Liverpool 2017-18: Salah Days are Here

PedroSpecialK

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He only played 45 minutes yesterday, so Klopp said he would get 45 minutes today.
Given how important he is, I'd rather not have him stretching out / getting up to match speeds on consecutive days. But I'm nitpicking already

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SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
Origi made the most of it to get the call, but his foot definitely was taken out. Firmino makes the penalty to tie it up.

Thankfully, there's no extra time in this game. If nobody scores in the next 5 minutes, it goes straight to penalties.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
If the right landing spot could be found, I wouldn't mind seeing Ward stay and Karius sent on loan to get some first team experience in England.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
With the prelim rounds complete, we know the 5 teams that Liverpool could possibly play in the Champions League playoff.

Nice, Hoffenheim, Steaua Bucharest, Young Boys or Istanbul BB

And yes...Balotelli still plays for Nice.

The draw is Friday.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
The preseason ends with a 3-1 win over Athletic Bilbao in Dublin.

Watford away in the lunchtime kickoff next Saturday, followed by Hoffenheim away 3 days later.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I am not following the transfer rumors. Is there anything interesting brewing? I want to fool myself that if we get Van Dijk and Keita, we ll compete for the league. But as is, I am guessing it's a struggle at best for top 4.
 

Schnerres

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With the CL playoffs against Hoffenheim on 15. and 23rd of August and the transfer deadline 8 days later, I would guess there´s activity after they know where the Euro road will go.
Some players would only consider Liverpool if there´s CL football involved and Liverpool would only invest more (in those huge transfer sums), if they reach the CL.
OTOH, those guys will get more expensive, the closer it gets to the deadline, if their teams prefer to keep them (like Keita/RB Leipzig). Tricky situation.
 

67YAZ

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We'll see. It's been frustrating that Klopp either has no plan B or is unwilling to move to plan B after VVD & Keita. Those are both areas of need, not luxury. This window will be seen as a failure if there aren't reinforcements in the midfield and central defense (especially the latter). Why is Klopp so convicted of these two players, one who he illegally tapped up and the other always a long shot to be sold? I hope this gambit works. I would have moved on by now, but John Henry doesn't reply to my email suggestions...
 

SocrManiac

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There's still smoke surrounding Coutinho to Barcelona. If that materializes, the window goes from failure to disaster.
 

Bosoxen

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Well, shit:

Barcelona have an agreement in principle to sign Philippe Coutinho from Liverpool for a base fee of €90 million (£81.6m) with bonuses that could bring the deal to €120m (£108.8m), sources close to the Catalan club told ESPN Deportes' Jordi Blanco.
 

JayMags71

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Why would they do that with Lallana out for two months AND CL qualifiers coming up next week? The only explanation that makes sense is if he was refusing to play.

If this is true, this offseason has taken a HUGE step backwards.
 

Schnerres

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The only reason that makes sense (= the only reason why I would do that) is that I would have an agreement with van Dijk+Southampton and another midfielder, so I improve the depth of the team plus improve another weakness (defense), while giving up a superstar on the stronger side of the ball.
(Or at least have an idea who to pick as a midfielder, but the van Dijk signing has to come soon, else this would be stupid.)
 

Bosoxen

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Trading their #1 way to score against a packed-in defense for a central defender is a bit of a head scratcher. That feels a little bit like punting the league in order to go all-in for CL - for which they haven't even yet qualified.

That's a bold strategy, Cotton.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I doubt that's Herr Klopp's strategy. Longer term getting €100m for one player could be pretty good- getting VVD and a couple of others of similar quality really fleshes out this squad.

But looks like a bad move for this season.
 

PedroSpecialK

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The ESPN sources have been repeatedly claiming Coutinho will be presented in 'a matter of hours' - for the past 2-3 days now. I don't think they're as well apprised as the Liverpool-based sources.
 

soxfan121

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I suspect that this isn't a club choice, but the player is driving the process.
I concur. Like it or not, Barcelona is still a couple steps up the pyramid from Pool. Getting 90 is key, as that represents a nice profit on the player and makes the shopping for a replacement less budget conscious.

Draxler from PSG (to make something up out of thin air)?
 

Mighty Joe Young

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All the Liverpool based media sources are in agreement that the club won't sell this window. It seems clear that Coutinho would like to go, but only if he can leave on good terms.

There's no way he could be replaced this window - so I suspect they will do what they did with Suarez - ask for one final year and then let him go in the summer of 2018 - giving them proper time to line up a replacement.
 

JayMags71

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James Pearce in an Empire of the Kop Podcast:

I don’t think I’ve ever known such contrasting reports (Catalan media vs people in Liverpool). The people at Liverpool are adamant there are no talks now. No change in position. There have been no talks between #LFC and Barca since the first bid in Hong Kong which was rejected. I just don’t see a position that LFC can justify selling Coutinho this window. Barca’s confidence stems from having 200m to burn. To sell Coutinho now would massively undermine Klopp. You couldn’t adequately replace Coutinho, it would undermine Klopp and be a hammer blow before the start of the season. My only worry with Coutinho is if he’s got Barca in his ear telling him “This is your one and only chance.” I don’t think that would be the case.
 

Nick Kaufman

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All the Liverpool based media sources are in agreement that the club won't sell this window. It seems clear that Coutinho would like to go, but only if he can leave on good terms.

There's no way he could be replaced this window - so I suspect they will do what they did with Suarez - ask for one final year and then let him go in the summer of 2018 - giving them proper time to line up a replacement.
If you have a superstar begging to go, there's no way to replace him for the simple reason that if a replacement of equal value was available in his position, the suitor club would have explored that option; if alternative option was as good or better, then he would have gone to the more prestigious club. So, if you want to find a CAM replacement, you need to to look for a up and coming player to bet on; he's going to be cheaper, but it's going to be a risky proposition. So, basically, you take the gazillion dollars you made off the transfer and just spreading bets among 3-4 players hoping that at least one is going to grow into a player of the same caliber. But that sets you back a couple of years.

Another option is to try getting a player of equal value who plays a different position. Also easier than done, but conceivably easier, as you looking to splurge on the biggest talent available.

I think that what's happening with the Van Dijk and Coutinho cases underscores how fucked up the structure of football is, if you care about all clubs having a shot at glory. It's just not the financial disparity; the smaller clubs don't have enough ways to take advantage of ineffiencies that will allow them to level the playing field against the bigger clubs.

And btw, I hate talking about Liverpool as a smaller club. But right now, Real/Barca are the pinnacle of the footballing world, then there's Bayern and then you can argue which of the English top for and PSG follows.
 

coremiller

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Am I crazy for thinking that Liverpool would be smart to sell Coutinho for 100m? Coutinho is really good, but he's not a superstar on the Neymar/Suarez level, or likely to grow into one like Dembele. He's already 25, so while he's coming into his prime years he's not likely to improve much more and his value is probably at his peak. And Liverpool badly need depth. If they can turn Coutinho into 3-4 additional quality players, that seems like good business to me.
 

JayMags71

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Am I crazy for thinking that Liverpool would be smart to sell Coutinho for 100m? Coutinho is really good, but he's not a superstar on the Neymar/Suarez level, or likely to grow into one like Dembele. He's already 25, so while he's coming into his prime years he's not likely to improve much more and his value is probably at his peak. And Liverpool badly need depth. If they can turn Coutinho into 3-4 additional quality players, that seems like good business to me.
Two months ago I would have agreed. If they want to finish in the top four, selling him now is madness.
 

SocrManiac

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I didn't want to dump this in the transfer rumors thread.

Salah was never meant as a Coutinho replacement. With Lallana out and Sturridge one rollover in bed away from a six week thigh strain, there is absolutely no depth up top. Henderson can't stay fit, Emre Can is frustratingly inconsistent, as are the center backs. The spine of the squad is looking awfully rickety.

Keita and Van Dijk would have made all the difference even with Coutinho off to Barca. I don't see how they'd improve on the 4th place finish even without CL. This has been a frustrating summer.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Sounds like he's handed in an official transfer request, so they are pretty much screwed. Just as Southampton will ultimately unload Van Dijk, it's impossible to see Liverpool not selling Coutinho - can't imagine players would flock to either club if they don't choose to respect the formal transfer request.

The only apparent option left would be to try and hijack Sigurdsson from Everton, or some other such replacement. Silver lining is it's still 20 days from the window closing, but the tie with Hoffenheim looms pretty large right now.

Liverpool has apparently rejected the transfer request


 
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Carbo Loading

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That doesn't seem to be worth much. Coutinho could just stay home, take whatever fines LFC impose, and just wait for Barça to reimburse him after a transfer, right?
Well, I think the "back injury" he has is him sitting out for now. LFC can play hardball on this. He just signed a 5 year contract. Also, with the World Cup next year, Coutinho still needs to play well this year to guarantee a spot on Brazil. He can't sit out or sulk all year. We'll see if LFC has the stones to stand their ground. If they let him go, what to stop someone like Firmino to do the same thing next year?
 

SocrManiac

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I think the footy world pays less attention to sulking players than it should. Leicester and Chelsea players tanked badly to get their managers sacked and rebounded nicely. Nobody seems to have faulted them for how awful they were.

I don't think Coutinho will have any difficulty keeping his spot. If he stays and gets playing time, I'd imagine his quality will increase significantly at the end of the year both for the WC and for the pending transfer.
 

JayMags71

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I don't think Coutinho will have any difficulty keeping his spot. If he stays and gets playing time, I'd imagine his quality will increase significantly at the end of the year both for the WC and for the pending transfer.
I don't either, but the tea leaves seem to imply he neither wants his spot, nor the playing time being offered to him by his current club.
 

PedroSpecialK

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The weird one is this leak from Coutinho's camp that he isn't happy with his role or his relationship with Klopp, given:
  • He's played in his preferred LW role aside from the last 2 games of this past season where he was on the left side of the diamond
  • Klopp has gone out of his way to talk up Coutinho at every turn
 

nolasoxfan

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The weird one is this leak from Coutinho's camp that he isn't happy with his role or his relationship with Klopp, given:
  • He's played in his preferred LW role aside from the last 2 games of this past season where he was on the left side of the diamond
  • Klopp has gone out of his way to talk up Coutinho at every turn
These family member tweets sound like convenient excuses. Barca is a--or the--premiere landing spot for a guy like Coutinho, and he’s going to do or say whatever it takes to get there.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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It makes you appreciate the honesty of Suarez, always maintaining that he just didn't like living in Liverpool.

Meantime, the transfer fee for Van Dijk is going to eat. Two more set piece goals just feels like ignoring an obvious problem at this stage.
 

PedroSpecialK

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It'll be nice when VAR is introduced in the Premier League, just in time for it to start costing Liverpool points
 

Schnerres

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You don´t sign a contract with your team (Liverpool) for 5 years and then complain after half a year that you want out. If there´s a better situation/more money/"your dream club" or whatever, you should have known earlier. Same applies to van Dijk, obviously, but with less money involved. If Liverpool (or Southampton) gets weak at sum X, they will let him go. Until then, the player has to stay.
And I would stick his contract up his a**, or like Leipzig said a few months ago "we can send a copy of Emils (Forsberg) contract to his agent, if he forgot how long the contract runs.", as Forsberg said he wants to leave for a new challenge (@milan) and his agent said Leipzig are ruining his life and dreams.
If Liverpool wants him to stay, there is no reason I let him leave. Not now, not next summer. Next summer, you can at least look out for a replacement with more time.

I don´t know if CL qualification matches count as official matches (I would think so), so it will be interesting to see if Coutinho will play vs.Hoffenheim.
 

SocrManiac

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Contracts don’t mean a damn thing in football when Barca or Real come calling.

LFC’s flaws seem the same regardless of personnel or coaching. I don’t get it anymore.
 

Cellar-Door

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Contracts don’t mean a damn thing in football when Barca or Real come calling.

LFC’s flaws seem the same regardless of personnel or coaching. I don’t get it anymore.
Or any team really, all a contract usually means is that the team can command a higher fee. Every level of club can force a move with clubs a tier or 2 down.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Qualification matches do not cup-tie Coutinho - I would expect him on the bench at least in leg 2 if he's around.