Pedro Martinez: the Yoda of Pitching

[terrisus]

I will never pass up an opportunity to sing the praises of Pedro.
 
While I haven't been a Red Sox fan/following Baseball as long as some others (1992 was my first year of that), Pedro is, by far, the most magnificent player I have ever had the pleasure of watching, and I can't imagine someone being able to surpass that. Every start of his was an absolute must-watch, and one never knew what was going to happen. 20+ strikeouts and a no-hitter or perfect game seemed like a real possibility every single game. Even when those didn't happen, watching him working his craft on the mound was a joy like no other. I would often want the Red Sox to just hurry up and finish batting so that Pedro could get out on the mound again.
 
By far my favorite game of his was 1999 ALDS Game 5 versus the Indians. He had gotten injured earlier in the series, weren't expecting to see him again. Had lost to the Indians the year before (and in 1995 as well). Game was an absolute slug-fest for the first few innings, with no idea what was going to happen. And then, out of the bullpen, comes Pedro. The air completely went out of the Indians. Didn't get a hit the entire rest of the way. Kenny Lofton diving into 1st Base and mangling his arm was very symbolic of the hopelessness of the Indians' cause against Pedro. And then the next-to-last out of the game being against the player who came in to replace Lofton, some rookie named Dave Roberts.
 
But, really, that 1999 ALDS illustrated just how magnificent Pedro could be. Even when he was injured, even without his best stuff, in the most crucial game of the year he could still come up big. Him working with our pitchers isn't just the typical "Star former player telling all of the young players to just be awesome like he was." Pedro was more than just his amazing talents. He was, and is, an absolutely brilliant mind, and I am very glad that he is here to impart his wisdom and knowledge on the Red Sox pitchers.
 
I know the mango trees of Manoguayabo may one day be too strong of a call for him to stay away from them for too long, but, I hope that Pedro stays with the Red Sox for many, many years to come.

 

[Frisbetarian]

Pedro 1999-2000:

 
41-10
1.90 ERA
0.830 WHIP
430.1 IP
597 K
69 BB

12.5K/9
1.4BB/9
8.65K/BB
 
Maddux 1994-1995:
 
35-8 (Strike-shortened year)
1.60 ERA
0.853 WHIP
411.2 IP
337 K
54 BB
7.4 K/9
1.2 BB/9
6.24 K/BB
 
Randy Johnson 2001-2002:
45-11
2.40 ERA
1.020 WHIP
509.2 IP
706 K
142 BB
12.5 K/9
2.5 BB/9
4.97 K/BB
 
Sandy Koufax 1965-1966:
53-17
1.89 ERA
0.919 WHIP
658.2 IP (that's 329 / year)
699 K
148 BB
9.6 K/9
2.0 BB/9
4.72 K/BB
 
Could throw in Lefty Grove 1930-31, Christy Mathewson 1908-09, Walter Johnson 1912-13, Clemens 86-87, 90-91 or 97-98... the point is this: Pedro holds up pretty well against just about any two-year stretch for any starting pitcher, ever.  But he's not leaps and bounds ahead of whoever's chasing him.

 
Average runs scored per game:
 
NL 1994 - 1995    4.62
NL 2001 - 2002    4.57
NL 1965 - 1966    4.06
AL 1999 - 2000    5.24
 
One could also site the huge differences in batting average, slugging percentage, etc., but I think runs per game makes the point just fine.

 

[Frisbetarian]

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP), which Fangraphs describes as, "what a player’s ERA should have looked like over a given time period, assuming that performance on balls in play and timing were league average," is calculated as follows: 
 
FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant
 
With the constant bringing the result into ERA form.
 
In 1999, Pedro Martinez had the best single season FIP, 1.39, since Babe Ruth changed the offensive nature of the game in 1920. His is one of only 7 sub 2.00 FIP's posted by a qualified starter in MLB since then (although Matt Harvey came very close last year), and is a full .30 better than the next lowest, Dwight Gooden's 1.69 in 1984.
 
This is even more amazing because FIP is not park or era adjusted! Pedro Martinez, in a year when the average AL team scored 5.18 runs per game, the 2nd highest total since 1900, had by far the best FIP in modern history, a number that will almost certainly never be equaled.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP), which Fangraphs describes as, "what a player’s ERA should have looked like over a given time period, assuming that performance on balls in play and timing were league average," is calculated as follows: 
 
FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant
 
With the constant bringing the result into ERA form.
 
In 1999, Pedro Martinez had the best single season FIP in the history of baseball, 1.39. His is one of only 7 sub 2.00 FIP's posted by a qualified starter in MLB history (although Matt Harvey came very close last year), and is a full .30 better than the next lowest, Dwight Gooden's 1.69 in 1984.
 
This is even more amazing because FIP is not park or era adjusted! Pedro Martinez, in a year when the average AL team scored 5.18 runs per game, the 2nd highest total since 1900, had by far the best FIP in history, a number that will almost certainly never be equaled.

Yet he didn't win the MVP award that season. Just absurd. Both his brilliance on the mound that season and the fact he didn't win MVP.

 

[simplyeric]

Has Pedro ever given a canned answer to anything?  God, I love the guy.

I don't know. I mean, how cliche was his 'I just tip my hat and call the Yankees my daddy' quote?

Oh wait, nevermind.

He was so amazing. I lament that I wasn't a bigger follower of baseball in his prime. I was following, but just not FOLLOWING.

 

[Seels]

Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP), which Fangraphs describes as, "what a player’s ERA should have looked like over a given time period, assuming that performance on balls in play and timing were league average," is calculated as follows: 
 
FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant
 
With the constant bringing the result into ERA form.
 
In 1999, Pedro Martinez had the best single season FIP in the history of baseball, 1.39. His is one of only 7 sub 2.00 FIP's posted by a qualified starter in MLB history (although Matt Harvey came very close last year), and is a full .30 better than the next lowest, Dwight Gooden's 1.69 in 1984.
 
This is even more amazing because FIP is not park or era adjusted! Pedro Martinez, in a year when the average AL team scored 5.18 runs per game, the 2nd highest total since 1900, had by far the best FIP in history, a number that will almost certainly never be equaled.

I don't know how to post this in here, but here's individual seasons sorted by FIP- (FIPs version of ERA+).
 
Number one is Pedro at 30. Pedro is also in third place...and eighth...and tenth....
 
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=180&type=1&season=2013&month=0&season1=1895&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

 

[BoSox Rule]

Pedro's FIP in 1999 is my favorite stat ever. A little lower than Craig Kimbrel's career FIP (about 230 innings) in one of the highest offensive years in baseball history.

 

[Laser Show]

I don't know. I mean, how cliche was his 'I just tip my hat and call the Yankees my daddy' quote?

Oh wait, nevermind.

He was so amazing. I lament that I wasn't a bigger follower of baseball in his prime. I was following, but just not FOLLOWING.

 
I lament to being too young to appreciate him truly. Granted, he was what got me into baseball when I was younger, but by then he was a "shell" of what he was (talking 2003,2004 here).

That and never seeing him pitch in person.

 

[Frisbetarian]

Pedro's FIP in 1999 is my favorite stat ever. A little lower than Craig Kimbrel's career FIP (about 230 innings) in one of the highest offensive years in baseball history.

 
Mike Mussina had the 2nd best FIP in the AL in 1999 at 3.25. Aaron Sele was 3rd at 3.85. No other qualified AL starter was under 4. It was a serious hitters league. 
 
Pedro, once again, had an FIP of 1.39. 

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

They should just develop a Wins Below Pedro stat.

 

[syoo8]

 
Mike Mussina had the 2nd best FIP in the AL in 1999 at 3.25. Aaron Sele was 3rd at 3.85. No other qualified AL starter was under 4. It was a serious hitters league. 
 
Pedro, once again, had an FIP of 1.39. 

 
That just made my jaw drop.  I didn't realize just how dominant Mr. Martinez was that year.

 

[Skiponzo]

Someone upthread mentioned how his starts were must see TV. It's hard to get across just how true this is to those who were not, or are not involved in being a day to day follower of baseball.

The best I have been able to come up with is that my wife, who is not a sports fan of any kind and barely puts up with my baseball obsession, knew what days his starts were on.

 

[Plympton91]

Early returns of his chat with Britton were good today.

 

[Average Reds]

FWIW, my one and only time calling in to the Mike and the Mad Dog show was regarding their comparing Koufax and Pedro. I made what I still consider a nice series of points, including what was covered above by SJH, joyofsox and Adrian's Dome. Mad Dog even called me "Timmy" instead of "Tim," which cracked me up.
 
Anyway, Mike told me he "saw Koufax in person," and since I "sounded very young and probably didn't," he was the authority, and "Pedro couldn't hold a candle to Koufax. Couldn't hold a candle."
 
So, in case you were curious.

 
I hate when idiots like Francesa make this agrument, because it forces you to feel like you are running down Sandy Koufax to prove your point.  Sandy Koufax should never be run down, for any number of reasons.
 
Koufax was a singular talent who pitched his last five years with pain shooting through his elbow while playing for a manager who simply abused him.  He was a courageous, great pitcher.  Just not as great as Pedro.
 
There really shouldn't be a lot of debate about their relative standing.

 

[PedrosRedGlove]

But, really, that 1999 ALDS illustrated just how magnificent Pedro could be. Even when he was injured, even without his best stuff, in the most crucial game of the year he could still come up big. Him working with our pitchers isn't just the typical "Star former player telling all of the young players to just be awesome like he was." Pedro was more than just his amazing talents. He was, and is, an absolutely brilliant mind, and I am very glad that he is here to impart his wisdom and knowledge on the Red Sox pitchers.

 
The best part of this game is how he did it all with pretty much just a curveball. 
 
Some pretty good cliff notes of the game video on this page... example of the hook at 2:03:45, Roberto Alomar strikes out swinging with an awfully awkward looking cut, then hurries away looking confused and embarassed about what just happened.
 
http://fenwaypastoral.com/2013/06/26/screen-grabs-from-mlb-classics-on-youtube-boston-at-cleveland-game-5-1999-alds/

 

[PedrosRedGlove]

 
I hate when idiots like Francesa make this agrument, because it forces you to feel like you are running down Sandy Koufax to prove your point.  Sandy Koufax should never be run down, for any number of reasons.
 
Koufax was a singular talent who pitched his last five years with pain shooting through his elbow while playing for a manager who simply abused him.  He was a courageous, great pitcher.  Just not as great as Pedro.
 
There really shouldn't be a lot of debate about their relative standing.

 
I think Koufax's arthritis has a lot to do with his legacy being a bit of a sacred cow for older fans.  I think this does have some merit.  (I say this as someone who is a huge fan of both men, no other player comes close to my appreciation for these two talents.) 
 
It isn't really fair to Pedro, because no team now would even consider allowing their pitchers to do what Koufax did, but I understand why "old school" types value the guy that threw 330+ innings a year with an elbow he couldn't straighten and probably couldn't even feel most of the time with all the drugs he was ingesting/injecting.  Even at his best, Pedro had difficulty stringing 3 months together without needing to take a start off.  While his numbers might not stack all the way up in comparison, I feel that the relative magnitude of their achievements is comparable.  We were all impressed by Logan Mankins playing a full season through a torn ACL even though he was seriously hindered by it, he's lauded as one of the toughest guys in all of sports.  Koufax won triple crowns and World Series MVPs in terrible pain with an arm that was at what? 90%? 75? 60? Who knows.  Per wiki:
 

The 1965 season brought more obstacles for Koufax. On March 31, the morning after pitching a complete spring training game, Koufax awoke to find that his entire left arm was black and blue from hemorrhaging. Koufax returned to Los Angeles to consult with Kerlan, who advised Koufax that he would be lucky to be able to pitch once a week. Kerlan also told Koufax that he would eventually lose full use of his arm. Koufax agreed not to throw at all between games—a resolution that lasted only one start. To get himself through the games he pitched in, Koufax resorted to Empirin with codeine for the pain, which he took every night and sometimes during the fifth inning. He also took Butazolidin for inflammation, applied capsaicin-based Capsolin ointment (called "atomic balm" by baseball players) before each game, and soaked his arm in a tub of ice afterwards.
 

 

[joyofsox]

Don't for get Pedro's book is supposedly coming out some time this year! (Michael SIlverman is writing it with him.)

 

[Frisbetarian]

Don't for get Pedro's book is supposedly coming out some time this year! (Michael SIlverman is writing it with him.)

 
I talked to Michael recently, and the scheduled release for the book is sometime in the first half of 2015. It can't come soon enough. 

 

[Rough Carrigan]

I remember having tickets for games and counting out the days two weeks in advance trying to figure out if Pedro would be starting that game.  I remember in '99, I think, we'd gotten 20 or 24 tickets for some of the folks from our small company to go to the Sox game.  It was an annual thing.  It was a great social event, seeing other co-workers and their wives, girlfriends or kids.  Anyway, leading up to that one, I saw that it was going to be Pedro starting our game.  Pedro!!  I saw it two weeks out.  I took a look at the schedule and saw who was pitching every day.  Pedro!  It was going to be Pedro!  My co-workers and I were ecstatic.  We drove to the game anticipating that incredible mix of athletic brilliance and artistry, like the genes of an olympic decathlon champion spliced with those from a DaVinci fingernail preserved in amber.  Pedro!  And then we got to the park and found that, manager's decision, Jimy had decided to start Pat Rapp that night.  Crestfallen begins to represent the emotion we felt.  And then Pat Rapp had a Dice K before there was Dice K outing.  I think he managed to go to a full count on hitters who made outs on first pitches.  It was confusing.  Or maybe it just seemed that bad because it wasn't Pedro. 

 

[reggiecleveland]

Yoda's appearance in the prequels makes him unworthy of connection with Pedro.

 

[ChinaCat2]

I remember having tickets for games and counting out the days two weeks in advance trying to figure out if Pedro would be starting that game.  I remember in '99, I think, we'd gotten 20 or 24 tickets for some of the folks from our small company to go to the Sox game.  It was an annual thing.  It was a great social event, seeing other co-workers and their wives, girlfriends or kids.  Anyway, leading up to that one, I saw that it was going to be Pedro starting our game.  Pedro!!  I saw it two weeks out.  I took a look at the schedule and saw who was pitching every day.  Pedro!  It was going to be Pedro!  My co-workers and I were ecstatic.  We drove to the game anticipating that incredible mix of athletic brilliance and artistry, like the genes of an olympic decathlon champion spliced with those from a DaVinci fingernail preserved in amber.  Pedro!  And then we got to the park and found that, manager's decision, Jimy had decided to start Pat Rapp that night.  Crestfallen begins to represent the emotion we felt.  And then Pat Rapp had a Dice K before there was Dice K outing.  I think he managed to go to a full count on hitters who made outs on first pitches.  It was confusing.  Or maybe it just seemed that bad because it wasn't Pedro. 

 
I had a very similar experience.  Had about 12 tickets for friends and coworkers. Found out we'd be seeing Pedro pitch. This would be my first time to see him pitch in person, I was so excited. We're at the park, in our seats, the announcer is reading the lineup..."And pitching for the Boston Red Sox... Bryce Florie!".  We all looked at each other...who? what's going on? Is Pedro sick?  Around the 4th inning we saw activity in the bullpen and realized Pedro was warming. This was, of course, the famous game where Pedro showed up late and Jimy refused to let him start. Florie had  been acquired about 2 days earlier. But Bryce was pulled in the 5th, and Pedro pitched enough of the game to get the win anyways.  It was crazy.

 

[lambolt]

Yeah, I am too young (and too recent to baseball) to know about Koufax, but obviously Johnson and Maddux benefited hugely from facing NL lineups. I think they make an interesting 3 way comparison though because Johnson was pretty much raw power, Maddux was your pinpoint control, and Pedro, to be honest, is kind of a mix of those two since he could blow batters away with power AND pinpoint control. I'm sad that I missed out on Pedro's peak years but I did see him after that, and got to see his last Fenway outing (vs the Yankees), and even though they lost, it was spine tingling to see him in person.

 

[The Boomer]

Koufax and Pedro are in a class by themselves.  While Koufax didn't face the same somewhat performance enhanced offenses as Pedro, he typically pitched in a 4 man rotation that required him to hurl close to 300 innings with win totals as high as 27 per season.  No hitter could feel comfortable standing in the batter's box against either of them although, in their primes, they had pinpoint control.  It's hard to compare players who performed in vastly different seasons but both were incomparably dominant during their careers.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Koufax also kicked the MFYs ass in the 1963 WS with 2 CGs, 3 ER and 23 Ks as the Dodgers swept. He gets extra credit for that. A+ pitcher. The MFYs didn't win another WS until 1977, OMG!

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

This was, of course, the famous game where Pedro showed up late and Jimy refused to let him start. Florie had  been acquired about 2 days earlier. But Bryce was pulled in the 5th, and Pedro pitched enough of the game to get the win anyways.  It was crazy.
 

 
This was the turning point in my relationship with Jimy Williams where I went from annoyed with the man to down-right despising him. I had a theory that as a ballplayer Williams couldn't hit therefore he tended to sympathize with players who couldn't hit either (Darren Lewis, Damon Buford, Mark Lemke). In this case, Williams sympathized with the rest of the American League against Pedro and did what he could to make sure that the odds were evened.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Pedro was much more on his own. Koufax was the best, but others were close. He lead the league in ERA from 1962-66 but only in 64 and 66 did he lead in ERA+ at 186 and 190. .His two best years at ERA He had a great pitchers park. Park factors of 90, 93, 93, 91, 91. For comparison Safeco before the fences were brought in was usually around 94.
 
Pedro lead the league in ERA+ 5 times. All five were ERA+202 or better topping out at +291 in 2000. Pedro stood above his fellow pitchers at his peak far more than Koufax. In fact he basically stood on them.
 
Koufax's best season in the all time ERA+ (adjusted for era and park) is list 58th. Pedro is at 2, 9,17,26,34, and a few other places. 
 
Now Koufax pitched more innings and that is not nothing. His WAR numbers are better than Pedro's but pitcher WAr generally rises as you back in time due to inning loads. 
 
Perhaps there were more great pitchers in Koufax era. Probably true. More kids played baseball, baseball got the lion's share of great athletes, fewer teams.
 
But Pedro's best years need us to to switch sports to Gretzky, or Wilt to see similar statistical dominance over peers.  

 

[CoRP]

I don't know how to post this in here, but here's individual seasons sorted by FIP- (FIPs version of ERA+).
 
Number one is Pedro at 30. Pedro is also in third place...and eighth...and tenth....
 
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=180&type=1&season=2013&month=0&season1=1895&ind=1&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,a

check out Bronson Arroyo sporting the second worst season ever in FIP- in 2011.

 

[Homar]

Another difference between the circumstances that Koufax and Pedro faced respectively, is the height of the mound.  Koufax retired before pitching mound height was universalized and lowered.  I don't know how high the mound was in Dodger Stadium in the mid-1960s but Koufax must have been a terror throwing downhill from on high.  

 

[msilverman]

Really not blowing smoke, but know that I kept hardcore, smart fans like SoSHers in mind as readers while writing. I think you all, plus a wider audience, should enjoy what comes out. Pedro was, and still is, really into the project. He would always tell us writers, "I've got a memory like an elephant.'' The elephant lives. Will be told in first person, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt's the publisher, and like Frisbetarian said, it's due to come out sometime in the first half of next year.  

 

[Reverend]

Really not blowing smoke, but know that I kept hardcore, smart fans like SoSHers in mind as readers while writing. I think you all, plus a wider audience, should enjoy what comes out. Pedro was, and still is, really into the project. He would always tell us writers, "I've got a memory like an elephant.'' The elephant lives. Will be told in first person, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt's the publisher, and like Frisbetarian said, it's due to come out sometime in the first half of next year.  

 
You should consider doing a chat just about that. Like, not even about Pedro and his history in baseball per se, but literally just what it's like to hangout with Pedro all day and talk baseball with him. Totally a thread worthy topic.

 

[msilverman]

Would be happy to.

 

[joyofsox]

Really not blowing smoke, but know that I kept hardcore, smart fans like SoSHers in mind as readers while writing. I think you all, plus a wider audience, should enjoy what comes out. Pedro was, and still is, really into the project. He would always tell us writers, "I've got a memory like an elephant.'' The elephant lives. Will be told in first person, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt's the publisher, and like Frisbetarian said, it's due to come out sometime in the first half of next year.  

 
GREAT GREAT GREAT news!!!

 

[BusRaker]

But Pedro's best years need us to to switch sports to Gretzky, or Wilt to see similar statistical dominance over peers.  

 
This has him way too low at #29
 
Although I think Edwin Moses should come way higher on the list ... can you imagine winning EVERY race for 10 years against the entire world ?!?!?
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/442846-michael-jordan-or-wayne-gretzky-the-30-most-dominant-athletes-of-all-time/page/3

 

[BoSox Rule]

"I know what you're thinking, Pedro Martinez as one of the 30 most dominant athletes of all time? What a joke.

Just drop your pitchfork for a second and listen."

Zero credibility. Not only with that disclaimer but to put him so low at 29. Behind a female squash player, a couple bike riders and a horse. No debate as to whether or not Koufax is the best ever.

 

[RoyHobbs]

I've already told a couple of friends about the book; thanks to Mike Silverman for the heads up.
 
I remember every second of the 1999 NYY K-o-thon. Got home from the beat at the Trib, ate a typically low-quality "early years of marriage in our apartment" kind of supper, and sat riveted and elated on our p.o.s. couch.
 
I remember wanting to hear the calls on radio, which I always find more dramatic, during the TB game after Ice Williams got nailed. I sat in my parked car in the garage for the remainder of the game.
 
Pedro made us do abnormal things. For me, watching TV outside of home team sporting events and the occasional re-run of KoTH is pretty abnormal. Young SOSHers, believe all the hype, because it was beautifully real.

 

[RG33]

I'll never forget a game in 2000 that I brought 3 clients who were in town visiting from San Diego to. They were huge baseball fans, had never been to Fenway before, and insisted on getting to the park for batting practice. We had company seats, so we were like 5 rows behind the Sox on-deck circle, and Pedro just happened to be pitching that nite. In the first inning, Pedro strikes the first two batters out with ease, and as he got strike two on the 3rd batter of the inning, the whole place stood up and started cheering (which was fairly normal for any Sox fan to see, but they were baffled by it happening in the 1st inning). After he struck out the side, the place went nuts, and I'll never forget the expressions on these guys faces. I remember the lead guy (who was a Padres season ticket holder) exclaiming "Its the first fucking inning! The first fucking inning there is a standing ovation for a strikeout! We had 5 standing ovations all year!". It made me realize how lucky we were.

 

[reggiecleveland]

 
This has him way too low at #29
 
Although I think Edwin Moses should come way higher on the list ... can you imagine winning EVERY race for 10 years against the entire world ?!?!?
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/442846-michael-jordan-or-wayne-gretzky-the-30-most-dominant-athletes-of-all-time/page/3

 
But in all honesty 400m hurdles is a niche event, even more so then as fewer countries funded track programs. There were probably more elite athletes fighting for a spot on any MLB roster in 1999 than running 400m hurdles full time in Edwin's era. 

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Yoda's appearance in the prequels makes him unworthy of connection with Pedro.

 
His appearance in the what?
 
I'm pretty sure that never happened.

 

[Papi's fan]

Koufax and Pedro were so different that I don't really attempt to compare them directly.  I was a kid when Koufax was at the height of his powers and followed every start.  Got to see him play golf at the Danny Sullivan Tournament in Aspen during the 90s with Archie Manning.  When they came off the tee  no one was following them so I walked up to Sandy and told him that I was crushed when he retired.  He got a kick out of it.  Then I said hi to Archie and let them mosey on down the fairway.  A little later I found Payne Stewart on the par 5 15th landing 6 irons like pillows dropped from parachutes about 188 yards out all around the flag at the encouragement of the gallery.  What a showman.

 

[Rasputin]

 
This has him way too low at #29
 
Although I think Edwin Moses should come way higher on the list ... can you imagine winning EVERY race for 10 years against the entire world ?!?!?
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/442846-michael-jordan-or-wayne-gretzky-the-30-most-dominant-athletes-of-all-time/page/3

 
Wait, what? There are people who think he isn't one of the most dominant athletes ever? What the hell?

 

[Big Papa Smurph]

Just came across this SABR bio project on Pedro which was written a few months ago http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/a9ba2c91
 
I came across it reading this Joe Posnanski article that covers similar ground but also gets into how dominant Pedro was http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/12/if-the-devil-ever-gives-me-one-pitcher-to-play-for-my-soul/
 
It's a lot of what we already know, but still worth reading.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I loved this detail in the Poz piece:
 

 
The day he showed us the house there was a woman living there, and she is still there … she is a family friend and lives there for free. There is only one thing Tony Pena asks. She must not change things. This house must remain as it was because this house is what connects Tony Pena to a past he must remember. He was an All-Star catcher. He was a baseball manager. He has long been a bench coach for the New York Yankees. He is a hero to his people. He cannot accomplish all that he must do if he does not remember.
 
But even in this, the woman does not have to keep everything exactly the same. It is her home now.
 
“Right there,” Pena said as he pointed at a photo on the wall, “there used to be a picture of Jesus.”
 
The picture is now of Pedro Martinez.

 

[teddywingman]

Holy shit that's hilarious.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Wait, so what changed about the photo?

 

[StupendousMan]

<curmudgeon>
From the Poznanski column in question:
 

 
By square 64, the number is: 9,223,372,036,854,780,000 — which is not QUITE as many stars there are estimated to be in the galaxy, but is a mere five zeroes away.

 
The actual number, 2^63, is 9,223,372,036,854,775,808.  Why did he round off the final 5 digits?
 
Moreover the number stars estimated to be in our Milky Way Galaxy is of order 200 billion, or 200,000,000,000.  So the number of grains of wheat on the final square is larger than the number of stars in the Milky Way by a factor of roughly 50 million. 
 
Seems like some lazy research to me.
</curmudgeon>

 

[chrisfont9]

 
I think Koufax's arthritis has a lot to do with his legacy being a bit of a sacred cow for older fans.  I think this does have some merit.  (I say this as someone who is a huge fan of both men, no other player comes close to my appreciation for these two talents.) 
 
It isn't really fair to Pedro, because no team now would even consider allowing their pitchers to do what Koufax did, but I understand why "old school" types value the guy that threw 330+ innings a year with an elbow he couldn't straighten and probably couldn't even feel most of the time with all the drugs he was ingesting/injecting.  Even at his best, Pedro had difficulty stringing 3 months together without needing to take a start off.  While his numbers might not stack all the way up in comparison, I feel that the relative magnitude of their achievements is comparable.  We were all impressed by Logan Mankins playing a full season through a torn ACL even though he was seriously hindered by it, he's lauded as one of the toughest guys in all of sports.  Koufax won triple crowns and World Series MVPs in terrible pain with an arm that was at what? 90%? 75? 60? Who knows.  Per wiki:
 

That's horrifying and a testament to Koufax's courage (or perhaps some other term for it), but Francesa was saying Pedro wasn't as good, right? Not that Pedro didn't overcome as much. I was a newborn in the Koufax era, so I don't remember it, but I'd like to hear some of these get-off-my-lawn types explain exactly why Koufax was more effective on the mound than Pedro. Better control? Koufax had more bb/9. Harder to hit? Koufax's 10.2 k/9 in 1965 and his 10.5 k/9 career best are both inferior to every season of Pedro's from 1999-2002. Pedro, mind you, faced DHs in an extreme hitters' era, not incompetent-hitting pitchers in a weak hitting era. Are we then supposed to believe that Koufax "just looked better"? Because I saw quite a lot of those Pedro starts, and they looked pretty fucking great.
 
Edit: to be clear, I am not running down Koufax one bit. He's a legend, statistically and by all contemporary accounts. I just haven't heard a "koufax was better" discussion that isn't lazy bullshit like Francesa's. Not that I've scoured the Earth, but if there's an argument, I'm all ears.

 

[O Captain! My Captain!]

Wait, so what changed about the photo?

 
Jesus didn't have as good a changeup.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Edit: to be clear, I am not running down Koufax one bit. He's a legend, statistically and by all contemporary accounts. I just haven't heard a "koufax was better" discussion that isn't lazy bullshit like Francesa's. Not that I've scoured the Earth, but if there's an argument, I'm all ears.

 
It starts from an innings argument, and relies on counting stats.  If you top up the difference in a prime Pedro season with enough innings to make it a prime Koufax season, and do so with league-average innings, Pedro suffers in the comparison.  Of course, such a comparison is fairly oversimplified, because the difference in innings owes more to the era, usage patterns and the competition than it does to a difference in durability.  But it's not a stupid position to take.
 
A few years ago, there was a great set of "Greatest Of All Time (GOAT)" threads where SoSH debated the various merits of every legend from every position, and slowly landed on its rotation of 5 GOAT starting pitchers.  I believe Pedro was #2 behind Walter Johnson (which I think is frankly a credit to this site, voting a pitcher from nearly 100 years ago as first, despite everyone's biases and huge mancrushes on Mr. Martinez).  Not sure Koufax made the top-5 cut.

 

[SumnerH]

 
It starts from an innings argument, and relies on counting stats.  If you top up the difference in a prime Pedro season with enough innings to make it a prime Koufax season, and do so with league-average innings, Pedro suffers in the comparison.  Of course, such a comparison is fairly oversimplified, because the difference in innings owes more to the era, usage patterns and the competition than it does to a difference in durability.  But it's not a stupid position to take.

 
I've seen some arguments that though pitchers are throwing fewer innings now than in the 1960s, they're actually throwing about the same number of pitches (or more).  Batters are working much longer PAs than they used to.
 
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=383 discusses this in general, and Koufax in particular to some extent:
 
 
 

But from late 1947 until mid-1964, Allan Roth, the first full-time statistician in the employ of any team, meticulously kept pitch-by-pitch information on every game the Dodgers played for Branch Rickey.
...
For the 2,690 starts we have on file, Dodger starters threw a total of 253,513 pitches, an average of 94.2 pitches per start. As our modern standard, we took the 1998 NL data, to keep the comparison between non-DH leagues (save a smattering of interleague games in AL parks). In the 2,588 starts made by NL pitchers last year, they threw a total of 247,197 pitches, an average of 95.5 pitches per start
...
But--and it's a big but--the old-time hurlers amassed an average of 21.6 PAPs per start, while today's pitchers averaged just 8.0. That's an enormous difference; despite throwing fewer pitches overall, yesterday's pitchers averaged 169% more PAPs than today's pitchers do.

 
The whole article is worth a read.
 
And, of course, pitches per start isn't the same as pitches per season.

 

[cannonball 1729]

<curmudgeon>
From the Poznanski column in question:
 
 
The actual number, 2^63, is 9,223,372,036,854,775,808.  Why did he round off the final 5 digits?
 

 
Probably because his calculator ran out of digits.  Many calculators only carry 14 digits.