LeBron's Latest
- Thread starter TheoShmeo
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Seriously. Rubio would lock your ass up for posting that and he isn't even a mod.
Your stats show Lebron is a more efficient scorer and better player than Kobe. Not argument here. I gave written several times on here Kobe wasn't even a good player for the last third of his career.
Your stats don't show anything about how Lebron gets to the rim, how he shoots while being forced to go one on one as the clock expires. Magic Johnson was not great at getting his own shot either but is or was before LBJ the greatest transition player ever. LBJ is basically one of those freak hypotheticals come true "what if a guy could lead the break like Magic, and was as big as Karl Malone, and finished like Dr. J." If you were going to make your GOAT 3 on 2 fast break Lebron may be all three guys.
Lebron also unlike Kobe, MJ has had few periods of his career where he forced things and took bad shots. Remarkable considering his age when he entered the NBA. In 40 or so years as a sports fan Tiger Woods, and Sydney Crosby are the closest I can think of to an athlete that was hyped as a 14 year old, and lived up to it. McDavid may be too. But Lebron has been way better than they are.
The fact Lebron is not the greatest 'get out of my way' guy is probably a strength in that he has always been able to fit in with other teammates.
He is also at the stage of his career he does not want to have to be winning games being the hero while he does so much else for his team at both ends.
Kobe and even MJ would not look at the game in a realistic assessment that the way to win was something other than them going one on one. It took Phil years to get Jordan to believe in the triangle for example. And as for Kobe not buying into winning other than him being the hero I offer his entire post Shaq career.
Anyway somebody else wrote better than me that no player is the best at everything.
I am not sure if you are the same guy that blew a gasket during the playoffs when discussing Lebron is said Bird was a great passer, because it was so hurtful to say anything other than LBJ is the best. The fact you are accusing me of being the defensive fanboy has irony meters all over exploding.
Your stats don't show anything about how Lebron gets to the rim, how he shoots while being forced to go one on one as the clock expires. Magic Johnson was not great at getting his own shot either but is or was before LBJ the greatest transition player ever. LBJ is basically one of those freak hypotheticals come true "what if a guy could lead the break like Magic, and was as big as Karl Malone, and finished like Dr. J." If you were going to make your GOAT 3 on 2 fast break Lebron may be all three guys.
Lebron also unlike Kobe, MJ has had few periods of his career where he forced things and took bad shots. Remarkable considering his age when he entered the NBA. In 40 or so years as a sports fan Tiger Woods, and Sydney Crosby are the closest I can think of to an athlete that was hyped as a 14 year old, and lived up to it. McDavid may be too. But Lebron has been way better than they are.
The fact Lebron is not the greatest 'get out of my way' guy is probably a strength in that he has always been able to fit in with other teammates.
He is also at the stage of his career he does not want to have to be winning games being the hero while he does so much else for his team at both ends.
Kobe and even MJ would not look at the game in a realistic assessment that the way to win was something other than them going one on one. It took Phil years to get Jordan to believe in the triangle for example. And as for Kobe not buying into winning other than him being the hero I offer his entire post Shaq career.
Anyway somebody else wrote better than me that no player is the best at everything.
I am not sure if you are the same guy that blew a gasket during the playoffs when discussing Lebron is said Bird was a great passer, because it was so hurtful to say anything other than LBJ is the best. The fact you are accusing me of being the defensive fanboy has irony meters all over exploding.
You're a really, really terrible poster in this forum. Sorry to be so blunt, but there's no other way to put it. I'm not familiar with you elsewhere, so I don't want to overgeneralize, but your work here needs some work.
It would be one thing to simply hold the misguided opinions you hold. But the fact that you couple those with defensiveness and are critical of posters who challenge you is the icing on the cake.
In the playoff game threads last year you kept insisting that LeBron is a terrible post player. He is probably the league's best post player. And certainly in the top three. You also said "it's closer than you think" in a comparison between Larry Bird and LeBron James' athleticism. Just to be really clear about that, you tried to argue that Larry Bird, he of the 3'' vertical, was almost as athletic as LeBron James.
And your take away from those conversations is that I "blew a gasket" when you said Bird is a better passer that LeBron because it's "hurtful to say anything other than LBJ is the best." What I actually did was, as I am now, call you out on bad posting.
Here's what I said:
And from that you concluded that your criticisms of LeBron are perfectly accurate and anybody that disagrees does so because "it's hurtful to say anything other than LBJ is the best" and "no player is the best at everything."
So, to recap, you don't know much about the NBA. Which is totally fine. You're allowed to have bad opinions. But you should be prepared to support them with something beyond accusations that people who disagree with you are fanboys.
It would be one thing to simply hold the misguided opinions you hold. But the fact that you couple those with defensiveness and are critical of posters who challenge you is the icing on the cake.
In the playoff game threads last year you kept insisting that LeBron is a terrible post player. He is probably the league's best post player. And certainly in the top three. You also said "it's closer than you think" in a comparison between Larry Bird and LeBron James' athleticism. Just to be really clear about that, you tried to argue that Larry Bird, he of the 3'' vertical, was almost as athletic as LeBron James.
And your take away from those conversations is that I "blew a gasket" when you said Bird is a better passer that LeBron because it's "hurtful to say anything other than LBJ is the best." What I actually did was, as I am now, call you out on bad posting.
Here's what I said:
So what I actually said is that LeBron is a really good passer out of the post, asked you to provide some sort of evidence that your assertion is true. Just like nighthob is asking you to do about Kobe.
And from that you concluded that your criticisms of LeBron are perfectly accurate and anybody that disagrees does so because "it's hurtful to say anything other than LBJ is the best" and "no player is the best at everything."
So, to recap, you don't know much about the NBA. Which is totally fine. You're allowed to have bad opinions. But you should be prepared to support them with something beyond accusations that people who disagree with you are fanboys.
Sure. But when the best you can muster for a guy is "pretty athletic as a younger player" and you're comparing him to one of the best athletes the world's ever seen, it's pretty clear why that's a ridiculous conversation to be having. Particularly when the person initiating it is accusing everybody who disagrees with him of being a fanboy.
If Lebron had played his entire career with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish and seasons with Tiny Archibald, Dennis Johnson, Bill Walton et al, he would not have chosen to leave Cleveland in the first place.
First of all you guys have me confused with somebody else when you are talking about Kobe. You don't have a stat about one on one situations. Somebody provided total points, which doesn't really show how a guy got his points. Deandre Jordan has a great shooting %, so that can be misleading too. Basketball is harder to quantify in stats. I would say the fact Lebron does not want to be an iso guy, at the very least, means he sees himself better in other areas.
Sorry the Kobe stuff still cracks me up, because I have went after Kobe hard in the forum, especially for his sham of a last season. That said his work ethic was legendary.
Also being accused of being a Lebron basher is silly too. I saw him play a lot as high school kid in AAU, even spoke to him few times. I have a very good idea of how he was coached when he developed. How he handled his experience as a kid, considering what was going on around him, shows exceptional character. His takedown of Sir Charles is spot on. There have been a lot of hyped guys as the next GOAT and of all the famous 14 year old celebrities ever Tiger, Sid Crosby, are the only others that came to mind, living up to the impossible hype. (McDavid may too) But, Lebron has lived up to the craziest hyperbole ever.
It is possible my evaluation of LBJ's post skills are colored by what I saw then. I also ponder that maybe all of us guys from a different era may not have seen the low post did not matter as much as we believed, but if it was possible to find a weakness then that was it. I am sureit bothered us old schoolers because Lebron was probably as big as a Gronk at the time. I expect I question my own opinions more than you do yours, being old enough and close enough to the game to see your opinions validated or proven wrong.
The opinion about his post up is not even originally mine, I stole it from a Hubie Brown Q and A at a clinic I attended. And it certainly connected to what I saw of the teen Lebron all those years before. The Karl Malone line I used was Hubie's. Hubie did say Lebron and MJ were the two guys most likley to make it in any era, but had Bird up there too.
I never ever said Bird was the same athlete as Lebron that is garbage. But it was represented that he was a terrible athlete, he wasn't. Athleticism is more than leaping. Bird was very agile for
a big guy. Bird's agility, size quickness were often underplayed to support how his success was all skill and smarts. There was more than a little racism, at the time, on both sides of the Bird is a bad athlete argument. I simply said if you think he was a terrible athlete it is closer than that. I never even concluded Bird was a better player. Yet there are quite a few, even in this thread posts firing back at me on those grounds. On that note though if Lebron was a million times better athlete and every skill is better than Bird's, why do guys that played in the NBA, not you, but Reggie Miller feel the comparison is not so overwhelmingly in Lebron's favor?
I will go on record as saying I would build a team around Lebron before Bird based on his superiority on D, and in transition. (I look forward to the attack claiming that I said Lebron sucks in the half court)
I also pointed out the difference in how basketball is coached now and then, and how the game has changed post play, and that Lebron's history of playing elite AAU against older guys developed his incredible perimeter skills, rather than the back to the basket power moves, much to the betterment of the basketball world. There are strength's and weaknesses in both eras. In the 80s some coaches may have made Lebron a 4 and nothing else, but probably not the talent was that obvious.
Anyway I would be happy to line up my experience in basketball, side by side with yours.
Sorry the Kobe stuff still cracks me up, because I have went after Kobe hard in the forum, especially for his sham of a last season. That said his work ethic was legendary.
Also being accused of being a Lebron basher is silly too. I saw him play a lot as high school kid in AAU, even spoke to him few times. I have a very good idea of how he was coached when he developed. How he handled his experience as a kid, considering what was going on around him, shows exceptional character. His takedown of Sir Charles is spot on. There have been a lot of hyped guys as the next GOAT and of all the famous 14 year old celebrities ever Tiger, Sid Crosby, are the only others that came to mind, living up to the impossible hype. (McDavid may too) But, Lebron has lived up to the craziest hyperbole ever.
It is possible my evaluation of LBJ's post skills are colored by what I saw then. I also ponder that maybe all of us guys from a different era may not have seen the low post did not matter as much as we believed, but if it was possible to find a weakness then that was it. I am sureit bothered us old schoolers because Lebron was probably as big as a Gronk at the time. I expect I question my own opinions more than you do yours, being old enough and close enough to the game to see your opinions validated or proven wrong.
The opinion about his post up is not even originally mine, I stole it from a Hubie Brown Q and A at a clinic I attended. And it certainly connected to what I saw of the teen Lebron all those years before. The Karl Malone line I used was Hubie's. Hubie did say Lebron and MJ were the two guys most likley to make it in any era, but had Bird up there too.
I never ever said Bird was the same athlete as Lebron that is garbage. But it was represented that he was a terrible athlete, he wasn't. Athleticism is more than leaping. Bird was very agile for
a big guy. Bird's agility, size quickness were often underplayed to support how his success was all skill and smarts. There was more than a little racism, at the time, on both sides of the Bird is a bad athlete argument. I simply said if you think he was a terrible athlete it is closer than that. I never even concluded Bird was a better player. Yet there are quite a few, even in this thread posts firing back at me on those grounds. On that note though if Lebron was a million times better athlete and every skill is better than Bird's, why do guys that played in the NBA, not you, but Reggie Miller feel the comparison is not so overwhelmingly in Lebron's favor?
I will go on record as saying I would build a team around Lebron before Bird based on his superiority on D, and in transition. (I look forward to the attack claiming that I said Lebron sucks in the half court)
I also pointed out the difference in how basketball is coached now and then, and how the game has changed post play, and that Lebron's history of playing elite AAU against older guys developed his incredible perimeter skills, rather than the back to the basket power moves, much to the betterment of the basketball world. There are strength's and weaknesses in both eras. In the 80s some coaches may have made Lebron a 4 and nothing else, but probably not the talent was that obvious.
Anyway I would be happy to line up my experience in basketball, side by side with yours.
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Look, let me break this down in chunks so simple that even you can understand.
- "You don't say how LeBron gets his points at the rim!!!" No. I didn't. But as the de facto point guard in Cleveland and then Miami does it really matter how cool he looked while doing it? That's what this criticism boils down to. It's "He just uses his strength to bully past people!!!" So what? It gets the job done. And gets it done better than any perimeter player of the last generation where the data's available. He hasn't spent his career playing with prime Steve Nash, he's spent it with undersized shooting guards that could dribble enough to get the ball past half court and into his hands to initiate the offense.
- "But look at how well a center that catches alley oops scores at the rim!!!" Yeah, awesome. Traditionally centers have scored from six feet and in, this new era being the exception. That's why I never compared any of the guys listed with centers (or power forwards), because then Shaq becomes the GOAT at creating his own shot. We were discussing perimeter guys.
- "Bird was a better passer!!!" Maybe. He's also one of the few forwards, along with LeBron, in that conversation. Weird that a guy that "can't create shots" is in the conversation for best passing forward of all time, but hey, keep the faith man. But let's look at the career assist percentages, shall we? One of them holds a career ast% of 24.7, the other 34.8.
1 and 2 are just crazy ravings and nothing close to anything I have posted. In fact I laugh constantly at the "only because he is strong" argument myself. No rule about being too strong.
Over and over with your simplistic basketball use of stats you fail to address transition, and where a guy gets the ball. I went through this last time. It is not baseball. Basketball plays involve ten guys , not a pitcher and batter. Lebron brings the ball up a lot, and plays more like Magic than Bird. He is a playmaker. He was the point in Miami a lot, especially when they played their best.
(I will help you out. You shouls have written this Lebron was point guard on a dominant championship team, so he can be compared to Magic Johnson and Bird, so is a better all around passer.)
Bird rarely lead the break, unless it was a steal, and when he did he was not in LBJ's league. He excels in that roll. Despite your constant claims I am bashing Lebron, I point out repeatedly I consider him the best transition player of all time. About the time some of you were riding your big wheel most NBA observers agreed Magic was the best transition player, Bird the small forward, Jordan the best player ever.Lebron has a claim to all three. As I said in this thread (But go ahead take a phrase from last year out of context instead) Lebron (my opinion, funny how you don't blast, my non stats opinions about good Lebron is) is probably the best guy at any postion in the break. If we go to five guys I maybe want Curry trailing, my 3 Lebrons, maybe ABA Dr. J gets in there some place too.
Of the Holy Trintiy of the 80s and 90 (Magic, Bird, Jordan) most experts have conceded all but Jordan;s crown to Lebron. Why?...Well one problem is MJ was a shooting guard. My innocuous statement that started this pissing match could really have been Lebron does not want to play so much guard anymore.
Lastly saying perhaps 2 guys were better at something does not mean he is bad at it.
Get out of your binary Fox news/CNBC, swipe left, swipe right thinking and look at nuance.
Over and over with your simplistic basketball use of stats you fail to address transition, and where a guy gets the ball. I went through this last time. It is not baseball. Basketball plays involve ten guys , not a pitcher and batter. Lebron brings the ball up a lot, and plays more like Magic than Bird. He is a playmaker. He was the point in Miami a lot, especially when they played their best.
(I will help you out. You shouls have written this Lebron was point guard on a dominant championship team, so he can be compared to Magic Johnson and Bird, so is a better all around passer.)
Bird rarely lead the break, unless it was a steal, and when he did he was not in LBJ's league. He excels in that roll. Despite your constant claims I am bashing Lebron, I point out repeatedly I consider him the best transition player of all time. About the time some of you were riding your big wheel most NBA observers agreed Magic was the best transition player, Bird the small forward, Jordan the best player ever.Lebron has a claim to all three. As I said in this thread (But go ahead take a phrase from last year out of context instead) Lebron (my opinion, funny how you don't blast, my non stats opinions about good Lebron is) is probably the best guy at any postion in the break. If we go to five guys I maybe want Curry trailing, my 3 Lebrons, maybe ABA Dr. J gets in there some place too.
Of the Holy Trintiy of the 80s and 90 (Magic, Bird, Jordan) most experts have conceded all but Jordan;s crown to Lebron. Why?...Well one problem is MJ was a shooting guard. My innocuous statement that started this pissing match could really have been Lebron does not want to play so much guard anymore.
Lastly saying perhaps 2 guys were better at something does not mean he is bad at it.
Get out of your binary Fox news/CNBC, swipe left, swipe right thinking and look at nuance.
Do you understand the amount of offense scored in transition? Hint, even with rules designed to encourage it it just isn't very much in these days of advanced defensive schemes. You're certainly free to make the "But all his points are in transition!!!" argument, but you'll need some statistical data to back it. And it's going to be tough because those Cavs teams of yore weren't very good in transition. Miami was better, but then LeBron wasn't scoring 100% of the transition buckets either.
"But all his points are in transition!!!
Stop it with the absolutes and BS manufactured false quotations.
How about answering one of my questions, rather than putting words in my mouth.
1. Do you not think Lebron effectively being the point, leading the break gets him more assists?
Bird did not play, and could not do that. Bird was known for playing without the ball.
2 Would not Lebron's uber athleticism allow him to be a better playmaker? Assists are not just passing. I don't think even Johnny Most called Bird a playmaker.
3. Do you not think it is possible guys that played in an era where the low post was of paramount importance were better at it than guys who play it today?
Note it does not mean that individual player is worse, or got "all" his points some other way.
4. Is it also not possible that, out of this almost extinct position, the low post, a guy (widely considered the best passing forward ever) from that era could be a better passer in that narrow circumstance of passing from the post and it would not show up in overall assist stats? Especially since that guys played most of his youth with his back to the back with inferior team-mates where he was doubled constantly, and his way to win was to find easy shots for his buddies. This is opposed to a physical prodigy form a different era that played wing and guard in national AAU competition, the best players in the country, usually much older than himself from 8th grade on. Also when said prodigy is asked to put some basketball content into a comedy line about self improvement mentions the post up as his own weakness.
5 How does his assist stats prove he is guy that likes to make his own shot and not a playmaker?
The guys I think were a bit (NOT ALL 110%) better at off the dribble were 2 guards, and that was what 2 guard used to do. Lebron passes more and better than MJ and of course Kobe.
Please stop putting words in my mouth here is what I believe:
A
Lebron does not want to be a "give me the ball" scorer, he asked for a playmaker, while a pre baseball MJ or post Shaq Kobe would have asked for the ball. Those guys were better as pure somewhat selfish scorers than LBJ but inferior playmakers. Lebron would like to get some scoring touches where something is made to happen for him, especially at his current age. These guys were two guards, and 40-60lb or so lighter than Lebron, so could probably "go get it" for a larger portion of the game. LBJ wants to do that when it matters not all game. MJ scored 50 34 times, Kobe 20. Lebron 9, only 2 times since 2009. His last was 2014, even though this is the year of the 50 point game.Yeah they took more shots, because guys that put it on the floor to score a lot do that. Lebron, at the very least doesn't want to do that. Lebron's biggest games generally involve him sharing the ball, not going off as an individual. I suggest you consider it possible he may be as good at that type of basketball as they were. Maybe look at the stat 10th from the left on basketball ref. Crazy old guys that spent more time in the gym than in front of a screen consider this stat an indicator of pure shooting ability. So probably teen LBJ was correct to spend his extra time shooting not becoming Kevin McHale with his back to the hoop. (Note McHale was better at the telling stat than Lebron is as well)
B
If Lebron had the power low post game taught to in the 80s he would do better agaisnt smaller defenders than he does now, even though he is already very good. I have been influenced in my opinion of his low post play by hearing elite coaches sshare a similar opinion. I believe, having seen him play as a teen, the fact he never posted up much, some games not at all, is a factor. Also, in the grand scheme this is a case of the impossibility of being best at everything.He would have to select something he would have had to work on less, to improve his low post game. For example shooting way back was considered his weakness, but unlike many early maturing athletes his shot got better every year. I plead guilty that watching teen Lebron get catches on the 3point line against 165 pound defenders tweaked a personal bias.
Stop it with the absolutes and BS manufactured false quotations.
How about answering one of my questions, rather than putting words in my mouth.
1. Do you not think Lebron effectively being the point, leading the break gets him more assists?
Bird did not play, and could not do that. Bird was known for playing without the ball.
2 Would not Lebron's uber athleticism allow him to be a better playmaker? Assists are not just passing. I don't think even Johnny Most called Bird a playmaker.
3. Do you not think it is possible guys that played in an era where the low post was of paramount importance were better at it than guys who play it today?
Note it does not mean that individual player is worse, or got "all" his points some other way.
4. Is it also not possible that, out of this almost extinct position, the low post, a guy (widely considered the best passing forward ever) from that era could be a better passer in that narrow circumstance of passing from the post and it would not show up in overall assist stats? Especially since that guys played most of his youth with his back to the back with inferior team-mates where he was doubled constantly, and his way to win was to find easy shots for his buddies. This is opposed to a physical prodigy form a different era that played wing and guard in national AAU competition, the best players in the country, usually much older than himself from 8th grade on. Also when said prodigy is asked to put some basketball content into a comedy line about self improvement mentions the post up as his own weakness.
5 How does his assist stats prove he is guy that likes to make his own shot and not a playmaker?
The guys I think were a bit (NOT ALL 110%) better at off the dribble were 2 guards, and that was what 2 guard used to do. Lebron passes more and better than MJ and of course Kobe.
Please stop putting words in my mouth here is what I believe:
A
Lebron does not want to be a "give me the ball" scorer, he asked for a playmaker, while a pre baseball MJ or post Shaq Kobe would have asked for the ball. Those guys were better as pure somewhat selfish scorers than LBJ but inferior playmakers. Lebron would like to get some scoring touches where something is made to happen for him, especially at his current age. These guys were two guards, and 40-60lb or so lighter than Lebron, so could probably "go get it" for a larger portion of the game. LBJ wants to do that when it matters not all game. MJ scored 50 34 times, Kobe 20. Lebron 9, only 2 times since 2009. His last was 2014, even though this is the year of the 50 point game.Yeah they took more shots, because guys that put it on the floor to score a lot do that. Lebron, at the very least doesn't want to do that. Lebron's biggest games generally involve him sharing the ball, not going off as an individual. I suggest you consider it possible he may be as good at that type of basketball as they were. Maybe look at the stat 10th from the left on basketball ref. Crazy old guys that spent more time in the gym than in front of a screen consider this stat an indicator of pure shooting ability. So probably teen LBJ was correct to spend his extra time shooting not becoming Kevin McHale with his back to the hoop. (Note McHale was better at the telling stat than Lebron is as well)
B
If Lebron had the power low post game taught to in the 80s he would do better agaisnt smaller defenders than he does now, even though he is already very good. I have been influenced in my opinion of his low post play by hearing elite coaches sshare a similar opinion. I believe, having seen him play as a teen, the fact he never posted up much, some games not at all, is a factor. Also, in the grand scheme this is a case of the impossibility of being best at everything.He would have to select something he would have had to work on less, to improve his low post game. For example shooting way back was considered his weakness, but unlike many early maturing athletes his shot got better every year. I plead guilty that watching teen Lebron get catches on the 3point line against 165 pound defenders tweaked a personal bias.
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I miss that guy. Very entertaining following all of you very knowledgeable dudes argue/debate him for months and months.
I was wrong about Rondo as well.
Oh god, not Brickowski, the one guy I've blocked in all my years here. Please don't tell me he's back.
We're on like word 5000 of you ranting about this because you aren't sharp enough to understand that LeBron is asking for a playmaker for the second unit so he doesn't have to play 37 minutes a game.
That's a good point, Cleveland just might be the sort of team that can get Jennings under control and make him focus on what he does well. He really would be an ideal backup point for them, even with his tendencies to fire up ill considered jumpers.
This is a great thread derail topic but Rondo actually turned into the worst possible version of Rondo that Brick was describing. It could have gone other ways and it took a few years to get there but he indeed landed there.
If people think the "knowledgeable" guys are the people that object to saying Michael Jordan was better at getting his own shot than LBJ, then attack me with manufactured quotations then maybe Stiffy is right about this place.
If these young guys are so much smarter than me they should eviscerate my direct questions.
There has been a hyperbolic response to assertions that guys widely considered the best ever at particular skills are better than Lebron at those skills. I will not rehash but a guy that was continually insulting through this discussion believes he delivered a finishing blow by pointing out Lebron is a playmaker, while initially growing angry that I said LBJ was not a pure one on one scorer.
If you want you can read my history in this forum. I explained a bit of my experiences and access to better basketball minds than any here.
Yeah I wrote a lot. But there is substance based on experiences I expect are rare in this group.
If these two fellas are so much more knowledgeable than me I ask them to answer my direct questions in the long post above. Entertain us with your take down.
If these young guys are so much smarter than me they should eviscerate my direct questions.
There has been a hyperbolic response to assertions that guys widely considered the best ever at particular skills are better than Lebron at those skills. I will not rehash but a guy that was continually insulting through this discussion believes he delivered a finishing blow by pointing out Lebron is a playmaker, while initially growing angry that I said LBJ was not a pure one on one scorer.
If you want you can read my history in this forum. I explained a bit of my experiences and access to better basketball minds than any here.
Yeah I wrote a lot. But there is substance based on experiences I expect are rare in this group.
If these two fellas are so much more knowledgeable than me I ask them to answer my direct questions in the long post above. Entertain us with your take down.
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FWIW I'm not really disagreeing with you; I was more indicating that this was a very long argument about a little factoid that doesn't really mean a whole lot (nor does it display a tremendous amount of basketball knowledge on either end). That is the Brick story in a nutshell. I think you are very knowledgeable and an important part of the Port Cellar.
I, truly, have no idea what your direct questions have to do with anything.
You and I engaged last year over LeBron's post play. When we did so, we weren't comparing his post play to 80s era post players, or whatever it is you're attempting to do now. You said, flatly and multiple times, that LBJ was a bad post player. You didn't say he was bad compared to the great post players of the 80s. You said he was bad. Full stop.
I pointed out that he was s great post player, one of the best in the league.
And now you're framing the discussion, 8 months later, as one in which others are claiming that LeBron is the best post player of all time. That wasn't the conversation.
If they don't mind using up a roster spot, they can keep Love off IR and maybe he'll heal up before the Super Bowl
Let it go - we don't need to revisit old wars.
He is my GOAT - if he has more talent around him in Cleveland the first go-round, he has a few more rings. Also, I subscribe to the theory that he did this tonight in direct response to Wall's pass last night. That is how competitive the man is.
