Pablo Sandoval DFA

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
SoSH Member
This should be interesting. Pablo talked a lot of shit on his way out of town. On the other hand, Larry has never been one to pass up a marketing opportunity.
Also, Hwang is hitting .194, Arroyo is out for the season, and Bobby Evans will probably get a fringe reliever arm for Nunez. So unless you really love Connor Gillaspie, there's no one else to play 3B.

Any shit-talking by Pablo towards the Giants should be mitigated by the fact his hurt pride allowed them to dodge a huge bullet, since they would have signed him to basically the same deal the Red Sox gave him barring the weight clause. It's possible Bobby Evans is getting fired if Pablo signs that deal and the Giants are still 34-56.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
35,725
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Man, it's been a DFA bloodbath lately. Pablo, Craig, Peralta....today is the day Dombrowski decided to settle all family business.

The amount of money they're eating is pretty shocking, of course, but DD appears to understand the idea of a sunk cost and by Lord was Sandoval a sunk cost.

This deal is probably reasons 1 and 1A why Cherington isn't here any more.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
All of the above is probably true. But DFA is NOT the same thing as waived. There's a tiny chance the Sox could get something back for him in trade.

They've got 10 days to do something with him. I think Wikipedia has the current rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_for_assignment

They *could* trade him and pay 90-95% of his contract and get a B or C level minor leaguer back from a team that doesn't want to risk another team with a higher slot on the waiver boards to grab him for nothing. It's unlikely, of course, but something to root for.
 

Lars The Wanderer

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
3,833
San Francisco
Also, Hwang is hitting .194, Arroyo is out for the season, and Bobby Evans will probably get a fringe reliever arm for Nunez. So unless you really love Connor Gillaspie, there's no one else to play 3B.

Any shit-talking by Pablo towards the Giants should be mitigated by the fact his hurt pride allowed them to dodge a huge bullet, since they would have signed him to basically the same deal the Red Sox gave him barring the weight clause. It's possible Bobby Evans is getting fired if Pablo signs that deal and the Giants are still 34-56.
There was a Merc interview with Sabean the other day and he sounded pissed...and I mean, like furious. It was pretty interesting. I think he might be taking over the reins again and Evans would be GM in name only. Brian basically said they were willing to deal anyone other than Posey, Bumgarner and Crawford; which I guess is bad news for Belt.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,371
Pioneer Valley
Yes, the Giants would only owe the minimum. This is absolutely 100% happening.
IIRC, the Giants offered him a contract the same time the Sox did, with a major clause requiring him to follow a diet, one that they devised. He found this insulting and signed with the Sox. So, the Giants may put him on the 40 man, because they are having such an awful year anyway, but it goes without saying, doesn't it, that they are thrilled that he turned down their contract offer?
Edit: see now that Spaceman's B mentions the diet clause in a later post. Never mind!
 

pokey_reese

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 25, 2008
16,247
Boston, MA
Do you hate the guy for taking the easy money and then not doing a thing to earn it, or do you hate the guy who gave him the opportunity to take that money in the first place? Or do you not bother hating either of them, because we all make mistakes, and simply like the guy who correctly responded to the sunk cost? Given that we will probably never know how much of this signing decision came from ownership vs. Ben, I have to just go with the latter. Thanks Dave. Pablo, you were the absolute worst, but I bear you no particular ill-will now that you aren't my problem anymore.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
SoSH Member
There was a Merc interview with Sabean the other day and he sounded pissed...and I mean, like furious. It was pretty interesting. I think he might be taking over the reins again and Evans would be GM in name only. Brian basically said they were anyone other than Posey, Bumgarner and Crawford; which I guess is bad news for Belt.
I am all for this. I haven't been impressed with the Bobby Evans Experience whatsoever. For one thing, one of Sabean's best traits was the bargain bin guy the Giants would find every year. Those guys litter the World Series teams: Torres, Huff, Burrell, Vogelsong, Scutaro, Ishikawa, Morse. Evans hasn't stuck on one of those guys yet, with the possible exception of Connor Gillaspie. It's really noticeable how he can't fix an offense on the fly the way Sabean could. He was downright flailing earlier in the year with signing Melvin Upton Jr, bringing up a not-ready Christian Arroyo and then sticking with him long after it was clear he wasn't ready, and then just bringing anybody up from AA or AAA *except* Hwang, who got pissed enough to publicly threaten to exercise the option making him a free agent if he wasn't bought up by July 1st.

Belt is one of the few guys with trade value who isn't irreplaceable like Posey and Bum (if healthy) are. Crawford has been terrible at the plate this year so you're better off keeping him.

The Giants are gonna need to hit on some lottery tickets if they're seriously going to contend in 2018 or 2019 (Hank Schulman seemed to imply the latter was the team's thinking in a recent interview). Pablo is one of those lottery tickets. And even if he sucks, you probably get a little ratings bump, some extra Panda hats sold from storage, and a few extra tickets sold. This is the worst Giants team of my lifetime so they could use that. They signed Dan Uggla in 2014, so cooked DFA'd All-Stars is in their recent past.
 

budcrew08

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 30, 2007
8,552
upstate NY
I think this is a good move overall. Pablo has been hurt, then struggled, and has been given chances and chances to come back and he has failed to do so. Despite a big money deal, the Sox are cutting bait, and in the long run that's a good thing. Maybe they will promote Devers or trade, but Marrero and Lin have been good stopgaps in the short term.
 

Adrian's Dome

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2010
4,424
Do you hate the guy for taking the easy money and then not doing a thing to earn it, or do you hate the guy who gave him the opportunity to take that money in the first place? Or do you not bother hating either of them, because we all make mistakes, and simply like the guy who correctly responded to the sunk cost? Given that we will probably never know how much of this signing decision came from ownership vs. Ben, I have to just go with the latter. Thanks Dave. Pablo, you were the absolute worst, but I bear you no particular ill-will now that you aren't my problem anymore.
I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I hated both the player and the guy that offered him the contract. RIP to another Cherington gem.

Sunk costs are terrible in terms of dollars, but recognizing that the roster spot is more valuable than the cost and justification of having him on the field is a good thing. Move forward and hope Devers takes the spot and runs with it.
 

TheCone

New Member
Apr 12, 2009
23
Quote from Smiling Joe Hesketh...."today is the day Dombrowski decided to settle all family business".

So dont tell me youre innocent, Panda, it insults my intelligence. So, tell me who approached you...Cherrington or Luchino?
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
58,869
San Andreas Fault
You knew it was over for Sandoval when Farrell himself over a week ago said something like "there's new energy in the clubhouse these days while we're hearing "Linny" or "Linsanity". We're not about to change things in a week or so. Not sure if he mentioned Deven as well.
 
Last edited:

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
The most annoying part of all this is that, as many were advocating at the time, the Sox could've signed Chase Headley for a much more reasonable deal. Not that Headley has been hitting lights out for the Yankees but he's Babe Ruth compared to what Panda provided.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Lin has a .448 BABIP. Before this year, he's never hit. He may stay hot, and I guess that's what the Sox would be banking on. Just seems Marrero has the better pedigree.
His BAbip in the minors this year was .354. In the majors, he also has a 14.9% BB rate and 33% LD rate. Not sure they mean much of anything at all when it's a sample size of 47 PA and his BAbip sample size is all of 29.

I also think Lin stays at 3b when Holt is back if he continues to hit. Ride Lin's success until he proves it's a fluke or proves it is real.
 

Beale13

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 2, 2006
395
I have no ill will towards the guy personally, but I don't ever want to see him on a baseball field again, anywhere. I know baseball rules say otherwise, but he's being paid 49.5 million dollars not to play as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if he's a nice guy. When I hear "nice guy" in contexts like this, all I can think of is this:

 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
I thought only players on the 40-Man roster counted towards the salary cap. And if Panda is unclaimed and released into the wild, the Sox while stil owing him the contractual amount, were no longer liable for the salary cap implications of his contract.
No, though I see where the confusion comes from given the Castillo and Craig examples, but that's a loophole that was unavailable in this case due to Pablo's service time.

If you release a player or trade him and offset his salary, that money goes on your books. Some examples are the Sox carrying money for Edgar Renteria when they traded him to Atlanta; the Angels still carrying Josh Hamilton this year even though they trade him to Texas; and the Yankees still carrying the last season of ARod's deal.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

If you go to that link and look at a particular team, click the link at the top of an individual team's page that says "2017-2022 payroll and tax tracker". IF you scroll the bottom of the spreadsheet, the players listed in italics are these types of obligations or in some cases, credits the team receives for other teams including salary in a trade, i.e. the Twins still cover $4M of Ricky Nolasco's obligation for LAA.
 

Rasputin

Will outlive SeanBerry
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
29,421
Not here
Lin has a .448 BABIP. Before this year, he's never hit. He may stay hot, and I guess that's what the Sox would be banking on. Just seems Marrero has the better pedigree.
I don't really give a shit about pedigree. We know that Lin changed his approach at the plate this year and the Sox would be banking on that change having a real impact, not on Lin to continue to get lucky.

I mean, Lin could regress by .150 points of OPS and still be out OPSing Marrero by a hundred points.

And, mind you, we're not looking for someone who is going to hold down the position for years, but someone to be better than terrible until Devers is ready. Maybe that's a month. Maybe it's three. If it's more than three months, there's an off season in between to remedy the situation.
 

ShaneTrot

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2002
6,401
Overland Park, KS
I have been mystified by this guy's tenure in Boston. He was fat in SF and had an average OPS+ of 123.7 from 2008-2014. He hit well for his whole tenure in SF. He was never that good defensively in SF, so should we be surprised that he sucked at third in Boston?
I like baseball because a lot of the ability is God-given and doesn't seem to be based on body type. I can't hit a lick, that's why I am in awe of people who can. Michael Jordan sucked as a baseball player but Billy Butler, Matt Stairs and Jon Kruk had pretty nice careers. We just watched Ortiz have an unbelievable career and he never appeared to be a paragon of fitness. Tony Gwynn was a HOFer.
I guess the answer is the injuries, lack of fitness and father time got him.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
There's a whole lot of people in this thread misspelling Marrero's first name.

It's Deven, folks. Not Devers.

You'll be seeing a guy named Deven playing third base for the Boston Red Sox quite a bit over the next many weeks. That's how it's spelled. Not Devers.
 

Rasputin

Will outlive SeanBerry
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
29,421
Not here
There's a whole lot of people in this thread misspelling Marrero's first name.

It's Deven, folks. Not Devers.

You'll be seeing a guy named Deven playing third base for the Boston Red Sox quite a bit over the next many weeks. That's how it's spelled. Not Devers.
I am as sure that people are aware of that as I am that you're aware that Deven is not the answer at third. Devers may be. Whoever we see for the next seventeen days is just keeping the bag warm for Devers or someone to be acquired.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205
Amazed it took this long. Had him pegged to be kicked to the curb or traded for some spare belts by the middle of his second season. No knock on the guy - he went for the money which was his prerogative. Cherington, on the other hand, bears responsibility for perhaps one of the worst contracts ever offered to a MLB free agent.

Edit: autocorrect sucks
 
Last edited:

sean1562

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 17, 2011
3,620
I don't really give a shit about pedigree. We know that Lin changed his approach at the plate this year and the Sox would be banking on that change having a real impact, not on Lin to continue to get lucky.

I mean, Lin could regress by .150 points of OPS and still be out OPSing Marrero by a hundred points.

And, mind you, we're not looking for someone who is going to hold down the position for years, but someone to be better than terrible until Devers is ready. Maybe that's a month. Maybe it's three. If it's more than three months, there's an off season in between to remedy the situation.

Giving a shit about pedigree is why Pablo Sandoval was penciled in as our starting 3B and Travis Shaw is now playing for the Brewers. What kind of pedigree does Marerro have? He has been terrible, let Lin play until h is OPS is hovering around .600, then promote Devers.
 

Reggie's Racquet

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2009
7,235
Florida/Montana
The most annoying part of all this is that, as many were advocating at the time, the Sox could've signed Chase Headley for a much more reasonable deal. Not that Headley has been hitting lights out for the Yankees but he's Babe Ruth compared to what Panda provided.
The most annoying part of this is they could have signed Adrian Beltre and the 3B problem would have been solved for a long time.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,014
Oregon
What kind of pedigree does Marerro have? He has been terrible.
Over the past month, he's batting .348 with a .385 OBP ... and plays solid to stellar defense. Granted, it's a SSS; but the trend is in the direction of Marrero being a useful player
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
Over the past month, he's batting .348 with a .385 OBP ... and plays solid to stellar defense. Granted, it's a SSS; but the trend is in the direction of Marrero being a useful player
This coincides with something I read in an article recently. Supposedly, his mechanics were changing from PA to PA and they worked with him to quiet that down. I'm not in any way suggesting that Marrero is an .800 OPS hitter, but there's enough to at least keep an eye on and maybe hope he can be worthy of a bench spot long term.
 

Rasputin

Will outlive SeanBerry
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
29,421
Not here
Over the past month, he's batting .348 with a .385 OBP ... and plays solid to stellar defense. Granted, it's a SSS; but the trend is in the direction of Marrero being a useful player
That's not pedigree and it comes at a time when he's sharing time with Lin. Personally, my hope is that they maintain the status quo until the status is no longer quo.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,014
Oregon
That's not pedigree and it comes at a time when he's sharing time with Lin. Personally, my hope is that they maintain the status quo until the status is no longer quo.
I was responding to the part of the post where the poster said Marrero has been terrible. He hasn't been terrible.

But, pedants gonna pedant
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Sandoval had -2.0 WAR in exchange for $95 million. I'm no fancy math or stats-talking guy, but I'm pretty sure that's not ideal.
How do you even figure out how much money that is per win? $95 million divided by -2 wins = -$47.5 million per win. That would mean the Sox GET PAID $47.5 million per win.

Clearly I'm not a fancy math guy either.
 

Rasputin

Will outlive SeanBerry
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
29,421
Not here
I was responding to the part of the post where the poster said Marrero has been terrible. He hasn't been terrible.

But, pedants gonna pedant
Well, tedious pedantry IS my superpower. You gotta exercise that shit or you lose it, you know.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,613
edit: accidental post. That said, I'm glad he's gone. Don't "hate him", but sure hated him being on the field.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,367
Ben deserves plenty of blame for this signing, but didn't Panda also help 'retire' LL to Pawtucket?
The Valentine hiring and failed Lester negotiation likely were bigger factors in LL's "retirement."

In a bizarre twist, paying Sandoval a huge heap of $ while not playing for your team might help the MLBPA make a stronger case that players generally are underpaid given the revealed value of a roster spot to a team.
 

DanoooME

above replacement level
SoSH Member
Mar 16, 2008
19,831
Henderson, NV
All of the above is probably true. But DFA is NOT the same thing as waived. There's a tiny chance the Sox could get something back for him in trade.

They've got 10 days to do something with him. I think Wikipedia has the current rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_for_assignment

They *could* trade him and pay 90-95% of his contract and get a B or C level minor leaguer back from a team that doesn't want to risk another team with a higher slot on the waiver boards to grab him for nothing. It's unlikely, of course, but something to root for.
If Pablo is claimed on waivers, the claiming team assumes the entire contract. He could be traded but the risk won't be because someone claims him.

He'll be a FA, so he could sign with anyone. If the Sox pick up all but $0.75M or so of the remainder of the deal, then a trade comes into play, but I can't see any team even valuing him that much.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
All of the above is probably true. But DFA is NOT the same thing as waived. There's a tiny chance the Sox could get something back for him in trade.

They've got 10 days to do something with him. I think Wikipedia has the current rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_for_assignment

They *could* trade him and pay 90-95% of his contract and get a B or C level minor leaguer back from a team that doesn't want to risk another team with a higher slot on the waiver boards to grab him for nothing. It's unlikely, of course, but something to root for.
I can't think of a situation where he doesn't make your team worse. It's not like he can pinch-run or take on some minor role. There is literally nothing he does well for a team now. So I don't foresee any trade. He'll be lucky to get a minor league offer once he's available for free.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,536
Grant Brisbee, Giants blogger, writes up this news.
I think that this guy hits the nail on the head with this: "Lesson #1: Free agents will break your heart"

The Sox have signed a lot of free agents since it began and only one (Manny) was able to perform through out his entire contract. And he wasn't without issues--though I'll contend that his production outweighed his off-the-field crap, though YMMV. And it's not just the Red Sox, more often than not, free agents never live up to their contract or they break down or they do something to piss the home town fans off*. These relationships often begin with a lot of promise, but they almost always end up broken.

* I believe that fans give big-time free agents less rope than a home grown or traded for players because there's always that underlying thought that maybe this guy doesn't like your team, he's in it for the money. If we're being truthful here, it shouldn't matter whether you were drafted by the Sox or signed by the Sox, you're not doing this for free. But it just seems different, the papers always make a big deal about how much the player signed for and it's always there. When they inevitably slow down and do poorly, it seems that the fan base turns on these players quicker than others.

Does this mean that the Sox shouldn't sign free agents? No. That's simply not going to happen, mainly because it would look like that the front office doesn't care. Remember the "Bridge Year" fiasco? That's all people talked about for a summer. But, it would help if the Sox didn't sign players to such long-term contracts, but that won't happen either because another team will and the Sox will look incompetent.

So what's the bottom line? The bottom line is that within three or four years, there's going to be another thread on this august board talking about the same damn thing. Player X makes too much money, he sucks and he just got DFA'ed, what are we to do?
 

oumbi

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2006
4,167
I don't really give a shit about pedigree. We know that Lin changed his approach at the plate this year and the Sox would be banking on that change having a real impact, not on Lin to continue to get lucky.

I mean, Lin could regress by .150 points of OPS and still be out OPSing Marrero by a hundred points.

And, mind you, we're not looking for someone who is going to hold down the position for years, but someone to be better than terrible until Devers is ready. Maybe that's a month. Maybe it's three. If it's more than three months, there's an off season in between to remedy the situation.
For me, the bolded is the key. Since changing his hitting approach in the minor leagues earlier this year Lin has hit the ball very well. This does not mean he will continue to do so and it is a sss, but for now, Lin is ahead of Marrero in that Lin made a jump in hitting based upon changing his approach. Marrero continues to hit in the same way he always has.

For Lin, there may be no "mean" to which he will regress. He pre-change may have resulted in a new hitter with very different results. I don't think we should simply average the two together and assume that is his future mean. That is, the old Lin may not be useful in foretelling the future Lin.

Since the change in approach, Lin has done well. He may not keep it up, but we can not, with much confidence, say he will certainly return to the pre-change Lin. At least with Lin now, the possibility exists that the Sox now have a legitimate hitter at third. With Marrero, it is harder to say this since he has not made any changes that I know of, thus the possibility of him improving seems to be less.

Heck, if nothing else, Lin is currently hot so the Sox should play him until he isn't.

EDIT: Adding a link to a SoSH discussion on Lin so as to provide some background any conversation here.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/two-way-lin.20128/#post-2326048
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
I think that this guy hits the nail on the head with this: "Lesson #1: Free agents will break your heart"

The Sox have signed a lot of free agents since it began and only one (Manny) was able to perform through out his entire contract. And he wasn't without issues--though I'll contend that his production outweighed his off-the-field crap, though YMMV.
I assume you mean top-dollar big-name free agents? Because there's a long list of modest signings that have paid off handsomely. And by "paid off" I assume you mean every year? Because even Lackey paid off in the end, as did Damon, Foulke, etc.
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2006
35,626
Maui
Dave Dombrowski is going to be on MLB TV "The Rundown" in a couple minutes.
 

TheYaz67

Member
SoSH Member
May 21, 2004
4,712
Justia Omnibus
Sandoval had -2.0 WAR in exchange for $95 million. I'm no fancy math or stats-talking guy, but I'm pretty sure that's not ideal.
Certainly beats the 1.7 WAR put up by free agent Adam Dunn in 4 years of service with the White Sox (for the bargain bin price of $56 million)....

The Red Sox odyssey to find a reliable 3B man grinds on! Really hoping the solution comes from within in the next season or two, as I imagine FA's will be wary taking the job given the Panda-sized cloud that is now hanging over the idea of paying another FA handsomely to come play third base here - you would have a shorter leash with the fans than most FAs...
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,536
I assume you mean top-dollar big-name free agents? Because there's a long list of modest signings that have paid off handsomely. And by "paid off" I assume you mean every year? Because even Lackey paid off in the end, as did Damon, Foulke, etc.
Yes. I alluded to it at the bottom of my post, but neglected to mention it at the top.

Lackey had a really good year his second to last year in Boston, but prior to that he was a garbage fire. And Foulke was nails in 2004, but by 2005 he wasn't nearly the same pitcher (to be fair, he practically blew out his arm getting Boston a Championship). He wasn't nearly as effective for the rest of his tenure in Boston and wasn't even the closer his last year here.

I do mean every year, when talking about paying off. Though I guess it determines your definition of paying off. Does a championship season define a contract paying off? How about an ALCS appearance? Playoffs? Over .500? Best player on a bad team? You could probably make a really good argument for any of these categories.

My thinking is that you pay a free agent x amount for a level of performance. Yes, there will be slippage in that performance to be expected, but I think that in order for a player to "pay off", his performance shouldn't completely fall of a cliff.

I will agree that Damon was a value pretty much the entirety of his time here.
 

begranter

Couldn't get into a real school
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 9, 2007
2,344
Good riddance.

When the incumbent team won't sign a player without a weight clause and you can't get insurance for the contract, I take that as a pretty good sign it's a high risk contract. Let's hope this ownership group has learned from this massive mistake.
 

sean1562

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 17, 2011
3,620
i hope we sign at least betts to a long term deal. Maybe sale too, after his contract is over.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,205
The blog piece was good but it ignores a few facts.

First, Sandoval was coming off his third straight year of declines by many measures (e.g. OPS+).

In addition, he had his healthiest season of his career, playing more than 150 games for only the third time in his then seven year career. And of course some of his missed time may have been attributable to his conditioning. Was it reasonable to expect that an athlete with a history of conditioning and health volatility was going to trend towards being injury free into his late 20s/early 30s?

These things should have been red flags for the then Sox braintrust. And this also ignores the fact that Sandoval was coming from playing in a city that loves but does not obsess over it's athletes the way Boston does. It wasn't a factor in this case but in many instances (see Carl Crawford for example ), the fans and the media in Boston can, at the margins, impact a player's performance for the local team, especially if they get off to a rocky start. Sandoval, who was known to be sensitive about his conditioning issues, was not an ideal candidate to settle right into the fishbowl existence that Boston athletes experience.

In short, this was a bad signing and many of us knew it at the time. It's mystifying how someone like Cherington and/or the rest of the Sox management, all of whom were pretty sharp in general, failed to see it that way.
 
Last edited:

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,055
Hingham, MA
Yes. I alluded to it at the bottom of my post, but neglected to mention it at the top.

Lackey had a really good year his second to last year in Boston, but prior to that he was a garbage fire. And Foulke was nails in 2004, but by 2005 he wasn't nearly the same pitcher (to be fair, he practically blew out his arm getting Boston a Championship). He wasn't nearly as effective for the rest of his tenure in Boston and wasn't even the closer his last year here.

I do mean every year, when talking about paying off. Though I guess it determines your definition of paying off. Does a championship season define a contract paying off? How about an ALCS appearance? Playoffs? Over .500? Best player on a bad team? You could probably make a really good argument for any of these categories.

My thinking is that you pay a free agent x amount for a level of performance. Yes, there will be slippage in that performance to be expected, but I think that in order for a player to "pay off", his performance shouldn't completely fall of a cliff.

I will agree that Damon was a value pretty much the entirety of his time here.
Agree with all this. I think both Manny and Drew were great signings from this perspective although Drew's last year was awful