Offsides Shmoffsides

Red Right Ankle

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Because that's how I used to play it in NHL 94 and I scored like 1000 goals with Ray Bourque in that game and that was awesome
 

veritas

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I gathered that...I was hoping for an explanation for this belief.
I think there'd be more room on the ice for skating and passing, and would be a more enjoyable game. Players have gotten bigger and faster and the ice is still the same size. The blue lines artificially compress all the players into 1/3 of the ice. That makes it difficult transitioning between the three zones. There would be a lot less dumping and chasing, IMO, teams could be more creative in how they move the puck into the offensive half.
 

LogansDad

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Players being bigger and faster is an argument against getting rid of the blue lines, in my opinion, in the interest of player safety, having these guys (especially the dirty ones) flying around at each other on a full 220 feet of ice would be mayhem.

I also don't know about creativity, but I think that eliminating offsides would like lead to terrible flow issues as teams attempt to fly the zone every time they exit, which is going to lead to way more icings, or a lot more 10-9 games, which, let's be honest, are fun every once in a while, but not as the norm. It would also likely force goalies to play the puck a lot more, which is always a grand adventure in and of itself. I actually think it would exacerbate the dump and chase issue, because being able to have a player in deep would lead to even bigger difficulties for teams trying to back check and get organized defensive breakouts.

I could, of course, be entirely off base, but I really think that getting rid of offsides entirely would turn the game into a big, giant mess.

The review process, on the other hand, could stand to go under some.... errr... reviews.
 

veritas

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I think there could be a lot less icings. Without everyone smushed in one zone, breakouts would be a little easier. It's like in football, teams are more efficient on their own 20 vs inside the red zone because they have a bigger field to work with.

I don't think the game would be *drastically* different. I think the game would be more free-flowing. Transition play would be much more interesting, teams could have more set-play type attacks. Odd man rushes would definitely be more exciting. Teams would probably have consecutive possession for longer periods of time. I don't think there'd necessarily be more breakaways because defensemen would no longer have an arbitrary line they have to pinch in at.

And the obvious bonus -- less play stoppages and no video reviews of a stupid rule. I don't understand why offsides is even reviewable. Why isn't icing?
 

Dummy Hoy

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I think having no offsides would likely turn hockey into a game of pond hockey/shinny, with lots of possession dominance and home run passes. While this sounds exciting, I don't think it's really how the game is supposed to be played and I think there would be some unintended effects that would actually be boring. Shinny is fun because no one gives a shit about the score, but as soon as you started keeping score, it would start to resemble football/four corners offense. I think teams would just spread out and play keep away, and the idea of that bores me to tears. I guess something like taking away offsides on entries but forcing teams to clear when the puck does would be more palatable, but I'm not a fan of changing offsides. I think hockey is pretty exciting and doesn't need much modification right now. I'd just eliminate offisdes replays...deal with the human error.

The only change I'd make would be to minimize goalie equipment but make shooters use wooden sticks. I find an equipment change to be far less obtrusive than a major rules change.
 

cshea

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Interesting discussion. Perhaps worthy of a breakout?

I’ve always felt that removing the blue lines would lead to more conservative play. D’s would sag back more and pinch less. I think pinches create chances both ways- either keeping the puck in the offensive end or whiffing and having an odd man rush come back the other way. If you take away the blue line there is no incentive for the D to pinch, and I bet coaches would have them lay back to ensure nobody got behind them.
 

Salem's Lot

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If anyone here has ever watched high level inline hockey, where they play (albeit 4 on 4)with no blue line, it would absolutely turn into a boring to watch four corner drill. The whole game would be possession and keep away waiting for the other team to fumble a puck.
 

Red Right Ankle

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Perhaps a soccer-atyle offsides where offensive players cannot get ahead of the defenders until the puck does would cut down on home run passes and mitigate the need for D to sag back.

Doesn't solve the refereeing issues (actually worsens them with no fixed line) or the potential for the game to end up a 4 corners possession game.
 

TFP

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Perhaps a soccer-atyle offsides where offensive players cannot get ahead of the defenders until the puck does would cut down on home run passes and mitigate the need for D to sag back.

Doesn't solve the refereeing issues (actually worsens them with no fixed line) or the potential for the game to end up a 4 corners possession game.
Yeah my first thought is that it wouldn't work because linesmen wouldn't be in position to see it and would make stuff in the offensive zone a nightmare.

While I like the idea behind it all, I feel like it fundamentally changes the game too much and would create a lot of unintended consequences (especially the 4 corners offense) that it wouldn't be a net positive.
 

Saints Rest

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I am surprised that with the elimination of the two-line offsides, no team has experimented with extreme garbage hanging. By which I mean, leave your best shooter down around your opponent’s blue line and play 4v5 in your own end (ie shorthanded) but with the ability to dump a puck out of your own end to a waiting — and wide open — teammate.
 

cshea

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I don’t think it would ever happen as you outlined it. I can’t think of a game situation where it would be used. The “attacking” team would just put D man back with the floater.
 

TFP

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I am surprised that with the elimination of the two-line offsides, no team has experimented with extreme garbage hanging. By which I mean, leave your best shooter down around your opponent’s blue line and play 4v5 in your own end (ie shorthanded) but with the ability to dump a puck out of your own end to a waiting — and wide open — teammate.
It's because teams are too good and guys are too fast. So teams would get way too many scoring chances playing 5 on 4, plus when you do spring the hanger he'll be starting from a relative standstill so guys will likely be able to catch him from behind if they are moving and can get a head start. Teams will also adjust and drop a D man back on the hanger, leaving it 4 on 4 in the D zone which favors the offense since there is more space.

That said, more teams lately have been flying guys from the D zone once possession changes.
 

Red Right Ankle

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Yeah my first thought is that it wouldn't work because linesmen wouldn't be in position to see it and would make stuff in the offensive zone a nightmare.

While I like the idea behind it all, I feel like it fundamentally changes the game too much and would create a lot of unintended consequences (especially the 4 corners offense) that it wouldn't be a net positive.
I really just want to cut down on stoppages as continuous stretches of play are almost always the best hockey. Eliminating or making a big change to the offsides rules is probably too much, though.

Feels like they might be able to use technology to eliminate offsides replays without sacrificing accuracy with trackers or some such on the skaters and puck. So when an offensive player goes into the zone before the puck a light goes on or there is some form of notification for the refs. Then the refs are left to determine if the offense gets possession immediately afterward the offsides occurs.

At least force offsides replays to be in real time. Taking 5 minutes to determine if there is a tiny sliver of white between the skate and the blue line is ridiculous.
 

wiffleballhero

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I am surprised that with the elimination of the two-line offsides, no team has experimented with extreme garbage hanging. By which I mean, leave your best shooter down around your opponent’s blue line and play 4v5 in your own end (ie shorthanded) but with the ability to dump a puck out of your own end to a waiting — and wide open — teammate.
This is a beer league move -- and a good one when down a goal -- where puck possession is inconsistent enough that playing "down" 5v4 is worth the risk, especially because there is often greater variance in the speed of players so you can really stick a poacher out there who can make this work on the dump. In the NHL, not so much. Everyone is too fast and the risk/reward is skewed toward the team with five players and possession.

Getting rid of icing is a non-starter. It would make the game terrible for the reasons articulated already. That said, I am open to the idea that once over your own blue line, you could dump in from there. That would stretch the ice.

Also, if the sense is that the blue line slows things down, compressing the neutral zone even more would help. But the real solution -- never to be had -- is to go to the international rink size. I'd love that.
 

BigJimEd

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International rink size gets my vote.

The tweak I find most interesting is allowing players into offensive zone as long as the puck is across the red line or even in just in the neutral zone.
 

veritas

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International rink size gets my vote.

The tweak I find most interesting is allowing players into offensive zone as long as the puck is across the red line or even in just in the neutral zone.
That’s essentially getting rid of offsides but adding a “three line pass” rule, which I think is a great idea.

International rink size just isn’t feasible in most NHL arenas, alas
 

veritas

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If you define offense as shots/goals, then maybe. But I think passing and skating with the puck increases a lot, while mucking in the corners, playing ping-pong in the neutral zone, and dumping and chasing decreases. Which are aesthetically very good, IMO.
 

kenneycb

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I mean I love a nice pass as much as the next person but opportunities tend to be the best proxy for excitement, which, 90% of the time are shots/shot attempts. The Olympic game is nice as a change every few years but guys can slow the pace down significantly because they can use space to wait for things to open up. That may create more chances but they are less in the "flow" of the game.
 

The Long Tater

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The sport that needs to get rid of its offsides rule is soccer. That is one dull sport. Allow offensive players to get ahead of the defense for passes, that would be something.

In ice hockey, the need is much less pronounced. The game is super exciting as it is. What, exactly, are you trying to fix?
 

wiffleballhero

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The sport that needs to get rid of its offsides rule is soccer. That is one dull sport. Allow offensive players to get ahead of the defense for passes, that would be something.

In ice hockey, the need is much less pronounced. The game is super exciting as it is. What, exactly, are you trying to fix?
Ironically, soccer needs a blue line. There is something perverse about a player getting caught in an offsides trap in the flow of the game, 10 meters from the goal. But you can't do away with offsides altogether in soccer, in essence, for the same reason you can't in hockey -- just booting the ball 90 meters to a poacher is no fun either.

But a blue line / 2/3 line where you have to cross it before the offense can open up would be great for soccer.
 

wiffleballhero

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Somewhere in the back of my head, I've been thinking about this thread and now I think the blue line should be dropped for power plays. At least I think it would be fun to try.

It would make the power play situation so much more compelling and more valuable both because you could enter the zone more easily (as discussed in the this thread 2+ years ago) and because with no blue line, offense could be sustained much more powerfully without having to fully reset every time the puck slips past the line.
 

yeahlunchbox

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Perhaps a soccer-atyle offsides where offensive players cannot get ahead of the defenders until the puck does would cut down on home run passes and mitigate the need for D to sag back.

Doesn't solve the refereeing issues (actually worsens them with no fixed line) or the potential for the game to end up a 4 corners possession game.
It's so weird that people want to turn every sport into soccer, which is just a dreadful sport to watch. If anything, soccer needs to adopt rules from other sports to get better. As someone else mentioned later, soccer needs to adopt a blue line/hockey style offsides rule. Right now the soccer offsides rule is the second dumbest rule in all of sports.
 

cshea

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I think removing the blue line would move the puck further away from the net and create less scoring chances. It'd just spread teams out instead of forcing them inside more.
 

Red Right Ankle

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It's so weird that people want to turn every sport into soccer, which is just a dreadful sport to watch. If anything, soccer needs to adopt rules from other sports to get better. As someone else mentioned later, soccer needs to adopt a blue line/hockey style offsides rule. Right now the soccer offsides rule is the second dumbest rule in all of sports.
Yeah, we sorta covered that later in the thread. I agree it wouldn't work well to remove the blue line and use a soccer offsides rule because, as TFP pointed out, it would be too hard for the refs.

At any rate, it's not the blue line I hate, it's the stoppages for nitpicking. No reviews, call it in real time or let it go. Use a tracking system or let the refs do it, whatever, just stop stopping play for 5 minutes of pixel parsing.
 

yeahlunchbox

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Fair enough, reviews have gotten way out of control in all sports. It seems it was instituted to reverse the clear cut missed calls and has evolved as you said into pixel parsing.
 

SoxFanInCali

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As someone else mentioned later, soccer needs to adopt a blue line/hockey style offsides rule. Right now the soccer offsides rule is the second dumbest rule in all of sports.
They kinda have one. You can't be offside in your own half of the field, so if the defense comes too far forward, a player can run behind and get on the end of a long pass and still be onside. You see it occasionally when a team throws everyone forward in search of a tying goal late.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STjxoGgFIzk