Pedro Martinez: the Yoda of Pitching

[MentalDisabldLst]

MLB.com just put together an in-depth puff piece about Pedro's second career with the Sox.  Fans of his should read the whole damn thing, because PEDRO, but a few quick teasers are in order:
 
 

Considering the money he made and the accomplishments that decorated his career, it would be easy for Martinez to just sit back on his boat in the Dominican Republic or look at the beach near his home in Miami.  But his job with the Red Sox, though not as glamorous as the one he had as a player, is one Martinez has really taken to.
 
"It's just that I think I have so much to offer, stuff that I'm not going to put into use anymore," Martinez said. "I might as well pass it along. I'm trying to do that. I'm trying to get involved more in baseball and more with the young players and the veteran players. Whoever needs me. I would just love to pass everything I know -- all my knowledge, all of my experience -- to some of those guys, and hopefully get some good results out of every one of them."
 
Martinez had the thrill of seeing results from some of his labor last year.  In the early part of 2013, Martinez heard that lefty Drake Britton had been struggling a bit. So he volunteered to take a trip to Double-A Portland to spend time with him. By later in the summer, Britton was getting big outs at Fenway Park during a pennant race.
 
"For him to come to town like that, it's special. He flew into Portland and I got to sit down with him for about an hour. It was amazing," said Britton.
 
What type of wisdom did Martinez impart on Britton, who was charged with DUI last spring?
 
"Just the attitude and mentality that I need to have," Britton said. "Being selfless, not selfish. Just basically getting my priorities straight. He's been a very good mentor. Just to have a guy like that come to town and just reassure me and tell me that I have it and it's there and it's just about doing these other minor little things to piece it all together was pretty cool. That's Pedro Martinez. It's awesome to hear that."
 
For Martinez, it was complete gratification, and it reassured him that his second baseball career is worthwhile.
 
"Well, the first thing was I was honest to him. I will always be," Martinez said. "I was straightforward with him and I told him exactly what I would probably love to hear if I was in the same situation. I talk about his stuff, trusting his stuff, about his personal life, how he should treat some of the things that were happening. How much of a battle he wanted to put up after things like that happened.
 
"I'm extremely proud of him, extremely proud to see him overcome all that and actually pay me back. That's all I wanted -- I wanted to see him have success. And to see him at the end of the year pitching so well and doing so well for the team, helping the team so much, it really made me like a proud father."

 
And about his TV appearances:
 
 

Of course, Martinez's job with the Red Sox isn't his only profession. He broke into the media during the postseason last year, serving as an engaging studio host for TBS.  Martinez will work for TBS again in 2014.
 
"You know what? I have a lot more respect for you guys," Martinez said. "I thought TV was just, 'Sit down and talk about baseball.' Especially analyzing. I have to really tip my hat to some of you for the work you do. It's so much searching and little details that you have to look at, game-changing situations.
 
"It's a lot more work than I thought, but it's really interesting and I had a great time, especially working with the guys I was working with. It was great. They were true professionals, guys that were really on top of the game. And not only that, they were trying to teach me every day how to become more comfortable. Yes, I have one more year with TBS, and who knows along the way? But I'll remain in baseball. I don't want to go away from baseball."

 
There's more, about the hall of fame and other players he'd like to work with.  But I think it's really cool that despite his semi-acrimonious departure, he's helping out the Red Sox rather than... well, the Expos he knew don't exist anymore, and the Mets are the Mets, but at least he's not with the Dodgers.  Can still wear my #45 jersey with pride.

 

[brandonchristensen]

The whole Pedro experience was such a fluke by the Red Sox. A once in a lifetime fluke.

Couldn't be happier that it happened, though. And I'm really excited that he is back with the team.

 

[Reverend]

Funny, I literally I just read that (gee, I wonder what has us synchronized...). Man, he's in a good place isn't he? So nice amends were made after he left for the Mets.
 
It's kinda funny he flew to Portland basically to play Britton's godfather. Obviously, it's a puff piece, but I would have liked to hear more about what he thinks he can teach mechanically and how, like when he taught RDR his changeup.
 
Nice feel good piece though, definitely. Pedro.

 

[Corsi]

I'll never look at his 1999 and 2000 statlines and not giggle to myself.
 
41-10
1.90 ERA
0.830 WHIP
430.1 IP
597 K
69 BB

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Funny, I literally I just read that (gee, I wonder what has us synchronized...). Man, he's in a good place isn't he? So nice amends were made after he left for the Mets.
 
It's kinda funny he flew to Portland basically to play Britton's godfather. Obviously, it's a puff piece, but I would have liked to hear more about what he thinks he can teach mechanically and how, like when he taught RDR his changeup.
 
Nice feel good piece though, definitely. Pedro.

 
Last year when he came to Portland the local paper ran a front page, top of the fold full length picture of Pedro talking to a group of both Sea Dogs and Fisher Cats players out in the field before a game. It seems that no matter the uniform, the players want to hear what he has to say.
 
And this:

 
"You know what? I have a lot more respect for you guys," Martinez said. "I thought TV was just, 'Sit down and talk about baseball.' Especially analyzing. I have to really tip my hat to some of you for the work you do. It's so much searching and little details that you have to look at, game-changing situations.

 
is really interesting to me. The local writers always accused him of being a diva and arrogant, but Pedro saying the TV job is tougher than he thought shows his introspectiveness and the ability to acknowledge his own shortcomings while expressing a desire to improve. Says a lot about him.
 
In all ways he is the best.

 

[Corsi]

Has Pedro ever given a canned answer to anything?  God, I love the guy.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

The whole Pedro experience was such a fluke by the Red Sox. A once in a lifetime fluke.

Couldn't be happier that it happened, though. And I'm really excited that he is back with the team.

 
Right.  There were no talent judges who decided this deal would make sense.
 
 
In other news Carl Pavano announced his retirement yesterday

 

[CoRP]

I'll never look at his 1999 and 2000 statlines and not giggle to myself.
 
41-10
1.90 ERA
0.830 WHIP
430.1 IP
597 K
69 BB

12.5K/9
1.4BB/9
8.65K/BB

 

[RSN Diaspora]

It was generally accepted that Duquette would meet whatever demands the Expos made of the Sox' farm system, which led other teams to back off, but while Armas and Pavano were highly-touted prospects, the return on investment was absurd. Pavano and Armas each had fewer total decisions than Pedro had wins, and Pavano's $39.95m deal with NYY is in the same category as Mo Vaughn's deal with the Angels and Mets, Barry Zito/Giants, Carlos Silva/Mariners, etc.

 

[Seabass]

I'll never look at his 1999 and 2000 statlines and not giggle to myself.
 
41-10
1.90 ERA
0.830 WHIP
430.1 IP
597 K
69 BB

 
69 BB
23 HBP
 
So glad the annual "Pedro is God" thread is up again.

 

[Reverend]

is really interesting to me. The local writers always accused him of being a diva and arrogant, but Pedro saying the TV job is tougher than he thought shows his introspectiveness and the ability to acknowledge his own shortcomings while expressing a desire to improve. Says a lot about him.
 
In all ways he is the best.

 
 

So glad the annual "Pedro is God" thread is up again.

 
Then let's do this thing.
 
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/29203432/v20774991
 
 
One of the rare times nobody cared that they were ignoring the game from the booth or that the Yankees weren't going down quietly. (The April 20, 2012 Red Sox love fest.)
 
Edit: Not sure why it's not embedding.

 

[curly2]

2000 AL ERA leaders:
 
1. Martinez (BOS) 1.74
2. Clemens (NYY) 3.70
3. Mussina (BAL) 3.79
4. Sirotka (CHW) 3.79
5. Colon (CLE) 3.88
6. Wells (TOR) 4.11
7. Heredia (OAK) 4.12
8. Lopez (TBD) 4.13
9. Hudson (OAK) 4.14
10. Finley (CLE) 4.17
 
Double his ERA and he still beats all those guys. Amazing.
 
And If you knew Mike Sirotka was in the top 5, you're a bigger fan than me.

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Hey I'll pile on in the Pedro fest. in Pedro's 10 losses in 1999-2000, he gave up the following earned runs each game:
 
2, 4, 3, 3, 1, 3, 3, 2, 3, 1
 
and in his no decisions he gave up the following earned runs each game:
 
7 (followed by a DL stint I believe), then 1, 2, 0, 1, 4, 2, 3, 6
 
Just, wow. 

 

[mt8thsw9th]

It was generally accepted that Duquette would meet whatever demands the Expos made of the Sox' farm system, which led other teams to back off, but while Armas and Pavano were highly-touted prospects, the return on investment was absurd. 

 
Armas wasn't really highly-touted until after he was in the Expos' system. He was a decent prospect with a good pedigree, but he didn't crack BA's top 100 until after the 1998 season. Pavano was a top ten prospect at the time of the deal, but that was really a horrible return for a 25 year old pitcher with 900+ innings in the majors, a 140 ERA+, and a Cy Young under his belt. The Expos were asking for Ricky Ledee (BA's #46) and Mike Lowell (BA's #71), along with Ramiro Mendoza and Jorge Posada. Ultimately the Yankees didn't want to pay that price, so Montreal turned around and traded him for (arguably) a lesser package. The Expos' GM Jim Beattie wasn't exactly a fan of Steinbrenner, so there's a good chance that he was only going to the Yankees if he extracted a lot more from them. Insult to injury was Armas was acquired from the Yankees a short time before in the Mike Stanley deal. Perhaps coincidentally, the Yankees had a new GM not long after the Martinez deal went down. 

 

[ivanvamp]

 
69 BB
23 HBP
 
So glad the annual "Pedro is God" thread is up again.

 
My favorite player of all time, and the 2nd place guy can't even be seen in the rear-view mirror.

 

[Vinho Tinto]

 
Last year when he came to Portland the local paper ran a front page, top of the fold full length picture of Pedro talking to a group of both Sea Dogs and Fisher Cats players out in the field before a game. It seems that no matter the uniform, the players want to hear what he has to say.
 

 
I was at the game he attended. He was there with someone else (Not sure if they were a friend or also worked for the Red Sox). While they spent most of the game talking to each other, Pedro would made it a point of saying hi to all of the scouts he recognized behind home plate. The fans left him alone (I didn't see any ballpark ushers keeping people away from their seating area), but as soon as he got up to leave a mob surrounded him. As always, never lost his cool. Just shook hands and said hi to everyone as he made his way out. Love that guy. 

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Funny, I literally I just read that (gee, I wonder what has us synchronized...). Man, he's in a good place isn't he? So nice amends were made after he left for the Mets.
 
It's kinda funny he flew to Portland basically to play Britton's godfather. Obviously, it's a puff piece, but I would have liked to hear more about what he thinks he can teach mechanically and how, like when he taught RDR his changeup.
 
Nice feel good piece though, definitely. Pedro.

I'm sure he can help out with mechanical issues, but what I'd be more interested in him doing is teaching the guys how to be pitchers from the neck up. These guys have been very successful at every level they have played at, but many times, because they have been so successful, they haven't really learned how to overcome the inevitable adversity and failure that happens the farther up the food chain you go in pro ball. I would think that they would be more apt to listen to someone like Pedro about the psychological/mental side of the game than they would a pitching coach. Yoda indeed.

 

[snowmanny]

2000 AL ERA leaders:
 
1. Martinez (BOS) 1.74
2. Clemens (NYY) 3.70
3. Mussina (BAL) 3.79
4. Sirotka (CHW) 3.79
5. Colon (CLE) 3.88
6. Wells (TOR) 4.11
7. Heredia (OAK) 4.12
8. Lopez (TBD) 4.13
9. Hudson (OAK) 4.14
10. Finley (CLE) 4.17
 
Double his ERA and he still beats all those guys. Amazing.

 
And If you knew Mike Sirotka was in the top 5, you're a bigger fan than me.

His ERA in his no decisions was lower than that second place guy's overall ERA.

His ERA in his losses was lower than that second place guy's overall ERA.

 

[m0ckduck]

 
Armas wasn't really highly-touted until after he was in the Expos' system. He was a decent prospect with a good pedigree, but he didn't crack BA's top 100 until after the 1998 season. Pavano was a top ten prospect at the time of the deal, but that was really a horrible return for a 25 year old pitcher with 900+ innings in the majors, a 140 ERA+, and a Cy Young under his belt. The Expos were asking for Ricky Ledee (BA's #46) and Mike Lowell (BA's #71), along with Ramiro Mendoza and Jorge Posada. Ultimately the Yankees didn't want to pay that price, so Montreal turned around and traded him for (arguably) a lesser package. The Expos' GM Jim Beattie wasn't exactly a fan of Steinbrenner, so there's a good chance that he was only going to the Yankees if he extracted a lot more from them. Insult to injury was Armas was acquired from the Yankees a short time before in the Mike Stanley deal. Perhaps coincidentally, the Yankees had a new GM not long after the Martinez deal went down. 

 
Wasn't there something about a near-deal with Cleveland for Jaret Wright that fell through? Imagine how good those Indians teams would have been. Shudder. 

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 
Wasn't there something about a near-deal with Cleveland for Jaret Wright that fell through? Imagine how good those Indians teams would have been. Shudder. 

 
I think the rumor was Wright and Brian Giles. Had Giles waived his no-trade to the Sox in 2008, it would have been fitting that Pedro tormented the Indians, Giles was traded for a middle reliever and nearly came to Boston for a song, and Jaret Wright was inexplicably given $21 million by the Yankees. Granted the Yankees had a decent run from 1998-2000, they very well could have won through 2001-2004 if they had been able to pull off that deal with Pedro in the rotation over the 4th guy they were throwing out in those series (and of course without Pedro on the Red Sox), assuming they could have constructed a deal without Posada included..

 

[YTF]

No real way to put any sort of measurement on this type of thing but..........The Sox have a very promising group of young pitchers being mentored by one of the best pitchers that most of us will see in our lifetime. Pedro seems genuinely willing, eager and proud to share his knowledge and mental approach to the game with these youngsters. He can't perform for them, but is it just possible that what he's doing now may leave a greater and longer lasting impact on the Red Sox organization than what he did on the mound? Is it possible that his presence and guidance might contribute to multiple World Series Championships? Like I said, no real way to measure this stuff, but Pedro's greatest contribution to The Sox may have started last spring. Here's hoping for a long lasting and fruitful relationship.  

 

[Al Zarilla]

With the expertise of ex pitching coach Farrell, current pitching coach Nieves and now (since last year) Pedro all available to the Sox pitchers, maybe it isn't even fair to the other AL teams? Yeah, to hell with them.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

With the expertise of ex pitching coach Farrell, current pitching coach Nieves and now (since last year) Pedro all available to the Sox pitchers, maybe it isn't even fair to the other AL teams? Yeah, to hell with them.

 
Last year we were first in the AL by a mile in hitting, by OPS+ (117, next closest was 110).
 
In pitching, we were 4th in ERA+ (108), 6th in R/G and ERA, 9th in K/BB, 6th in WHIP and K/9.  And had the 3rd-oldest staff in the league, younger than only Toronto and the MFY.
 
There's still a ways for our team to go on the pitching side of the ball.  2002 this ain't.

 

[smastroyin]

 
 
 
Then let's do this thing.
 
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/29203432/v20774991
 
 
One of the rare times nobody cared that they were ignoring the game from the booth or that the Yankees weren't going down quietly. (The April 20, 2012 Red Sox love fest.)
 
Edit: Not sure why it's not embedding.

 
Every time we talk about that day I will tell the same story about how I saw Pedro coming into the park that day.  He must have been coming with a friend or just trying to keep a low profile because he arrived in a pretty nondescript 5-7 year old Ford Explorer.  When they were pulling up to the entrance on Ipswich, the young security guard stopped the car.  It's possible he was extra help for that day and not even a Sox employee.  I just found it odd and sad and a reminder of the passage of time that Pedro would get stopped on the way into Fenway.  Anyway Pedro leaned out the window and an older comes over and says "um, yeah, that guys ok to come in" and then someone screams It's Pedro and everyone on Ipswich starts running over that way and Pedro hangs out for just a moment of two before going in.  

 

[joyofsox]

 
2000 AL ERA leaders:
 
1. Martinez (BOS) 1.74
2. Clemens (NYY) 3.70
3. Mussina (BAL) 3.79
4. Sirotka (CHW) 3.79
5. Colon (CLE) 3.88
6. Wells (TOR) 4.11
7. Heredia (OAK) 4.12
8. Lopez (TBD) 4.13
9. Hudson (OAK) 4.14
10. Finley (CLE) 4.17
 
Double his ERA and he still beats all those guys. Amazing.
 
And If you knew Mike Sirotka was in the top 5, you're a bigger fan than me.
 

 
Despite finishing 2nd, Fat Billy is actually closer to the 34th place guy in ERA (Scot Schoeneweis, 5.45) than he is to Pedro.
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2000-standard-pitching.shtml

 

[Beomoose]

 

[mwonow]

No real way to put any sort of measurement on this type of thing but..........The Sox have a very promising group of young pitchers being mentored by one of the best pitchers that most of us will see in our lifetime. Pedro seems genuinely willing, eager and proud to share his knowledge and mental approach to the game with these youngsters. He can't perform for them, but is it just possible that what he's doing now may leave a greater and longer lasting impact on the Red Sox organization than what he did on the mound? Is it possible that his presence and guidance might contribute to multiple World Series Championships? Like I said, no real way to measure this stuff, but Pedro's greatest contribution to The Sox may have started last spring. Here's hoping for a long lasting and fruitful relationship.  

 
Nope - but then, as the numbers quoted above show, what he did on the mound was so staggeringly awesome that it sets a benchmark that you really couldn't touch as a coach.
 
But agreed, it's great to see Pedro willing to share, and the young 'uns eager to absorb. "Here's hoping for a long lasting and fruitful relationship" indeed!

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

Looking one more time at those rate stats from 1999-2000, I'm struck by how similar they are to Koji's rate stats from last year. So I think of how ridiculously dominant Koji was in 2013, and then multiply that by:
 
200 innings vs. 70
facing a whole lineup three times each time out, vs. three or four guys once
5.3 runs per game league context vs. 4.3
Defense (the only positions where you'd even think about taking 2000 over 2013 are catcher and LF).
 
So if Koji was Unhittiium last year, what was Pedro in 1999-2000? Untouchium? Unapproachium?

 

[JimBoSox9]

Pedro.

 

[redsahx]

2000 AL ERA leaders:
 
1. Martinez (BOS) 1.74
2. Clemens (NYY) 3.70
3. Mussina (BAL) 3.79
4. Sirotka (CHW) 3.79
5. Colon (CLE) 3.88
6. Wells (TOR) 4.11
7. Heredia (OAK) 4.12
8. Lopez (TBD) 4.13
9. Hudson (OAK) 4.14
10. Finley (CLE) 4.17
 

One of my favorite Pedro stats ever. This is like a guy batting .390 when no one else in the league was hitting over .300.

 

[Number45forever]

My email address, username on everything in the internet and numerous passwords all pay homage to the man.  He is for all times.  Was lucky enough to pull down a bunch of Pedro videos from the server a while back, awesome to back and watch them.  
 
PEDRO.

 

[TFisNEXT]

We all have seen the crazy stats over and over again, but one thing that strikes me when I look back and think about Pedro at his peak was how if he had like a 7 IP 2 ER 9 K game, we'd sort of all say "what was up with Pedro tonight? Didn't have his best stuff?". Performances that we'd be throwing sploogfests for other pitchers were "off nights" for Pedro. He had elevated himself to a completely new standard that nobody else ever did during that time or since then.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Pedro 1999-2000:

 
41-10
1.90 ERA
0.830 WHIP
430.1 IP
597 K
69 BB

12.5K/9
1.4BB/9
8.65K/BB
 
Maddux 1994-1995:
 
35-8 (Strike-shortened year)
1.60 ERA
0.853 WHIP
411.2 IP
337 K
54 BB
7.4 K/9
1.2 BB/9
6.24 K/BB
 
Randy Johnson 2001-2002:
45-11
2.40 ERA
1.020 WHIP
509.2 IP
706 K
142 BB
12.5 K/9
2.5 BB/9
4.97 K/BB
 
Sandy Koufax 1965-1966:
53-17
1.89 ERA
0.919 WHIP
658.2 IP (that's 329 / year)
699 K
148 BB
9.6 K/9
2.0 BB/9
4.72 K/BB
 
Could throw in Lefty Grove 1930-31, Christy Mathewson 1908-09, Walter Johnson 1912-13, Clemens 86-87, 90-91 or 97-98... the point is this: Pedro holds up pretty well against just about any two-year stretch for any starting pitcher, ever.  But he's not leaps and bounds ahead of whoever's chasing him.

 

[joyofsox]

A pet peeve is people saying that Pedro actually compares with Koufax. Considering the eras in which they pitched (ERA+), Pedro leaves Koufax in the dust.
 
Koufax's last five seasons (1962-66) versus Pedro's first six with Boston (1998-2003). Five of Pedro's six seasons here are as good or better than Koufax's best year.
 
Pedro  2000 285
Pedro  1999 245
Pedro  2003 212
Pedro  2002 196
Koufax 1966 190
Pedro  2001 189
Koufax 1964 187
Koufax 1963 161
Pedro  1998 160
Koufax 1965 160
Koufax 1962 143

 

[tims4wins]

We all have seen the crazy stats over and over again, but one thing that strikes me when I look back and think about Pedro at his peak was how if he had like a 7 IP 2 ER 9 K game, we'd sort of all say "what was up with Pedro tonight? Didn't have his best stuff?". Performances that we'd be throwing sploogfests for other pitchers were "off nights" for Pedro. He had elevated himself to a completely new standard that nobody else ever did during that time or since then.

So true. I remember the first Pedro game I attended, some time in 98. He went 7 innings, gave up 3, struck out 8 I think, and I was bummed that he didn't pitch well. Ha.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

So true. I remember the first Pedro game I attended, some time in 98. He went 7 innings, gave up 3, struck out 8 I think, and I was bummed that he didn't pitch well. Ha.

 
First and only time I saw Pedro pitch in person was this game in 1998.  From what I saw of him that night, he wasn't any big thing.

 

[Plympton91]

A pet peeve is people saying that Pedro actually compares with Koufax. Considering the eras in which they pitched (ERA+), Pedro leaves Koufax in the dust.
 
Koufax's last five seasons (1962-66) versus Pedro's first six with Boston (1998-2003). Five of Pedro's six seasons here are as good or better than Koufax's best year.
 
Pedro  2000 285
Pedro  1999 245
Pedro  2003 212
Pedro  2002 196
Koufax 1966 190
Pedro  2001 189
Koufax 1964 187
Koufax 1963 161
Pedro  1998 160
Koufax 1965 160
Koufax 1962 143

 
You have to do something to weight those ERA+ numbers by starts and innings pitched though.  Throwing in a replacement level starter's line for the difference is probably a little too extreme, but you've got to do something make it a fairer comparison when one guy was throwing 50% more innings every year.  Maybe throw in the line of a replacement level starter for 5 innings per start given the difference in starts, and then the line of an average bullpen for the rest of the difference in innings and see how they compare.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
You have to do something to weight those ERA+ numbers by starts and innings pitched though.  Throwing in a replacement level line for the difference is probably a little too extreme, but you've got to do something make it a fairer comparison when one guy was throwing 50% more innings every year.

 
When that guy throwing more innings is facing weak-ass 60s NL lineups and throwing half his games off an 8 foot tall pitcher's mound, getting the benefit of the high strike call AND pitching half his games in the death valley that was 60s Dodger Stadium....I don't think much of an adjustment is necessary.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

 
When that guy throwing more innings is facing weak-ass 60s NL lineups and throwing half his games off an 8 foot tall pitcher's mound, getting the benefit of the high strike call AND pitching half his games in the death valley that was 60s Dodger Stadium....I don't think much of an adjustment is necessary.

 
Especially when the other guy was pitching in one of the most brutal offensive eras of baseball, against DHs, with half of his games in a hitters' park, and still dominated to a higher degree.

 

[Plympton91]

 
When that guy throwing more innings is facing weak-ass 60s NL lineups and throwing half his games off an 8 foot tall pitcher's mound, getting the benefit of the high strike call AND pitching half his games in the death valley that was 60s Dodger Stadium....I don't think much of an adjustment is necessary.

 

 
Especially when the other guy was pitching in one of the most brutal offensive eras of baseball, against DHs, with half of his games in a hitters' park, and still dominated to a higher degree.

 
 
Doesn't ERA-plus already adjust for a lot of that? It uses park factors, and divides by average ERA so accounts for factors affecting overall offensive output like the height of the pitchers mound and size of the strike zone? 
 
Just eyeballing though, it looks like if you add 100 IP at a league average 100 ERA+ to Pedro's 1999 season, you still get an ERA+ in the 200 range, which still beats all of Kaufax's seasons.  Doing an adjustment like that makes it clearer and the argument for Pedro becomes even stronger, I think.

 

[redsahx]

Pedro 1999-2000:

 
41-10
1.90 ERA
0.830 WHIP
430.1 IP
597 K
69 BB

12.5K/9
1.4BB/9
8.65K/BB
 
Maddux 1994-1995:
 
35-8 (Strike-shortened year)
1.60 ERA
0.853 WHIP
411.2 IP
337 K
54 BB
7.4 K/9
1.2 BB/9
6.24 K/BB
 
Randy Johnson 2001-2002:
45-11
2.40 ERA
1.020 WHIP
509.2 IP
706 K
142 BB
12.5 K/9
2.5 BB/9
4.97 K/BB
 
Sandy Koufax 1965-1966:
53-17
1.89 ERA
0.919 WHIP
658.2 IP (that's 329 / year)
699 K
148 BB
9.6 K/9
2.0 BB/9
4.72 K/BB
 
Could throw in Lefty Grove 1930-31, Christy Mathewson 1908-09, Walter Johnson 1912-13, Clemens 86-87, 90-91 or 97-98... the point is this: Pedro holds up pretty well against just about any two-year stretch for any starting pitcher, ever.  But he's not leaps and bounds ahead of whoever's chasing him.

 
Just taking the examples you give: First start out with the often mentioned fact that Pedro's 2-year stretch occured in the American League at the peak of the steroids era when offense was exploding and no other pitcher in the AL during that time even was remotely close to him. Going from there we have
 
Maddux 1994-95:
Pitching in the NL with a K/9 ratio a full 5 strikeouts lower than Pedro's
 
Randy Johnson:
Same time as Pedro's peak, same K/9, but pitching in the NL with an ERA a full half run higher.
 
Koufax:
Could throw Bob Gibson in the late 60's here as well, but this angle has been covered plenty of times before between the mounds and comparing the offense of the NL in the 60s, to the AL in the late 90s and early 2000s. Not to mention that Pedro's K/9 is also 3 strikeouts higher than Koufax during this stretch.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
 
 
Doesn't ERA-plus already adjust for a lot of that? It uses park factors, and divides by average ERA so accounts for factors affecting overall offensive output like the height of the pitchers mound and size of the strike zone? 
 
Just eyeballing though, it looks like if you add 100 IP at a league average 100 ERA+ to Pedro's 1999 season, you still get an ERA+ in the 200 range, which still beats all of Kaufax's seasons.  Doing an adjustment like that makes it clearer and the argument for Pedro becomes even stronger, I think.

Sure it does. But I hear the extra innings argument so often that I felt a rejoinder was necessary.
 
Put Pedro in his prime into that era and he'd likely threaten Gibson's 1.12 ERA mark. And throw 300 innings. It was simply far easier to pitch back then than it was in Pedro's time.
 
And for all the talk that Koufax threw more innings.....his arm was shot by age 32. He never had a less than his prime phase because he retired early. Pedro suffered several major arm injuries, and still came back as one of the best pitchers in baseball after 2001.

 

[Plympton91]

Sure it does. But I hear the extra innings argument so often that I felt a rejoinder was necessary.
 
Put Pedro in his prime into that era and he'd likely threaten Gibson's 1.12 ERA mark. And throw 300 innings. It was simply far easier to pitch back then than it was in Pedro's time.
 
And for all the talk that Koufax threw more innings.....his arm was shot by age 32. He never had a less than his prime phase because he retired early. Pedro suffered several major arm injuries, and still came back as one of the best pitchers in baseball after 2001.

 
I think the reasons the comparisons to Kaufax are so important to some people is that Pedro's win total ended up so far from 300 (which both Johnson and Maddux got to), that people are using the "Peak Year Dominance" to overcome the less impressive "counting stats."    And this wouldn't be a factor in whether Pedro makes the HOF, but might be a factor for some of writers who make the "Is he a first-ballot HOFer" distinctions.

 

[redsahx]

 
And for all the talk that Koufax threw more innings.....his arm was shot by age 32. He never had a less than his prime phase because he retired early. Pedro suffered several major arm injuries, and still came back as one of the best pitchers in baseball after 2001.

 
Pedro's performance in the 99 Postseason where he threw a combined 13 shutout innings (not including the innings he threw in Game 1 of the DS  before the arm injury) against that Indians lineup and the Yankees, with his arm looking like it was going to fall off, and only touching 88-90 on the radar at a time when he was accustomed to throwing 93-97, just adds to the legacy. He was clearly not the same pitcher in 2002-2003 yet sill put up great numbers. It was tough to watch him in game 6 of the 2009 World Series  when he was struggling to break 85. He pitched great in Game 2 of that series, but obviously had used up everything he had left. 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

If any writers use the 219 wins against Pedro somehow, they should have their children taken away.
 
According to B-Ref, Pedro amassed 86.0 WAR over his career, 17th all time.
 
That's more than:
 
Gibson (255 W, 81.9 WAR)
Carlton (329 W, 84.1)
Ryan (324, 83.8)
Roberts (286, 83.1)
Jenkins (284, 82.8)
Glavine (305, 74)

 

[H78]

My first Red Sox game I was lucky enough to sit four rows behind home plate during a Pedro start. Just shit luck - a friend won the seats and asked me to join him. I'll never forget sitting there in amazement at just how much movement his pitches had. It was easy to notice the filth on television, but sitting there with a point of view similar to the batter's, in person, and witnessing the actual depth that his curveball and changeup had truly was awe-inspiring. You'd get lulled into being amazed by the off-speed stuff, and then out of nowhere would be a 95MPH heater. It was like watching someone take full control over the laws of physics.
 
As impressive as Pedro was, I remember walking out of the game with a new found respect for any batter that somehow managed to make contact against him.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

I saw the fight filled 1 hitter in Tampa in person. Hits Williams to start game, endures getting rushed by Williams and 3 other bench clearing incidents to retire 26 straight until the bottom of the 9th. The ability to keep his focus through all that crap was just unreal.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Pedro was the greatest pitcher I ever saw. I must have seen dozens of his home starts and it was an honor and a privilege to see the man work. The most dominant pitcher I have ever seen in person I've seen Ryan Maddux Clemens Johnson etc... Pedro was an amazing pitcher and an artist on the mound and if he can make De La Rosa even half as good as him then that's great.

On another note, I'm sure most of the people on here are probably in their 20's and 30's. I love that former Red Sox greats are coming into camp and helping the prospects. Much welcomed departure from 25 players, 25 cabs. I think John Henry is learning how to be a good owner. Remember that at one point Bob Kraft was considered mettlesome too. I for one look forward to the day that Pedro's number hangs with Yaz and Williams.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

FWIW, my one and only time calling in to the Mike and the Mad Dog show was regarding their comparing Koufax and Pedro. I made what I still consider a nice series of points, including what was covered above by SJH, joyofsox and Adrian's Dome. Mad Dog even called me "Timmy" instead of "Tim," which cracked me up.
 
Anyway, Mike told me he "saw Koufax in person," and since I "sounded very young and probably didn't," he was the authority, and "Pedro couldn't hold a candle to Koufax. Couldn't hold a candle."
 
So, in case you were curious.

 

[TFisNEXT]

Pedro was the greatest pitcher I ever saw. I must have seen dozens of his home starts and it was an honor and a privilege to see the man work. The most dominant pitcher I have ever seen in person I've seen Ryan Maddux Clemens Johnson etc... Pedro was an amazing pitcher and an artist on the mound and if he can make De La Rosa even half as good as him then that's great.

On another note, I'm sure most of the people on here are probably in their 20's and 30's. I love that former Red Sox greats are coming into camp and helping the prospects. Much welcomed departure from 25 players, 25 cabs. I think John Henry is learning how to be a good owner. Remember that at one point Bob Kraft was considered mettlesome too. I for one look forward to the day that Pedro's number hangs with Yaz and Williams.

I always loved this part about him. So many pitchers carefully go over game plans and strategy for attacking hitters before the game. But I remember how Varitek used to say that Pedro went quite a bit by "feel" on the day he pitched. You always got that sense watching him too. He almost seemed to have a natural instinct on the mound for what the hitter was thinking in that at bat too.