Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

Should we be talking about the goalie?

Discussion in 'Rick Middleton's Pron 'Stache: Bruins Forum' started by Lose Remerswaal, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. grantb

    grantb Couldn't get into a real school Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,964
    Player A
    upload_2018-4-26_13-26-25.png
    Player B
    upload_2018-4-26_13-26-38.png


    Look, I like Rask and I certainly root for him, but I have no idea how you can be confident with him in goal for a must-win game.
     
  2. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    18,276
    The pick turned into Trent Frederic.
     
  3. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,623
    I do not know what conclusion I am supposed to reach from that chart or how you got to your conclusion from that chart and not the very carefully selected moments you described early.
     
  4. TFP

    TFP Dope Dope

    Messages:
    16,055
    He literally just won a must-win game last night.
     
  5. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,623
    It seems we're bastardizing the definition of a must-win game to only mean a game in which the Bruins are going to be eliminated. Instead of every game in the playoffs IMO.
     
  6. The Allented Mr Ripley

    The Allented Mr Ripley holden Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,127
    In an unscientific observation of my FB feed last night, the Venn diagram of people I know to be patently stupid knee-jerk sports fans and those who were anti-Tuukka was pretty much a single overlapping circle.
     
  7. AMcGhie

    AMcGhie The Robinson Canoe of RMPS SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,437
    Hey! Let's arbitrarily take two recent things and use them to extrapolate back over actual evidence!
    That's not how statistics works. A sample size of one series is functionally useless in statistics.
     
  8. AMcGhie

    AMcGhie The Robinson Canoe of RMPS SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,437
    Its pretty much as if they get their entertainment by listening to people tell them who to get angry at.
     
  9. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,133
    Like I said, outside of one playoff series, Jones's stats are still no better than Rask's.
     
  10. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,703
    The B's scored 7 goals last night. Scott Foster could have won that game (note I did not say Blaine Lacher). /hyperbole

    We've got another 48 hours + until puck drop. No such thing as too much hockey talk.
     
  11. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,155
    Except this isn’t a good conversation. Rask is the Bruin’s goalie until he gets hurt, they get eliminated, or they win the Cup.
    And I hate the argument that “you have to play the game to understand,” but when one side of this argument is professional hockey players, coaches, and actual journalists, and the other side is cliackbait trolls and fucking Johnny Burger King (who is also screaming about “blowing the team up” after the 1st period)...i know where stand.

    Edit: and Lose- this isn’t a shot at you, I appreciate new threads and ideas, especially when we’ve got a few days to settle down. I just think it’s a played out conversation that is either over for some people, or will never end.
     
  12. TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

    TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,880
    In the 2000-01 season, Brodeur posted an .897 save percentage en route to losing the Stanley Cup to the Avs in 7 games. He "blew" two clinching games (games 6 and 7) in a row and gave up 7 goals in doing so.

    In 1998-99, he posted an .856 save percentage and lost in 7 games to PIT in the 1st round and gave up 3+ goals in every NJD loss.

    His team had 105 points that season and lost to a 90 point Pittsburgh team that had Jaromir Jagr, Martin Straka and not much else.

    Even great goalies (and Brodeur is arguably the GOAT) have bad playoff series and bad playoff games at times. Rask is no different (and he's certainly not Marty Brodeur).
     
  13. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    26,199
    Yup. He is what he is. This discussion is more about having this discussion and the people who have this discussion than it is about Rask.
     
  14. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,314
    The problem with this thought exercise is that we can never know what the Bruins would’ve gotten for Rask. This coming from someone who wanted the Bruins to explore trading Rask and keeping Jones in-the-moment... but Jones brought back Kuraly, who I am also a fan of, and Frederic who is a top-rated prospect, so I’m fine with how it all worked out.
     
  15. TFP

    TFP Dope Dope

    Messages:
    16,055
    How is 4 goals in 7 shots in a playoff game? Is that good?
     
  16. veritas

    veritas Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,824
    His playoff save percentage is down to .928
     
  17. NYCSox

    NYCSox chris hansen of goats Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,463
    You guys sure put the hex on Jones. :)
     
  18. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    31,904
    How's Martin Jones looking tonight?? Pulled after 5 goals.
     
  19. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,227
    LVK are so fucking good. This isn't how this is supposed to work.
     
  20. Stanley Steamer

    Stanley Steamer Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    887
    I don't think the question is so much whether Rask is or was a good goalie. He is. His record speaks for itself.
    The question is to what extent you stick with him, in adversity, going forward. He has been up and down so far, pulled in game 5, and giving up 4 goals in 30 minutes last game. Though clearly not all his fault, I don't think it's preposterous to have considered a switch back to Khudobin at that point in the game. In retrospect, Cassidy's patience paid off, and the team is better for it. Reference was made earlier to Rask's uneven play to start the season, when Khudobin's solid fill-in work seemed to light a fire under him.
    Rask is the rightful #1, and deserves to start going forward. But these are the playoffs, and a few of our core players may not be able to sustain this level of excellence for much longer. As such, Rask must play well now, or risk giving his coach, and Joe 6-pack sports fan, reason to doubt.
     
  21. Stanley Steamer

    Stanley Steamer Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    887
    There's too much money to be made for it not to work.
     
  22. Haunted

    Haunted The Man in the Box SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,546
    60 minutes.
     
  23. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    30,703
    Both are true.
     
  24. The Napkin

    The Napkin wise ass al kaprielian Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    19,504
    Or Rinne tonight...
     
  25. Salem's Lot

    Salem's Lot Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog! SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,177
    For a $500 million franchise fee it better work early. Imagine the player pool Seattle gets to choose from for $650.
     
  26. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,227
  27. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,623
    What about goalie equipment?
     
  28. Rico Guapo

    Rico Guapo lurker

    Messages:
    1,177
    I'm guessing his old pads were burned in a dumpster fire.
     
  29. Haunted

    Haunted The Man in the Box SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,546
    Whatever the case he was terrific tonight. It’s going to be a short series if he plays thusly.


    It won’t. He’ll be up and down as usual and Tampa will be better. But Tuukka was a brick wall tonight.
     
  30. RetractableRoof

    RetractableRoof Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,076
    Anyone with knowledge want to offer some goalie equipment related thoughts/insight?

    How often do goalies change pads? Do they replace them w/exact duplicates when they do it in season or in playoffs in this case? Like baseball gloves are they practicing with a new pair to break them in or are there other techniques? Over time do they get heavier with use or not drying out completely? Are the new pads custom Tuukka models or do goalies choose from existing lines? Do they help Tuukka run faster like my brand new sneakers did in elementary school?

    Just curious since the network coverage made a point of mentioning his changing equipment.
     
  31. Lupe Whalewatch

    Lupe Whalewatch Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,210
    I would venture an educated guess and say the majority of goalies in the NHL do not change to brand new pads during a season, although they will start each year with 2 or 3 sets that will be broken in to their liking...and barring some weird equipment malfunction, I'm guessing no goalie has ever changed pads in between a playoff series.
     
  32. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,623
    Goalies are crazy. They do stuff that makes no sense often. Hockey players are stitous. Goalies are superstitious
     
  33. TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

    TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,880
    Jones gave up 3 last night in a win. 8 in two games for him.
     
  34. Soxfan in Fla

    Soxfan in Fla Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,708
    Rask had some fantastic saves in game 1. Outside of actually giving up the goal, didn’t let the skate blade issue rattle him.
     
  35. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    26,199
    Imagine if he gave up four, three games in a row.
     
  36. TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle

    TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,880
    Yeah, playoffs are tough, huh?
     
  37. Dummy Hoy

    Dummy Hoy Angry Pissbum SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,155
    Someone should lock this thread.
     
  38. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    31,904
    6 goals allowed in Game 2 on top of Game 1 for Vas. Tuukka would be tar and feathered for this.
     
  39. AMcGhie

    AMcGhie The Robinson Canoe of RMPS SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,437
    My final thoughts on this.
    The level of play on a night for a player is not a bar, its a bell curve. Some nights are better than others, and Tuukka is often good, sometimes outstanding, and sometimes clunky. The thing is, his bad nights, and their frequency are NOT this team's biggest problem. They're about 7th or 8th on the list. He's paid a cap-friendly amount and is a position on this team I'm ok with just staying as is going forward to next year.

    The only reason I'd see getting rid of him is if the return is significant, but that is entirely hypothetical, and extremely unlikely.
     
  40. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

    Messages:
    29,931
    Vas got his team to the Conference Finals. That's going to paper over a lot of sins.
     
  41. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,314
    That is EVERY goalie. The problem is when fans of one team don't recognize this and assume a goalie they see 3-4 times a season is WAY better than the guy they watch 82+ times a season because that opposing goalie stood on his head against their team.

    That is why teams keep statistics, they take away the bias. Tuukka is fine. He's not the second coming, but he's not "worst gollie evar" like some mouthbreathers would like to make him out to be. Yes his cap hit may be a bit higher than I'd like but as you said he's far from the biggest problems this team has.
     
  42. The Napkin

    The Napkin wise ass al kaprielian Dope SoSH Member

    Messages:
    19,504
    Yeah, it really sucks that Tuukka's never been able to do that
     
  43. cshea

    cshea Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    18,276
    Rask career regular season save percentage: .920

    Rask career post season save percentage: .922

    Blaming the goalie is always the easiest thing to do since they’re the last line of defense.
     
  44. Zososoxfan

    Zososoxfan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,028
    If the B's had lost to the Laffs, Tuukka woulda been in for more heat since he played poorly that series. Against the Bolts, he was not in the top 5 biggest problems.

    He's a fine netminder, top third of the league without looking (would love to learn how to modify tables on hockey-reference, currently can't put in a qualifier for games played and get salary info on the same page). But a quick look shows that about 10 goalies had 50+ GP and a higher SV% this season.

    As the club looks to round out the skaters on the roster, Tuukka is a solid player to have in net. If they had an opportunity to get cheaper in net while netting (heh) a good skater and prospect, I think they would consider it, provided there was a viable alternative for starting goalie.
     
    #94 Zososoxfan, May 14, 2018
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  45. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

    Messages:
    29,931
    Memories are very, very short.
     
  46. Over Guapo Grande

    Over Guapo Grande panty merchant SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,360
    Memories are very, very short.
     
  47. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,314
    I read it as sarcasm though i have been known to be mistaken from time to time. Its so hard to keep track of who hates Tuukka and who loves him.
     
  48. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

    Messages:
    29,931
    Well, let's be fair, he's "only" done it once, and it was 5 years ago. Not saying he can't do it again, but it was eons ago in sporting terms.
     
  49. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    26,199
    He’s about average at this point in his career. He’s tied for third among goalies in salary.
     
  50. FL4WL3SS

    FL4WL3SS Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,227
    So what are you implying? Not being a wiseass, I'd like to know. Do you think they should trade him and look for a less expensive option? Go with in-house options?

    If he's average, we should be able to play Joe Goaltender and not see any drop-off in team performance next year. Do you agree?
     

Share This Page