Julian Edelman Watch: BurgerTyme Closed for Business

BigSoxFan

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I'm talking myself off the ledge by the fact that we won a SB without Gronk. Now, we have Gronk (at least for now) and replaced Edelman with Cooks, which is at least a wash unless Cooks goes full Ocho. Running game is also more dynamic. On defense, Gilmore should improve the secondary and Harris is another expected impact player we didn't have.

However, I was really looking forward to seeing Edelman and Cooks driving secondaries mad as Gronk gets loose up the seam. Just sucks.
 

CreedBratton

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I'm talking myself off the ledge by the fact that we won a SB without Gronk. Now, we have Gronk (at least for now) and replaced Edelman with Cooks, which is at least a wash unless Cooks goes full Ocho. Running game is also more dynamic. On defense, Gilmore should improve the secondary and Harris is another expected impact player we didn't have.

However, I was really looking forward to seeing Edelman and Cooks driving secondaries mad as Gronk gets loose up the seam. Just sucks.
Same here! Gronk Cooks Jules would have been amazing to watch and impossible to stop!
 

H78

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I've read some recent news that Victor Cruz is buried on the Bears depth chart. Might he be a replacement possibility? He has played in the slot.
I just learned that Cruz has 303 career receptions. I realize he's been plagued with injuries but I had no idea his career production has been so abysmal.
 

DJnVa

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No need to bring in new guy this late. Amendola has Brady's trust.
 

Dogman

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Amendola, Cooks, Hogan, Mitchell, Carr is still a pretty solid corps and we know the first 4 are certainly on Brady's trust side as pointed out.

The injury sucks though.
 

BigSoxFan

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No need to bring in new guy this late. Amendola has Brady's trust.
And Cruz is simply done. Would rather give a young guy a shot. But for now it's:

Cooks
Hogan
Amendola
Mitchell
Rookie

So, we just went from insanely deep to simply very good. The real pain point for this offense comes if Cooks or Gronk goes down. Then, it's 2015 all over again.
 

H78

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The real pain point for this offense comes if Cooks or Gronk goes down. Then, it's 2015 all over again.
Even then...the receiving corps would still be better than 2015. If Gronk gets hurt, Cooks, Dola, Hogan, Allen, and Mitchell with RBs sometimes lining up in the slot is a better receiving corps than probably 80% of the league has, if not more.

In 2015 Slater was our deep threat come to AFCCG and he's not even on the list above.

The other thing is our defense should be pretty damn good, too.
 

Soxy

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Amendola, Cooks, Hogan, Mitchell, Carr is still a pretty solid corps and we know the first 4 are certainly on Brady's trust side as pointed out.

The injury sucks though.
Yeah, the WR position is arguably the deepest it's ever been in Brady's career. And this offense is so loaded at the skill positions that if ever there was a point in time where a team could suffer an injury like this, it's probably now. None of that is to diminish Edelman's impact on the field but the Pats have myriad options to scheme over and around this injury.

When Edelman broke his foot in week 10 in 2015, that left the receiving corp with LaFell, Amendola, and Keshawn Martin (remember him?) as their top wideouts down the stretch. Unsurprisingly, the offense suffered as a result (though it went from being kind of unstoppable to merely very good; they were still a capable offense, though they had some struggles).

Post-Edelman 2017, the Pats simply go from "embarrassment of riches" at the position to having plenty of very good options. Obviously Amendola and Mitchell are injury risks themselves (and Mitchell is already hurt) but Cooks and Hogan are a pretty solid 1-2 punch on their own. Even if Amendola and Mitchell both went down as well, they would still, on paper, have a better offense than the 2015 team that made the AFC Championship Game and came a 2-pt try short of making the Super Bowl. And that 2015 team's O-line was decimated by injuries as well.

Let that sink in: they could lose two more WR's to injury and still have a better receiving corps in place than what they had in 2015 when Edelman went down and missed the last 7 games of the regular season.

This team is positively loaded on offense.

Edit: Ha, was typing this up as H78 made the same point right above me.
 

H78

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Yeah, the WR position is arguably the deepest it's ever been in Brady's career. And this offense is so loaded at the skill positions that if ever there was a point in time where a team could suffer an injury like this, it's probably now. None of that is to diminish Edelman's impact on the field but the Pats have myriad options to scheme over and around this injury.

When Edelman broke his foot in week 10 in 2015, that left the receiving corp with LaFell, Amendola, and Keshawn Martin (remember him?) as their top wideouts down the stretch. Unsurprisingly, the offense suffered as a result (though it went from being kind of unstoppable to merely very good; they were still a capable offense, though they had some struggles).

Post-Edelman 2017, the Pats simply go from "embarrassment of riches" at the position to having plenty of very good options. Obviously Amendola and Mitchell are injury risks themselves (and Mitchell is already hurt) but Cooks and Hogan are a pretty solid 1-2 punch on their own. Even if Amendola and Mitchell both went down as well, they would still, on paper, have a better offense than the 2015 team that made the AFC Championship Game and came a 2-pt try short of making the Super Bowl. And that 2015 team's O-line was decimated by injuries as well.

Let that sink in: they could lose two more WR's to injury and still have a better receiving corps in place than what they had in 2015 when Edelman went down and missed the last 7 games of the regular season.

This team is positively loaded on offense.

Edit: Ha, was typing this up as H78 made the same point right above me.
And that doesn't even go into the receiving depth at running back. Lewis, White, and Burkhead are all very capable, if not excellent, receiving backs.

As you mentioned, this offense is absurdly loaded. Jules is a huge loss, but they can probably make a lot of his production up.

With all of that said, imagine if Carr is the real deal, too?
 

tims4wins

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In 2015 they had Asante Cleveland, Scott Chandler, and Chris Harper getting significant snaps. That won't happen in 2017 unless a bunch of guys go down
 

bankshot1

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Fuck.

Well they are deep at WR, but Fuck.

and he is Brady's secuirty blanket. Fuck

Does anyone make that ridiculous catch in the SB?

I really liked Jules.

Jewish guys shouldn't play games on the sabbath.

Friday night lights are for the table not the field.

FUCK
 

Reggie's Racquet

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Not panicking here but Carr is an unknown commodity and Dola always gets hurt during the season. Mitchell is now hurt...Brady is 40.

If The Saints are still enamoured with Butler how about Malcolm for Willie Snead? In an article I recently read Snead was ranked in the top five for slots receivers in the NFL. He's young, 24 and great insurance if Jules never makes it back.
 

E5 Yaz

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Not panicking here but Carr is an unknown commodity and Dola always gets hurt during the season. Mitchell is now hurt...Brady is 40.

If The Saints are still enamoured with Butler how about Malcolm for Willie Snead? In an article I recently read Snead was ranked in the top five for slots receivers in the NFL.
There are about to be dozens of wide receivers who don't make NFL rosters but might fit into the Patriots system. Let's see what comes available before making any panic-trades
 

PedroKsBambino

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I'd be pretty surprised if they spent any assets to backfill for Edelman---I think Carr or Lucien making the roster is most likely, and if they lose another WR they'll assess what's out there, degree to which the RBs are providing sufficient options, and possibly adding a move TE to play a pseudo-slot receiver role. But there's a bunch of positions where they might need a move if they lose a key guy, not just WR---edge, tackle, arguably inside LB...
 

Reverend

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It will be interesting to see how, if at all, Jules alters his role on the team.

I'm thinking how Mayo transformed himself into a different kind of leader and coach so that he could continue contributing to the team and, ultimately, the championship. This team has quite a culture and we know that Jules is all in on it--I'd love to see him take this opportunity to grow in new ways; it's one of the things I think a lot of us love about this team even more than some of our other rooting interests.
 

RedOctober3829

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I'm not being a homer here, but it's pretty evident the offense will be good enough to win a title without Edelman. The embarrassment of riches is still deep. Josh will create mismatches with the personnel he has. Amendola stepped up in 2015 when Edelman broke his foot and he will again. The backfield is the deepest it's ever been. Brandin Cooks adds a speed element they haven't had in years. It opens up a spot on the depth chart for an unproven Lucien or Carr to see what they have. The O-line, provided Solder is ready, is as good as it's been in a long time.

Jules is the epitome of what's great about sports. He's self made and has worked for everything he's got not relying on pure ability. Hope he comes back even stronger for 2018.
 

dcmissle

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It's not homerism, but the implicit assumption -- that the injury ticket has been punched, and we're good -- is a tad optimistic.

I don't breathe easily until week 17 closes. A good case can be made that any playoff prognostications before week 12 or so are a complete waste of time. We know who to count out; but every team on the in list is hanging by the injury thread.

It sucks the extent to which this now is a game of attrition.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Not panicking here but Carr is an unknown commodity and Dola always gets hurt during the season. Mitchell is now hurt...Brady is 40.

If The Saints are still enamoured with Butler how about Malcolm for Willie Snead? In an article I recently read Snead was ranked in the top five for slots receivers in the NFL. He's young, 24 and great insurance if Jules never makes it back.
Butler is far more valuable to the title hopes of this team than making sure the 3rd receiving option is secure (I'd argue between the collection of receivers including those out of the back, it's not a massive concern).
 

8slim

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Man, I hate preseason football so damn much. I guess it's necessary, and injuries like this can happen at any time, but it just sucks to see a guy lose a season getting hurt in a stupid game in August.

The Pats O will ultimately be fine. Hope Jules recovers quickly and we see him at full strength next fall.
 

Ed Hillel

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This injury sucks a lot, but truth is that Edelman is getting up there in age (along with Amendola) and this is as good a spot as any for someone else to step up for the future. A 40-50 catch season for Carr or Lucien would be a big step forward to address the long-term solution at the position.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I was just listening to one of the beat guys on the radio, and he said he just saw Jules yesterday coming out of the shower, and he noted that his physique was the best he'd ever seen on a player, since the Undertaker (Vincent Brown, who was basically chiseled from stone). He said he didn't know what he'd done this offseason with Tom and Guererro, but whatever it was, the guy was in unbelievable shape, and who knows. He said if it were possible for anyone to be back from this injury in time for the playoffs, it would be Edelman, and he's not betting against it. He said that by the time the game was over last night, he was already coming up with a recovery plan that would allow for just that.

I say, forget all that. Get healthy, and come back like AP did next year. In the meantime, this team is still fucking stacked. As long as Gronk stays on the field, it opens up literally everything. You still can't stop Gronk, the receivers, and all of the backs that are going to be coming flying from behind the LOS.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Oh, and football officially starts today ladies and gents. Currently watching some high end high school ball on ESPN, a Florida A&M vs. Texas Southern on ESPNU. About a half dozen more college games throughout the day. Get it on.
 

WV Sox Fan

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Anytime you lose a player of Edelman's caliber it will have an impact. If nothing else it reduces depth as everyone steps up a slot. One player I have not heard discussed much is Dion Lewis. Seemingly blocked by the rise of James White and the addition of Rex Burkhead, this may be an opportunity to work him back into the offense in a greater role. Josh has a lot of tools available and Lewis has the requisite quickness for a role in the slot.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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following up on the Snead suggestion, and the relief that this happened before they had to expose Carr to waivers, it's just another reminder of how you can't have enough depth...and why it makes sense to be patient in roster building during preseason.

I was going to suggest a few days ago that the Pats consider trading Dion for an edge defender (to Eagles?)...but now I'm glad he's around as a part of a potential solution to replace Edelman.
 

lars10

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Anytime you lose a player of Edelman's caliber it will have an impact. If nothing else it reduces depth as everyone steps up a slot. One player I have not heard discussed much is Dion Lewis. Seemingly blocked by the rise of James White and the addition of Rex Burkhead, this may be an opportunity to work him back into the offense in a greater role. Josh has a lot of tools available and Lewis has the requisite quickness for a role in the slot.
Part of me wonders what formations and plays BB and JM will create for multiple RBs.. white, Lewis, Burkhead, Gilleslie, Foster ..seems like you could play two of them together often and split them out as needed especially in hurry up to get bad matchups with LBs.
 

DJnVa

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Edelman on sidelines in week 11 as Carr catches clutch TD and BB asks JE if he knows who Wally Pipp is.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Wouldn't his rights revert to the Bills?
Yeah, but in the same way Lynch's reverted to Seattle. If he's only coming back for a contender, I'm sure something could get worked out.

I don't, however, see Bolden coming back.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Sucks but can be overcome given the depth they have. Can that change with another major injury to a skill player? Yes, but that's the NFL, lol boo hoo
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I'm clearly in the minority here, but this injury really worries me. The slot receiver is what has always made this engine go in New England. I remember those 7 games without Jules in 2015, and it was obvious how much the offense, and Brady, missed him. The team went 3-4 in those games, lost home field advantage, Brady's numbers suffered, they had real problems on third down...it wasn't good. It felt pretty similar to when Welker blew out his knee in a meaningless Houston game, then watching the offense sputter and implode against the Ravens in the playoffs.

This offense is elite when the slot wr is elite. Amendola isn't that level talent, Carr is young and unproven, and while I know it's early, Brandin Cooks has me a little concerned. Hogan actually may be the best fit there, but he's certainly not Edelman.

This offense will be good, but when we need those big 3rd down conversions, I can't help but shake the feeling that were really going to miss Jules.
 

scottyno

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In 2015 they had Asante Cleveland, Scott Chandler, and Chris Harper getting significant snaps. That won't happen in 2017 unless a bunch of guys go down
And the corpse of Steven Jackson starting at running back down the stretch and through the afccg.
 

Reggie's Racquet

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I'm clearly in the minority here, but this injury really worries me. The slot receiver is what has always made this engine go in New England. I remember those 7 games without Jules in 2015, and it was obvious how much the offense, and Brady, missed him. The team went 3-4 in those games, lost home field advantage, Brady's numbers suffered, they had real problems on third down...it wasn't good. It felt pretty similar to when Welker blew out his knee in a meaningless Houston game, then watching the offense sputter and implode against the Ravens in the playoffs.

This offense is elite when the slot wr is elite. Amendola isn't that level talent, Carr is young and unproven, and while I know it's early, Brandin Cooks has me a little concerned. Hogan actually may be the best fit there, but he's certainly not Edelman.

This offense will be good, but when we need those big 3rd down conversions, I can't help but shake the feeling that were really going to miss Jules.
Yes sir...and that's why Snead is more important than Butler. Butler hasn't played well this preseason and I don't think he will with Gilmore around...and then we lose him next year and get nothing.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yes sir...and that's why Snead is more important than Butler. Butler hasn't played well this preseason and I don't think he will with Gilmore around...and then we lose him next year and get nothing.
You have yet to make the case that the Saints are willing to trade Snead
 

DJnVa

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Or why Pats give up Butler when they can just franchise him if they want.
Well, the assumption is they want Snead no?

I don't agree, I'm just saying the idea posited is not that they can't franchise Butler it's just that apparently the poster thinks we can get Snead for him.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yes sir...and that's why Snead is more important than Butler. Butler hasn't played well this preseason and I don't think he will with Gilmore around...and then we lose him next year and get nothing.
Why is Gilmore going to make Butler play worse? Shouldn't it be the opposite?

Gotta keep Butler, the dropoff to Jones is way bigger than Edelman to Amendola/plethora of other options.
 

lars10

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I'm clearly in the minority here, but this injury really worries me. The slot receiver is what has always made this engine go in New England. I remember those 7 games without Jules in 2015, and it was obvious how much the offense, and Brady, missed him. The team went 3-4 in those games, lost home field advantage, Brady's numbers suffered, they had real problems on third down...it wasn't good. It felt pretty similar to when Welker blew out his knee in a meaningless Houston game, then watching the offense sputter and implode against the Ravens in the playoffs.

This offense is elite when the slot wr is elite. Amendola isn't that level talent, Carr is young and unproven, and while I know it's early, Brandin Cooks has me a little concerned. Hogan actually may be the best fit there, but he's certainly not Edelman.

This offense will be good, but when we need those big 3rd down conversions, I can't help but shake the feeling that were really going to miss Jules.
This has been true since Welker? But before wasn't this more Faulk or an RB? If anything can be said about a BB offense is that he's always looking for good players that other teams aren't and using them better than any other team would.. this is why I think burkhead and Gilleslie aren't here by accident and they're both going to be a huge part of the offense