Greened Illusion: Lebron to the Celtics
- Thread starter TripleOT
- Start date
How is creating cap space for a max player nothing? If LeBron is going there, he and fans are going to want the team maxing out top tier talent over the next few years.
They can do it, mathwise. Covington/Fultz/Bayless and the rest of the roster minus Saric and McCollum basically gets them to LeBron’s salary and leaves them with about 32 million in capspace. Philly might decide Covington/Fultz/Bayless is a better bet than George or Boogie, but it can be done.
I can't see Lebron wanting to play with Cousins - not to mention that PHI already has a center and probably has zero interest in Cousins
Windhorst on Kirk and Callahan says that while it's unlikely that LeBron would go to Boston, he wouldn't dismiss it and says the Celtics should reach out.
OK I did not hear it I was just reading tweets people were posting. So was it basically just what his article from Saturday?
Didn’t read the article. It was basically the Lebron insider saying “I don’t know” a dozen times.
He said Boston will call, just like they did last time. Said there are no great options, every one of them has minuses.
His article on Saturday morning just said that for the first time in a LeBron free agency that anything can happen. Family is more of a consideration this time because his kids are older and they will have a say in the matter.
When family is brought into the conversation, that reads to me that he stays in CLE or goes to LAL. Obviously the simple thing is to stay where he currently is so his kids education and social life is not interrupted. Or he goes to LA where his kids won't be the talk of the town and the center of attention in the same way as other cities.
Although LeBron's 13-year old son is already a better basketball player than most of the Ball kids. Half kidding.
I think the Celtics are the best purely basketball fit and he will recognize that in his process. Whatever miniscule chance he actually comes to Boston would be based on that. I think all of the other factors weigh heavily against.
Disagree about BOS being the best fit. It would never happen, but if GSW moved Klay + Iggy, the lineup of Steph, any 2 guard in the league, Lebron, KD, Green would be ridiculous
I don't think he's worth pursuing because it isn't going to happen and it would piss off Kyrie. However, if they do decide to make a pitch, it should just be Brad breaking down film with him without any of the extra shit like trips to Fenway.
Some important parts of the Windhorst article on ESPN from Saturday.
LeBron James said his family and desire to "still want to be in championship mode" will dictate where he'll play next season, but he offered little detail as to when he'll make that decision. Despite whatever assumptions exist, for months James and those closest to him have made it clear that no decision about the future has been made or the choices even fully vetted. There's no well-formulated plan ready to be executed. There are a few issues James will have to work through and probably prioritize. And perhaps he'll have to make some tough compromises.
But something that should be understood when it comes to James this summer: Anything is possible. Repeat: anything. Making assumptions on things he's said in the past, feelings he's had in the past, bad blood, rivalries, weather, anything from the past could be a mistake. James believes he's got a blank check to do what he wants, and perhaps the only thing that's clear about this free agency is that he's not afraid to use it.
Family
James' oldest son, Bronny, is 13. His younger son, Bryce, will turn 11 next week. They will be able to voice their feelings on the decision this time. They have spent time in Miami and Akron and even Los Angeles in the summers. Bronny is a standout basketball player who has a chance at an NBA future, and his development and comfort through his teen years, of course, is important.
James' wife, Savannah, was already a driving force in 2014 when James came home to Akron. James loves watching his sons play basketball. It's hard to see him being apart from his family, which includes 3-year-old daughter Zhuri, at this stage of his life. In 2010, he left Savannah and his young sons in Ohio when he first moved to Miami. Now, where they want to live is a deeper factor.
The case for Cleveland
James has been on the record many times -- including in his coming home letter four years ago -- that he wants to finish his career in Cleveland. That is still the case. But a difficult year for the Cavs has made this a challenging time for James to consider how he wants to spend his final act.
The departure of general manager David Griffin, Kyrie Irving's trade demand and a high-stress season may have shaken James' outlook. A series of mental mistakes during the Finals, namely JR Smith's blunder in Game 1, led James to muse "how do you put together a group of talent but also a group of minds to be able to compete" with the Warriors this week.
The Cavs are capped out and have limited trade assets, and it's unclear how much immediate help their No. 8 pick in the draft can provide. The Boston Celtics and Philadelphia 76ers established themselves this season as the teams of the future in the Eastern Conference, and the Cavs lack a clear path to make up ground. But there remains little to no trust between James and owner Dan Gilbert, and a limited relationship with general manager Koby Altman, who is less than two years older than James.
If there was a foundation there, perhaps James and Gilbert could get together and forge a plan going forward, such as roster moves, what to do with the draft pick or maybe style of play. That has never been how James has operated, however, and that doesn't seem likely to change.
The Cavs can offer James more money and years than anyone else, up to a five-year deal for more than $200 million. But James has signed four contracts with Gilbert in his career and none has been longer than three years. Since coming back four years ago, he has never given more than two. Little trust there.
Last summer, Gilbert requested that James commit long term to the franchise. James did not. Gilbert made an incoming draft pick the centerpiece of the Irving trade, establishing the point that he'd plan for a time after James and not be caught flat-footed the way he was in 2010 when James left. Little trust there.
James' roots in Ohio and his love of playing in front of its fans -- his joyful trots after game-winners this postseason being a strong latest example -- leave all options open.
Still, for James to go to another franchise at this point creates certain risks, and he'd probably have to be convinced the opportunity was worth any lingering fallout were he to depart Cleveland again. Maybe there will be one he likes, maybe there won't, and James will remain with the franchise under terms of his choosing.
Opt in, arrange a trade
If James does choose to move on, he and Gilbert could still do business. James has a player option for next season in his contract for $36 million that he has until June 29 to execute. Because the salary cap has stayed mostly flat since he signed this current deal in 2016, that $36 million number is close to the max salary available to him if he became a free agent.
Never becoming a free agent and instead getting traded would be beneficial to James because the no-trade clause in his contract would carry over to his new team, which would also inherit his full rights. Then he could sign an extension of up to four years with his new team six months after a trade, creating a five-year commitment for more than $200 million if he wanted it.
For the Cavs, this would open the door to getting a return for James and helping them start a rebuild instead of losing him for nothing. For James, though, this would mean he'd have to vocalize that he wanted to be traded away from Cleveland.
For example, the 76ers have significant cap space this summer but not enough to sign James outright to the max. It's possible that if James wanted it and the Cavs found a deal, the 76ers could trade for James and still retain the ability to sign their own free agents like JJ Redick and Amir Johnson, plus have exceptions available to add more talent.
The rules don't allow teams to talk to James before July 1, after his option pickup date. So to execute this type of deal, they'd need a player to recruit him -- which isn't against the rules. James Harden helped lead the Houston Rockets' effort to land Paul last year.
James could also pick up the option and stay with the Cavs for another season and push back locking in his future for a year. At age 33, with the chance for the biggest contract of his career, that would not seem probable. But like these other options, it remains a possibility. It's James' option; the Cavs wouldn't have a say in the matter.
The unrestricted route
Then there's the conventional path, which would be to enter unrestricted free agency and change teams for a third time for a final act. This is the area where much time and effort has been devoted in recent months, namely with the Los Angeles Lakers clearing out salary-cap space over the past year to prepare to pitch James after July 1.
James has made it clear that he only wants to take a max salary of around $36 million and isn't willing to take a pay cut -- like Kevin Durant did with the Golden State Warriors last summer -- to fit on a roster. It's possible those demands could soften, but currently taking that position leaves the pool of suitors for him shallow.
The Lakers can create more than $70 million in space, it is well known, to sign James and another max-level free agent. No other team is in that position. In his past two free agencies, James joined a team with another superstar in residence, and another star came with him. Chris Bosh joined James in coming to Miami with Dwyane Wade in 2010. James joined Irving, and Kevin Lovecame along via trade in the 2014 offseason.
Things change rapidly in the NBA, though. Teams that don't have cap room today could create some if they needed it or felt they could get James. The books are tighter this summer; there isn't as much overall space as there has been in the past three offseasons. That means the cost of offloading contracts will be more expensive and harder than in seasons past.
There are still doors, and that brings other teams into play that might have elaborate plans to acquire James. The Rockets are at the head of this list. It would be a challenge for them to re-sign free agents Paul and Clint Capela andfind a way to add James. But it's not impossible, and general manager Daryl Morey is known for his scheming.
Pile it all together, and what James has is a lot of scenarios, many of them messy. Right now, there's not a sure bet in the bunch. There's a lot on the line; much of the league will revolve around what he does. It's going to take time, it's going to take thought and it might be unpleasant.
Welcome to another LeBron James free agency.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23303509/lebron-james-hit-free-agency-again-anything-possible-nba
LeBron James said his family and desire to "still want to be in championship mode" will dictate where he'll play next season, but he offered little detail as to when he'll make that decision. Despite whatever assumptions exist, for months James and those closest to him have made it clear that no decision about the future has been made or the choices even fully vetted. There's no well-formulated plan ready to be executed. There are a few issues James will have to work through and probably prioritize. And perhaps he'll have to make some tough compromises.
But something that should be understood when it comes to James this summer: Anything is possible. Repeat: anything. Making assumptions on things he's said in the past, feelings he's had in the past, bad blood, rivalries, weather, anything from the past could be a mistake. James believes he's got a blank check to do what he wants, and perhaps the only thing that's clear about this free agency is that he's not afraid to use it.
Family
James' oldest son, Bronny, is 13. His younger son, Bryce, will turn 11 next week. They will be able to voice their feelings on the decision this time. They have spent time in Miami and Akron and even Los Angeles in the summers. Bronny is a standout basketball player who has a chance at an NBA future, and his development and comfort through his teen years, of course, is important.
James' wife, Savannah, was already a driving force in 2014 when James came home to Akron. James loves watching his sons play basketball. It's hard to see him being apart from his family, which includes 3-year-old daughter Zhuri, at this stage of his life. In 2010, he left Savannah and his young sons in Ohio when he first moved to Miami. Now, where they want to live is a deeper factor.
The case for Cleveland
James has been on the record many times -- including in his coming home letter four years ago -- that he wants to finish his career in Cleveland. That is still the case. But a difficult year for the Cavs has made this a challenging time for James to consider how he wants to spend his final act.
The departure of general manager David Griffin, Kyrie Irving's trade demand and a high-stress season may have shaken James' outlook. A series of mental mistakes during the Finals, namely JR Smith's blunder in Game 1, led James to muse "how do you put together a group of talent but also a group of minds to be able to compete" with the Warriors this week.
The Cavs are capped out and have limited trade assets, and it's unclear how much immediate help their No. 8 pick in the draft can provide. The Boston Celtics and Philadelphia 76ers established themselves this season as the teams of the future in the Eastern Conference, and the Cavs lack a clear path to make up ground. But there remains little to no trust between James and owner Dan Gilbert, and a limited relationship with general manager Koby Altman, who is less than two years older than James.
If there was a foundation there, perhaps James and Gilbert could get together and forge a plan going forward, such as roster moves, what to do with the draft pick or maybe style of play. That has never been how James has operated, however, and that doesn't seem likely to change.
The Cavs can offer James more money and years than anyone else, up to a five-year deal for more than $200 million. But James has signed four contracts with Gilbert in his career and none has been longer than three years. Since coming back four years ago, he has never given more than two. Little trust there.
Last summer, Gilbert requested that James commit long term to the franchise. James did not. Gilbert made an incoming draft pick the centerpiece of the Irving trade, establishing the point that he'd plan for a time after James and not be caught flat-footed the way he was in 2010 when James left. Little trust there.
James' roots in Ohio and his love of playing in front of its fans -- his joyful trots after game-winners this postseason being a strong latest example -- leave all options open.
Still, for James to go to another franchise at this point creates certain risks, and he'd probably have to be convinced the opportunity was worth any lingering fallout were he to depart Cleveland again. Maybe there will be one he likes, maybe there won't, and James will remain with the franchise under terms of his choosing.
Opt in, arrange a trade
If James does choose to move on, he and Gilbert could still do business. James has a player option for next season in his contract for $36 million that he has until June 29 to execute. Because the salary cap has stayed mostly flat since he signed this current deal in 2016, that $36 million number is close to the max salary available to him if he became a free agent.
Never becoming a free agent and instead getting traded would be beneficial to James because the no-trade clause in his contract would carry over to his new team, which would also inherit his full rights. Then he could sign an extension of up to four years with his new team six months after a trade, creating a five-year commitment for more than $200 million if he wanted it.
For the Cavs, this would open the door to getting a return for James and helping them start a rebuild instead of losing him for nothing. For James, though, this would mean he'd have to vocalize that he wanted to be traded away from Cleveland.
For example, the 76ers have significant cap space this summer but not enough to sign James outright to the max. It's possible that if James wanted it and the Cavs found a deal, the 76ers could trade for James and still retain the ability to sign their own free agents like JJ Redick and Amir Johnson, plus have exceptions available to add more talent.
The rules don't allow teams to talk to James before July 1, after his option pickup date. So to execute this type of deal, they'd need a player to recruit him -- which isn't against the rules. James Harden helped lead the Houston Rockets' effort to land Paul last year.
James could also pick up the option and stay with the Cavs for another season and push back locking in his future for a year. At age 33, with the chance for the biggest contract of his career, that would not seem probable. But like these other options, it remains a possibility. It's James' option; the Cavs wouldn't have a say in the matter.
The unrestricted route
Then there's the conventional path, which would be to enter unrestricted free agency and change teams for a third time for a final act. This is the area where much time and effort has been devoted in recent months, namely with the Los Angeles Lakers clearing out salary-cap space over the past year to prepare to pitch James after July 1.
James has made it clear that he only wants to take a max salary of around $36 million and isn't willing to take a pay cut -- like Kevin Durant did with the Golden State Warriors last summer -- to fit on a roster. It's possible those demands could soften, but currently taking that position leaves the pool of suitors for him shallow.
The Lakers can create more than $70 million in space, it is well known, to sign James and another max-level free agent. No other team is in that position. In his past two free agencies, James joined a team with another superstar in residence, and another star came with him. Chris Bosh joined James in coming to Miami with Dwyane Wade in 2010. James joined Irving, and Kevin Lovecame along via trade in the 2014 offseason.
Things change rapidly in the NBA, though. Teams that don't have cap room today could create some if they needed it or felt they could get James. The books are tighter this summer; there isn't as much overall space as there has been in the past three offseasons. That means the cost of offloading contracts will be more expensive and harder than in seasons past.
There are still doors, and that brings other teams into play that might have elaborate plans to acquire James. The Rockets are at the head of this list. It would be a challenge for them to re-sign free agents Paul and Clint Capela andfind a way to add James. But it's not impossible, and general manager Daryl Morey is known for his scheming.
Pile it all together, and what James has is a lot of scenarios, many of them messy. Right now, there's not a sure bet in the bunch. There's a lot on the line; much of the league will revolve around what he does. It's going to take time, it's going to take thought and it might be unpleasant.
Welcome to another LeBron James free agency.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23303509/lebron-james-hit-free-agency-again-anything-possible-nba
I don't why this is a problem, the Lakers can say to LeBron "We're the only franchise with real balls..."
More than likely. The one and done rule is going to be revoked meaning that he should be in the NBA in six years.
The Spurs' odd seem very high. I get that Pop and Kawhi are a draw, but they don't have the cap space and they don't have the assets for a sign and trade either. It's an old team, too. Pass.
Funny that the Clippers are on there. Last night I was trying to mentally go through teams that be solid roster fits even if they weren't one of the usual suspects and the Clippers popped out. They have good defenders, shooters, wings who can switch and draft assets to make trades. They're also in a good market with a solid coach and an owner who will spend. Not likely but I see the potential there.
EDIT: After a second look, I think the Spurs could open space if Green and Gay turn down their options.
Funny that the Clippers are on there. Last night I was trying to mentally go through teams that be solid roster fits even if they weren't one of the usual suspects and the Clippers popped out. They have good defenders, shooters, wings who can switch and draft assets to make trades. They're also in a good market with a solid coach and an owner who will spend. Not likely but I see the potential there.
EDIT: After a second look, I think the Spurs could open space if Green and Gay turn down their options.
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I don't see him going to the Lakers unless he has assurance from Chris Paul to join. Paul leaving Houston eliminates one of the threats in the West and leaves only the Warriors to contend with. If Paul stays the Lakers would have to beat Houston and Golden State, not to mention a tough first round opponent like Utah. Just too daunting.
No, they can't. Even if they were able to dump every guy on the roster besides Lebron, Embiid and Simmons and take back zero salaries, they'd be at close to 75M including the cap charges for the empty roster spots.
They'd have to pull off sign and trades for both Lebron and George/Boogie to make it work.
Threading the thinnest of needles there to make that happen.
Not NBA but I saw on internet that Italian basketball legend Dino Meneghin played against his 16-year-old son Andrea in 1990, in a game of the top professional Italian league. He was 40 at the time.
Yes. They are citing BetOnline, but I have 8 online sportsbooks with this prop bet, and all of them have wildly different odds.
Stephen A in SC: “If LeBron is prioritizing winning and beating Golden State as early as next year it’s 1 of 2 teams: Houston or Boston.” When asked if it will upset Kyrie, he says Kyrie wouldn’t be in Boston.
I know the number of posts in this thread beg to differ; but I just don't find all this news and scuttlebut very interesting. I really am not looking to an exhaustive, daily tracking of LeBron's status. I just want to fast forward to the day he announces his decision. Obviously wherever LeBron goes will be a seismic shift in the NBA, but all of this random whispers that change every day just isn't entertaining.
The problem is this shit is all made up by the talking heads.
"The momentum" while LeBron was playing the finals? bullshit. The momentum for LA is based on? Yeah.
Right? What a load of crap. That's not even a believable lie on Cowherd's part.
He was very clear about it. There were several "dots" he "connected."
Ed: I can't really remember them. Something about Chris Paul.
I’m quite certain you could go back into the archives and find my posts arguing that the Clippers, who desperately needed a SF, would be a good fit 8 years ago. I’m not 100% certain of the cap considerations (they would soon after shed Baron Davis to Cleveland for the 1st pick that would luckily become Kyrie), but the starting 5 would have been something like Bledsoe/Gordon/James/Griffin/Jordan, with potentially the same ammo to acquire CP3 a year later.
Was a fun thought then for the same reason it is now: fucking over the Lakers. Although that core would have been pretty legit if they could swing it financially—the core guys were all on rookie deals while Davis and Kaman were clogging the cap.
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Apparently a school source has refuted this, but if true this would be a much more compelling sign than the typical "don't shoot the messenger but a realtor I know has it on good authority that so-and-so just put his house on the market and/or is researching schools in X area" stuff.
This started with Gary Payton saying this to BSO. That was the source. Gary Payton.
The school refuted it and Scottie Pippen's son, who goes there, says he's heard nothing of the sort.
Yes, I’ve already maxed out a few different arb scenarios. But a couple of the books with great odds for specific teams have relatively low max bet limits, so there’s only so much you can do.
You are never gonna get your signal out if you keep improperly accounting for the curvature of the earth.
Sorry it’s not a real fake rumor until someone who looks vaguely like Bronny is spotted at Logan.
I don't know how LAC makes the cap space for Lebron. Austin Rivers is opting into his 12 million dollar deal. Nobody is taking Galinari. The only trade with CLE that works cap wise is if Jordan opts in and is traded with Harris? But not sure CLE does that, and that leaves LAC team as Williams, Rivers, Galinari, Lebron , and Boban? Gross