Jacksonity......or the Knick thread

Murderer's Crow

Murderer's Crow

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I understand why everyone shits on the Knicks, I do it all the time. But I don't understand why this can be considered a bad move or why people are critical of it. The worst case scenario is that the Knicks are who they are today, but Phil can't do anything except help. 
 
It just seems that everyone is using this possible move as another reason to vent about the Knicks ownership.
 
jon abbey

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crow216 said:
I understand why everyone shits on the Knicks, I do it all the time. But I don't understand why this can be considered a bad move or why people are critical of it. The worst case scenario is that the Knicks are who they are today, but Phil can't do anything except help. 
 
It just seems that everyone is using this possible move as another reason to vent about the Knicks ownership.
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Well, Woj said it better than I ever could, but two main reasons: 1) Dolan will never not be involved and he is a world-class idiot and 2) Phil Jackson has never shown any ability to do the job they're trying to hire him for. That doesn't mean he can't do it, but there's no reason to think he can either. 
 
So, a bad move? Not exactly maybe, but in all likelihood if it happens (which I still highly doubt), it will be in large part a PR move to try to get people to keep buying overpriced tickets for a shitty shitty team.
 
Sox and Rocks

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Oh, and also, New York is an attractive market for a basketball junkie, obviously, but the fact that the Knicks don't have a first rounder and will either have Melo and no cap room or no Melo and some cap room without anyone to use it on makes the situation quite difficult, as others have pointed out.  
 
I can see why, generally speaking, the Knicks would intrigue Jackson, but not the current situation.  
 
ifmanis5

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Sox and Rocks said:
If he takes it, it's only a matter of time before he becomes the coach, too, right?  
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Of course he's not going to coach. ESPN reporting the deal is pretty much done with announcement to come next week.
 
jon abbey

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Love Seth Rosenthal:

"The Knicks are in a desert. The Knicks have a bottle of water. They dump the water in the sand because fuck the water. They become thirsty. Luckily, there is an oasis with more water. But fuck the water. The Knicks insist on having champagne airlifted in from thousands of miles away even though champagne is extremely expensive and might not last the trip intact and might make them drunk and disoriented and doesn't necessarily even quench thirst. This is how this feels to me. Any other team drinks water when it's thirsty. The Knicks won't do that. They refuse to behave like a normal team."
 
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/3/11/5487526/this-phil-jackson-thing-is-really-frustrating
 
B

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So as long as Dolan owns the team, is there a better alternative than Jackson?  Would Knicks fans rather see the return of Isiah Thomas? 
 
Dahabenzapple2

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jon abbey said:
Love Seth Rosenthal:

"The Knicks are in a desert. The Knicks have a bottle of water. They dump the water in the sand because fuck the water. They become thirsty. Luckily, there is an oasis with more water. But fuck the water. The Knicks insist on having champagne airlifted in from thousands of miles away even though champagne is extremely expensive and might not last the trip intact and might make them drunk and disoriented and doesn't necessarily even quench thirst. This is how this feels to me. Any other team drinks water when it's thirsty. The Knicks won't do that. They refuse to behave like a normal team."
 
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/3/11/5487526/this-phil-jackson-thing-is-really-frustrating
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maybe being a Knicks fan might be as bad as being a Red Sox fan in the 50's.
 
or a Celtics fan in the 90's which I kinda was until I lost hope
 
jon abbey

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Brickowski said:
So as long as Dolan owns the team, is there a better alternative than Jackson?  Would Knicks fans rather see the return of Isiah Thomas? 
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Well, yes, a real GM like Presti or Morey would be infinitely better, but honestly IMO nothing else matters while Dolan still owns the team, seriously. This is a guy who just in the last nine months or so pushed through a deal for Bargnani while vetoing a later separate deal for Kyle Lowry. 
 
jon abbey

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Press conference is Tuesday at 11 AM, very curious to see what terms he got Dolan to agree to. 
 
ifmanis5

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It's official. Phil is the Prez. And Melo wants out, according to SAS.
 
"I was told this last week, I was told a few days ago, I had it reiterated to me by somebody I trust yet again this morning, that Carmelo Anthony is gone, he is leaving New York city," Smith said on ESPN's First Take. "And he is gone because he's at the mindset that in order to achieve any amount of success he would had to sacrifice not just this this year but next year as well, because of this current roster."
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Kliq

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It killed me to hear that  Melo said he would change the way he plays if Phil tells him it will help them win. Does he not listen to Mike Woodson, or George Karl, or anyone else that was telling him that he shouldn't shoot 100 more shots than the second closest person in the league? Why does he have to hear it from Phil to believe it? Does he only listen to guys with a fistful of rings?
 
As for Carmelo anything leaving, if I'm the Knicks, I'm not that worried about it. Sure, the fans might be disappointed that NY is taking steps backwards without ever really going forward, but who really cares? The Knicks have sucked for a majority of the last 15 years and the fans are still there. They are not going anywhere.
 
ifmanis5

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Gotta love Melo. It's always someone else's fault and holding teams/coaches/fans/cities hostage to his whims are of no concern. I hope he ends up in Charlotte.
 
jon abbey

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So if you're Phil, the clear plan to start is to try to get Melo to stay for a bit under the max (or even to not opt out at all) and try to recruit LeBron in summer 2015, right? That is Melo's best bet for a title certainly, assuming LeBron has at least a few more MVP type years left in him. 
 
Also, how does the NBA allow the Knicks' president and the Lakers' president to be engaged to each other? How is that not a conflict of interest?
 
jon abbey

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Answering my own question, still a little dubious but makes a bit more sense at least:
 
"Buss wished Jackson well in New York, though not at the Lakers' expense. She told McDonald that she'd met with NBA commissioner Adam Silver on Monday night, during which they discussed the potential for a conflict of interest now that Buss' significant other is in a position of power with another franchise. "I don't anticipate any problem," Buss explained, "because I don't make the basketball decisions on behalf of the Lakers." Buss works exclusively on the business and marketing side of the organization, and serves as the team's representative on the NBA's Board of Governors. Her brother, executive vice president of player personnel Jim Buss, is the one who handles matters on the basketball end.""
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1997833-jeanie-buss-on-lakers-front-office-accountability-the-buck-stops-with-me
 
ElUno20

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I kind of feel like he's going to let Melo walk and completely start over. It would put pressure on the lakers to sign him and eat up their cap, leaving ny in the prime position for 2015
 
jon abbey

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All the reports are that if Melo leaves, it will be for Chicago or Houston, not the Lakers. 
 
jon abbey

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A hard to believe stat: Mike Woodson is now 45-16 in March and April as the Knicks coach (7-2 this year so far, 20-8 last year, 18-6 after taking over for D'Antoni the year before).
 
Too bad for him it's almost certainly not going to be enough to get them into the playoffs. They have 14 games left, the next 4 are all very winnable (@PHI, CLE, @LAL, @SAC), but then 9 of the last 10 are against playoff teams. They don't do well on the tiebreakers either, they probably need to go something like 12-2 from here to have a good chance of the #8 spot.
 
ElUno20

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jon abbey said:
All the reports are that if Melo leaves, it will be for Chicago or Houston, not the Lakers. 
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Either way, does anyone really think Phil Jackson is stupid enough to tie himself to Carmelo Anthony for another five years?
 
ElUno20

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I mean 12 mill a year and you basically get the first two as throwaway years. Why not?
 
Tony C

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ElUno20 said:
Either way, does anyone really think Phil Jackson is stupid enough to tie himself to Carmelo Anthony for another five years?
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I'm the last thing from a Melo fan and have always thought he's a destructive player, but he is a great scorer and quite talented. I could see Jackson deciding, one, that he doesn't have any better alternatives and that, two (and more importantly), he could construct a system (er..excuse me, a "culture"...a fucking eco-system) and convince Melo to buy into it in which Melo could be a Kobe like scorer but in a way that co-exists/complements the talents of other players.
 
That's obviously going to be Jackson's Plan A for public consumption, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's his actual position, too. I mean...it's not like the Knicks have a ton of options.
 
Devizier

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Why wouldn't Jackson go with Anthony? He's in many ways comparable to Paul Pierce at the same age. If the Knicks can assemble the right talent around him, they could be great. The problem isn't Anthony, it's almost everyone else on the roster. Unfortunately for the Knicks, no one is going to trade for their garbage. The Knicks should want to keep Anthony, and I'm sure they would if they could.
 
Kliq

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I know obviously it was one game, but this why I am just not a big fan of Carmelo. What other top 10-15 player could lose by 30 to a team led by Xavier Henry?
 
jon abbey

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Literally a new low, the most points NY has ever given up in a quarter and the most points the Lakers have ever scored in a quarter. 
 
EVER, IN HISTORY. Such a fitting way for NY to demolish the tiny flicker of hope they had created the previous few weeks. 
 
jon abbey

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12-3 in the last month, but they lose the tiebreaker and their last six games are all against playoff teams. Nice wins against GS and the Nets, though. 
 
Stu Nahan

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Tonight's loss puts them in a tough spot, especially with a game against Miami on Sunday. That becomes pretty much a must win.
 
Nick Kaufman

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The problem has always been roster construction. I can see the move as Jackson installing one of his own, not as solving one of the problems the Knicks face.
 
Tony C

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BigSoxFan said:
A rookie GM who used to be a coach and a rookie coach who used to be a GM. What could possibly go wrong in this scenario...?
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Both seem like really solid moves to me -- it's not like either guy is inexperienced. Kerr as Jackson's first move confirms Dolan's wisdom (I just wanted to type "Dolan's wisdom" for the sheer novelty of it -- has that phrase ever been used before?) in hiring Jackson. Long, long, loooong way to go from there, though.
 
If they do end up hiring Kerr, it'll be interesting to track his working relationship with Jackson. Given Jackson's coaching experience and Kerr's front office experience, they could either really complement each other or get into each others' business.
 
Tony C

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i have no idea who she is....nor who the doofus is who started out the segment, but man alive did she school both of those guys.
 
jon abbey

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Tony C said:
i have no idea who she is....nor who the doofus is who started out the segment, but man alive did she school both of those guys.
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Seriously? These shows are all worthless, but given the original question, he was right and she came off as a white female Stephen A Smith. Also I hate you guys for making me sit through that. 
 
Tony C

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huh? He was right that, amid one of the epically great first rounds in my memory, anyone outside the 212 area code cares about whether or not the Knicks are gnashing their teeth about not making the playoffs? No. He's not right, no one gives a shit.
 
What was particularly lame was his comeback that it's a story because Phil Jackson was hired -- i.e, the guy who was hired because the Knicks knew (finally!) that they're a disaster that needs to be rebuilt makes that disaster of a team a story in regard to this year's playoffs...the year during which Dolan finally realized he was on a hopeless path. Seriously?  That's just epic stupidity.
 
 
 
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