Revis: Back to the Future?

bankshot1

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At his age, absent a guarantee for more than $6mm, is it better for Revis to sit and collect $6MM, and then hope to come back a year later, (and a year older/rustier) and then sign a short-term contract for probably short dough, OR play in '17 for a short-money incentive-laden 1 year deal, on a good team (Pats) that could use him wisely, and then assuming he plays reasonably well, sign a better deal after that?
 

Harry Hooper

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As previous posters have said, I don't think Revis is a fit with the Pats anymore given his desire to avoid contact. That's fine when he's taking the opponent's #1 receiving threat out of the game by himself, but doesn't work when he's called upon to play a more general role in the secondary.


This is the thinnest of thin stories put out by La Canfora, BTW.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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One possibility is to have Revis cover the No. 1 receiver short with McCourty helping over the top, while Gilmore takes the No. 2 solo. I could see that working.

Revis' weakness is tackling (whether that's a skill issue or a will issue, I'm not sure). Logan Ryan, by contrast, was a great tackler. The Pats prioritize minimizing YAC, which argues against Revis.
How close can we play McCourty? Cause I'm not sure 24 on the 1 is going to work when we play this guy 2x a year.

 

NickEsasky

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I thought Revis was fat, lazy and toasty this past season. Why would the Pats be interested in bringing him back?
Spite.

While you might not be able to return a blazer for spite, you can certainly bring back a player.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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Revis' weakness is tackling (whether that's a skill issue or a will issue, I'm not sure). Logan Ryan, by contrast, was a great tackler. The Pats prioritize minimizing YAC, which argues against Revis.
Revis's weakness as a younger player was tackling. His weakness now is that he's slow, and can't change direction like he did as a younger player.

I could see him as a "Chung type" where he's covering tight ends at the line, because he can't keep up with smaller faster guys, but Chung is probably much better than him at it.

He seems like a camp flyer to me - who gets cut if he doesn't look a ton better than he did last year.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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This makes no sense. The Jets will pay him $6 million, minus whatever he earns elsewhere this season (if anything). So what is his starting point to play in 2017? Stated differently, how much more than $6 million will it take to sign him?
Is here a way - granted the caveat the Pats are willing to go more than one year on him - that the can structure it so that the Jets bear the bulk of the $6M this season, then he gets a bigger nut in 2018?

Not saying they'd be willing to do that, just wondering how offsets work in that regard. Is the money based on cap hit or actual payout for the year? Could they hypothetically give him get minimum this year and then guarantee him, say, $10M for 2018, essentially making it a 2/$16 deal?
 

BigJimEd

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Why would anyone guarantee Revis that kind of money?

This is just pure speculation. There have been no reports of the Patriots showing interest. It's possible they might but I doubt there is any significant guarantees. They'd be prepared to cut bait quick.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Why would anyone guarantee Revis that kind of money?

This is just pure speculation. There have been no reports of the Patriots showing interest. It's possible they might but I doubt there is any significant guarantees. They'd be prepared to cut bait quick.
I agree it's pure speculation and I'm not saying they should, I was just asking an actual agent about the mechanics of it. Replace 'guarantee' with 'base' or 'ltbe' or whatever you like. I'm just wondering if there's a way to give enough - to Otto's point - to get him to go somewhere/anywhere/here, while also making sure the Jets eat the cap space and dollars.
 

E5 Yaz

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Well, if there are two parties who can structure a contract to inflict maximum pain on a third party ... it's the franchise that manages the cap like the Patriots and a player who's known for being extremely sharp in a business sense
 

PaulinMyrBch

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I really don't know if he'll find the desire to man up and get motivated for little financial reward, when that has been the thing he has sought out his entire career. But who knows, maybe he's a guy who is a brilliantly self motivated football player, who used his elite status (he obtained through raw motivation) and parlayed that into mega contracts, holdouts, and back door dealings to become very well played. Maybe the money was never his thing, but he just played that game because he created Revis Island and money was coming as long as he played the game to get the max. Maybe he doesn't need the money to get motivated. Problem is we, or anyone, won't know for a year.
 

joe dokes

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This would be fascinating in that, typically, players that leave on less than perfect terms just don't come back.

I could still see him being useful, just not a shut down guy any more

I didn't think he left on anything but good terms. The "2 year contract" was a wink-and-nod" both sides understood. Whatever he thought of the way NE does business, he seems like he probably appreciated the quality of the football.
Who knows? Maybe he's Reggie Wayne; but maybe he's Rodney Harrison.

Its house money for BB; he can offer him an almost entirely prove-it deal and not really care what Revis decides.
 

Hagios

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I didn't think he left on anything but good terms. The "2 year contract" was a wink-and-nod" both sides understood. Whatever he thought of the way NE does business, he seems like he probably appreciated the quality of the football.
Who knows? Maybe he's Reggie Wayne; but maybe he's Rodney Harrison.

Its house money for BB; he can offer him an almost entirely prove-it deal and not really care what Revis decides.
I would guess the previous poster is talking about Revis' deflategate comments. As fans, it is our sworn duty to dedicate the rest of our lives to defending the honor of Tom Brady and taking down anyone who said anything bad about him. But Brady himself is probably perfectly happy to be Oritz to Revis' Price.

But the only role I see for Revis is as a third corner. He's not a safety and he's not that good.
 

PedroKsBambino

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You can certainly structure a deal with a minimum salary year one and some guaranteed salary year two, where all the year two money would be new money for Revis. Whether anyone wants to give him that money/commitment is a different question. But, a 2017 league minimum, 2018 $3 mil guaranteed deal is worth $3 mil of new money to him.
 

TheoShmeo

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If Otto is right and it costs $6 mm plus something to get Revis, I can't conceive of the Pats doing this.

Revis might bounce back. He was out of shape last year. He can get back into shape. He probably is very motivated to not let the last impression that NFL fans have of him be the one he left on the field in 2016. He might think the Jets did him dirty in some way and might therefore relish a chance for Patriots 2.0. So all of that argues in favor of a flier on him.

But a flier at $6 mm plus seems very unBill like.
 

Seels

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Revis was one of the best tacklers in the league as a younger player. It's just flatout untrue to say something else.

His weakness has always been athleticism.
 

InstaFace

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Revis was one of the best tacklers in the league as a younger player. It's just flatout untrue to say something else.

His weakness has always been athleticism.
what?

I believe it was Reverend himself who started the series of articles that became ITP with a guide to "how to play cornerback", using Revis as a predominant example. The man's footwork, hands technique, play-reading, acceleration, and nose for the ball made him a legend at a prime position. He was the standout defensive player on a team that snuffed out the season of the 2nd-best Patriots team of all time.

Athleticism? Defined how?
 

Reverend

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what?

I believe it was Reverend himself who started the series of articles that became ITP with a guide to "how to play cornerback", using Revis as a predominant example. The man's footwork, hands technique, play-reading, acceleration, and nose for the ball made him a legend at a prime position. He was the standout defensive player on a team that snuffed out the season of the 2nd-best Patriots team of all time.

Athleticism? Defined how?
I was wondering this too.

He was the guy who made me realize one human could actually mirror another person at that level.

On the other hand, I don't want to read a definition of "athleticism" that makes me wish I could forget how to read.
 

SMU_Sox

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His proday numbers from NFLdraftscout are a 4.38 40, 6.56 3-Cone, 38 inch vertical, a 10'5'' broad jump and a 4.08 20 yard shuttle. Granted that's a pro day but those numbers would be all top 10 at worst for DBs at the combine this year. Sarcasm?
 

Euclis20

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Off topic, but are you calling the 2010 team the "2nd-best Patriots team of all time"?
Not wanting to go further off topic, but the argument could certainly be made. That team finished with a DVOA of 44.6, second best in Pats history and the second best mark of any team over the last 25 years. For my money they're the most disappointing team in the Brady/Belichick era...that team was an absolute juggernaut in the regular season. 14-2, point differential of +205 (also second best in Pats history), and according to pro-football-reference, the 4th toughest SOS that season. It is an odd quirk that the Pats did not win the super bowl in either of their two [statistically] best regular seasons.
 

InstaFace

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Well, the 2012 team had a better point differential, but also two more losses. That 2010 team went something like 6-1 vs playoff teams in the regular season, including over both eventual conference winners. The peak-Revis Jets were, sadly, their kryptonite.
 

BigSoxFan

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Well, the 2012 team had a better point differential, but also two more losses. That 2010 team went something like 6-1 vs playoff teams in the regular season, including over both eventual conference winners. The peak-Revis Jets were, sadly, their kryptonite.
The Patriots beat them 45-3 a few weeks prior to that playoff loss. They just played a really sloppy game with several self-inflicted wounds. I don't think that Jets team was their kryptonite at all.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The Patriots beat them 45-3 a few weeks prior to that playoff loss. They just played a really sloppy game with several self-inflicted wounds. I don't think that Jets team was their kryptonite at all.
Yeah, if Crumpler didn't drop a sure TD pass and if they had eschewed the regrettable fake punt at the end of the first half that game goes far differently.
 

Cousin Walter

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Well, the 2012 team had a better point differential, but also two more losses. That 2010 team went something like 6-1 vs playoff teams in the regular season, including over both eventual conference winners. The peak-Revis Jets were, sadly, their kryptonite.
One of those conference winners they beat was the eventual Super Bowl champion Packers. Except Matt Flynn was starting instead of Rodgers, Dan Connelly almost took a kickoff to the house, and the Pats barely won.
 

lexrageorge

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The defense on that 2010 team was a bit suspect: McCourty and Arrington were the starting corners, and Chandler Jones, Hightower, and Collins had not yet arrived on the scene. The loss of Mike Wright hurt their pass rush. While we remember the offensive and special team miscues from that Jets game, it was Jerricho Cotchery running free for 58 yards through all kinds of missed tackles at the start of the 4th quarter that put the fork in the Pats' comeback hopes.
 

Al Zarilla

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Yeah, if Crumpler didn't drop a sure TD pass and if they had eschewed the regrettable fake punt at the end of the first half that game goes far differently.
The defense on that 2010 team was a bit suspect: McCourty and Arrington were the starting corners, and Chandler Jones, Hightower, and Collins had not yet arrived on the scene. The loss of Mike Wright hurt their pass rush. While we remember the offensive and special team miscues from that Jets game, it was Jerricho Cotchery running free for 58 yards through all kinds of missed tackles at the start of the 4th quarter that put the fork in the Pats' comeback hopes.
I think I'm in the reverse Celebrating What Is thread here.
 

Otto

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Is here a way - granted the caveat the Pats are willing to go more than one year on him - that the can structure it so that the Jets bear the bulk of the $6M this season, then he gets a bigger nut in 2018?

Not saying they'd be willing to do that, just wondering how offsets work in that regard. Is the money based on cap hit or actual payout for the year? Could they hypothetically give him get minimum this year and then guarantee him, say, $10M for 2018, essentially making it a 2/$16 deal?
For starters, the 2017 minimum for a player with 10+ Credited Seasons is $1 million. So even in that scenario, you have to account for the $1 million offset. Plus, albeit on a smaller scale, but the offset credit includes amounts paid for performance based pay. That hypothetical minimum salary player who plays in (hypothetically) half the snaps on defense is going to get a decent amount in performance based pay - and will lose the same amount from his prior guarantee. Same goes for postseason pay and incentive bonuses. Basically, the offsets will add up.

The other issue is that the hypothetical, fully guaranteed $10 million for 2018 could be considered earned at the time of signing. I haven't seen this argued/decided before, so I can't say for sure, but I can certainly see the argument.
 

Toe Nash

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I think Revis could provide a lot of value to the team (especially in a leadership role). Bring it on.
I'm usually the last person to make a big deal about intangibles and the first to say we don't know shit about how locker rooms function, but...there is no way Revis is a good fit for a "leadership role" on this team.
 

quint

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a really good source
I'm usually the last person to make a big deal about intangibles and the first to say we don't know shit about how locker rooms function, but...there is no way Revis is a good fit for a "leadership role" on this team.
Tell us more from the inside, PLEASE.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The other issue is that the hypothetical, fully guaranteed $10 million for 2018 could be considered earned at the time of signing. I haven't seen this argued/decided before, so I can't say for sure, but I can certainly see the argument.
I think the reason this won't get argued is because (and I say this acknowledging it is sad) the guy could die, retire, or violate the terms of the guaranteed contract before it gets paid, and in that scenario he'd still be due the $6 mil from Jets but never due the $10 mil hypothetical 2018 money.
 

RedOctober3829

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PHOENIX — Darrelle Revis and Bill Belichick’s Evil Empire in New England are taking steps toward a reunion.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft on Monday endorsed a Revis return in a conversation with the Daily News and when I asked him if there has been any contact, he winked and smiled. “Ask my boy,” he said, referring to Belichick.

Kraft, however, made it clear that he would welcome Revis back to the Patriots Way.
“I would love it,” he said. “Speaking for myself, if he wanted to come back, he’s a great competitor, I’d welcome him if he wanted to come.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/patriots-owner-love-darrelle-revis-returned-team-article-1.3010739?utm_content=bufferfcffe&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter
 

bankshot1

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I think Kraft chose his words carefully.

"Darrelle is a great player," Johnson said. "If I thought I could've gotten Darrelle for that (money that New England gave him), I probably would've taken him. It was our best judgment to do what we did. Darrelle is a great player. I'd love Darrelle to come back".
 

Curt S Loew

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I think Kraft chose his words carefully.

"Darrelle is a great player," Johnson said. "If I thought I could've gotten Darrelle for that (money that New England gave him), I probably would've taken him. It was our best judgment to do what we did. Darrelle is a great player. I'd love Darrelle to come back".
I would say deliberately not carefully.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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why be deliberate or careful? The man's a free agent right now.
No need to be careful, but I can see him being deliberate with word choice if for nothing else than to turn the knife. Revis ain't what he used to be, but even if he played a small role on another title team Woody would have a lot of sleepless nights.
 

bankshot1

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I think Kraft was tweaking Woody and the J-E-T-S

If the Pats can sign him for the vet's min, the irony of Woody's "If I thought I could've gotten Darrelle for that (money that New England gave him), I probably would've taken him" is pretty funny.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I am in the "yes" camp when it comes to Revis but I don't see Kraft's statement as a smoking gun of any sort. Since when did he have any influence when it comes to roster decisions?
 

sezwho

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I'm in if Bill is. How about $2mm + 250k for every game he is on the roster? If he gets in shape and plays the whole season, he is the six million dollar man. If he is fooling either the Pats or himself, we find out the first time an RB gets into the backfield unchecked. The bullfighter's ole gets you cut. Its hard to guess at motivations for the elite of the elite (I think he is Hall of Fame worthy), but its hard not to think pride is burning him alive right now after the last years crap sandwich on and off the field.
 

Koufax

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If he's getting $6MM from the Jets, money that is reduced to the extent that the Pats pay him, what's the incentive to chase after bonus money?
 

InstaFace

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yeah, vet minimum for 2017 + big "proved-it" option for 2018 is where I'd go. Jets don't have any financial obligation to him beyond this coming year, right?
 

dcmissle

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If it's trolling, it's first rate. Myers of the News. Well done.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I think Kraft was tweaking Woody and the J-E-T-S

If the Pats can sign him for the vet's min, the irony of Woody's "If I thought I could've gotten Darrelle for that (money that New England gave him), I probably would've taken him" is pretty funny.
I don't think it's just tweaking, I think it's "if the Pats think he's worth signing maybe we should bring him back" at an even higher salary by the Jets.
 

TheoShmeo

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I think some are reading too much in.

Kraft is sentimental in general and about certain star players in particular. If his HC/GM sees fit to bring one of the greats at corner who won a ring with the Pats, and didn't leave on good terms, back to the fold, then he's delighted.

Sure, part of his delight could be tied to tweaking the Jets, but Kraft's words seem pretty benign to me.
 

loshjott

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PHOENIX — Darrelle Revis and Bill Belichick’s Evil Empire in New England are taking steps toward a reunion.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft on Monday endorsed a Revis return in a conversation with the Daily News and when I asked him if there has been any contact, he winked and smiled. “Ask my boy,” he said, referring to Belichick.

Kraft, however, made it clear that he would welcome Revis back to the Patriots Way.
“I would love it,” he said. “Speaking for myself, if he wanted to come back, he’s a great competitor, I’d welcome him if he wanted to come.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/patriots-owner-love-darrelle-revis-returned-team-article-1.3010739?utm_content=bufferfcffe&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter
As an aside, I get the feeling BB would much prefer Kraft didn't talk to the press about these things. And certainly not refer to him as "my boy."

He probably views Kraft as a necessary evil. In the "football life" documentary, the scenes of Kraft visiting BB's office and the two interacting generally were uncomfortable, with the look on BB's face saying "stop talking to me and let me get back to work." Of course, to be fair, that is his default expression.
 

InstaFace

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I think BB consults with Kraft and values his opinion far more than they let on externally. Bob Kraft when he's not crafting a media-friendly public persona is a shark of a businessman and knows what's important in building an organization. He'll at least ask the right questions and facilitate discussion if BB's team disagree amongst themselves.

The scene from the 2009 documentary was staged for the camera. I doubt it reflects much about how their day-to-day actually looks.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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As an aside, I get the feeling BB would much prefer Kraft didn't talk to the press about these things. And certainly not refer to him as "my boy." He probably views Kraft as a necessary evil.
I always thought BB respected Kraft as much as any HC would an owner. Much more than a "necessary evil", BB probably views Kraft as essential to his (and the Pats) success and rightfully so.