Markelle Fultz, Year Three: He's back! Big....?

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Ainge said his usual GM-speak following the Fultz visit by confidently saying at the conclusion, "He’s talented, I didn’t find anything today that I didn’t already know, which is the same case with almost every draft workout. … He has a personality, has some charisma, he’s fun.” Read into the bold as you wish.....to some it may have meaning to others not so, I find his choice of words interesting as if he already knew he had Tatum > Fultz prior to even meeting with Tatum in Boston. Was it Tatum's skillset or the fact that our backcourt was already loaded 4-deep? One could argue that with all else equal Tatum was the obvious choice based on roster fit which I feel certainly "could" have been a factor.
Agree with your post - to add to it, remember how Austin Ainge emphasizes that they track these kids for years so they have a great deal of info on them even before the draft process.

In addition to the bolded, DA also said in his post-workout comments: "I learned that his scoring average is really good against a chair. Good shooting percentages against a chair. High efficiency.”

I've got my theory and I'm sticking to it. Never know if I'm right or wrong, which is the great thing about internet messageboarding.
 

The Needler

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My favorite quote from Ainge about the pick is this: “We're getting the player we want," he said. "They're getting the player they want. And we'll get an additional player that we want in next year's draft or the year after... But yeah, these trades are always based on what players those players turn out to be. And we'll all be judged on days like this. And I'm not afraid of that."

Everyone knew, even Danny and LondonSox, that these players would be forever compared.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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It's important to remember the timeline for all of this. Ainge was cold on Fultz from the minute we won the draft lottery in refusing to even mention him by name despite being pressed on it. Fultz spent two days in Boston on June 5 & 6. After leaving Boston, the Fultz camp scheduled the Sixers workout which wouldn't occur if Ainge lets them know he's his guy......but the big tell here is that this all occurred prior to Ainge having Tatum in for HIS workout and meetings in Boston which didn't take place until the morning of June 12th. Later that afternoon the trade with the Sixers was announced so clearly there was dialogue in place and it seems that the Tatum visit was simply a formality as the Celtics brass already knew him well through their Dukie contacts, most notably owner co-owner Steve Pagliuca who remains very close to Coach K and that program. Between Ainge's words on lottery night, already having a deal lined up prior to Tatum's workout and the positions they play on the floor, I don't find any reason to doubt that Danny knew from the get go that he wasn't drafting Markelle Fultz.

Ainge said his usual GM-speak following the Fultz visit by confidently saying at the conclusion, "He’s talented, I didn’t find anything today that I didn’t already know, which is the same case with almost every draft workout. … He has a personality, has some charisma, he’s fun.” Read into the bold as you wish.....to some it may have meaning to others not so, I find his choice of words interesting as if he already knew he had Tatum > Fultz prior to even meeting with Tatum in Boston. Was it Tatum's skillset or the fact that our backcourt was already loaded 4-deep? One could argue that with all else equal Tatum was the obvious choice based on roster fit which I feel certainly "could" have been a factor.

As an aside to this entire thing was the 11th hour attempted meeting with Josh Jackson in LA where Ainge, Stevens, and Zarren flew cross-country the week of the draft only to have to turn around and return leading Ainge to state that he was mad at how the entire thing went down. With the timing of the Tatum workout and trade announcement this sounds more like due diligence on Ainge's part, as this is his job, rather than having it down between Tatum and Jackson. Full disclosure.....I've changed my opinion on this since the day it occurred once Tatum's timeline was confirmed.
Nice summary, and it should put the "Danny knew the kid was nuts!!!1!" talk.

Now, can we please focus on the shit that actually matters? The fucking cheese fries?
 

nighthob

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As an aside to this entire thing was the 11th hour attempted meeting with Josh Jackson in LA where Ainge, Stevens, and Zarren flew cross-country the week of the draft only to have to turn around and return leading Ainge to state that he was mad at how the entire thing went down. With the timing of the Tatum workout and trade announcement this sounds more like due diligence on Ainge's part, as this is his job, rather than having it down between Tatum and Jackson. Full disclosure.....I've changed my opinion on this since the day it occurred once Tatum's timeline was confirmed.
I’ve always said that the Jackson workout was part of Plan B if LA came to its senses and drafted Tatum.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’ve always said that the Jackson workout was part of Plan B if LA came to its senses and drafted Tatum.
Great point. Contrary to what a poster said upthread the Lakers never publicly said they were selecting Ball. I'm sure Ainge was relieved when he found out this to be happening.
 

The Needler

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I've only watched the second half of their exhibition against some Australian team, but Fultz is 2-2 from the line (and looked much smoother), and 1-2 on pullups from about 15-17 feet. He does appear to have improved his from significantly based on those four data points.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I watched the game, definitely encouraging for Fultz. He’s clearly still reluctant to shoot from range- he passed up a bunch of long jumpers when his man sagged off or went under screens- but he’s miles ahead of where he was in terms of confidence. Form on the mid range jumper looks good, free throws are improved, but still need work. Other than the shooting saw a lot of what I saw at Washington- he’s great at getting to the rim and incredibly fast with the ball in transition. John Wall-esque. He needs the quick release pull up from range to reach his potential, but I’d be pretty happy with the progress if I were a Sixers fan.
 

DJnVa

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LondonSox disclaimer: I'm rooting for the kid.

Actual questions--is finding space to get shot off against a team from Melbourne, Australia the same as doing it against an NBA closeout?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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LondonSox disclaimer: I'm rooting for the kid.

Actual questions--is finding space to get shot off against a team from Melbourne, Australia the same as doing it against an NBA closeout?
You know this, man!

I am rooting for him too but NBA defenders are going to close out on him much faster than this. Lets hope he can replicate this performance against that level of competition.
 

benhogan

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I'm not rooting for Markelle at all. Sorry, but didn't we play the Sixers in the playoffs last season? I'm also hoping that Simmons and Embiid brick 3pointers all season long.

Not rooting for Markelle doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a Celtics fan.

Frankly, I could care less about how Sixers fans feel about our players. I wouldn't expect them to be concerned when Smart launches ill-advised treys, gets shown pulling bong hits on youtube or has emotional outbursts/smashes picture frames with his right fist.

I hope Philly stinks and goes 0-82. If we don't get Sacremento's pick we get theirs.
 

ManicCompression

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I’m rooting for Markelle because the nba is better when it has an abundance of great players. We wouldn’t have enjoyed the 80s Celtics as much if they didn’t have to face Dr. J and Magic. If I only wanted to watch a bloodbath every night, I’d root for the Globetrotters. Competition is fun.

Here’s to Markelle figuring it out and Simmons getting a jumper - but not so much that they beat the Cs in the ECF.
 

DJnVa

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I'm not rooting for Markelle at all. Sorry, but didn't we play the Sixers in the playoffs last season? I'm also hoping that Simmons and Embiid brick 3pointers all season long.

Not rooting for Markelle doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you a Celtics fan.

Frankly, I could care less about how Sixers fans feel about our players. I wouldn't expect them to be concerned when Smart launches ill-advised treys, gets shown pulling bong hits on youtube or has emotional outbursts/smashes picture frames with his right fist.

I hope Philly stinks and goes 0-82. If we don't get Sacremento's pick we get theirs.
I hope the go 0-82 as well. I’m simply saying that if the dude has a mental thing, that kinda sucks. He can get over that and still lose.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yep. I want the sixers to suck but I'm rooting for the kid to figure it out.
Let’s compromise and hope he never had any mental health issues and that Collangelo’s burner accounts were pushing conspiracy theories to cover for the fact Fultz just sucks.

Deal?

(Great start for him. Looks a lot more confident, though it will be important to see how he faces adversity.)
 

Nick Kaufman

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There's a line where you need to stop being a fan and remember you are a human being who feels compassion and empathy for the plight of others. I root for the kid, because I know all too well how it is to waste your potential because of an irrational mental block.
 

snowmanny

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Can we all just agree we are rooting for him to go between eight and fifteen in the 2017 NBA re-draft five years from now?
 

terrynever

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Fultz hit a three from the left corner in first quarter tonight against Orlando. Missed one, too. Began game at shooting guard, now running point with Simmons sitting. Drive and dish. Still pretty careless with the ball.
 

lovegtm

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You know this, man!

I am rooting for him too but NBA defenders are going to close out on him much faster than this. Lets hope he can replicate this performance against that level of competition.
Probably still too slow, but it's something he can build on. He looked godawful even in static situations last year, so this is pretty encouraging for the kid.

Drew Hanlen is going to be making it rain at the stripclubs tonight.
 

benhogan

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There's a line where you need to stop being a fan and remember you are a human being who feels compassion and empathy for the plight of others. I root for the kid, because I know all too well how it is to waste your potential because of an irrational mental block.
I have plenty of empathy and compassion for others.

Rooting against Fultz hitting jump shots doesn't mean any kind of line has been crossed. That's beyond silly.
 
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lovegtm

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I have plenty of empathy and compassion for others.

Rooting against Fultz hitting jump shots doesn't mean any kind of line has been crossed. That's beyond silly.
Yeah, I'm rooting for Fultz to pull it together, but the dude is a multi-millionaire 20 year-old who had a rough stretch mentally playing a game. Hating on him is fine.
 

BigMike

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Watching his shot, the form isn't bad, but it really feels like he is releasing most of them on the way down, rather than on the way up or top of the jump.

I still believe he's gonna be a pretty good player
 

Tony C

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also a very deliberate, slow release -- really rooting for him, but....still much to prove.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is a funny place. For years, DeRozan has been crucified for having a mid-range game, and a very good one, yet Fultz is lauded for making these same shots in exhibition games.
 

Jimbodandy

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This is a funny place. For years, DeRozan has been crucified for having a mid-range game, and a very good one, yet Fultz is lauded for making these same shots in exhibition games.
Guy couldn't make any shots at all last year. This is progress. Should be obvious why it's a big deal.

Strange criticism on your part imo.
 

slamminsammya

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This is a funny place. For years, DeRozan has been crucified for having a mid-range game, and a very good one, yet Fultz is lauded for making these same shots in exhibition games.
I can't tell if you are serious or not! His release is slow but even if its gotta be respected its a huge step up for his game.
 

the moops

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This is a funny place. For years, DeRozan has been crucified for having a mid-range game, and a very good one, yet Fultz is lauded for making these same shots in exhibition games.
Yea, weird criticism indeed. If this was last year, and Fultz didn't have his injury/mental issues, then yea, him making these midrange shots would hardly be a point of praise. However, the dude couldn't even make a free throw last year without looking like it was the 10th time he had ever picked up a basketball. Him not hesitating and making midrangers is a huge step forward
 

lovegtm

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This is a funny place. For years, DeRozan has been crucified for having a mid-range game, and a very good one, yet Fultz is lauded for making these same shots in exhibition games.
It's almost like people can take context into account and differentiate situations. Wacky!
 

Gash Prex

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I don’t think it’s a crazy comment at all - basically the expectations of the former #1 pick from a year ago are now so low that hitting a couple of midrange jumpers(with a form that I don’t think looks great) is cause for celebration and excitement for philly. Keeping in mind that mid range jumpers are no longer valued much in the game it gives serious pause to Fultzs “upside”
 

Cesar Crespo

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Do fans still have expectations of him performing like a #1 pick or did they readjust their expectations to something like 20 minute role player?
 

benhogan

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Do fans still have expectations of him performing like a #1 pick or did they readjust their expectations to something like 20 minute role player?
There is talk of Markelle starting over JJ to start the year. The Sixers brass and BB must still see him as having top end talent, not a 20 minute role player

Not many first-year players start in their first healthy season for a playoff contender. Last season: Simmons, Tatum, Mitchell
 

lovegtm

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There is talk of Markelle starting over JJ to start the year. The Sixers brass and BB must still see him as having top end talent, not a 20 minute role player

Not many first-year players start in their first healthy season for a playoff contender. Last season: Simmons, Tatum, Mitchell
To be fair, most top-5 picks aren't on playoff contenders as rookies, and the guys below that tend to take longer to develop into starters. If Fultz had had his jumper, he likely would have been starting some last year.
 

cheech13

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Do fans still have expectations of him performing like a #1 pick or did they readjust their expectations to something like 20 minute role player?
The Sixers refused to include Fultz in trade talks for Kawhi Leonard this summer. It's clear that the team still values him as a potential centerpiece and not as a role player; why should fans be any different?
 

leetinsley38

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The Sixers refused to include Fultz in trade talks for Kawhi Leonard this summer. It's clear that the team still values him as a potential centerpiece and not as a role player; why should fans be any different?
Actually it was the other way around. The Spurs had zero interest in Fultz - Zach Lowe reported this.

https://247sports.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/Article/San-Antonio-Spurs-had-no-interest-in-Kawhi-Leonard-for-Markelle-Fultz-trade-121854940/

There is no evidence that the Spurs wanted Fultz.
I’ve been told the Spurs never asked for Fultz and actively didn’t want Fultz and in fact wanted one of the two big guys.
 

TripleOT

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Fultz missed more than half his layup attempts last season. He's got a lot of holes in his game besides jump shooting.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Fultz missed more than half his layup attempts last season. He's got a lot of holes in his game besides jump shooting.
But most of his flaws involve putting the ball in the basket. Of course his biggest strength is diminished playing with Ben Simmons.
 

cheech13

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Actually it was the other way around. The Spurs had zero interest in Fultz - Zach Lowe reported this.

https://247sports.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/Article/San-Antonio-Spurs-had-no-interest-in-Kawhi-Leonard-for-Markelle-Fultz-trade-121854940/
I don't know what 247sports.com is, but neither of those quotes are consistent with what Zach Lowe has said in the past on espn.com and other outlets. Here is what he said the day after the trade:

Philadelphia's potential package of Robert Covington, Dario Saric, and the Heat's unprotected 2021 pick didn't move the needle. It's unclear if the Spurs had interest in Markelle Fultz; the two sides never discussed him seriously, and the Sixers would not have parted with him, sources say.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24128608/zach-lowe-kawhi-leonard-trade-spurs-raptors-nba
 

benhogan

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But most of his flaws involve putting the ball in the basket. Of course his biggest strength is diminished playing with Ben Simmons.
Meh, Markelle's ball handling is pedestrian at best. I'd be surprised if he is an average PG in Assist/TO ratio this season. He was 1.8 to 1 at UW. Needless to say, NBA PG defense is much more potent than Pac-12
All the hype surrounding Markelle coming into the league was as a scoring/shooting PG.
 

amarshal2

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Meh, Markelle's ball handling is pedestrian at best. I'd be surprised if he is an average PG in Assist/TO ratio this season. He was 1.8 to 1 at UW. Needless to say, NBA PG defense is much more potent than Pac-12
All the hype surrounding Markelle coming into the league was as a scoring/shooting PG.
There was a ton of hype about his ball handling which was described as plus-plus.