Mookie Betts appreciation thread

Bergs

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I know this was posted somewhere after it happened, but this clip is hilarious. I love me some Mookie.

 

nvalvo

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If Dombrowski asked me, I'd tell him to offer Betts a 12-year, $300m deal at the end of this season. That would sign him from his age 26 through the end of his age 37 season at a $25m AAV.

I get that he loses some of his defensive WAR if he were at 2B, but isnt there something to be said about having a top 5 offensive player at a position like 2B, where traditionally weaker offensive players reside?
2B, especially small 2B, have trouble staying on the field. The new rules help with that somewhat, but you have likely noticed that Dustin Pedroia is on the DL...
 

Pitt the Elder

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BUT, Mookie did barrel up a ball that he hit at 101.9 mph that had a hit percentage of 83%. It was just caught. So, you know, he's still doing his thang.
 

DanoooME

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I think he is the purest 5 tool guy in their history. Obviously they have had guys with better individual tools in their history, but he has to be the most well rounded.

As a position player he is as much fun for me to watch since Nomar's hall of fame stretch.
Tris Speaker was both a batting and home run league champion (166 OPS+ with Boston, 40+ points above Mookie), never stole less than 25 bases in a full season with Boston (and had 3 40+ years, including a 52 SB year), and holds the all-time record for assists and DPs by an outfielder to go along with a stellar reputation as a defender both range- and arm-wise; his glove was famously nicknamed the place “where triples go to die”.

His power numbers look paltry, but you have to contextualize them into the dead-ball era.
Reggie Smith says hi too. His results may not have been as good as Speaker or Betts, but he could do it all.
 

grimshaw

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Tris Speaker was both a batting and home run league champion (166 OPS+ with Boston, 40+ points above Mookie), never stole less than 25 bases in a full season with Boston (and had 3 40+ years, including a 52 SB year), and holds the all-time record for assists and DPs by an outfielder to go along with a stellar reputation as a defender both range- and arm-wise; his glove was famously nicknamed the place “where triples go to die”.

His power numbers look paltry, but you have to contextualize them into the dead-ball era.
Obviously offensively and overall , Speaker was the far better player, though by defensive sabremetrics and baserunning value, Speaker wasn't in Betts' ballpark. Though when you're going 100+ years back it's kind of hard to trust those.

I think Reggie Smith as was suggested above is a better comp.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Reggie Smith says hi too. His results may not have been as good as Speaker or Betts, but he could do it all.
Wasn't Smith kind of a JBJ type in that he didn't have great speed, but had tremendous defensive skills/alertness and a great arm? He certainly never stole a lot of bases -- he only got to double figures a half-dozen times in 16 seasons, over 20 once, and his SB percentages weren't good. FG has him at negative baserunning value for most of his career.

Not knocking him as an overall player, just questioning whether the five-tool label really fits here.
 

Al Zarilla

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Obviously offensively and overall , Speaker was the far better player, though by defensive sabremetrics and baserunning value, Speaker wasn't in Betts' ballpark. Though when you're going 100+ years back it's kind of hard to trust those.

I think Reggie Smith as was suggested above is a better comp.
Old, old ballplayers vs today were a completely different class of athletes. Even taking 1946, I saw some footage (maybe half an hour to an hour) of the 1946 season somewhere, including the World Series, and Teddy Ballgame looked like a fast runner out of the box and on the bases compared with most! Even Enos Slaughter with his mad dash/Pesky held the ball didn’t look that fast. Maybe the heavy, baggy flannel uniforms just make them look slow, but I don’t think so. I think they were. Maybe Jackie Robinson, Sam Jethroe, Willie Mays et al steered the game toward the modern era of faster running players.

I have no idea how much emphasis there was on speed in Speaker’s era, nor how fast they were, but I suspect pretty slow. Very hard to compare players then to now.
 

ledsox

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J.D. Martinez loves Mookie Betts:
[H]e's so hungry for information. He's always in my ear. "Why did I miss that ball? What do you think about of this? What do you think about that? How should I try and hit that? Have you seen my BP?" Always asking me stuff. Always trying to learn. ... I love it because he gets caught up in the process instead of the results. ... Obviously you want hits, but the process is something you can control. ... We talk hitting and I get his perspective on it. It's cool. I kind of like the way he thinks about some stuff sometimes. It's different. I like different because it kind of opens your mind. ... I like information, so bouncing ideas off of him has been good.
Thanks for posting that. Really cool to read that kind of thing.
 

grimshaw

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Old, old ballplayers vs today were a completely different class of athletes. Even taking 1946, I saw some footage (maybe half an hour to an hour) of the 1946 season somewhere, including the World Series, and Teddy Ballgame looked like a fast runner out of the box and on the bases compared with most! Even Enos Slaughter with his mad dash/Pesky held the ball didn’t look that fast. Maybe the heavy, baggy flannel uniforms just make them look slow, but I don’t think so. I think they were. Maybe Jackie Robinson, Sam Jethroe, Willie Mays et al steered the game toward the modern era of faster running players.

I have no idea how much emphasis there was on speed in Speaker’s era, nor how fast they were, but I suspect pretty slow. Very hard to compare players then to now.
I'm not just talking about speed and stolen bases, I'm talking about baserunning value. Here are the individual seasons of BsR during Speaker's era. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=1928&month=0&season1=1907&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=19,d&page=1_50

Speaker's best BsR was ranked 125th. Compared to his peers and in a much smaller league he was pretty ordinary, at least according to that particular stat. Yes he stole a lot of bases. When he stole his Red Sox high of 52 bases in 1912, he was 5th. Stealing was obviously much more prevalent back then because when Mookie stole 26 last year, he was 6th.

And here is Betts in his 3 full seasons.
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2017&month=0&season1=2015&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=19,d
 
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Reverend

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What I'm getting out of this discussion is just how rare a player Mookie is--to have the tools and to have them all be a part of his very, very complete game.

And now he knows he can hit it to the opposite field...
 

Spelunker

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What I'm getting out of this discussion is just how rare a player Mookie is--to have the tools and to have them all be a part of his very, very complete game.

And now he knows he can hit it to the opposite field...
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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For those of you clamoring to drop Betts in the order, Cora confirmed in the post-game press conference that Mookie will bat leadoff for the 'rest of the season.'
 

Harry Hooper

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IIRC, Joe Carter was the only MLB player with a pair of 3-homer games in Fenway, so Mookie is the first Red Sox player to do it?
 

pantsparty

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He saw a total of 12 pitches today and swung at 6 of them. The results were 1 swinging stike, 1 foul ball, a single, and 3 home runs.
 

edoug

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IIRC, Joe Carter was the only MLB player with a pair of 3-homer games in Fenway, so Mookie is the first Red Sox player to do it?
Nomar did it twice. His birthday game and against Seattle. Mo Vaughn as well.
 

Reverend

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If I'm not mistaken, McGuire at least had a four home run game at Fenway.

The crowd also gave him a standing-oh and our catcher, when Mark asked what to do, said, possibly apocryphally, "Tip your hat, stupid."

Here's to Mookie displacing this anecdote to some degree. ;)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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If I'm not mistaken, McGuire at least had a four home run game at Fenway.

The crowd also gave him a standing-oh and our catcher, when Mark asked what to do, said, possibly apocryphally, "Tip your hat, stupid."

Here's to Mookie displacing this anecdote to some degree. ;)
I don't believe McGwire ever had a 4-HR game. He did have a 3-HR game at Fenway in 1995. (Globe article about the game)
 

edoug

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If I'm not mistaken, McGuire at least had a four home run game at Fenway.

The crowd also gave him a standing-oh and our catcher, when Mark asked what to do, said, possibly apocryphally, "Tip your hat, stupid."

Here's to Mookie displacing this anecdote to some degree. ;)
I don't believe McGwire ever had a 4-HR game. He did have a 3-HR game at Fenway in 1995. (Globe article about the game)
One of those homers circumnavigated the planet. So it looks like there were 4.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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As much as I'd love to see him locked up long term, an extension has to be a mutual thing. From what I understand, Mookie hasn't been all that interested in signing an extension when the overtures have been made. He appears to be on the Papelbon track (without the jackassery) rather than the Pedroia one...he'll ride it out year to year and hit free agency unless the Sox really knock his socks off with an offer (so no discount in exchange for security).
 

LesterFan

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232 wRC+, next closest is Machado at 202.
.458 ISO, next closest is Gregorius at .402

More impressively his 11.5 K% is the 10th lowest in baseball, with the guys ahead of him hitting nowhere near this level of power. Just don't see guys hit for this much power without striking out. Mookie is unreal.
 

drbretto

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As much as I'd love to see him locked up long term, an extension has to be a mutual thing. From what I understand, Mookie hasn't been all that interested in signing an extension when the overtures have been made. He appears to be on the Papelbon track (without the jackassery) rather than the Pedroia one...he'll ride it out year to year and hit free agency unless the Sox really knock his socks off with an offer (so no discount in exchange for security).

Yeah, I don't think it's an option. He's going to free agency, and he's going to get paid. Plan on that and you can just enjoy him while he's here.

I'm not saying he's going to leave. But I don't think the Sox are getting any bargains, either. He's got every right to his payday if he keeps doing what he's doing, and it's the no brainier move to wait for free agency and collect.
 

drbretto

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I don't want to take away from Mookie because he's definitely playing on Trout's level right now, but if you haven't looked recently, now's a good time to refresh yourself on Trout's career real quick and keep in mind he's only 26. That's just not a fair comparison. Trout is not human.
 

Reverend

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I don't want to take away from Mookie because he's definitely playing on Trout's level right now, but if you haven't looked recently, now's a good time to refresh yourself on Trout's career real quick and keep in mind he's only 26. That's just not a fair comparison. Trout is not human.
How fast can he solve a Rubick's Cube?
 

DanoooME

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There have been 29 3-HR games at Fenway ever:

Mookie
Hanley
Teixeira (MFY)
Adam Lind (TOR)
Millar
Nomah x 2
Vaughn x 2
Frank Thomas (CHW)
McGwire (OAK)
John Valentin
TIm Raines Sr (CHW)
Jack Clark
Brunansky
Joe Carter x 2 (CLE)
Patek (KC)
Rice
Freehan (DET)
Boog Powell (BAL)
Killebrew (MIN)
Norm Zauchin (WHO???)
Clyde Vollmer
Bobby Avila (CLE)
Doerr
Teddy Ballgame
Ken Keltner (CLE)
And some guy named Gehrig was the first to do it.
 

MakeMineMoxie

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Yeah, I don't think it's an option. He's going to free agency, and he's going to get paid. Plan on that and you can just enjoy him while he's here.

I'm not saying he's going to leave. But I don't think the Sox are getting any bargains, either. He's got every right to his payday if he keeps doing what he's doing, and it's the no brainier move to wait for free agency and collect.
Assuming he keeps performing at this level, he deserves to get paid his worth and I hope the Sox are willing to step up. They will lose a lot of credibility with me if they don't.
 

uncannymanny

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He’s made no indication (that I have heard) that he in any way prefers to hit free agency rather than stay in Boston. There didn’t seem to be any love lost over the arb proceeding this year. He said in ST that he won’t talk about it during the season, which is common and completely understandable.

He has, and is, betting on himself (and he’s up big). Did people really expect him to sign an extension after a season which was, by many, considered underwhelming? With an off-season expected to set records coming up?

He’s young, exciting, does everything, and will age well. He’s a franchise player. Holy shit guys, Dave Dombrowski is the GM, not Ben Cherington. If I were a betting man I’d say it gets done eventually, but probably after Mookie has pushed the price close to market.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Look who's trying to be like Mookie in Houston tonight. :D
You’re going to piss a lot of people off with this post, myself included.

Back to Mookie Appreciation: I enjoy the fact that he’s better than anyone currently on the Yankees.

(I’m also pretty sure he’s the most talented Red Sox position player of my lifetime.)

I hope he’s here forever.
 

shaggydog2000

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Looks like I talked myself into the fourth home run while rooting for Mookie to tie something so heroic it didn't happen.

That sounds highly plausible, now that I think about it. Thanks for the correction.
Someday Mookie stories will be told in hushed tones and children and the uninitiated will find them so outlandish that they will think he is nothing but a myth. A moderately tall tale. A 5'9" Paul Bunyan with a bowling ball in one hand and a rubik's cube in the other.

One night late, in a bar that is both somewhere and somehow nowhere at all, some bent aged old timer sitting in a dark corner nursing a drink will overhear Mookie's feats being dismissed as a legend, not real fact, a story for children, an exaggeration at best. "There never was a Mookie Betts" the young buck at the bar will say. The old timer will pipe up "Oh he was real, I saw him with my own two eyes. Ran like a gazelle. Glove that held onto anything it got close to. Hit dingers almost at will. Seemed like whatever he did he excelled at. Like it just wasn't in him to fail at anything. I saw him play in person at Fenway, back when I was barely tall enough to see over the people sitting in front of me. Yeah, Original Fenway, back before Boston sank under the ocean and they had to build New Fenway out by Worcester. He was real as I am sitting here right now." The old timer will finish his drink with a dramatic gulp, rise, and leave them all behind, in awe of his connection to the most celebrated member of the Pantheon of the basepaths. Once the door quietly closes behind him, the young buck will turn to the bartender and ask who that man was. The bartender will reply "All I know is, his tab is under SOSH, and I have no idea how we're supposed to pronounce that."