Liverpool 2018-19: Alisson, I Know Lovren is Killing You

Mighty Joe Young

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Everyone talks about Butland, but for me the pick of the English Keepers is Nick Pope at Burnley. To be fair I watched a lot more Burnley matches than i did Stoke or Everton, but I think Nick Pope is class. I'm trying to find comparative stats but i'm sure i read on the BBC that he has a better save % than Butland. When Tom Heaton got injured at Burnley, Pope got the nod and kept the place. He's still got room to improve and i think he will improve.

If Pope has a good season at Burnley he'll go for the big bucks.
He certainly impressed in the (admittedly few) Burnley games I watched. Seems to me one of the most important keeper attributes that Klopp demands is ball distribution. Pope seems really good at shot stopping but I don’t recall if Pope has this in his arsenal.

Liverpool are reported to be “interested” for what it’s worth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5826467/amp/Liverpool-ready-make-15m-bid-Nick-Pope-look-resolve-goalkeeping-problems.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Concerning L’Affairre Fekir ..

After reading today’s postmortems in the various UK papers it seems the medical was the main stumbling block and there were subsequent negotiations on restructuring the fee. However, there seems to be a divergence of opinion on which side initiated the renegotiations. I suppose it only matters if the deal is revisited after the WC. The fact that both sides appeared willing to renegotiate tells you there could be a subsequent deal.
 

SocrManiac

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I saw a great piece on Burnley that explained how their defensive style essentially gifts low percentage shots from 25 yards, center of the pitch. It lead to a high save percentage for Pope as he gets a lot of simple shots with plenty of reaction time.

Not saying he isn’t a good get or an upgrade, but Burnley’s system is going to make that stat deceptive.
 

koufax32

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I assume Fekir has not changed his mind about wanting to come to Anfield.

This will happen. Only a matter of when.
 

fletcherpost

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He certainly impressed in the (admittedly few) Burnley games I watched. Seems to me one of the most important keeper attributes that Klopp demands is ball distribution. Pope seems really good at shot stopping but I don’t recall if Pope has this in his arsenal.

Liverpool are reported to be “interested” for what it’s worth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5826467/amp/Liverpool-ready-make-15m-bid-Nick-Pope-look-resolve-goalkeeping-problems.html?__twitter_impression=true
£15m for Pope is a steal IMO, but i reckon Burnley would be daft to sell him for that. Either way, he's defo worth watching next season if he stays at Burnley. Another season under Dyche won't hurt him. Dyche is one of the coaches that can actually bring players on. Dyche raved about him in a few interviews...but next season I'll be looking out for his distribution. I don't want hm going somewhere to be a number 2, not when i think he's a future England number 1.
 

fletcherpost

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While you may be right about Pope, I just assumed Butland would be an easier lift. Or, is that not how transfers after relegation work?
You're right. No one expects Butland to be starting for Stoke next season. He could go for anything between £20M - £30M - i just prefer Pope and £20M probably gets it done. Are Arsenal looking for a goalie? I think there might be a bit of a EPL goalie merry go round in the next couple of seasons. I'm like most people of sound mind, in that I didn't watch any Stoke Matches last season. Okay i watched a couple but they were wiped from my memory a while back.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I’m going to be disappointed if Liverpool fans don’t have a Naby Keita song to the tune of Navigator by the Pogues.

“Naby Keita, Naby Keita, rise up and be strong”
 

Mighty Joe Young

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SocrManiac

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In order for a team to steal a CL from one of the money clubs, you need a great goalkeeper to have a great game. To really compete for the domestic title, you need a great goalkeeper to have a solid season. LFC don't have either, but they still did well in the league and exceeded all expectations in the CL.

Multi-tool goalkeepers are exceedingly rare. Buffon will forever be the model for me. He was at least above average in each key area and maintained that for an incredibly long time. His reactions still haven't faltered. His diminishing range (probably average at best now) is offset by an absolutely uncanny ability to set up his defense. You see him wave defenders in his peripheral vision a step in this or that direction, and the next thing you see is a cross and a shot blocked by the man he just moved. It's spooky. He could play out with his feet, more as a testament to pure athletic ability and experience than any special talent. The demands of Juventus's system and strength of his sides have allowed his distribution to remain very simple. His ability to collect crosses is probably what fell off a cliff more than anything.

The additional demands required by the modern game, such as the ability to play as an eleventh outfield man, really thin the herd. Shot-stopping used to be the first (and seemingly obvious) strength in a keeper. For some managers, that's no longer the case. Pep brought both Claudio Bravo and Ederson to City. Neither are world class (or even "great") shot stoppers. It's going to be up to Klopp to determine what his priorities are in a keeper. The preference for Karius over Mignolet seemed to be borne from the desire to have a capable outfield player at the back, though Karius never displayed any significant upgrade in that area.

So, what does an ideal goalkeeper look for this team?

The addition of van Dijk simplifies matters significantly. He's going to marshal the defense. If anything, a strongly opinionated goalkeeper would likely clash with his style. He and Karius did not mesh at all. How many times did we see van Dijk signalling Karius to collect, then have to scramble to cover when the keeper wasn't coming? Or the opposite- clearing when Karius had called because he didn't trust the man behind him? That confusion and lack of trust did not improve in the slightest over time.

Klopp still wants a keeper that can play with his feet. I'm not sure I see that as an absolute requirement with his system, the strength of van Dijk, and how the majority of sides play against Liverpool. Distribution, on the other hand, is an absolute must. The ideal keeper needs to be able to hit quickly and accurately with the counter or slow things down as appropriate. That's another clash you often saw, with players trying to move Karius into a quick counter or to sit on the ball.

I guess I'm somewhat old school. I'd like to see great shot stopper at the back. Nothing builds trust in a side more than to know that a goalkeeper can absorb mistakes and pick them up. The younger guys would benefit hugely, as would the confidence-driven Lovren. The synergistic gain would be significant.

Alisson is a multi-tool keeper. I'd rate him as a very good/great shot stopper. He can play with his feet, though his decision making can be suspect. He's good with his defense. Very good distribution. I don't think he's worth 80, but 60 is probably about right in today's market with the dearth of world class talent.

I really think Pope or Butland would fit the bill. Both guys can stop shots. They aren't counted on to organize their defenses, so you aren't overpaying for a skill that you already shelled out for in van Dijk. They play for sides that have to rely on counterattacks, to their distribution in that area should be strong enough. I don't know enough about either guy to comment on whether or not they have Klopp's white whale of the ability to play with their feet. That seeming blind spot for Klopp is really frustrating for me. I don't think you gain anywhere near enough goals over the course of a season with a footskilled goalkeeper as you lose with a suboptimal shot stopper.
 

JayMags71

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Distribution, on the other hand, is an absolute must. The ideal keeper needs to be able to hit quickly and accurately with the counter or slow things down as appropriate. That's another clash you often saw, with players trying to move Karius into a quick counter or to sit on the ball.
This was our undoing, in a sense, when you onsider how that first goal happened. I know Karius was probably concussed, but Karius had problems in that area anyway.
 

SocrManiac

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Since news of the concussion, my searing hatred of Karius has diminished significantly. Regardless of his legitimate excuse, I think he's damaged beyond salvage at this club. He's never been a mentally strong goalkeeper. He doesn't display confidence at the best of times and we've seen him crushed by mistakes in the past. I don't think he has the fortitude to recover.

Regardless, at his best he was never good enough. Wipe the goalkeeper slate clean, fire the hell out of Achterberg, and start over.
 

wonderland

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What’s going on with Kevin Trapp? I know he lost his job last year but was it performance or Areola just better or club politics (wanting a homegrown keeper)?
 

67YAZ

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Butland had milling season overall, and a lot was made of a howler he let up against Leicester that cost Stoke 2 valuable points. But, to be fair, the entire Stoke team was poor this season, and Butland faced a lot more pressure than other keepers being bandied about.

Butland makes £50k/wk. I wonder if Stoke feel like they can manage those wages for a season in an effort to bounce back up or at least rebuild some of Butland's value. I think it's smart of Butland to keep his head down and focus on World Cup preparations, but being around a different squad for a long while is likely to influence his thinking.
 

SocrManiac

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My three year old son loves Liverpool and is obsessed with purple. He's going to end up with one of these, I'm sure.
 

pedro1918

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Map Ref. 41°N 93°W
2017-2018 EPL Schedule

August

11 – West Ham United (H)
18 – Crystal Palace (A)
25 – Brighton and Hove Albion (H)

September
1 – Leicester City (A)
15 – Tottenham Hotspur (A) (First game at new Spurs Stadium)
22 – Southampton (H)
29 – Chelsea (A)

October
6 – Manchester City (H)
20 – Huddersfield Town (A)
27 – Cardiff City (H)

November
3 – Arsenal (A)
10 – Fulham (H)
24 – Watford (A)

December
1 – Everton (H)
4 – Burnley (A)
8 – Bournemouth (A)
15 – Manchester United (H)
22 – Wolverhampton Wanderers (A)
26 – Newcastle United (H)
29 - Arsenal (H)

January
1 – Manchester City (A)
12 – Brighton and Hove Albion (A)
19 – Crystal Palace (H)
30 – Leicester City (H)

February
2 – West Ham United (A)
9 – Bournemouth (H)
23 – Manchester United (A)
27 – Watford (H)

March
2 – Everton (A)
9 – Burnley (H)
16 – Fulham (A)
30 – Tottenham Hotspur (H)

April
6 – Southampton (A)
13 – Chelsea (H)
20 – Cardiff City (A)
27 – Huddersfield Town (H)

May
4 – Newcastle United (A)
12 – Wolverhampton Wanderers (H)
 

MiracleOfO2704

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December
1 – Everton (H)
4 – Burnley (A)
8 – Bournemouth (A)
15 – Manchester United (H)
22 – Wolverhampton Wanderers (A)
26 – Newcastle United (H)
29 - Arsenal (H)

January
1 – Manchester City (A)
12 – Brighton and Hove Albion (A)
19 – Crystal Palace (H)
30 – Leicester City (H)
Ugh, the Boxing Day/NYD fixtures list could be brutal, depending on which teams LFC are drawn with in the UCL. Matchday 6 should be right before the MUFC match.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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67YAZ

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Can to Juve complete. Reported figures are £4m/season plus £14m signing on bonus. The clever folks at This Is Anfield says this is equal to £220k/wk. Good for you, Emre. Definitely other ways to spend that kind of dough.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Good for Emre, ran down his contract without creating unnecessary drama, and turned his situation into a much more lucrative deal for himself.

I doubt he’d have gotten more than half of £220k weekly from Liverpool under the same term - not to mention the £14m signing on is more than Liverpool paid for him to begin with.

With Keita and Fabinho coming in as well as possibly a CAM, despite Oxlade-Chamberlain’s injury I’ve still got very high hopes for this midfield
 

Schnerres

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What about the signing on bonus? He went there for free. If Juve pays him that, so be it, why count it on his wage? That´s like having players´ transfer sums count into their wages, which nobody does.
 

slamminsammya

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What about the signing on bonus? He went there for free. If Juve pays him that, so be it, why count it on his wage? That´s like having players´ transfer sums count into their wages, which nobody does.
Not sure what you mean by nobody. I am pretty sure all teams do this when valuing players.
 

67YAZ

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I’m sure Can’s agent called up LFC and said, “Juve is giving £34m over the next 5 years. Care to match it?”
 
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Schnerres

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Not sure what you mean by nobody. I am pretty sure all teams do this when valuing players.
I read that van Dijk is on a 170k (or 180k) wage/week. And the number definitely never says something like 400k per week or 20mil pounds per season.

Of course clubs calculate everything over the length of the contract (=75mil+~9mil.*6=~130mil.pounds over 6 years). But there´s no number in the media, would only make everything worse.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Mighty Joe Young

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SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
I doubt it's a coincidence that the Fekir talks are heating up again right around July 1st. For accounting purposes, Lyon probably wanted any sale proceeds to go into 2018-19 rather than 2017-18. When the move fell apart, the one thing the Lyon leadership was adamant about was he would not be moving prior to the World Cup, likely for that accounting/FFP reason.
 

CPT Neuron

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Lots of chatter on thisisanfield.com regarding the "howler" from Markus in the 2nd half of today's friendly with Tranmere. How much more rope does he get. Not sure the Kop will be forgiving at this point - they have to buy a new keeper, right?!?
 

SocrManiac

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Karius is burnt toast and his confidence can’t be salvaged in England. He’s always been emotional and he’s simply destroyed. LFC can’t enter the next year with him as a #1 and probably not as the #2, either.
 

SocrManiac

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Man, I hate thisisanfield.com. Such a cesspool of negativity. And I'm a negative person.

Here's Karius's latest:
Just look at the body language. He's defeated.
 

CPT Neuron

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https://www.thisisanfield.com/2018/07/liverpool-agree-fee-with-stoke-for-xherdan-shaqiri-medical-plans-set/

Seems Shaqiri is imminent - nice depth signing on a steal (13 millionish) for a player of his caliber.....hope this doesn't mean the Welsh Wonder Boy, Wilson, goes off on loan again. I suppose that regular first team time in meaningful games is the best development wise, but the kid seems be be a real talent and Klopp seems to groom talent well, so it would be very nice to see what he could develop in to under consistent and constant Klopp tutelage.
 

67YAZ

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I'll be interested to see the wages, but it's very good business on the transfer fee. He's the kind of quality rotation player that Liverpool severely lacked last season. Luckily for Klopp, the squad's attackers stayed quite healthy, except Mane's early hamstring issue and Salah's take down in the CL Final. Moreover, the fellas up top are going to need some extra rest with consecutive 50+ match season sandwiching a World Cup summer.

Edit: As for the defense, yeesh. Those boys need reinforcements and better luck on the injury front.
 

CPT Neuron

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To Echo my own point, this is an absolute brilliant signing for the price. With regards to the defense, it looks like their health has significantly improved, and I am still very excited to see what Gomez can do as an out-and-out centre-back as opposed to a centre-back playing as right back to cover for injuries. Also, his continued health is vital. I see him as the ideal centre-back partner moving forward for big Virgil.
 

koufax32

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To Echo my own point, this is an absolute brilliant signing for the price. With regards to the defense, it looks like their health has significantly improved, and I am still very excited to see what Gomez can do as an out-and-out centre-back as opposed to a centre-back playing as right back to cover for injuries. Also, his continued health is vital. I see him as the ideal centre-back partner moving forward for big Virgil.
I’m personally hoping for an upgrade from closing my eyes when he takes on an attacker to merely wincing.
Why the optimism? Not challenging you but genuinely curious what you see in his game that gives you reason for hope.


Referring to Gomez. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I'll be interested to see the wages, but it's very good business on the transfer fee. He's the kind of quality rotation player that Liverpool severely lacked last season. Luckily for Klopp, the squad's attackers stayed quite healthy, except Mane's early hamstring issue and Salah's take down in the CL Final. Moreover, the fellas up top are going to need some extra rest with consecutive 50+ match season sandwiching a World Cup summer.

Edit: As for the defense, yeesh. Those boys need reinforcements and better luck on the injury front.
I think I read today he will be on £120,000 a week .. which is not chicken feed.

In many ways he was kind of a free transfer who could command a big salary.
 

67YAZ

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I think I read today he will be on £120,000 a week .. which is not chicken feed.

In many ways he was kind of a free transfer who could command a big salary.
That’s not as bad as it thought it could be given the low fee (eg, £150k/week in the current market). But it only really becomes an issue if he flops and becomes unmovable (eg, Sturridge). There’s still Wilson, Woodburn, and Ojo waiting in the wings, so to speak, as cheaper replacements.