Girardi Out As Yankee Manager

[JimBoSox9]

In all seriousness, three teams who won 90+ games fired their managers this year. Are expectations just generally too high around the league? I mean, if it ain't broke (or broke just a little bit with a chance to get into the tournament every year)...

The guy was an above average manager, with staying power. I would have kept him.

I honestly think that the Cubs letting Rick Renteria to bring in Maddon (then going on to win it) marked a sea change in how much continuity in the managerial role really matters, compared to seeking an upgrade. If the A-list clubs don't have a skipper who they think is a slam-dunk top 5 in MLB, they're going to hunt an upgrade. The New York Yankees do. Not. Settle. for "above average," and why should they? And if the skipper doesn't have the clubhouse fully behind him, the club's going to pull the trigger on whatever shiny upgrade they've identified this month.

What's really got me thinking, though, is the notion of managerial careers and generational cycles are intertwined, as an ability to connect with Young Millenials seems to be driving a spike in younger first-time managers getting a shot. I have no idea if that spike is factual or perceptual, but it would be super-interesting to see if there's any historical clustering in when first-time managers are hired.

 

[jon abbey]

The guy was an above average manager, with staying power. I would have kept him.

I think that if his contract was not up, they would not have fired him, but a new 3-4 year deal doesn’t really seem to make sense if Cashman has issues with him.

 

[DanoooME]

Based on the "good things come in threes" theory, shouldn't they be hiring someone named Joe next (Torre, Girardi, ?)? Joey Cora? Steal Joe Maddon away from the Cubs? Joe Morgan?

 

[EddieYost]

Based on the "good things come in threes" theory, shouldn't they be hiring someone named Joe next (Torre, Girardi, ?)? Joey Cora? Steal Joe Maddon away from the Cubs? Joe Morgan?

6, 2 and even?

 

[glennhoffmania]

6, 2 and even?

What?

 

[NYCSox]

Based on the "good things come in threes" theory, shouldn't they be hiring someone named Joe next (Torre, Girardi, ?)? Joey Cora? Steal Joe Maddon away from the Cubs? Joe Morgan?

You called?

 

[EddieYost]

What?

Walpole Joe's favorite saying.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Walpole Joe's favorite saying.

I think that was how the Dick Tracy radio show would sign off after every episode.

 

[YTF]

Weren't hirings and firings and the such not supposed to be announce during the World Series?

 

[jon abbey]

Weren't hirings and firings and the such not supposed to be announce during the World Series?

Off days are OK.

 

[terrynever]

Off days are OK.

Yanks haven't announced the firing. Girardi released his own statement.

 

[jon abbey]

Yanks haven't announced the firing. Girardi released his own statement.

Yankees PR Dept.‏Verified account @YankeesPR Oct 26

Today the @yankees announced that Joe Girardi will not return as manager in 2018.

 

[terrynever]

Yankees PR Dept.‏Verified account @YankeesPR Oct 26

Today the @yankees announced that Joe Girardi will not return as manager in 2018.

Joe beat them to it.
How often does the manager announce his own firing? He was pissed when he climbed into his car on Tuesday afternoon.

 

[jon abbey]

As best I can tell, they came out at the same time (?), just after 11 AM yesterday.

Also, it wasn't really a 'firing', his contract was up (I remember making the same point with Torre's departure, heh).

 

[jon abbey]

Heh, Joe Pos with a preemptive answer to my above post in his column today:

"You can go ahead and write in the comments that Washington’s Dusty Baker and New York’s Joe Girardi were not fired. Go ahead, feel free to write it in there, I won’t mind. Baker and Girardi had their contracts run out and were not offered new ones for the 2018 season. So, that’s not technically the same as being fired, or so the line goes.

Of course, I cannot fathom anyone other than maybe Mister Potter from “It’s a Wonderful Life” who thinks that in these cases not offering is somehow different from firing. They were both managers of a team. They both won many more than they lost. They both, by every indication, wanted to stay in the job. They are both out. This wasn’t a case of them negotiating expensive new terms on a contract and thus failing to come to terms. They were booted out the door without any say in the matter. They were FIRED."

 

[cromulence]

That's definitely true for Girardi. Regarding your Torre aside, he actually did push it when came to the contract. I remember being ready for him to leave but mostly indifferent if he'd stayed, then feeling OK with him being gone once that leaked out.

 

[terrynever]

Yeah, when my newspaper bought me out in 2012 for a pretty penny, I still felt like I was fired. They didn't want me anymore. Girardi wanted to stick around but the decision had already been made. Some insiders think Cashman had made up his mind by mid-season, probably during the July slump.

 

[Wingack]

Yeah, when my newspaper bought me out in 2012 for a pretty penny, I still felt like I was fired. They didn't want me anymore. Girardi wanted to stick around but the decision had already been made. Some insiders think Cashman had made up his mind by mid-season, probably during the July slump.

Do we know for sure Girardi wanted to stay?

 

[jon abbey]

I mean, we don't know what terms he would have accepted, and I still think if there was a year left on his deal, he wouldn't have been fired, but from the first sentence of his statement, it seems pretty clear he wanted to stay:

“With a heavy heart, I come to you because the Yankees have decided not to bring me back.”—statement from Joe Girardi

 

[terrynever]

Do we know for sure Girardi wanted to stay?

One of the beat reporters said he was pretty pissed when leaving the Stadium parking lot on Tuesday. I think that indicates he wanted to stay. Girardi and Showalter both went out the same way, except Cashman was just a front office underling in 1995. George whacked Buck. Cashman bounced Girardi. Kind of shows you how much power Cashman has accrued. Not complaining, mind you.

 

[Couperin47]

and tonight's game is probably as good as any example of why they wanted to move on from Joe. No matter how he was pitching, it's almost certain Joe would have ignored that and used his metrics and binders to pull Peacock, run through 2 other arms trying his level best to let them back in and lose the game...because that's how Joe thinks and he's about as flexible as a glove that's been left out in the rain and sun for 10 years.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

He was not perfect. But I usually felt that with him the yankees had some small edge over the Red Sox with Farrell.

 

[jon abbey]

He was not perfect. But I usually felt that with him the yankees had some small edge over the Red Sox with Farrell.

That I think is true, but Cora is the competition now, a very likely upgrade.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

That I think is true, but Cora is the competition now, a very likely upgrade.

I was talking with some buddies at a poker game, all of us Red Sox fans, and we were mildly excited for the possibility that maybe the yankees would screw up this choice and end up downgrading themselves at manager. Are there any stories out about just whom they're considering to replace Giardi?

 

[jon abbey]

and tonight's game is probably as good as any example of why they wanted to move on from Joe. No matter how he was pitching, it's almost certain Joe would have ignored that and used his metrics and binders to pull Peacock, run through 2 other arms trying his level best to let them back in and lose the game...because that's how Joe thinks and he's about as flexible as a glove that's been left out in the rain and sun for 10 years.

There's some truth to that but also Hinch's closer (Giles) has been terrible and his setup guy (Devenski) not too much better, and Peacock was a starter who did not give up a single hit. So maybe not the best example but I kind of agree with the general point, although it seemed like after the White Sox trade, once Girardi had all of those great bullpen options, he used them more creatively and he would probably have been even better next year when he had them all all season.

 

[jon abbey]

I was talking with some buddies at a poker game, all of us Red Sox fans, and we were mildly excited for the possibility that maybe the yankees would screw up this choice and end up downgrading themselves at manager. Are there any stories out about just whom they're considering to replace Giardi?

I'd be way more nervous if it had been Girardi's impetus as was being rumored beforehand, but it was Cashman's call, and I feel confident that he doesn't do it without having a pretty clear idea of what he wants and being close to positive he can get who he wants.

Yes, there are plenty of replacement stories with lists, but they don't seem to have much insight so far. None of the beat guys seemed to have any idea he was not being brought back until it actually happened, so they are all scrambling.

 

[jon abbey]

Ah yes, Joel Sherman comes out and says it in his latest piece:

"I don’t think we have seen the name yet on the initial wave of lists to succeed Girardi."

http://nypost.com/2017/10/27/what-yankees-perfect-manager-looks-like-if-they-can-find-him/

 

[jon abbey]

My favorite idea so far is Curtis Granderson or Raul Ibanez as manager, Kevin Long back as hitting coach (with a big raise), David Cone as pitching coach.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Why Curtis? The guy is still playing baseball and we have no idea what kind of baseball iq he has. He’s a nice guy, so what?

 

[jon abbey]

He is really smart and great at media interaction and everyone seems to love him. He did say he wants to keep playing but being left off the Dodgers WS roster had to be something of a wakeup call. If he ever wanted to be a manager, it's pretty unlikely he'll get a better chance than this, pressure and all.

 

[jon abbey]

But also that's why you hire a talented staff around him.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

and tonight's game is probably as good as any example of why they wanted to move on from Joe. No matter how he was pitching, it's almost certain Joe would have ignored that and used his metrics and binders to pull Peacock, run through 2 other arms trying his level best to let them back in and lose the game...because that's how Joe thinks and he's about as flexible as a glove that's been left out in the rain and sun for 10 years.

I really believe that's how just about all of them think and operate, though. Hinch did what he did more because he doesn't trust anyone in his bullpen than because he's some progressive thinker.

 

[Couperin47]

I really believe that's how just about all of them think and operate, though. Hinch did what he did more because he doesn't trust anyone in his bullpen than because he's some progressive thinker.

I completely agree and I was not comparing Hinch to Joe, that's over. Hinch was terrified to go near anyone else and was willing to ride Peacock as long as it looked even slightly reasonable. With very few exceptions Joe never has or would do that, we'd get, at the very least, Chapman for an inning if he was available, no matter how well the current pitcher was doing.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

My guess: DeMarlo Hale gets this job.

DeMarlo Hale would be a good hire and I'd hate it as a Sox fan.

 

[jon abbey]

Hale is 56, I bet NY hires someone 45 or younger.

 

[jon abbey]

Haven't read it yet, but Ken Rosenthal has an interview up with Girardi, his first since being let go, and it's free for 24 hours:

https://theathletic.com/142232/2017/10/31/qa-with-joe-girardi-how-he-feels-about-being-let-go-by-the-yankees-and-whether-he-will-manage-again/

 

[Murderer's Crow]

This is the only really interesting or new nugget.

Did you speak with (owner) Hal Steinbrenner?

Girardi: I did. I thanked him. I thanked his family for giving me a wonderful opportunity, not just for me, but my family, being a part of this (Yankees) family. He told me I would always be a part of this family. Obviously, we would talk later on if I ever wanted to do something for the organization. I thought that was really nice for him to say that. They want me to still be part of the family.

I have other interests in life. I do want to manage again. Time will tell exactly what I do.

 

[terrynever]

DeMarlo Hale would be a good hire and I'd hate it as a Sox fan.

Just looked over the list of all-time Yankee managers. I don't think any Yankee manager has ever worked or played for the Red Sox prior to his hiring by NY. And in this day and age, a guy like Hale with his Red Sox background would have one strike against him with the fan base, fair or not.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Just looked over the list of all-time Yankee managers. I don't think any Yankee manager has ever worked or played for the Red Sox prior to his hiring by NY. And in this day and age, a guy like Hale with his Red Sox background would have one strike against him with the fan base, fair or not.

Not as a manager, but there are plenty of coaches that have been on both teams. Most recently Tony Pena and Don Zimmer.

It's a weak argument, but at the same time I have no expectation that John Farrell will be the next Yankees manager (not that you're suggesting this). I doubt DeMarlo Hale's previous time with the Red Sox would hurt his true chances in New York. It's far enough removed to be an issue.

 

[gtmtnbiker]

Haven't read it yet, but Ken Rosenthal has an interview up with Girardi, his first since being let go, and it's free for 24 hours:

https://theathletic.com/142232/2017/10/31/qa-with-joe-girardi-how-he-feels-about-being-let-go-by-the-yankees-and-whether-he-will-manage-again/

I just read this since it was part of Alex Speier's 108 Stitches email. I thought the interview was a good, long read.

What do people think of The Athletic site? Is it worth $5/month? I'm hesitant about subscribing to another site since I don't have enough time for my existing subscriptions (NYT, Boston Globe, WSJ, and Washington Post).

 

[jon abbey]

Not as a manager, but there are plenty of coaches that have been on both teams. Most recently Tony Pena and Don Zimmer.

It's a weak argument, but at the same time I have no expectation that John Farrell will be the next Yankees manager (not that you're suggesting this). I doubt DeMarlo Hale's previous time with the Red Sox would hurt his true chances in New York. It's far enough removed to be an issue.

Brian Butterfield was a Yankee coach at one point too.

Actually if I was doing the hiring, I'd consider having worked for the other team a plus, but as I said above, I think Hale is too old for Cashman to seriously consider given what he reportedly seems to be looking for.

 

[terrynever]

Not as a manager, but there are plenty of coaches that have been on both teams. Most recently Tony Pena and Don Zimmer.

It's a weak argument, but at the same time I have no expectation that John Farrell will be the next Yankees manager (not that you're suggesting this). I doubt DeMarlo Hale's previous time with the Red Sox would hurt his true chances in New York. It's far enough removed to be an issue.

Zimmer is a good catch because he was Torre's bench coach and excellent strategy guy. I will always see Tony Pena as a Pittsburgh Pirate in my mind's eye.
Among Boston's list of managers, only Joe McCarthy and Ralph Houk had strong Yankee ties. That's over 115 seasons.