No more homefield advantage decided by the ASG?

Ale Xander

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Play it in Williamsport and Cooperstown in alternating years .
Move to a 1-2-2-1 format with a possible game 7 at the winner of the CCL champion so it would be within driving distance of many SOSHers
Donate all ticket proceeds to charity should game 7 occur.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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How about it just goes to the team with the best home record? If there's a tie, it goes to the Division winner with the best home record, then to best interleague home record, then best interleague record, then best division record, then overall record.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Didn't we hear for years about how they needed to have more certainty to be able to plan in advance for the World Series games? What changed that's made HFA for team with a better record now possible?
 

lexrageorge

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Didn't we hear for years about how they needed to have more certainty to be able to plan in advance for the World Series games? What changed that's made HFA for team with a better record now possible?
I think that was true back in the day of a single division for each league, and then in the 1970's when a number of stadiums were multiuse for football and baseball.

There is probably some benefit in today's setup in that when the playoffs start, the operators of the 10 ball parks know the potential 3 or 4 World Series dates for their respective parks. But given that rainouts can perturb the best laid plans regardless, I have to believe the planning issue could be worked around with relative ease.
 

Remagellan

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I am fine with the current method of deciding HFA, and I'd be fine with going back to alternating between leagues. The only solution that would piss me off if adopted is the one most people here seem to be advocating--going by best record--because of the the unbalanced schedules. A team that was lucky enough to play in a shitty division shouldn't be further rewarded for beating up on its inferior opponents.

The Sox played in a division in which four out of the five teams finished over .500. The Cubs played in one in which only one other team, the Cards did. The Cubs were 31-25 against teams that went .500 or better, the Sox were 55-48 in such games, and the Rangers were 60-31! The Cubs built their record on demolishing bad teams, going 72-33 against teams under .500.

Think about that--the Cubs played over 100 games against teams that finished under .500. How many under .500 teams is a team going to encounter in the playoffs?

This was due to a large degree to the fact that only 6 teams in the NL posted records of .500 or better (Cubs, Nats, Dodgers, Mets, Giants, and Cardinals). In the AL, 10 teams went .500 or better (Rangers, Indians, Sox, Jays, Orioles, Tigers, Mariners, Astros, MFYs, and Royals.)

As long as there are going to be those sort of disparities between the quality of opponents teams face, it's not fair to award HFA on the basis of record. I'd much rather it be something random like the ASG or going back to alternating years, than going to a system that seems fair but actually only rewards people who were lucky enough to live in the right neighborhood, because we have enough of that bullshit in the real world.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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But isn't 'living in the right neighborhood' pretty much the same as 'being in the league that won an exhibition'? If you want to eliminate voting for All Star teams, abolish one per team minimum and allow the manager the right to choose who he goes to war with - and then play the game as such - sure. I'd be all for that. It would be pretty cool to watch. But complaining about divisional strength seems foolish to me. It fluctuates yearly. The Cubs had a soft division this year. A year or two ago the NL Central was the best in baseball.

That happens in every sport. Every year. If you catch the short end of that stick, it no different than a bad break anywhere else in sports.

Edit: I'll add to reiterate that every major sport has an unbalanced schedule. The Pats have been in a pretty shitty division the last fifteen years or so and no one bitches that that's why they're great. Other than CHB anyway.
 

timlinin8th

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But isn't 'living in the right neighborhood' pretty much the same as 'being in the league that won an exhibition'? If you want to eliminate voting for All Star teams, abolish one per team minimum and allow the manager the right to choose who he goes to war with - and then play the game as such - sure. I'd be all for that. It would be pretty cool to watch. But complaining about divisional strength seems foolish to me. It fluctuates yearly. The Cubs had a soft division this year. A year or two ago the NL Central was the best in baseball.

That happens in every sport. Every year. If you catch the short end of that stick, it no different than a bad break anywhere else in sports.

Edit: I'll add to reiterate that every major sport has an unbalanced schedule. The Pats have been in a pretty shitty division the last fifteen years or so and no one bitches that that's why they're great. Other than CHB anyway.
Sure, every league has an unbalanced schedule, but baseball's is SO extreme that its a point worth bringing up. (Its a point for another thread but I've been advocating lessening the number of divisional games for a while. 19 games against each division rival is BORING to the point that I don't care about Sox/Yanks anymore.) Lessen the imbalance and far less people would have an issue with using best record to decide HFA.

I do agree that best record even with the imbalance is better than using an exhibition game to decide HFA. Want to keep the players motivated and have better ratings for the ASG? Find some other way to keep it fresh.
 

Remagellan

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I do agree that best record even with the imbalance is better than using an exhibition game to decide HFA. Want to keep the players motivated and have better ratings for the ASG? Find some other way to keep it fresh.
It really belongs in a separate thread but there is no way to motivate the players for the ASG the way they were back in the days of (Bobby) Wine and (Pete) Rose(s). The leagues were much more separate entities than they are now with their own league offices and crews of umpires, the absence of interleague play, and with the lack of player movement giving the players a sense of (literally) belonging to their league.

I'd be fine with scrapping interleague play--nobody really cares about it outside of New York and Chicago--but that would mean realigning the leagues again or expanding to add another team to each league, and neither of those things are happening anytime soon.
 

simplicio

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It really belongs in a separate thread but there is no way to motivate the players for the ASG the way they were back in the days of (Bobby) Wine and (Pete) Rose(s). The leagues were much more separate entities than they are now with their own league offices and crews of umpires, the absence of interleague play, and with the lack of player movement giving the players a sense of (literally) belonging to their league.

I'd be fine with scrapping interleague play--nobody really cares about it outside of New York and Chicago--but that would mean realigning the leagues again or expanding to add another team to each league, and neither of those things are happening anytime soon.
Hey, as long as Atlanta cares to keep sucking I'll be happy to play them.
 

DanoooME

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What about the best record head-to-head amongst all of the playoff teams? Granted, the game counts won't be the same, but at least it will be just the teams competing for the title.
 

lexrageorge

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Could just schedule an NFL game among the 2 closest cities the weekend prior to the World Series. Bears-Browns would likely have been a favorable matchup for Cubs fans.
 

Infield Infidel

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What about the best record head-to-head amongst all of the playoff teams? Granted, the game counts won't be the same, but at least it will be just the teams competing for the title.
Do you mean winning percentage against playoff teams? Because that's my favorite idea so far. It gives everyone a reasonably similar frame of reference
 

DanoooME

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Do you mean winning percentage against playoff teams? Because that's my favorite idea so far. It gives everyone a reasonably similar frame of reference
Yes, winning percentage against the other 9 playoff teams. Should have been clearer. It's a much smaller sample size, but it's probably more relevant.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I'm in the "League with the best record in Inter-league play" camp. The only feasible argument against would be the different rule sets. But, IMO the AL is disadvantaged by the no DH rule but still seems to be doing just fine. The adoption of the DH in the NL seems inevitable so even that possible argument will quickly fade. I think the best record argument is seriously flawed due to unbalanced schedules. And the ASG game deciding HFA is beyond stupid.

All that being said - none of this is important.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I'm in the "League with the best record in Inter-league play" camp. The only feasible argument against would be the different rule sets. But, IMO the AL is disadvantaged by the no DH rule but still seems to be doing just fine. The adoption of the DH in the NL seems inevitable so even that possible argument will quickly fade. I think the best record argument is seriously flawed due to unbalanced schedules. And the ASG game deciding HFA is beyond stupid.

All that being said - none of this is important.
How do you consider it inevitable when the brand new commissioner, at the infancy of his term, has already publicly stated he's against it?
 

simplicio

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Yes, winning percentage against the other 9 playoff teams. Should have been clearer. It's a much smaller sample size, but it's probably more relevant.
Or maybe just winning percentage against teams above .500.
 

McBride11

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I mean wasn't the entire Cubs infield in the ASG? If they wanted HFA they should have cared.

The ASG doesn't seem any worse than the alternating years. Both are kind of lame. Pure record has too many issues pointed out previously but is what other leagues go by, making it simple. A record against >.500 teams seems like the best option. But I guess at the end of the day, if you're the best team, shouldn't you win regardless?? See Sox, Red 2004 ALCS.
 

geoduck no quahog

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What's stupid is a sports league that has 2 completely different sets of rules so that, unlike any other sport, home field in the championship means one or the other team is automatically handicapped.

That's why a fair method of choosing HFA is important...to get around how unfair it is for one team to have a DH at home and another not.
 

teddywingman

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This idea of record vs. teams over .500 seems even more absurd. Say you swept or took 13 out of 19 against a team in your division, but they're out of the race and tanking it down the stretch with a AAAA lineup. Think of how infuriating that would be when they finish 81-81 or 80-82. Meanwhile the Padres finish out a meaningless stretch playing well against the D-backs and finish with 83 wins--giving HFA to the Cardinals.

The ASG method seems less odious to me.
 

teddywingman

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And sure... maybe just flip a coin. Or do something even more meaningless like alternate by year. And while we're at it--fuck the All Star Game. Let's not even play it.
 

SumnerH

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What's stupid is a sports league that has 2 completely different sets of rules so that, unlike any other sport, home field in the championship means one or the other team is automatically handicapped.
Statistically, baseball has about the same HFA as the NFL and NHL and much less than the NBA. https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2011/1/19/1940438/home-field-advantage-sports-stats-data?client=ms-android-google

It'd be interesting to break that out into interleague and see if the rules difference offsets that general trend .
 

mauf

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I think that was true back in the day of a single division for each league, and then in the 1970's when a number of stadiums were multiuse for football and baseball.

There is probably some benefit in today's setup in that when the playoffs start, the operators of the 10 ball parks know the potential 3 or 4 World Series dates for their respective parks. But given that rainouts can perturb the best laid plans regardless, I have to believe the planning issue could be worked around with relative ease.
Oakland is (I think) the only city where the NFL and MLB teams still share a stadium, but there are plenty of cities where the football and baseball stadiums either share parking facilities, or are close enough to one another to make simultaneous or back-to-back games infeasible. The conclusion of the LCS is way too late to begin planning for those scenarios. Knowing at the start of the postseason which league will host the World Series cuts the scenario planning in half -- this year, for example, MLB knew it didn't have to worry about the Cowboys' SNF game conflicting with a possible Rangers' home game. (I'm sure they had plans in case a rainout pushed Game 5 to Monday -- Chicago probably could handle both events simultaneously, but in other cities MLB would either have to play a day game or push the series back a day.)
 

OCST

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Oakland is (I think) the only city where the NFL and MLB teams still share a stadium, but there are plenty of cities where the football and baseball stadiums either share parking facilities, or are close enough to one another to make simultaneous or back-to-back games infeasible. The conclusion of the LCS is way too late to begin planning for those scenarios. Knowing at the start of the postseason which league will host the World Series cuts the scenario planning in half -- this year, for example, MLB knew it didn't have to worry about the Cowboys' SNF game conflicting with a possible Rangers' home game. (I'm sure they had plans in case a rainout pushed Game 5 to Monday -- Chicago probably could handle both events simultaneously, but in other cities MLB would either have to play a day game or push the series back a day.)
There was some issue with an Orioles playoff game on the same date as a Ravens game IIRC. The stadiums are next to each other and the crowds and traffic would have been too much at once.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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What's stupid is a sports league that has 2 completely different sets of rules so that, unlike any other sport, home field in the championship means one or the other team is automatically handicapped.

That's why a fair method of choosing HFA is important...to get around how unfair it is for one team to have a DH at home and another not.
I'd say the Cubs are pleased to be able to use a certain DH in 3 or 4 games this year
 

pedro1918

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There was some issue with an Orioles playoff game on the same date as a Ravens game IIRC. The stadiums are next to each other and the crowds and traffic would have been too much at once.
The issue was the defending champion Ravens opening on a Thursday at home when the Orioles had a home game scheduled. The Orioles told the NFL to go pound sand and the Ravens opened at Denver. Ravens fans still cry about about this grave injustice.

There would have been an Orioles playoff game v. Ravens game issue this past season, but the Blue Jays won the Wild Card game. Problem solved.
 

Fred not Lynn

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hbk72777

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How dare we let the World Series home field advantage be decided on the field, whether or not a year is odd or even is much more rational o_O
 

BigMike

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I think the clear answer is for each League's top seed to compete in a "Battle of the Network Stars"-type event the same day as the play-in games. Feats of strength, obstacle courses, and whatnot.
Even better make it an academic game. Even if just baseball history
 

jon abbey

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Ding dong, the dumb rule's dead:

"The league that wins baseball's All-Star Game no longer will get home-field advantage in the World Series, which instead will go to the pennant winner with the better regular-season record. The change was included in Major League Baseball's tentative new collective bargaining agreement and disclosed early Thursday to The Associated Press by a person familiar with the agreement."

https://apnews.com/331d6e369c2147709dde04ae7f0507b1/APNewsBreak:-All-Star-Game-no-longer-determines-Series-start
 

hbk72777

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I didn't mind the AS game deciding, I don't mind best record deciding.

I HATED ALTERNATING YEARS BEING THE FACTOR.

That said, any news on the extra roster spot or DH in the NL (longshot, I know)?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I liked knowing in advance when possible home WS games would be vs. road games. Made scheduling an October weekend away much easier in 2013. But this does make more sense. Heck, even the alternating rule made more sense than the ASG determining home field
 

JimD

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I didn't mind the AS game deciding, I don't mind best record deciding.

I HATED ALTERNATING YEARS BEING THE FACTOR.
This is where I was. The fuss about the ASG winner deciding HFA was ridiculous considering what was in place previously. Still, glad to see a common-sense solution prevail at last.
 

shaggydog2000

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I think they should go to an even number of games, home and home for the World Series, and then you all would get to enjoy the same utter confusion as Soccer fans get in the Champions League. What is the tie breaker for this one? Most total runs? Road wins? Road runs? Imagine the joy of going to the third tie breaker to win.