Price is right
- Thread starter In my lifetime
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If Price doesn't let up another run this season, I doubt he would opt out for financial reasons. And if he did, I am sure the RS would not be devastated. His contract calIs for 31 MM next year and 32 MM in 2020 - 2022. So that ends up being 32 MM for a 36 year old pitcher who has had his share of injuries in the last couple of years. I find it hard to believe that Price would be getting a contract of 4 years/127 MM if he were a free agent this year, regardless of how he finishes the season. Yes, he has been outstanding after a slow start and has certainly earned his contract this year. Although, I hope he plays up to his contract in the next 4 years, the odds are stacked against that happening.
If he does opt out, I would think it would be due to him be willing to sacrifice some salary (or length of deal), because he wants a lifestyle change and prefers to be out of the Boston fishbowl.
In what sense was Miller asking Price to do his job for him? I don't get that. "You don't do my job, so I won't do yours" may be reasonable in the abstract, but in that context it seems like a non sequitur. Talking about the adjustments is not doing Miller's job for him, though it's certainly making it easier for Miller to do his job. Maybe that's what he meant? "You don't help me do my job, so I won't help you do yours?" That at least makes sense.
EDIT: Regardless, he's coming up huge when the Sox really needed him to, and it's hard to argue with that.
is it a matter of him taking a really long time coming to terms with his diminished fastball and finally adjusting?
Has to be location location location. He hit 94.9 max in his fastball and 94 or over 6 or 7 times. Price today actually threw a bit harder than Corey Kluber on Monday night (Brooks Baseball). Price is right.
I read a quote this week where he said it was about using all of his pitches and both sides of the plate and that he’d become too one-dimensional.
Continuing a theme I've posted about elsewhere, Price pitched 17 of his first 18 games to Vaz. It's interesting that when he was scuffling in late April and May his best start and maybe one of his best all year was the one game Sandy caught. If you include that game, here are his Sandy games:
9.0 innings, 2 ER, sox W.
6.2 innings, 3 ER, sox W.
6.1 innings, 0 ER, sox W.
8.0 innings, 1 ER, sox W.
6.0 innings, 2 ER, sox W.
6.0 innings, 0 ER, sox W.
7.0 innings, 2 ER sox W.
8.0 innings, 0 ER, sox W.
Totals are 49 Ks, 7 BBs, 37 hits, 4 HRs, 49 IP, 10 ER, .898 WHIP, 1.84 ERA.
K/9 is 9, BB/9 is .777, and HR/9 is .444. IP/start is 7.0.
For comparison when pitching to Vaz: K/9 is 9.844, BB/9 is 3.34, HR/9 is 1.67, ERA 4.69, WHIP 1.343. Innings per start is 5.43.
Correlation does not mean causation, obviously. It could all just be that Sandy happened to be the guy left after Vaz's injury when Price put it together. But, at this point, I can't imagine changing catchers on him, at least for so long as this streak continues.
9.0 innings, 2 ER, sox W.
6.2 innings, 3 ER, sox W.
6.1 innings, 0 ER, sox W.
8.0 innings, 1 ER, sox W.
6.0 innings, 2 ER, sox W.
6.0 innings, 0 ER, sox W.
7.0 innings, 2 ER sox W.
8.0 innings, 0 ER, sox W.
Totals are 49 Ks, 7 BBs, 37 hits, 4 HRs, 49 IP, 10 ER, .898 WHIP, 1.84 ERA.
K/9 is 9, BB/9 is .777, and HR/9 is .444. IP/start is 7.0.
For comparison when pitching to Vaz: K/9 is 9.844, BB/9 is 3.34, HR/9 is 1.67, ERA 4.69, WHIP 1.343. Innings per start is 5.43.
Correlation does not mean causation, obviously. It could all just be that Sandy happened to be the guy left after Vaz's injury when Price put it together. But, at this point, I can't imagine changing catchers on him, at least for so long as this streak continues.
That makes sense, but his control has also been excellent, both overall, and within the strike zone.
I pray he and his calcified elbow ligament keep pitching this well right through the playoffs and then he opts out of the 4 years $124 million left on his contract. He’ll be lucky to get 80% of that on the market and the Red Sox can go into next season with Sale, Porcello, Rodriguez, Wright, and Johnson plus $31 million to spread around on Betts and Sale.
Hanley's $$ comes off after this year, Panda's after next. It won't be easy but I wouldn't assume Price staying on means they can't sign both Sale and Betts.
No, you don’t understand, there’s only a choice between Price and Sale/Betts.
Shit! Now the rest of the league knows his adjustments. Damn you Johnny Miller for opening up this can of worms!
Yeah, that four game sweep of the divisional rivals on pace to win over 100 wasn't shit.
People like you will NEVER be satisfied. If it's not one thing it's another.
I didn’t say the Yankees sweep wasn’t good(it was great)and I never said I wasn’t satisfied with this team. I love everything about this team. You make it seem like I’m crapping on them by saying what I said. The season is full of tests and like they’ve been doing all year they passed another one with flying colors.
Many of those who cover Boston sports seem to take joy in berating Price, his contract, his video game habits, his interactions with the media, etc. all of which is much easier when he underperforms on the field.
His performance today (and all of his games post All Star Break) have taken the wind out of those sails. I’m undecided about whether that makes the jobs of those who cover Boston sports easier but it certainly makes it less enjoyable for the many media members who like to kick dirt on him.
I’d rather not resign Porcello either. Good luck paying his calcified ligament $31 million. Hope that works out for them.
Not just Sale or Betts, but also JDM and Bogaerts. If Price opts out the Red Sox would be thrilled.
I’m curious about Price’s mouthpiece / mouthguard / chew toy / whatever. Is it for protection or to help him concentrate or what? Do other pitchers (or position players) use one? etc. Thanks.
As great as JDM is, I'm not convinced that his market going into his age 32/33 season is going to be significantly different than it was going into his 30/31 season. He'll be even more entrenched at DH.
I agree it was not sorely needed, but then again, how many chances a season do you get to make sure that you never have a losing streak of more than three games?
As I have frequently tried to point out in the past, there is actually zero supporting evidence since Henry took over that the Sox ever let what they are paying somebody else come into their own "what this guy is worth to us" equation if/when they target in on somebody of interest.
Especially in a unique case like Betts, and who might be ticking off every desirable box going into any potential mega contract. If/when they let a guy like that walk...it'll be for one of two fairly straight forward reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Price's contract or even any surrounding LT concern for that matter.
So your argument is that the Red Sox have no meaningful budget constraints at all? They would spend &300 million per season as long as they were getting good deals on all those players?
This off-season kinda puts a dent in that philosophy, given how many good major leaguers signed way below market contracts in March.
No, my argument is that any surrounding budget crunch concern there doesn't actually exist outside message board speculation, and that this Sox FO has a flawless track record of spending whatever we need to if/when they want a guy at a price tag they feel comfortable with in itself.
If anything this past off-season and our current position as MLB's new albatross spender just further confirmed that too imo. I mean who of those below market contracts out there this winter do think the Sox passed on strictly because of a money concern? Heck, I myself spent the winter complaining that the Sox were putting themselves in a rough spot in relationship to a 2nd tier LT hit by paying over market on Mitch Moreland. Of all things they aren't going to let a potential overlapping LT hit or 2 keep them from securing a city/franchise icon in the making with Betts.
Maybe there is an argument to be made that the Sox would be less willing to make what essentially amounts to be a typically bad long term gamble on a post-30yo Sale by already having a similar bad bet in house, but I still just don't see that boiling down to a not having enough money to hand out concern.
This is getting pretty far afield, so I’ll just say that I agree with you that it seems the 2nd tier luxury tax hit seems like a threshold they wouldn’t want to go over unless they really had to. Starting out at $90 million for 3 players while currently having one of the worst ranked farm systems in the game doesn’t seem like a recipe for doing that and winning.
But the players were talking about are all under 30, some significantly so. They’ll spend while they’re good and they have no need to come anywhere close to $300M.
How David Price became 'the pitcher Boston signed'
Price and LeVangie speak with Evan Drellich about what finally ticked with Price
more at the link
Price and LeVangie speak with Evan Drellich about what finally ticked with Price
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/how-david-price-became-pitcher-boston-signed
more at the link
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That 5 game stretch in late April/May can be explained by Carpal Tunnel and outside of that, Price has been lights out all year. He's had 2 bad starts since May 4th, on back to back games at the beginning of July, both games Vaz caught. and the bad game against KC was 4.2ip, 6h, 4er, 1bb/9k. More unlucky than bad. NYY lit him up though.
Since 5/4
18 games: 2.96 era, 112.1 ip, 117k/25bb, 1.13 WHIP
17 games: 2.39 era, 109.0 ip, 114k/25bb, 1.08 WHIP if you remove the Yankee start.
If you remove the 5 CTS starts, his season line:
20 games: 2.64 era, 126.1 ip, 127k/28bb, 1.08 WHIP
All cherry picking aside, he's been trending in the right direction since mid May and has been pitching close to Ace level. Oddly enough, his ERA+ this year is 124 and his career ERA+ is 124.
All things equal, I would too. If the question was Price at 3/90 or Porcello at 3/60, I'd have to think about it. Personally, I think a guy like Nathan Eovaldi could replicate Porcello's value if his health were a given. Porcello strikes me as the definition of league average starter, though he does get bumped up a bit due to durability. A lot of his success depends on the BAbip gods so you'll have years like 2015 and 2016 but when you balance it all out, you have a guy with a Career ERA+ of 101.
The two Cleveland wins seem a bit more important. The Yankees series was great and all, but no Judge, no Sanchez, and their pitching is falling apart. The last four days were against a strong, feisty Cleveland team who brought almost everything they had (minus Bauer). To me this is more of a true test.
There have been a number of teams with gaudy regular season records who fold at the first sign of trouble in the postseason because they don't know how to react to getting "punched in the mouth." I think this Cleveland series provides the team something to fall back on in case they fall behind in a postseason series and I think there will be another stretch before the season ends just like it. At Atlanta/home Houston just after Labor Day and ending the year with 9 of 12 against Cleveland and NYY with 6 of the 9 against Cle/NYY on the road could provide those tests.
This is ridiculous.
This team has trucked through tons of injuries and deficits and never called it quits. They haven't seen a "punch in the mouth" because they've literally done all the punching. How many times this year have they been down 3, 4, or 5 runs and come storming back?
As I said, people like you will never be satisfied. They'll be at or over 100 wins in the first two weeks of Sept, they've been going without their 1 and 3 starters, and you'll still be looking for "the real test."
Exactly. And I'll do you a step furthur:
We've seen this team get punched in the mouth. A lot. Many times.
Just because you're still standing at the end of the round and the other guy ain't doesn't mean you didn't get punched in the head. It just means you handled it.
I love this team.
Betts, X, Devers, Vazquez, Sale, and EdRod, all significant starting parts, have missed extended periods of time. Price wasn't right for a while either.
Role players Smith, Wright, Swihart, Kinsler, and Moreland have all been (or are) out.
Pedroia has been dead all season.
Yeah, no adversity at all dealt with there.
I don't know if the battle tested theory holds any water (I don't think it matters who you play during the home stretch). Look at the Patriots, who almost always play divisional rivals in the last two regular season games. They are generally weak teams, and the Pats played two of them in the last two games leading to all five super bowl victories. Just stay healthy and win, baby.
I can't really speak for Red October, but I do think he identified the primary concern with the Sox: that this is all for naught if they can't play their best baseball against the best teams. Before this month they were 4-5 vs the Yankees, 2-4 vs the As and 2-2 vs Houston. The split with Houston on the road was a good sign (IMO) but the record vs the Yankees and As was not encouraging.
Then they crushed the Yankees. I still consider them a diminished team and not as dangerous as Cleveland or Houston, for the time being. And I don't think they can straighten out their rotation in time this year. Battling back to a split with Cleveland was about as important to this "pecking order" discussion as a couple regular season games can be, even if they didn't really matter to any standings. I'm confident the players care a bit more about these matchups. And by the time those September showdowns roll around, the Sox will likely be resting guys.
If Red October was arguing that we knew nothing before this series, then no, I'm with you and a few others here in having seen lots of other signs of improved resiliency in this year's team. Not sure he was saying that, honestly.
