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Red Sox to lead effort to change name of Yawkey Way

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by Spelunker, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I think Jethroe, even though he was a pioneer in Boston, would be somewhat down the list because he's not well known and he played his home games at Braves Field, not Fenway. He also unfortunately had most of his best years behind him when he got the call, coming up at age 33 and playing only 3 years for the Braves, then just 2 games with the Pirates in his fourth and final year.

    I wonder if the street name change might be opened up to the public.
     
  2. Spacemans Bong

    Spacemans Bong chapeau rose SoSH Member

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    But that's why renaming it after him is a good idea. If you polled people as to who was the first black MLB player in Boston, 98% of the few who would even be able to give an answer would say Pumpsie Green. Rename the street after Sam Jethroe and now people are going to find out who he is.
     
  3. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    You make a good point. I know nothing about street naming down through the centuries. How often is a street given the name of a relatively unknown person? Neither here nor there, I sold a Sam Jethroe rookie card recently. Maybe I should have held onto it.
     
  4. chrisfont9

    chrisfont9 Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not marrying the guy, I'm just commenting on his research. So no, you probably can't.
     
  5. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Streetie McStreet-Face?
     
  6. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This is such sound reasoning I found it to be a little bit jarring.

    I really like this idea now.
     
  7. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I mean, if we're not going with Streetie McStreer-Face, I mean.
     
  8. Kid T

    Kid T Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Holy false equivalencies! Just because someone has done something despicable doesn't mean that anything they have to say lacks merit (there would be almost no one left to cite). This is a far cry from honoring someone by naming a street after them - which should consider the totality of their past actions and achievements.
     
  9. Spacemans Bong

    Spacemans Bong chapeau rose SoSH Member

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    You get a fair number of squares named after community people who aren't well known outside the community, so you could say it isn't that rare.

    Nerd time: Yawkey isn't the only owner of an all-white MLB team with a street named after him in Boston. The old streetcar loop for Braves Field is still called Gaffney Street, after the owner who built Braves Field, James Gaffney.
     
  10. richgedman'sghost

    richgedman'sghost Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Was Gaffney a racist? Maybe we should change the name of that street too. I do not know much about him.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using SoSH mobile app
     
  11. Jim Ed Rice in HOF

    Jim Ed Rice in HOF Red-headed Skrub child Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    2,300
    Maybe there are stories out there about him but just because it was an all white team doesn't mean he was a racist. He owned the team well before Jackie Robinson came along and the Braves were the fifth team to break the color barrier with the above mentioned Sam Jethroe (9 years before the Sox) so I think we can pump the brakes on that one for a while.
     
  12. Mannygirl

    Mannygirl lurker

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    Everyone is so offended by the Yawkey name, yet they still attend games and watch the games. It was named Yawkey Way in 1977. 40 years later and its suddenly offensive??? If John Henry was so offended by it, why didn't he rename it the day he bought it??? Political correctness. So liberals can sleep better. Sorry if I offended liberals
     
  13. charlieoscar

    charlieoscar lurker

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    While this is slightly off the topic of Yawkey Way...along with the call to remove statues, etc., of racist individuals there have been people saying that Washington and Jefferson, among others, were slave owners so their statues should be included. What has not been said, that I have seen, is that many of these people were also sexists. Women did not get the vote until 1920. Is discrimination against race worse than discrimination against religion or discrimination against sex? Who draws the line? Can the good an individual does during his life outweigh the discrimination he also practiced?

    Just curious.
     
  14. The Allented Mr Ripley

    The Allented Mr Ripley holden Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It's a city street, Henry has no say over the matter.
     
  15. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    Do you think that Mannygirl is truly sorry if she offended liberals with her post?
     
  16. The Allented Mr Ripley

    The Allented Mr Ripley holden Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I don't know. She's coy, that one.
     
  17. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    I think that Mannygirl has the perfect amount of political correctness. So I guess we'll never know!
     
  18. Red(s)HawksFan

    Red(s)HawksFan Member SoSH Member

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    Well, she spelled it right, so there's a fair chance. I find that when one wants to go the sorrynotsorry route, they spell it "libruls".
     
  19. VTSox

    VTSox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    The billionaire owner of the biggest tourist draw in New England has no say about the name of the street on which it's located?
     
  20. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Henry owns Cape Cod and the Islands?
     
  21. glasspusher

    glasspusher Member SoSH Member

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    Possibly the Kennedy complex out on the islands. This explains...so much.
     
  22. glasspusher

    glasspusher Member SoSH Member

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    That would be the most awesome street name ever.
     
  23. wnyghost

    wnyghost lurker

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  24. moondog80

    moondog80 heart is two sizes two small SoSH Member

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  25. Pandemonium67

    Pandemonium67 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    What the hell does the banner even mean? I can't tell if it's anti-black, anti-racism or anti-baseball. Is it saying that racism is good?
     
  26. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one.
     
  27. Tyrone Biggums

    Tyrone Biggums nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion SoSH Member

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    It means baseball is as racist as the country. Drelich did an interview with the protesters. Antifa also has taken credit for it. I like the signs meaning and I think we need to have more awareness with the disparity on the field. Also that this city still has a lot of racism. Not the only city in America obviously but there's a lot of work still needed and the more eyeballs on this the better.

    I still think the street should be named after a strong African American with Boston ties.
     
  28. uncannymanny

    uncannymanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Crispus Attucks would be a good choice.
     
  29. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Whoops, I made a thread, didn't see this. Mods, can we move these posts therel this is a worthy topic by itself IMHO. (Or just kill my thread if this is part of the Yawkey thing completely. I would disagree but accept reasonable minds may differ)
     
  30. DukeSox

    DukeSox Rick Derris SoSH Member

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    That's actually not at all what it means.
     
  31. Tyrone Biggums

    Tyrone Biggums nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion SoSH Member

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    “We want to remind everyone that just as baseball is fundamental to American culture and history, so too is racism,” the group said in a written statement. “White people need to wake up to this reality before white supremacy can truly be dismantled. We urge anyone who is interested in learning more or taking action to contact their local racial justice organization.”

    http://www.csnne.com/boston-red-sox...merican-banner-explains-anti-racist-statement
     
  32. Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

    Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat has big, douchey shoulders Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    So that statement doesn't say anything about baseball being racist.
     
  33. Tyrone Biggums

    Tyrone Biggums nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion SoSH Member

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    Racism is fundamental to the country as is baseball. I guess it's all in how you read and interpret it. I choose not to ignore the fact the sport has had a black eye in regards to race relations. I love watching the game but you can't ignore the disparity between African Americans in the game.
     
  34. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    It's saying that much like we talk about baseball and Mom and apple pie being fundamentals of our country, metaphorical planks that we all share, so racism. It's as ingrained to our society as baseball.

    (Yeah, baseball is racist, but because it's American not because of something specific to baseball).
     
  35. DukeSox

    DukeSox Rick Derris SoSH Member

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    Which two?
     
  36. Tyrone Biggums

    Tyrone Biggums nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion SoSH Member

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    There's only a handful actually playing in the majors. Are we going to ignore that? I really don't care if you call me an SJW or not. Something I feel passionate about is standing up for the voiceless. As long as that creature is in office these incidents will continue.
     
  37. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Right.
     
  38. barbed wire Bob

    barbed wire Bob crippled by fear Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    The $64 question is why? Youth participation across all sports and all races is down significantly with baseball taking the biggest hit and, according to this article, the biggest driver is money.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/ct-black-baseball-spt-0925-20160923-story.html

    I agree with you that it shouldn't be ignored but the problem appears to be more structural and not something specific to the MLB.
     
    #238 barbed wire Bob, Sep 14, 2017 at 12:50 AM
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017 at 1:08 AM
  39. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I can think of a half dozen ways to do this.
     
  40. tbrown_01923

    tbrown_01923 Member SoSH Member

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    I stand with Adam Jones and black america. Since that incident I haven't watched a game this season. IMO there is no way it grew to its eventual size without security/attendants (or at least one, but perhaps more) negligence in responding to an initial few comments (security is everywhere). And that speaks to organization, culture and training of staff.

    But to me this sign is more of a commentary on the nation. Not on systemic racism in the sport, its marketing/outreach or developmental ranks. The follow up statements confirm that to me - and I doview the national problem being bigger/more important than baseball. We (America AND baseball) should solve them both.
     
  41. section15

    section15 lurker

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    27
    A few points.

    1) IMHO for what it's worth, the sign was trying to convey the message that racism exists in America, and it's as traditional as baseball. Unfortunately - the verbiage left enough ambiguity to spark debate and misunderstanding -- AND -- Fenway Park , in the middle of a game, isn't the place to launch such debates. They got on TV ("Look Ma, I'm a STAR!")...

    2) Yawkey Way? Yeah, I'd have no problem with renaming it - keeping in mind that various facilities built by the Yawkey Foundation - there's a student lounge/center near Kenmore Square with the Yawkey name, also a Boston College athletic facility - these were built with the Yawkey Foundation endowment. And THOSE, I have no problem with them retaining the name. Just one thing - don't give renamed Yawkey Way a commercial tie-in. "Samuel Adams Way", anyone????. NO. And let's skip over Dapper O'Neill and Louise Day Hicks while we're at it.

    3) Earl Wilson. Ah - some say the worst trade in the latter half of the 20th century was the Bagwell-for-Anderson swap. I disagree. Trading Earl Wilson to Detroit for Don Demeter (you may have to look him up) was the most devastating. Had Wilson been winning games for the Sox and not Detroit, the Sox might have clinched the '67 pennant a few days earlier, they would have entered the 1967 WS with a rested Jim Lonborg in game 1, and the results would have been different with Wilson going in game 2 or 3. And they would have had more of a shot in 1968, Lonnie's knee operation not withstanding.

    4) Integration in Boston Sports. While the Yawkey/Red Sox situation was deplorable, we also cannot forget the progressive attitude of the other four sports teams - Braves, Patriots, Bruins, and particularly, the Boston Celtics.

    Walter Brown, historically, did not get the credit he deserved. He went out on a limb to draft the first African-American NBA player. It should be noted that the BAA (NBA) had a competing league when it started in 1946 - that league was the National Basketball League; it had superior talent to the BAA, and had African-American players in it at various times. According to Len Koppett's Silver Anniversary NBA book, Brown raised hell in the draft session by selecting Cooper. But he stood firm.

    Braves? 1950, Jethroe, already mentioned. Patriots? They had Rommie Loudd as one of their coaches, IIRC that was pioneering, and is oft-forgotten. Bruins? O'Ree. There weren't too many blacks playing hockey - but they DID bring him up.

    Regarding Rommie Loudd - obit from the New York Times, 1998

    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/18/sports/rommie-loudd-64-pro-football-coach.html
     
    #241 section15, Sep 14, 2017 at 10:58 AM
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017 at 11:36 AM
  42. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    39,419
     
  43. section15

    section15 lurker

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    There already is a street in Boston - Roxbury - named for Attucks.
     
  44. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    I'm sure it also becomes cyclical in that the fewer black baseball stars, the fewer kids are drawn to watch the sport. It is odd, though, because it really is the most democratic of the 4 major sports, and you would think the kids who size out of basketball or football early on would be drawn to it, if they had the available resources.
     
  45. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity lurker

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    Does Yaz have anything major named after him? I get that the goal may be specifically to name the street after a person of color to counteract the previous name, but on the other hand it seems odd that he doesn't have any major memorials/tunnels/bridges/streets, unless I'm having a mind cramp. He's also still alive and in the Sox organization so would be a nice opportunity to have a dedication ceremony which we know the Sox ownership loves.
     
  46. barbed wire Bob

    barbed wire Bob crippled by fear Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Interestingly enough, of the four major sports, baseball is the sport that comes closest to matching the demographics of the United States.
    From Wikipedia, "As of July 2016, white Americans are the racial majority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.3% of the population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17.8% of the total U.S. population, making up the largest ethnic minority. The White, non-Hispanic or Latino population make up 61.3% of the nation's total, with the total White population (including White Hispanics and Latinos) being 76.9%.

    [​IMG]
    Compare that to football where blacks make up 68% of the players and basketball where blacks make up over 74%. Hockey, on the other hand, is roughly 95% white. In all sports, asians are greatly underrepresented.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States
     
  47. Red(s)HawksFan

    Red(s)HawksFan Member SoSH Member

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    Considering how close Yaz was with Tom Yawkey, I don't expect he'd ever be agreeable to having Yawkey Way renamed in his honor. Another street or bridge or something, maybe. But not Yawkey Way.

    The team did commission and install a statue of Yaz outside Fenway a few years ago, so they've certainly honored him.
     
  48. strek1

    strek1 Member SoSH Member

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    Given how tough it is to remember spelling of his name there's probably not going to be any big push to name anything after him at this point (LOL). Unless they just use the short version.
     
  49. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity lurker

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    Yeah, I thought about the spelling-of-the-name issue and while it's a bit unfortunate that you could be deprived of a street or other landmark purely because of your last name, which is totally out of your control, you're probably not wrong.

    And good point re: Yaz's connection to the Yawkeys. I hadn't even considered he wouldn't accept the honor even if offered. Regardless of his personal beliefs or feelings I could definitely see him just not wanting to get involved one way or the other in the whole situation.
     
  50. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    How many rings does he have?
     

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