2019 Chargers: Home Alone

soxhop411

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Now LA will have two teams that no one gives a shit about.
Why? How can LA sustain 2 teams? How is this even a possibility?


Correct. As an LA native I'm pissed. The Rams sold out their first few games. Then when everyone realized they were shit, nobody gave a shit about them. The stadium was then filled with a majority of the opposing fan base.


You better be a good team in LA otherwise the fans will turn on you faster then you can blink. The lakers know that well.
 

snowmanny

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One AFL title, one AFC championship in 55 years. I think that's not quite as good as the Padres (two pennants) but I suppose it tops the Rockets' and the Clippers' tenures in San Diego.
 

Devizier

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back when I was in college, the Chargers used to run their training camp at UCSD's facility. What's funny about UCSD is that they have the makings of a football field -- correct dimensions for a stadium and everything -- but no football program (or seats, or anything). But still, the Chargers would practice there and not at SDSU or some other place that actually played collegiate football.

What's great about this is that UCSD didn't really have much of any dedicated locker rooms for athletic teams, certainly nothing big enough to host an NFL squad. So the players would have to change into their gear in the parking lot.
 

Average Reds

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Still needs to get 24 of 32 owners to pass it. Not a done deal yet.
The approval was given last year as part of the deal that allowed the Rams to move to LA. Spanos had the first right of refusal to become a co-tenant with the Rams and the NFL gave him a year to make his decision.

If the Chargers decide to move, they're gone.

Co-tenant? They already offered the Raiders...
Nope - the Chargers are the team with the co-tenant offer in hand. That's why the Raiders have been looking in Las Vegas.
 
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soxhop411

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Yay! Now even fewer national games on local TV!
This as well....

Seriously, The stadium will sell out for the first few games because "YAY _____ is back in LA." the moment it is obvious the team is a dumpster fire and not a playoff contender, people abandon ship. One team was enough... Two LA teams is headed for failure unless the teams can get their ass in shape and produce teams that are excellent and playoff caliber year in and year out (as only "LA" demands) and very few NFL teams can lay that claim.... LA is a different animal entirely, and they are about to face that head on.....

 

socalsoxfan49

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As an LA native if the team isn't successful the fans won't care especially if you're trying to pack an 80,000 seat stadium and if it does pack it will be mostly opposing team fans.
 
Forbes listed the Rams as the 28th most valuable NFL franchise in 2015 with an estimated worth of $1.4 Billion. After their relocation in 2016 they shot up to number 6 with a value of $2.9 Billion. Like Kroenke, Spanos is a jerk but he didn't have a stadium deal (mostly due to his greed) and if he didn't move now, the Raiders could end up in the LA market. It's a smart move for the Charger organization.

I lived in LA for a decade and live in San Diego now. Both are lousy sports towns so really, whats the difference? Might as well go for the money long term.
 

Garshaparra

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Good for San Diego. They didn't knuckle under to the pressure to publicly fund a billionaire's stadium complex. Here's hoping they bulldoze the old stadium and replace it with hotels for the convention scene.

As for the LA relocation, I'm surprised to not hear the Rose Bowl mentioned as an option. It'll be much the same as the Coliseum, no doubt (old, half-empty for game days), but compared to a 30K stadium, it seems like a no-brainer.
 

jsinger121

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I think the thing with the Rose Bowl is convincing the city of Pasadena for double the football games. I don't think that is an easy task.
 

8slim

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Forbes listed the Rams as the 28th most valuable NFL franchise in 2015 with an estimated worth of $1.4 Billion. After their relocation in 2016 they shot up to number 6 with a value of $2.9 Billion. Like Kroenke, Spanos is a jerk but he didn't have a stadium deal (mostly due to his greed) and if he didn't move now, the Raiders could end up in the LA market. It's a smart move for the Charger organization.

I lived in LA for a decade and live in San Diego now. Both are lousy sports towns so really, whats the difference? Might as well go for the money long term.
SD may not be a great sports town but there are several generations who are Chargers fans. It totally sucks to rip the team away from a fan base and move it to a city that is utterly indifferent to their arrival.

I love how the NFL is basically a socialist enterprise except when it comes to franchise relocation. Then owners can do what they want, essentially. Because the votes on these things are jokes.
 

jsinger121

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Spanos has to pay a 650 million relocation fee. What a fool. He could have put 650 million towards a new stadium the cheap fuck he is.
 

joe dokes

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Sons of Barron Hilton, featuring Jack Kemp and Paul Maguire.



They'll be storming the Coliseum...again...
 

InstaFace

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Nope - the Chargers are the team with the co-tenant offer in hand. That's why the Raiders have been looking in Las Vegas.
You're right, the Chargers had the right to move up until Jan 16th of this year, after which point the right became the Raiders'. Spanos just had to line up the proper financing and logistical plan to make it happen.

I had gotten mixed up as to which team had which role. All I remember is that Kroenke is a pre-eminent asshole even by the standards of NFL Owner Assholes.
 
SD may not be a great sports town but there are several generations who are Chargers fans. It totally sucks to rip the team away from a fan base and move it to a city that is utterly indifferent to their arrival.

I love how the NFL is basically a socialist enterprise except when it comes to franchise relocation. Then owners can do what they want, essentially. Because the votes on these things are jokes.
I agree. It does suck. I have a ton of friends who are devastated. But Spanos is a miserable, greedy guy who wanted no part of using his own funds for a new stadium. And the taxpayers, to their credit, weren't about to be railroaded into paying for the whole things themselves (compared to St Louis who actually agreed to give Kroenke a pretty sweet deal at the end only to have him still turn it down). Just look at the vote in November - voters overwhelmingly rejected the proposal. My point is that the move isn't shocking and actually makes sense for the Spanos family from a financial standpoint. Sure, it's a scumbag move, but that's par for the course for this ownership.

And the truth is the Chargers don't have a great fanbase, especially considering the city's size and the team's tenure here. There are just too many transplants. Games often don't sell out and when they do, a third of the stadium is occupied by the opponent's fans. Will the LA market wholeheartedly embrace the Chargers? No, probably not. But it's not like the team is leaving a built in, ravenous fanbase that ensured huge ratings and ticket sales in San Diego. The relocation to a much larger market alone will dramatically increase the value of the franchise. It's sad but the move was inevitable in today's NFL climate.

Edit - Grammar
 
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Average Reds

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You're right, the Chargers had the right to move up until Jan 16th of this year, after which point the right became the Raiders'. Spanos just had to line up the proper financing and logistical plan to make it happen.

I had gotten mixed up as to which team had which role. All I remember is that Kroenke is a pre-eminent asshole even by the standards of NFL Owner Assholes.
At this moment, Mark Davis is the best NFL owner of a California-based franchise and it's not close. And he's trying to leave.

The NFL is a dumpster fire.
 

Zososoxfan

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One AFL title, one AFC championship in 55 years. I think that's not quite as good as the Padres (two pennants) but I suppose it tops the Rockets' and the Clippers' tenures in San Diego.
TIL the Rockets franchise started in SD. Now the team name makes less sense to me.

SD may not be a great sports town but there are several generations who are Chargers fans. It totally sucks to rip the team away from a fan base and move it to a city that is utterly indifferent to their arrival.

[snip]
As someone who lives in another fan wasteland (Tampa), I think owners are too cavalier in their attitude towards fans. The Lightning have made a concerted effort to put out a good product and enjoyable fan experience and they are starting to put butts in seats. But, they are establishing mostly first and some second-generation fans. Loyal fan bases take time and care to build for the most part (MLS' Portland Timbers is one counter example I can think of, but I digress). The Rays had a good product for some time, but the fan experience is likely the worst in US professional sports. The team draws good TV numbers, but location probably plays a bigger role for the Rays than others.

Spanos has to pay a 650 million relocation fee. What a fool. He could have put 650 million towards a new stadium the cheap fuck he is.
OK, this confuses me greatly. Because I assume most owners (and definitely Spanos) look at these things primarily as business (which I don't have a problem with), the increased value in being in LA has to offset this cost. And I'm trying to reconcile this with:

I agree. It does suck. I have a ton of friends who are devastated. But Spanos is a miserable, greedy guy who wanted no part of using his own funds for a new stadium and the city wasn't going to give in either (compared to St Louis who actually agreed to give Kroenke a pretty sweet deal at the end only to have him still turn it doen). Just look at the vote in November - voters overwhelmingly rejected the proposal. My point is that the move isn't shocking and actually makes sense for the Spanos family from a financial standpoint. It's a scumbag move, sure but that's part for the course for this ownership.

[snip]
If you assume that the LA Chargers have 3-5 years of poor attendance, does the franchise value increase from moving to LA offset the $650M relocation fee plus lost revenue from a bad stadium situation in LA plus worse attendance?
 

slamminsammya

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As a former and maybe current San Diego citizen I am happy the city didnt fold. But it is sad nevertheless. Just leaves the Dres who are a pile of garbage these days.
 

joe dokes

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As someone who lives in another fan wasteland (Tampa), I think owners are too cavalier in their attitude towards fans. The Lightning have made a concerted effort to put out a good product and enjoyable fan experience and they are starting to put butts in seats. But, they are establishing mostly first and some second-generation fans. Loyal fan bases take time and care to build for the most part (MLS' Portland Timbers is one counter example I can think of, but I digress). The Rays had a good product for some time, but the fan experience is likely the worst in US professional sports. The team draws good TV numbers, but location probably plays a bigger role for the Rays than others.

In today's NFL, does having a "loyal" local fan base matter? Does it really matter to an owner whether the team sells out or only gets 85% capacity? The owner pockets cash from stadium bells and whistles like luxury boxes, which are paid for by the non-loyal fans.
 
If you assume that the LA Chargers have 3-5 years of poor attendance, does the franchise value increase from moving to LA offset the $650M relocation fee plus lost revenue from a bad stadium situation in LA plus worse attendance?
The Rams value literally doubled by moving to LA. That's solely based on having a new stadium (which they'll obviously now be sharing) and being located in the 2nd biggest market in America. Sure, the Chargers don't have the history in LA like the Rams, do (although they did originate there) but the team will still keep a decent percentage of the San Diego fanbase despite how betrayed those fans feel this morning. I realize SD and and LA are two totally different cities and mindsets, but it's still only a move of 120 miles. Between holding onto some of that SD fanbase, the new LA market, and the stadium deal, I'd be shocked if that doesn't make up for the relocation fee and then some regardless of the team's attendance the first decade.

It's important to remember that the other NFL owners have wanted two teams in LA for over a decade now. They know the potential for the market and will do everything to help those teams be financially successful. It's now in the league's best interest.
 

dcmissle

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Reportedly, they are re-branding. Which for this football fan who loves history in general is sickening.

No, they have not won a ton of titles. But they have a glorious history including some of the game's most important figures.
 

joe dokes

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The Rams value literally doubled by moving to LA. That's solely based on having a new stadium (which they'll obviously now be sharing) and being located in the 2nd biggest market in America. Sure, the Chargers don't have the history in LA like the Rams, do (although they did originate there) but the team will still keep a decent percentage of the San Diego fanbase despite how betrayed those fans feel this morning. I realize SD and and LA are two totally different cities and mindsets, but it's still only a move of 120 miles. Between holding onto some of that SD fanbase, the new LA market, and the stadium deal, I'd be shocked if that doesn't make up for the relocation fee and then some regardless of the team's attendance the first decade.

It's important to remember that the other NFL owners have wanted two teams in LA for over a decade now. They know the potential for the market and will do everything to help those teams be financially successful. It's now in the league's best interest.

With 2 teams in LA, it means, that like with NY, there will be 2 games of somewhat local interest on TV every single week in the country's second-largest TV market. That's 2 more than there were when the NFL signed its last TV deal. Even a lukewarm fan base will probably watch more of the local teams than it would have out of town games. When the teams suck, look for them to play on Mondays and Saturdays.

Reportedly, they are re-branding. Which for this football fan who loves history in general is sickening.
No, they have not won a ton of titles. But they have a glorious history including some of the game's most important figures.
Given the times we live in, they'll honor history by having Paris Hilton heavily involved in the public presentation of her grandfather's team.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm quite certain there are still restrictions on NFL broadcasts on Saturdays during the college football season. Which is why you see Saturday games only during the last couple of weeks of December.

Last I knew, the Chargers had been trying for a few years to get funding (as in a massive increase in local taxes) to pay for a stadium. Given that situation, the move to LA appears to be a better solution for all parties involved.
 

jsinger121

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Have to think if this would still have happened had the Chargers not lost in 2006 to the Patriots and gone on to win Super Bowl 41. Definitely something to think about that the Patriots possibly could have contributed to the demise of the San Diego Chargers with that win in San Diego that day in the Divisional Round.
 

joe dokes

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Saturdays are highlighted national games the last 2 weeks of December, no? That's like getting the SNF slot.
We've had this discussion before. The history of televised NFL Saturday games (restricted by law to late season) has an inordinate number of Jets and Giants games, regardless of how well they are doing, just to get them out of the way for the NY Sunday audience to see games involving other teams.
 

Gunfighter 09

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They have to play the Raiders home game in London, don't they?Pissed off LA Raider fans will spend their kids college fund to get their hands on those tickets. There are already Raiders fans really excited for 2022, when we will have ten home games, with two games in Kroenkeworld.

At what point in the next 5 years will it become clear to the NFL owners how wrong they got LA simply because they hated Al Davis? They just moved two teams to LA without fan bases there essentially so they could leave the team with an established LA fan base out in the cold, or desert as the case may be.

San Diego are Jerry Brown are also idiots for letting this happen. When they lose Comicon in the next couple years, they are basically Norfolk with better weather and food. I look forward to the city negotiating with the Padres in a five years when they determine Petco needs serious upgrades to remain competitive.

EDIT: Today is also a great day to remember what a shortsighted fool post 1980 Al Davis was. He brought the Spanos family into the ownership fold in 1983. Then 11 years later he left LA for a terrible deal in Oakland because Tagliabue hurt his feelings. Now the Spanos' have his spot in America's 2nd largest market.
 
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Apr 7, 2006
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That logo is boring and unimaginative. Not that it has to be this wild outside the box thing, but I seriously think my five year old could've come up with that.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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The fans seem to be taking out their frustration on Spanos' Wikipedia page:
Dean Alexander Spanos (born May 26, 1950) is the team president, gutless feck and CEO of the National Football League's San Diego Chargers franchise, in which his father, owner Alex Spanos, purchased majority interest in 1984.
Despite having full support of the city of San Diego residents and Charger fans, Spanos cowardly posted a letter online to officially announce the controversial move.
 

Spacemans Bong

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They have to play the Raiders home game in London, don't they?Pissed off LA Raider fans will spend their kids college fund to get their hands on those tickets. There are already Raiders fans really excited for 2022, when we will have ten home games, with two games in Kroenkeworld.

At what point in the next 5 years will it become clear to the NFL owners how wrong they got LA simply because they hated Al Davis? They just moved two teams to LA without fan bases there essentially so they could leave the team with an established LA fan base out in the cold, or desert as the case may be.

San Diego are Jerry Brown are also idiots for letting this happen. When they lose Comicon in the next couple years, they are basically Norfolk with better weather and food. I look forward to the city negotiating with the Padres in a five years when they determine Petco needs serious upgrades to remain competitive.

EDIT: Today is also a great day to remember what a shortsighted fool post 1980 Al Davis was. He brought the Spanos family into the ownership fold in 1983. Then 11 years later he left LA for a terrible deal in Oakland because Tagliabue hurt his feelings. Now the Spanos' have his spot in America's 2nd largest market.
How is this Jerry Brown's fault? I don't see what he has to do with this, since state funding of sports stadiums has been illegal in CA for 40 years. Unless you're playing a very long game of blame here, since he was governor then too.

I would bet a fair number of money the Chargers end up back in San Diego in my lifetime. The Rams have history and some fans in LA, the Chargers have neither (nobody gave a shit about the AFL in 1960). They're gonna fail.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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I would bet a fair number of money the Chargers end up back in San Diego in my lifetime. The Rams have history and some fans in LA, the Chargers have neither (nobody gave a shit about the AFL in 1960). They're gonna fail.
It's worse than that. Local fans that have an allegiance have it to either the Rams (who are back - so why would they switch?) or the Chargers' main rival (are they going to switch to a team they hate?). Who are they hoping to draw from? People from LA who aren't old enough to have attached themselves to one of the other teams?

As someone who lived next door to Qualcomm Stadium for a couple of years, it's definitely a bummer. It was never a sports town though, so if any town can have an NFL team leave and shrug their shoulders, it's probably SD. I'll never forget going to a Pats-Chargers game in 2002 wearing my Pats gear and having this huge menacing looking guy come up to me, thinking I was going to have to defend myself, and then he says "How are you enjoying San Diego?". Culture shock of the highest order.
 

Cellar-Door

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People think San Diego lost in this?
They're the only people who won. They didn't sink hundreds of millions into subsidizing a billionaire owner for a product that doesn't really bring a significant amount of money to the city. California won too I guess since they also told Spanos and the NFL to fuck off an lost nothing out of it.

Chargers lose, because they move to LA where nobody wants them to play in front of a half-empty stadium and pay rent to one of their competitors.
 

joe dokes

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The plan is to play in a stadium that holds 27,000 people for the next 2 seasons. If that doesn't scream "the people who buy tickets dont really matter," then nothing does.