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McPhee and Loathing in Las Vegas: The Expansion Draft

Discussion in 'Rick Middleton's Pron 'Stache: Bruins Forum' started by AMcGhie, Jun 15, 2017.

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Who should the Bruins protect with their 3rd Defenseman slot?

Poll closed Tuesday at 10:38 AM.
  1. Colin Miller (1M/year, RFA after next season)

    59 vote(s)
    85.5%
  2. Kevan Miller (2.5M/year, 3 seasons left, then UFA)

    10 vote(s)
    14.5%
  3. Adam McQuaid (2.75M/year, 2 seasons left, then UFA)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. burstnbloom

    burstnbloom Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,564
    We're arguing in circles but I don't believe Spooned has less value than Kevan Miller, though I think both have virtually no trade value. Given that, I see no reason not to protect spooner because the alternatives on the forward core have markedly less value. If you think Spooner is a lock to get picked, then clearly he holds more value than the Miller's and you're better off keeping him than exposing him. Either way, though, we are talking about middling, replaceable assets so I think we've spent about as much energy as we need on this.
     
  2. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,770
    No if Spooner is picked it merely means LAS views him as a better alternative amongst all players available to them than which ever Miller is left unprotected.

    The expansion draft is going to be D heavy by virtue of the 7-3-1 format. Most teams have a decent top 4 D, very few have more than 5 decent forwards B's included. That leads to a likely imbalance of players available.

    Personally I think C Miller has a lot more value than Spooner, and Kevan Miller on a good contract has a lot more value to the Bruins than Spooner given the FWs in the AHL pipeline.

    Spooner could be one of the better FW's made available by virtue of the protection rules.
     
  3. TheShynessClinic

    TheShynessClinic SoSH's Doug Neidermeyer SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,254
    According to Lavoie:

    The @NHLBruins didn't protect Beleskey, Hayes, Mcquaid, Miller, Khudobin.

    Awesome. Just fucking great. Nice knowing you Colin. Enjoy Las Vegas.
     
  4. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    27,197
  5. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,770
    Sadly not protecting C Miller was entirely predictable.
    MN ends up protecting Brodin instead of Dumba or Scandella.

    LAS could own 1/4 of the first round if they really wanted to.
     
  6. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,770
    NYI protect 5 D but not De Haan though they may have a deal in place with LAS to protect him and Strome.
     
  7. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    Really not a fan of Kevan over Colin. Kevan is fine, but Colin is younger, cheaper and has a higher upside.
     
  8. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

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    12,663
    I did a complete 180 on Kevan this season. I thought he improved drastically in almost every part of his game, so I am, strangely, okay with this.

    I still reserve the right to complain about how stupid Sweeney is if Kevan turns back into a pumpkin this season, though.
     
  9. burstnbloom

    burstnbloom Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,564
    I'm in the same boat as cshea. I came around on Kevan a lot this year but he is still a bottom of the roster player and when choosing between bottom of the roster players, always choose the younger, cheaper one who would be harder to replace.

    I see this as a likely case of Sweeney costing the Bruins $1.5 mil in cap space. If I'm Vegas, I'm 100% taking a guy like Miller with a lower salary and more upside as they are building. That means McQuaid likely stays and if they can't move one or the other, we're stuck with one of them playing out of position or on the 9th floor. It's not the end of the world but it strikes me as a dumb move.
     
  10. burstnbloom

    burstnbloom Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,564
    The CapFriendly tool is loaded and you can play around with it. Vegas could actually make a pretty decent team. I just drafted:

    James Neal- Plekanec - Boedker
    Cammalleri-Marchessault-Stempniak
    Nelson-Eakin-Josh Anderson
    Paquette - Kruger- Grabner
    Lehtera, Colborne, Rychel, Gaunce, Pulkinen

    Vatanen-Dumba
    Bogosion-Mcnabb
    Fayne - Colin Miller
    Claesson, Oullet, Chairot

    MAF
    Neuvirth
    Grubaer

    I didn't take into account roster construction all that much but there is enough there to make an OK team with lots of opportunity to move people for picks/prospects at the deadline. The haul for Neal alone could be a 1st and a prospect.
     
  11. Maximus

    Maximus Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,911
    I never thought I'd feel this way and thought Kevan was terrible 2 seasons ago but he did do a complete 180 last year and I am glad they protected him and have him as part of the D corps with Chara, McAvoy, Krug and Carlo. Colin Miller showed great potential but he was a Jekyll and Hyde type player. With that said, Vegas will definitely take him in the draft. Sweeney needs to find a taker for McQuaid since he is the same type of player as K. Miller.
     
  12. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,380
    I expected the Bruins to do what they did (protect Kevan over Colin) and I think it is defensible. Difficult decision because Colin likely has more upside but less value to the current team, which looks poised to contend.
     
  13. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    McPhee is The Godfather for 3 days. Good spot to be in. May not have a good team right out of the schute, but should have plenty of assets to work with.

     
  14. TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

    TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle Member SoSH Member

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    6,975
    Schute? What is that, Dutch for poophole?
     
  15. TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

    TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle Member SoSH Member

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    6,975
    He sounds like a don in that quote. "Nice roster you have. Would be terrible if something happened to it..."
     
  16. GammonsSpecialPerson

    GammonsSpecialPerson Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    136
    Yep. This is the kind of decision that can undo a lot of good decisions and goodwill. If Colin Miller blossoms on another team and Kevan Miller is just Kevan Miller, this is going to look horrible in three years. Whereas if Colin Miller never gets any better while Kevan Miller is his dependable self, the team needs to progress or this will look horrible. Lose-lose, with virtually no upside.

    Keeping Colin and letting Kevan go would have been the safer move. There's almost no way that ends up being more than a "eh, what could you do?" situation. By taking the riskier path, the Bruins are betting big on their young D and on Kevan being serviceable (IOW, what he was in 16-17) for two years while those kids develop.
     
  17. wnyghost

    wnyghost lurker

    Messages:
    38
    We're the Bruins hoping Colin would blossom?

    I learned something about advance stats but if Colin Miller is in the same stat conversation as an elite defenseman like Burns... I question the stat.
     
  18. wnyghost

    wnyghost lurker

    Messages:
    38
    And wouldn't Miller have great trade value under his current contract if people were sold on the metrics?
     
  19. twothousandone

    twothousandone Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,972
    And it is essentially a cool stove dream come true -- what's fair value, or slightly over fair value, to not mess with whatever plan is in place.

    "Take Brossoit and Rust, and Hayes, send the first two to Boston, and we'll give you our first round pick." McPhee has to respond "I can get a similar first for Brossoit and Rust from Chicago -- eight picks later, but I don't have to take on salary. Make a better offer, or I take Miller." Damn, what a great position to be in, and I'm not exactly sure he can "overplay" his hand. Someone decent is available across the board.

    Great thread title, IMO.
     
  20. TheRealness

    TheRealness Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,785
    I would have preferred Colin to Kevan, especially with McQuaid on the roster, but I don't feel this is a major issue. I think Colin is a good young talent, but I am not convinced he's going to be the type of player his speed and shot would suggest.

    I suspect this has more to do with team building than asset management, and they must feel Kevan fits better with the overall roster. Add in that McAvoy and Carlo are our top two RD, and the unpredictability of Colin's next contract and I think you find the FO's motivation here.

    I am assuming Colin will be drafted, so while their top 4 is very good assuming McAvoy continues his strong play from the playoffs, their projected bottom two of Kevan and McQuaid is a potential disaster. They really need to find a way to move McQuaid. He just doesn't have a place in the new, faster NHL.
     
  21. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,306
    I would trade them this year's first for them to take McQuaid. Only slight hyperbole.
     
  22. AMcGhie

    AMcGhie The Robinson Canoe of RMPS SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    If you're giving away a pick, make them take Hayes. At least McQuaid is replacement-level.
     
  23. AMcGhie

    AMcGhie The Robinson Canoe of RMPS SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    More Mock Drafts
    ESPN: 3 drafts, B's lose Subban, Subban, Hayes(what is Andrew Knoll smoking?)
    NHL.com: B's lose Subban
     
  24. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    I tried to draft a Vegas team. It's basically impossible to do so without knowing the side deals, but screw it. I followed the information that we currently have about some picks and deals. I picked Fleury, layed off Anaheim's D,
    NYI's forwards, CBJ's Anderson and Johnson, and took Kruger from Chicago.

    Neal - Shipachyov - Marchessault
    Pouliot - Lehtera - Stempniak
    Hudon - Stajan - Raffl
    Kruger - Calvert - Dano
    Logan Shaw, Brendan Gaunce

    Methot - Dumba
    De Haan - C. Miller
    Schmidt - Schlemko
    Koekkoek, Oleksiak, McNabb

    Fleury
    Mrazek
    Ullmark
    Pickard
    Raanta

    That comes in at $54.6 million.

    I ended up taking 5 goalies, and would have to trade 2 of them. Tried to take a mix of vets on cheap, short term contracts that can be flipped at the deadline (Stempniak, Balls, Neal), and some fliers on young guys that haven't really broken through yet in the NHL (Hudon, Leipsic, Dano).

    Vancouver, LA, Colorado and Arizona's unprotected lists are truly useless. I also found it amusing getting to STL and seeing Ryan Reaves protected.
     
  25. The Napkin

    The Napkin wise ass al kaprielian Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,955
    Haggs was on T&R and said he's hearing they're going to take McQuaid. Which is ... interesting.
     
  26. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    993
    Hayes is up after this season. I'd rather them eat his cash than give up a pick. Beleskey is on the books for THREE MORE SEASONS. Ugh.
     
  27. veritas

    veritas Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,356
    The odds of hack having any sources in the LV org is basically zero, but if he's heard this from Bruins people that suggests there could be a deal in place. He's just as likely full of shit though
     
  28. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    Haggs thought they should've protected Beleskey...
     
  29. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,570
    It continues to amaze me that he has a platform for his opinions.
     
  30. MiracleOfO2704

    MiracleOfO2704 not AWOL SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,676
    I saw Rosen's mock on NHL.com, and yeah, the logic he used behind the goalie picks for VGK (he has McPhee taking Fleury, Neuvirth, and Grubauer) is that Fleury and Neuvirth buys them a couple years for Grubauer and Subban to develop. And if it is Subban gone, I think you thank your lucky stars.
     
  31. The Napkin

    The Napkin wise ass al kaprielian Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,955
    He mumbled something about PEI connections with McQuaid and the Vegas group. And that if they wanted the better player they'd take Miller but the leadership and toughness that McQuaid might bring on top of the PEI thing...
    I'm pretty sure I zoned out out of self preservation then.
     
  32. TheRealness

    TheRealness Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,785
    I laughed at that. I don't see any way that happens.

    Accurate. He's click baiting, IMO.

    Once again, his idiocy is proven out.

    Who else is there in Boston? I know he's terrible, and lazy and all of those things, but it's a barren landscape out there for Boston beat writers.
     
  33. PedroSpecialK

    PedroSpecialK Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    20,543
    Either McQuaid or Subban would be such a massive let-off for this franchise. Not counting on it though, especially given the sorts of players McPhee valued as GM in DC

    I'd be more interested in hearing from that guy off exit 18 who waves cars through the River St. intersection, for starters.
     
  34. TheRealness

    TheRealness Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,785
    I think the appropriate answer is pretty much any regular in this forum, but the Boston media is going to media with dude guys like Haggs.
     
  35. TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

    TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,975
    I think this pretty much nails the thinking here. The Bs FO probably feels they have a bunch of players on the roster and coming up that will provide C. Miller's value without his future contract.

    I thought @BoSoxFink WAS that guy.
     
  36. BoSoxFink

    BoSoxFink Stripes SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,798
    that's a dream job right there
     
  37. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    Some more side deals filtering out. Vegas says they have half a dozen done and are still talking to a few teams. Known ones so far are:

    - CBJ's 1 and prospect to lay off Jack Johnson and John Anderson apparently. Clarkson's contract could be involved as well.

    - Anaheim has some sort of deal that keeps Manson and Vatanen protected. Anaheim doesn't have a pick this year. Probably a prospect haul going to Vegas here, but none of the pieces have leaked out.

    - Isles are sending at least a first round pick to Vegas to keep de Haan, Bailey, Strome, Nelson. Supposedly Grabovski's contract is the pick, maybe Kulemin too.

    - Tampa rumored to be sending a first to the Knights with bad contract, Jay Garrison or Ryan Callahan may be the bad contracts headed to Vegas.

    2 or 3 more out there.

    Edit: McPhee says he is taking a lot of defenseman, and will have to trade a few. So long, Colin. Could be an opportunity for the B's to use Vegas as the middle man to get their desired LHD
     
  38. TheRealness

    TheRealness Don't make him go all Lucic on your ash SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,785
    Yeah, it sure sounds like Colin is the type of player they want. With the value of PMDs in this league, especially with Nashville's recent run led by a deep group of them, I definitely see him headed to Vegas.

    I also think the Bruins will kick the tires on a LHD or potential top 6 winger, but I don't see the path to either happening. I expect them to make the pick at 18 and what we see now is what we get in October, absent maybe a depth center or defenseman in FA.
     
  39. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    There's some chatter north of the border that Colin could be flipped by Vegas to the Leafs. The Leafs are in the market for a RHD. Miller's loved by analytics; Leafs are one of the more analytical leaning front offices with Kyle Dubas on the analytics side being an AGM. Dubas was the GM of Colin Miller's junior team, the Soo Greyhounds. So there's some smoke there. That would kind of suck. Anyways, draft is tonight so we'll find out soon enough.

    For those interested in the Vegas team, check out McKenzie's timeline. He has a string of 15ish tweets about what's going on tonight and some of the trades done or heavily rumored to be happening.
     
  40. veritas

    veritas Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,356
    nvm was in your last post
     
    #90 veritas, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:54 AM
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 11:16 AM
  41. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,770
    Talk of "the Pledge" with McPhee is interesting.
    Sounds like he told the teams that if they wanted to make any deals with VGK around unprotected players that they couldn't trade players pre-roster freeze that VGK might be interested in. Might explain why there was so few moves leading up the to freeze.
     
  42. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    Before even getting into 3rd party deals Vegas has lined up, it seems the Knights are getting Shea Theodore, Alex Tuch, Eric Haula and a bevy of draft picks. LeBrun says they've got at least 10 total picks spread over 3 years in their pocket. Not a bad way to start building a team.
     
  43. TFP

    TFP Dope Dope

    Messages:
    14,749
    It sounds like McPhee played this remarkably. He had some of these teams over the barrel and used it wisely. One of McKenzie's tweets was how the GMs were simultaneous in awe and annoyed with how much he was able to extract from everyone. It's a fascinating exercise.
     
  44. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    10,520
  45. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    7,062
    I must say this thing of trading picks so you don't draft my guys is entertaining. Kind of wish we had more expansion drafts, to see this more often,
     
  46. Catcher Block

    Catcher Block Member SoSH Member

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    2,011
    With Mrazek on his radar, McPhee had even more leverage against PIT. I'm enjoying how necessarily ruthless he's being here.
     
  47. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,547
    The FLA move with Vegas possibly getting both Marchessault and Reilly Smith is a head scratcher. I can't figure out the Panthers end game there.
     
  48. twothousandone

    twothousandone Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,972
    There's word the deal with Pitt was in place a while ago. The supposed Chicago deal also seemed in place shortly after they were out. I wonder if non-Vegas teams will find out that moving early was a benefit -- especially if that "Pledge" talk is true. Pitt & Chi had clear objectives -- it's possible they moved quickly to get deals in place, then focus elsewhere. It seems like Florida and maybe Montreal were scrambling, and they might have been caught off-guard if McPhee, in essence, asked for more than he was rumored to get from Pitt/Chi.

    I assume he's either known as a man of his word, wants to be known as a man of his word, or the deals were submitted to the league, and he wasn't/isn't permitted to back out. Because seeing Mrazek at $4 million had to make him wonder, at least a bit, about MAF at $5.7 million
     
  49. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,520
    He could also just select both players and trade one, or both. The Red Wings list is pretty damn awful. An old Kronwall, Mrazek and that's about it.
     
  50. Catcher Block

    Catcher Block Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,011
    Sportsnet reporting that Vegas has already agreed to a 2-year deal with Wild RFA Erik Haula, whom they will select in the expansion draft. It also confirms they're getting a conditional draft pick and prospect (Alex Tuch) for staying away from Dumba.
     

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