Markelle Fultz, Year Three: He's back! Big....?

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Not that Kornheiser or Wilbon add any sophisticated analysis, but the PTI crew are on the case. (BTW, in this day and age of information, people really listen to them still?)

 

chilidawg

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Complete fantasy, but yes, of course you would trade the LAL/SAC pick for Fultz. What would we peg the odds that the pick is a 2-5 pick in 18 or 19? I think Lakers eek out enough wins that they sit in the 6 or 7 spot this year. And SAC pick next year? Who the hell knows.
This would result in the Sixers essentially having given away the 3rd pick in the draft. The uproar in Philly would be hilarious.
 

InstaFace

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Not that Kornheiser or Wilbon add any sophisticated analysis, but the PTI crew are on the case. (BTW, in this day and age of information, people really listen to them still?)
I could always take or leave Wilbon - he's a good foil but little more. However, Tony Kornheiser is one of the most listenable and thoughtful among the group of people paid to rant about sports on TV. His radio show in DC is pretty legendary. What might be packaged in the form and appearance of a hot take is usually backed up by some careful consideration, if and when they bother to explain themselves. You can do far worse than listening to them.
 

DJnVa

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Wilbon knows the NBA though. If there's a sport to listen to him on, it's NBA stuff.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I could always take or leave Wilbon - he's a good foil but little more. However, Tony Kornheiser is one of the most listenable and thoughtful among the group of people paid to rant about sports on TV. His radio show in DC is pretty legendary. What might be packaged in the form and appearance of a hot take is usually backed up by some careful consideration, if and when they bother to explain themselves. You can do far worse than listening to them.
Uncle Tony's radio show was great; I'm actually sorry I can't catch it anymore. But most of the great parts were non-sports related. Tony's forte was never sports itself; it was the observations tangential to sports. Like the whole about not saying "How are you" because no one actually gives a crap.

Wilbon had some great NBA contacts (I presume he still does but don't know for sure) but not much else to me. I mean his whole thing about Fultz redshirting - what does that even mean in the NBA?

I can't imagine listening to them spend 30 minutes arguing about sports.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, I haven't watched the show much in years, and they are both smart guys, but as generalists, they rarely have much insight on any specific situations. They are both way better than Francesa, but he's been a clueless blowhard for a long long time now (he was amazing early on).
 

SumnerH

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Yeah, I haven't watched the show much in years, and they are both smart guys, but as generalists, they rarely have much insight on any specific situations. They are both way better than Francesa, but he's been a clueless blowhard for a long long time now (he was amazing early on).
They used to be on right before (or right after, I forget) Around the Horn, at the time hosted by Max Kellerman and generally featuring some set of Jay Mariotti/Woody Paige/Bill Plaschke/Bob Ryan as panelists.

Kornheiser and Wilbon looked like supergeniuses by comparison.
 

jon abbey

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They used to be on right before (or right after, I forget) Around the Horn, at the time hosted by Max Kellerman and generally featuring some set of Jay Mariotti/Woody Paige/Bill Plaschke/Bob Ryan as panelists.

Kornheiser and Wilbon looked like supergeniuses by comparison.
Heh, yeah, right after and that is a good point. This is also my theory behind why John Sterling still has the Yankee radio job, as he's one of the few people who makes Michael Kay look good by comparison.
 

kenneycb

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Wilbon has gone into cranky old man status at this point. Tony is fine enough. They’re entertaining enough together because they have good chemistry. Worse ways to spend 30 minutes. Highly Questionable is still my favorite, especially once they get to the second segment. Papi is the greatest.
 

blueline

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Uncle Tony's radio show was great; I'm actually sorry I can't catch it anymore. But most of the great parts were non-sports related. Tony's forte was never sports itself; it was the observations tangential to sports. Like the whole about not saying "How are you" because no one actually gives a crap.
His radio show is a podcast now. Pretty much the same show.

http://www.tonykornheisershow.com/
 

Ed Hillel

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Jesus, this is BRUTAL:
Brett Brown was asked if Markelle Fultz needed to be 100 percent physically to return to the court. His immediate response: “I think what he needs to be is able to shoot a basketball.
 

queenb

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Has anyone here dealt with just regular old shoulder impingement? Maybe you feel a pinch or some shooting pain once or twice while you're doing an overhead press with the bench at a certain angle, and you just go away from it for awhile, or never see a reason to go back to it when there's other stuff you could do, because you've developed a fear that you're gonna tear something or dislocate your shoulder? I assume that's common.

What if he tried out a new shooting motion and release--per the suggestion of a coach or a trainer--and felt something weird and now feels like he can't get the ball that high without risking a pinch, which he maybe thinks will do lasting damage to his shoulder?

I understand everyone is different and he's dealing with a level of pressure and scrutiny I can't imagine, but strictly speaking the yips just don't make sense to me. Why can't he at the very least revert to this old release in practice? Do we really think the coaches have told him not to? Seems at this point they'd realize the tinkering wasn't productive and that they'd rather have the old Fultz out there. I guess this is another way of saying that I do think it's mental, but I suspect the root might be pain or injury avoidance. I don't know what you do about that.
 

DannyDarwinism

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This shot-put is from today. Put the ugly release aside for a second-I have no idea why a "scapular imbalance" would cause his base to be all out of whack. This is crazy.
 

chilidawg

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Has anyone here dealt with just regular old shoulder impingement? Maybe you feel a pinch or some shooting pain once or twice while you're doing an overhead press with the bench at a certain angle, and you just go away from it for awhile, or never see a reason to go back to it when there's other stuff you could do, because you've developed a fear that you're gonna tear something or dislocate your shoulder? I assume that's common.

What if he tried out a new shooting motion and release--per the suggestion of a coach or a trainer--and felt something weird and now feels like he can't get the ball that high without risking a pinch, which he maybe thinks will do lasting damage to his shoulder?

I understand everyone is different and he's dealing with a level of pressure and scrutiny I can't imagine, but strictly speaking the yips just don't make sense to me. Why can't he at the very least revert to this old release in practice? Do we really think the coaches have told him not to? Seems at this point they'd realize the tinkering wasn't productive and that they'd rather have the old Fultz out there. I guess this is another way of saying that I do think it's mental, but I suspect the root might be pain or injury avoidance. I don't know what you do about that.
I've had shoulder impingement issues, had surgery to relieve it. I don't recall it being an occasional twinge thing, more like everytime I'd raise an arm it would be sore. Never really painful, but always there. Surgeon was concerned it would lead to further rotator cuff issues and recommended surgery. Took out 3/4" of bone spur. Better now, but not 100%.
 

Sprowl

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His jump shot is closer to a set shot, and the point of release is a foot lower than in his college highlights. Either he is hurt or he has been watching too much Trae Young.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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What's the point of having him travel and run 5 on 5 drills with the team at the point? Doesn't it make more sense to shut him down from the usual routine and just have him live, eat and breath shooting until he sorts it out? Keep him out of the spotlight too.
 

queenb

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I've had shoulder impingement issues, had surgery to relieve it. I don't recall it being an occasional twinge thing, more like everytime I'd raise an arm it would be sore. Never really painful, but always there. Surgeon was concerned it would lead to further rotator cuff issues and recommended surgery. Took out 3/4" of bone spur. Better now, but not 100%.
This seems as plausible as anything for Fultz. That he has some pain or soreness -- or fears he will feel it -- with his old release. I mean it makes no sense that he's releasing the ball so low and away from his body now.
 

benhogan

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If healthy, would the 76ers let him play G-league games to work on his shot?

It might be slightly embarrassing to send him down, but the 76ers will be fighting for a chance to make the playoffs. I could see Brett Brown stapling Markelle to the pine with that hitch in his shot.

Maybe it's better to get him lots of minutes w/out the glare of the NBA.
 

sezwho

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What's the point of having him travel and run 5 on 5 drills with the team at the point? Doesn't it make more sense to shut him down from the usual routine and just have him live, eat and breath shooting until he sorts it out? Keep him out of the spotlight too.
Lord yes! Please go to an empty gym with your shot coach and don't come back until it doesn't cause either of them to wince, even on a miss. Its got to be really weird for this bunch of young players (who've largely only known team failure at this level) watching the slow motion car crash of their missing piece.

It reminds me of the little girl who forgot the words to the Anthem and Maurice Cheeks saved her...someone needs to Calgon Fultz away from all this.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If healthy, would the 76ers let him play G-league games to work on his shot?

It might be slightly embarrassing to send him down, but the 76ers will be fighting for a chance to make the playoffs. I could see Brett Brown stapling Markelle to the pine with that hitch in his shot.

Maybe it's better to get him lots of minutes w/out the glare of the NBA.
Fultz doesn't need minutes at this point. As Brett Brown said, he needs to be able to shoot a basketball. He doesn't need an NBA game or a G-League game to do this.......the poor kid can't even do this alone in a gym right now.
 

JCizzle

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Fultz doesn't need minutes at this point. As Brett Brown said, he needs to be able to shoot a basketball. He doesn't need an NBA game or a G-League game to do this.......the poor kid can't even do this alone in a gym right now.
Yeah, even the 20 second pregame videos get torn apart... putting him on tape for an entire game would be disastrous for his confidence. He needs to get off social media and get whatever type of help he needs (be it mental or physical). The Celtics have Hayward seeing someone, I hope the sixers are doing the same if needed.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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What the hell is Brown thinking with that quote? I like him as a coach and I get that he must be frustrated. However that is simply inexcusable given all the scrutiny around this kid and the team.
 

I am an Idiot

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It almost sounds like someone talking about Josh Hamilton. I know there’s been no rumor of that kind of thing but that’s what I hear when I hear coaches talking about him reclaiming what made him a #1 pick. I dunno. Wild and baseless speculation but that’s what I imagine I’m hearing.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah, that doesn't sound like talking about someone coming back from an injury, that sounds like dealing with someone with some kind of "mental" thing going on.
 

HomeRunBaker

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None of this makes sense:
What part doesn't make sense? Brown is acknowledging what we all suspect that this is more mental than anything else and that he's trying to assimilate the physical/mental affects of playing 35 minutes in an NBA game to get him back to feeling "normal" again.

There is not a good track record of success in athletes overcoming the Yips once it becomes this severe. Right now you don't even trade Dwight Buycks for him......his value is nil.
 

bsj

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This is crazy. There was a time when I thought Fultz was going to be a transcendent talent in this league.

This is why Ainge does what he does and I dont.
 

Ed Hillel

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It certainly sounds like an anxiety disorder. Some people get over them with time and move forward like it never happened, while others never get over it and can things can spiral out of control. Hopefully this is limited to his basketball game, at least, and doesn’t impact him in other personal areas, though I know this is probably the biggest part of his life.
 

JCizzle

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Some more from yesterday. I think the first contested shot in the first clip looks kinda normal actually? The three from the second clip though, not so much.


 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Some more from yesterday. I think the first contested shot in the first clip looks kinda normal actually? The three from the second clip though, not so much.
It's almost like he shhots fine when he's not thinking about it but when he has to think about it, it's all messed up. To EH's point, I hope PHI is getting him to talk to someone on a very confidential basis.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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We have very little information about Fultz' condition or situation. However I will be shocked if he plays again this season given what we've seen/heard.

It strikes me that the optimal way for him to work is way "back" is to do so away from the glare of the spotlight. The next actual NBA game he appears in is almost certain to be an event, replete with all sorts of extra coverage and attention. Unless they get him right and its tested against game-like conditions, there is no way I would want him near a real Association contest anytime soon.
 

RetractableRoof

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We have very little information about Fultz' condition or situation. However I will be shocked if he plays again this season given what we've seen/heard.

It strikes me that the optimal way for him to work is way "back" is to do so away from the glare of the spotlight. The next actual NBA game he appears in is almost certain to be an event, replete with all sorts of extra coverage and attention. Unless they get him right and its tested against game-like conditions, there is no way I would want him near a real Association contest anytime soon.
Agreed 100%. This kid shouldn't be allowed to be on camera again until 9/10 dentists are ready to recommend him. No person deserves to live in the sort of fishbowl this is becoming - no matter what team he plays for.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah, it seems odd that there are so many videos of his form out there right now. You'd think it best if that wasn't happening. Either way invites questions, but this gives visual evidence to back up the rumors.
 

allstonite

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It was mentioned upthread but he did disappear for a couple months after his first few games until a couple weeks ago. I wonder if the medical staff gave the all clear and they thought it was time for him to start working with the team again. It’s just failed miserably and he should probably go back into hiding
 

djbayko

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The post about not trading Marcus Smart for him may have been hyperbole (maybe), but I would not trade the Lakers/Sac pick back for him straight up. No way.

Put it this way. If the troubles he's having right now had occurred before the draft and word got out, how far would his stock have fallen?

I'll take my chances on a pick that might not convey. At least you get to start fresh with someone who isn't having a near-historically difficult time transitioning into your league - even if their perceived talent level and ceiling aren't as high. I realize the potential for this post to look ridiculous in a few years' time, but we don't have a crystal ball, unfortunately.
 
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Bob420

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I would be interested in seeing him play a back yard pickup game with a few beers flowing.
 

Gash Prex

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I think it’s crazy this hasn’t gotten more attention on the national scene - the #1 nba pick has actually lost his shot completely (as confirmed by his coach today) - that is completely mind blowing. The Sixers fans seem to be in denial. I don’t know if it’s because people feel bad but it’s unprecedented in the NBA.
 

Marciano490

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Has anyone ever come back from this? I know someone mentioned Anderson. What was Greinke like under pressure when anxious? Was he missing by a ton or just giving up a lot of runs, and how’d he get better?
 

Sportsbstn

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This is crazy. There was a time when I thought Fultz was going to be a transcendent talent in this league.

This is why Ainge does what he does and I dont.
I don’t think Ainge or anyone in the world saw this level of meltdown coming. It’s borderline tragic.

This is Rick Ankiel pitching meltdown territory