he's not a star.

    In the meanwhile, I think Thomas is good enough to keep them afloat and interesting and fun. I think they keep enough useful guys to supplement Brown/2017 pick/Yabusele/Zizic.

    Of course, it's also possible that Brown never becomes anything, that Yabusele and Zizic don't pan out, and that the 2017 first round pick only ends up being a decent player.
     
  31. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    While I get that sentiment and the reservations about Carmelo, at some point you have to play a hand. At the end of the day, the goal is to get yourself as one of a handful of teams that has a real chance at winning the title. Golden State's guys are all in their prime so their window is going to be at least another 3-5 years. LeBron is obviously getting up there and his sidekicks have had their own injury issues. Washington and Toronto should be good over the next few years but it will be hard for them to get much better than they currently are.

    The Spurs have a great MVP caliber player in Kawhi but his supporting cast is very old. Aldridge turns 32 this summer. Gasol turns 37. Even Danny Green turns 30 in June. Unless Dejounte Murray turns into another Kawhi surprise, I don't see this team being an insurmountable road block in the next 2-3 years.

    I think this team is pretty close to being in this discussion but they need a George or Butler to get there without gutting the current team. If they can't get one, then they probably have to play the long game.
     
  32. moly99

    moly99 Member SoSH Member

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    This is the same logic that led the Nets to trade their future for KG and Paul Pierce.

    Door 1: a 10% chance of a title in the next three years and a 50% chance of a title in the next 10 years
    Door 2: a 15% chance of a title in the next three years and a 25% chance of a title in the next 10 years

    Which would you choose?
     
  33. nighthob

    nighthob lurker

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    No one is discussing "trading the future for Carmelo". Boston's offer would be built around the odd guard out (Bradley) and the contract relief contract (Zeller). New York won't get much in offers from other teams, so it's not like Boston would need to auction off lottery picks.
     
  34. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I don't think that's a relevant analogy. Trading Crowder for Carmelo, for instance, isn't "trading the future" nor does it come anywhere close to the stupid deal that the Nets made. I'm not advocating trading any of the valuable first rounders for a guy like Carmelo but many of us tend to have the rosiest of projections for how they're going to turn out.

    If we can make a decent short term incremental deal that preserves the LT assets, I wouldn't be opposed. Obviously, opinions will vary on who would make it worthwhile.
     
  35. sezwho

    sezwho Member SoSH Member

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    Carmelo is a rearranging the deck chairs maneuver and would cripple the cap for several years regardless of the trade, as was observed above. They have come too far and have too much runway for that kind, but something needs to be done about the glut of tiny guards and dearth of useful bigs in order to turn this years bunch of assets (which did get #1 seed!) into a purpose built team. I'm not sure whether he has his own thread somewhere, but I'm most perplexed by Avery Bradley and his role both today and into future. He is an NBA first team defender who scores ~15ppg...why does he seem like he isn't a real 'difference maker' on the court and what does DA see for his future?
     
  36. moly99

    moly99 Member SoSH Member

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    845
    That isn't the point. Every dollar of cap space that goes to Anthony is a dollar that can't be used on other moves that would improve the team in the future.
     
  37. nighthob

    nighthob lurker

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    In Boston it's because the Celtics are severely undersized everywhere. Bradley's highest usage is as the PG defender on a team where the offense runs through another spot on the floor. Teams like Milwaukee or Houston could really use a player with Bradley's skill set. It's just in Boston where he spends the majority of his time trying to slow down much bigger players.

    In any event, if Boston lands the first pick Bradley's gone, because there would be too many guards. I guess there would always be the offhand chance that Paul George doesn't make All NBA, which makes free agency a very real risk for the Pacers, at which point it might be Thomas that goes in a package for George.
     
  38. nighthob

    nighthob lurker

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    The reason for the trade would be that every other option dried up, and Boston was deciding to build a team around the lottery picks. And part of that would be wanting to have them develop on a playoff team rather than a crap one.

    If none of the stars possibly available this summer end up here, then Boston's road to top 20 players is, literally, Jaylen Brown, their 2017 draftee, and whoever they end up with in 2018. Carmelo wouldn't change that except in terms of helping Boston plug the hole at the 4 and helping them make playoff runs in the next two years as the fruits of the Nets trade slowly become the heart of the team.
     
  39. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    But how do you resolve that every minute Melo gets is a developmental minute Brown/2017/2018 draft picks don't get?
     
  40. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This I understand - wanting the picks to not mature in a cesspool of losing... but I think Melo is just the wrong direction.
     
  41. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I guess it depends on who we take and who would go the other way. I think Melo would be more of a 3/4 here so if Crowder is the guy going the other way, then that would open up minutes at the 3 for Melo and he could probably slot to the 4 in smaller lineups. Don't think it'd have a huge impact on Brown since I don't think he'll be ready for 30+ mpg next year anyways. As for 2017/2018, Fultz/Ball play in the backcourt and wouldn't really be affected. Tatum and Jackson potentially would but I don't think they'd be any more ready for major minutes than Jaylen was this year.

    And then you're into 2018 when who knows. I think you could dump an expiring Melo in 2018 if that became a problem. Reality is that it's impossible for us to forecast without first knowing where 2017 ping pong balls fall. I'm hoping that we get Fultz and Melo isn't even on the table at that point.
     
  42. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    * Trading for Melo feels similar to the trading for Iverson talk of 2005. It doesn't help us achieve our goal of a Championship it is only a placeholder until the next step......but we just won 53 games we don't need Melo as a placeholder.

    * There were a total of 5 holdovers from the 2006-07 team and the following years Championship Team. There is a good chance that in 3-4 years we have less than that still around from this years team. Role players move on, it's common in this league. For us to take the next step many of these guys will be moved due to their contract outgrowing their role here like Posey, Perkins, Turner, etc.

    * Over the next 15 months there is a good chance that we add TWO high lottery picks along with Jaylen and Zizic. If we are talking potential championships this is the core we should be discussing......not Isaiah, Avery, Jae, Horford, and Kelly. It is the latter who are the real placeholders here. Ainge refused to move ANY asset to help that group this year......he knows where the future of the organization is heading and how amazing the 2021-31 teams can sustain excellence.
     
  43. sezwho

    sezwho Member SoSH Member

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    That makes a lot of sense, thanks for spelling out.

    That makes sense too. Its very long odds, and I'm with Roof in that I wouldn't like the move even as a last resort, but at least its plausible. Melo could even surprise us with team focused play on a team with a real coaching/GM combination, other ultra-competitive players and an actual chance to win. I do think players like Bradley, Smart and Crowder could all play minutes on a championship caliber team though so I'm obviously hoping for a step forward not backwards.
     
  44. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

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    I know this is true, and lack of length is very clearly a big problem with this team, but I would be pretty bummed to see AB go. I've loved watching him get after it on defense, and he's made a ton of progress on offense. Plus he's a bridge to the Big Three era, and seems like a great teammate and a guy who relishes being a Celtic. He'd also be a tremendous asset for the Cavs guarding guys that Kyrie can't in the role I think they envisioned for Shumpert. But even if he doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of roster construction, I still want to keep the guy in green.
     
  45. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    It's too bad LaVine got injured because an AB for LaVine trade would make sense. The Celtics need a 2nd scorer and already have Marcus Smart and Rozier to play defense. Minnesota already has KAT and Wiggins and could use a more defensive minded player. I think AB is a better player but LaVine would fill a bigger need, is 6'5" and is still only 22 years old. Of course if the Celtics draft a guard, that won't help much.
     
  46. Sprowl

    Sprowl gentleman, scholar, slumpbuster and glutton Dope

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    The Celtics have too many guards as it is -- why would they want to spend a resource without rectifying a problem?
     
  47. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    He'd give the C's a 2nd scorer and height in the back court. I'd argue that's fixing a problem. Not sure he and IT would be a great pairing though. They'd be spending a resource but they'd also be getting one back and one that probably has more value to a rebuilding team.

    edit: Although this year he's moved away from creating his own shot and had shots created for him.
     
    #47 bosox79, Apr 23, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  48. smastroyin

    smastroyin simpering whimperer Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,811
    Just as a note here, well, maybe a little more, the Bulls had their end of season wrap press conference today and it really sounds like Butler is on his way out. I mean the Bulls waver all the time but today seems pretty well moving toward rebuilding in a different style than Butler plays. Of course that's probably just the Bulls looking to see if they can get someone to give a ransom (as they should).

    The reason I put this in this thread is the question of what the last two weeks tells us, if anything. I know the popular theory that without the Rondo injury the Celtics are holding their own end of season press conference. But at the end of the day, they won it, and IT has answered some of the criticism that he can be stopped in the playoffs. They are going to go 6 games in the Eastern semis, minimum. But I think we all agree that they still look (Even if they beat the Wizards) at least a player short of a real contender. Obviously, cost is also the key, but I tend to think this would move the needle a little more toward grabbing a guy like Butler if you could, because the Celtics plus Butler and some tuning on the bench (have to assume Brown is gone and one of Crowder/Bradley/Smart) might be the EC favorites as soon as next year.

    That said, there could be a number of teams in play for Butler, it's just something to think about (I know, *again*).
     
  49. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    28,537
    Butler would be a really nice player for Brad's system but I don't want to gut the team to add him. Gordon Hayward would be the perfect addition to this team.
     
  50. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Mrs. Dennis Wideman SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,333
    Are you assuming Brown goes in the Butler trade or are you saying he's gone regardless?
     

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