Isaiah Wynn R1 #23 OT Georgia

RedOctober3829

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POSITIVES

—Played guard before 2017, then he dominated at left tackle.

—Fluid and tough with awesome production in the run game on the left side.

—Smart with enough athleticism to reach defenders outside his zone. Takes good angles and uses his athleticism well.

—Arms are long enough (33 ⅜") despite having a 6'3" frame.

—Powerful at the point of attack; can handle defenders with his combination of length and power.

—Technique is solid with accurate hand punches and good timing.

—Best in pass protection where his length and athleticism are hard to shake.

NEGATIVES

—Short and a tad small, which is why he's projected to play guard.

—Hands measured at just 8 ½".

—Will need to improve his lower-body power to better absorb NFL power-rushers.

—Hips looked a little stiff on tape.

OVERALL

If Isaiah Wynn were 6'5", we'd be talking about him as the first tackle off the board. Instead, he'll likely be a late first-rounder and will see a move to guard. He still projects as a possible Pro Bowl-caliber player on the interior, with some teams seeing him as a center.



GRADE: 6.99 (Round 2)

PRO PLAYER COMPARISON: Shaq Mason, New England Patriots

 

soxhop411

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Via dawgnation/PFF
Wynn gave up four sacks, two hits and 20 quarterback hurries in 1,104 pass-blocking snaps at both guard and tackle since 2014.
 

Ed Hillel

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I'm sure they'll list him as OL, but I suspect/hope the Patriots expect him to play tackle ultimately.
Well, they have a Tackle this year and Garcia next year potentially if he doesn’t die again. I think BB loves versatility and we’ll see where it goes.
 

DJnVa

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23. New England Patriots – Isaiah Wynn, OL, Georgia

Wynn is my #11 overall player, but will he play tackle in New England. I think his peak as a player is more likely to be achieved at guard, but I could definitely see him being a very solid tackle in the Patriots scheme. His drive-catch out of his stance is explosive, and Wynn is the best technician in the draft at his position.
https://www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-first-round-live-pick-by-pick-analysis/
 

Reverend

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When he says "best technician in the draft at his position," do we think the writer means Guard or Tackle?
If I know Ledyard, he's talking engineer/physics. Fundamentals.

It sounds to me like a guy Scar thinks he can mold. But that's without looking further into the matter, but Ledyard's into that "stuff."
 

mascho

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When he says "best technician in the draft at his position," do we think the writer means Guard or Tackle?
I just asked Ledyard this question and his response:

offensive line Mark. anywhere. I think he's a better technician than Nelson even tbh, just lacks the elite traits
and Nelson is still damn good technician

Better technician than Nelson is pretty high praise.

I'm a huge fan of this pick. Have loved Wynn since the Senior Bowl, thought the way he handled playing guard that week spoke volumes about his potential. Duke Manyweather, Dan Hatman and others have been telling me he can still play OT in the NFL, so I'd imagine he starts out there, but a guy who can give you a boost at 4 of the 5 offensive line positions is a nice get.
 

SMU_Sox

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Brandon Thorn loves the pick. He's an O-Line specialist analyst for NDT Scouting.

My favorite pick of the first-round, pairing the most versatile, technically refined OL in the class (outside of Nelson) with perhaps the best OL coach in the business in Dante Scarnecchia. Wynn was my 3rd overall OL and 2nd rated guard in the draft, although I have a sneaking suspicion Wynn will get a crack at remaining at the position he dominated the competition at in 2017, left tackle.

Regardless of where New England decides to start Wynn out on the OL, they snagged a player who can upgrade any position on their line, with a diverse skill-set that will allow their blocking schemes to remain multiple and unpredictable.The Patriots wound up hanging tight at pick 23 and coming away with an upgrade at a premier position (LT) if they want it, or a potential All-Pro on the interior as an alternative. This is a steal for the Patriots and a move more of us should have seen as a possibility.
The more I digest these picks the more I like them. Now to shore up the defense!
 

Reverend

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Brandon Thorn loves the pick. He's an O-Line specialist analyst for NDT Scouting.



The more I digest these picks the more I like them. Now to shore up the defense!
It bears mentioning that Ledyard is a huge Steelers fan. His, "Oh, how could we not have seen this before?" reaction pleases me.
 

SMU_Sox

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It bears mentioning that Ledyard is a huge Steelers fan. His, "Oh, how could we not have seen this before?" reaction pleases me.
Yeah. So funny thing about Ledyard. On his podcast, LockedonNFLDraft, he was talking some time ago (past two weeks I think) about the Steelers and taking terrible safeties who tested well way too early. I think he even said if the Steelers do that this year it will be Terrell Edmunds. We got his #8 and #11 guy at #23 and #31. He loves Sony too. His film grade on Sony was higher than Barkley. I can't wait to listen tomorrow.
 

bakahump

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So the height thing.
Height equals long arms. Long arms allows more "give" when dealing with DLs who are trying to get into the OLs body.
But height also raises center of gravity.
So Wynn who has relatively long arms for someone 6'3" (33 3/8) might be a really good compromise.
Long enough arms to keep DLs at bay but lower CoG to maintain better balance.

I suppose being short could hurt on his kick outs (legs are not as long so striding sideways would not cover as much ground as Kolton Miller or Solder for instance).
 

Marciano490

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So the height thing.
Height equals long arms. Long arms allows more "give" when dealing with DLs who are trying to get into the OLs body.
But height also raises center of gravity.
So Wynn who has relatively long arms for someone 6'3" (33 3/8) might be a really good compromise.
Long enough arms to keep DLs at bay but lower CoG to maintain better balance.

I suppose being short could hurt on his kick outs (legs are not as long so striding sideways would not cover as much ground as Kolton Miller or Solder for instance).
Just thinking from a leverage/powerlifting perspective though, don’t short arms allow a better transfer of power and wouldn’t there be and advantage to that as well?
 

sodenj5

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It's so funny looking at the Patriots draft room with about 7 people in it and then you see teams like the Cowboys that have about 100 people standing around.
The clip they kept showing of Jerry seated at the head of the table surrounded by like 25 people felt very... cultish.
 

DJnVa

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I just asked Ledyard this question and his response:

offensive line Mark. anywhere. I think he's a better technician than Nelson even tbh, just lacks the elite traits
and Nelson is still damn good technician

Better technician than Nelson is pretty high praise.

I'm a huge fan of this pick. Have loved Wynn since the Senior Bowl, thought the way he handled playing guard that week spoke volumes about his potential. Duke Manyweather, Dan Hatman and others have been telling me he can still play OT in the NFL, so I'd imagine he starts out there, but a guy who can give you a boost at 4 of the 5 offensive line positions is a nice get.

One thing to keep in mind about Ledyard is that his take on the Browns yesterday was “they nailed it”. So he’s definitely contrary to popular opinion.
 

bakahump

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Just thinking from a leverage/powerlifting perspective though, don’t short arms allow a better transfer of power and wouldn’t there be and advantage to that as well?
I am certainly no expert, but i think we are talking different actions.
Power lifting the short arms are good because you dont have to move the bar as far with the same muscle mass (assuming they are equal).
In Football Blocking (pass blocking anyway) the more you can absorb the energy of the DL the better off you are. I think of arms of a LT as shock absorbers. They are not meant to lift or Push a guy as much as absorb his momentum . Giving up space (the length of the arms) while applying resistance to the mass moving toward them. If you can stalemate that initial shock you can essentially create a stalemate between the 2 300+lb men. And again you only need that stalemate for 3-4 seconds.

Run blocking would actually reverse the process. During a run block its important for the DL to stunt the OL from impacting and "getting inside" them. Holding the OL at Bay allows the DL to disengage easier and free themselves for a tackle. Hence why a DL with Long arms is good too.

But I welcome those more informed to correct me if I am wrong.
 

Marciano490

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I am certainly no expert, but i think we are talking different actions.
Power lifting the short arms are good because you dont have to move the bar as far with the same muscle mass (assuming they are equal).
In Football Blocking (pass blocking anyway) the more you can absorb the energy of the DL the better off you are. I think of arms of a LT as shock absorbers. They are not meant to lift or Push a guy as much as absorb his momentum . Giving up space (the length of the arms) while applying resistance to the mass moving toward them. If you can stalemate that initial shock you can essentially create a stalemate between the 2 300+lb men. And again you only need that stalemate for 3-4 seconds.

Run blocking would actually reverse the process. During a run block its important for the DL to stunt the OL from impacting and "getting inside" them. Holding the OL at Bay allows the DL to disengage easier and free themselves for a tackle. Hence why a DL with Long arms is good too.

But I welcome those more informed to correct me if I am wrong.
That makes sense, but, again, arms are a bit of a weak lever. Wouldn’t shorter, thicker arms be better at absorbing shock because they’re closer to the center of mass and then exerting force for the same reason?
 

bakahump

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Engineering wise you make sense. But draft measurables seem to favor the longer arms. So not being an engineer or understanding all the physics involved, I had sort of developed the idea of my explanation to account for the longer arm preference. Again I could be all wet. But teams do seem to prefer longer arms.

What I am really at a loss about is why teams prefer taller OL (tackles mostly). To me that would seem counter intuitive. Taller guys would have a higher CoG which seems bad. Plus visibility seems important for a QB. Having a bunch of 6'7+ guys in front is great but if the QB cant see over them Might it be better to have some 6'4 guys?
Again all things being equal (strength, technique etc).

Maybe its as simple as that. Larger humans are usually stronger :confused: . So the default is to draft bigger taller. A taller guy could bulk up more (say 10 lbs) under the theory it wont affect their agility as much as shorter guys bulking up. Eventually a shorter guy reaches "Critical Panda Mass" (I hit it at about 40yo). Maybe a taller guy can "take more weight" before hitting that point.
Bigger people have longer arms and bigger hands. So we measure those and use those to decide "He's Bigger". LOL
 

Super Nomario

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Engineering wise you make sense. But draft measurables seem to favor the longer arms. So not being an engineer or understanding all the physics involved, I had sort of developed the idea of my explanation to account for the longer arm preference. Again I could be all wet. But teams do seem to prefer longer arms.

What I am really at a loss about is why teams prefer taller OL (tackles mostly). To me that would seem counter intuitive. Taller guys would have a higher CoG which seems bad. Plus visibility seems important for a QB. Having a bunch of 6'7+ guys in front is great but if the QB cant see over them Might it be better to have some 6'4 guys?
Again all things being equal (strength, technique etc).

Maybe its as simple as that. Larger humans are usually stronger :confused: . So the default is to draft bigger taller. A taller guy could bulk up more (say 10 lbs) under the theory it wont affect their agility as much as shorter guys bulking up. Eventually a shorter guy reaches "Critical Panda Mass" (I hit it at about 40yo). Maybe a taller guy can "take more weight" before hitting that point.
Bigger people have longer arms and bigger hands.
So we measure those and use those to decide "He's Bigger". LOL
I think this is it. It's hard to have a 6'2" person carry 320 pounds with an athletic build, but a 6'8" person can. And the 6'8" person is generally going to have longer arms than the 6'2" person.

As for arm length, I think (and this is not my area of expertise) it plays less a factor in the "shock absorber" way you describe and more when the defensive player is moving perpendicular to the OL. In the pass rush, you often see a DE use a speed move outside and get past the OT - only to see the OT reach out and push the DE so he can't quite turn the corner and get the QB. This is especially effective with Brady because he's so good at stepping up to avoid pass rush. You also see arms come to play in a run game with reach blocks or combo blocks, where the OL has to quickly move to get a hand on a DL who starts the play aligned to the side the OL is moving towards (so the left tackle might have to quickly get to the right side of the player lined up to his right). In both these cases, footwork can compensate for arm length and is arguably more important. Arm length also plays into executing and combating pass rush moves, such as the swim or the rip.
 

bakahump

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Makes sense. Good discussion guys.

I think this still bodes well for Wynn as he has relatively long arms despite 3 inches shorter then "most tackles".
So if he is pretty close arms wise, and if is "technically one of the best" as some scouts have said, which I will take as strong footwork, then he should be able to stay at tackle.

I wonder if the main reason they have "traditionally" drafted big huge guys is the old adage "you cant teach height".
Dante can probably take an ok but large NCAA OL and make them into a decent NFL OL. He might be more hesitant that he could take a good but smaller NCAA OL and get them to produce in he NFL. (see Vollmer and Stephan Neal as examples)

Wynns technique may have convinced Dante and BB that despite not quite there measurables, he is good enough to succeed at tackle.

Or maybe considering the other moves (SF trade) they plan to use him as an elite OG. We all have seen how important stopping the pocket from being collapsed up the middle is.
 

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The reason they want tall tackles is that those guys usually have long arms. It's long arms they are looking for and they find it with tall guys. The ideal tackle is probably what you guys have described, a bit shorter with a low CG, excellent feet, and long arms on that frame. Wynn pretty much fits that bill. His arms aren't above average for a tackle, but they are above average for a guy with his frame, and if he sticks at tackle, that is likely why.
 

dbn

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I just watched the video from the OP, and I don't think the opponent he was blocking made a single play all game, and that was the Alabama defense. Count me amongst the impressed.
 

SMU_Sox

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It is PFF so take it with a grain of salt but,


The Patriots select Isaiah Wynn, who allowed just five pressures in 2017, and only 26 in his 2,609 collegiate snaps

He played as a guard in his two years before playing LT in 2017. He was the #1 rated tackle in the SEC in 2017 by PFF for pass blocking efficiency. They project him at guard, have him the 2nd ranked guard and 16th overall prospect. Just one more perspective on Wynn.

Seems like it is safe to say the consensus is we got a hell of a football player.
 

ehaz

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I wouldn’t be surprised if all the reports of him being as good a pass protector/technician as Nelson isn’t just hype. Nelson was, after all, rated better as a run blocker than a pass protector by many scouts.
 

Oppo

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Solid, versatile OL with the 5th year option seems like a nice solid pick.
 

BusRaker

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This is from PFF via NESN twitter. Ouch!

Here are the pass-blocking grades for every Patriots offensive lineman:

Mike Onwenu: 88.9
David Andrews: 75.1
Cole Strange: 74.2
Marcus Cannon: 64.5
Trent Brown: 63.5
Isaiah Wynn: 5.0
 

Seels

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He should be benched, or maybe just cut. I don't remember a time in recent years that a guy was consistently the worst guy on the field. He's been terrible in every way.