Sixers thread: now with expectations

scottyno

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collar's fine, move on.

I'm hoping they stay away from Zarren and go for a name/ex-Player/media guy like Chauncey Billups, Danny Ferry or David Griffin
Might not mean anything if the Sixers come calling, but Zarren was at summer league sitting with Celtics brass and very into the games, fist pumping and cheering with every Cs basket, most by guys who won't be with the team in a week. Certainly didn't look like a guy about to leave to run a rival organization.
 

HomeRunBaker

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collar's fine, move on.

I'm hoping they stay away from Zarren and go for a name/ex-Player/media guy like Chauncey Billups, Danny Ferry or David Griffin
Ainge acknowledged that Zarren already turned down Philly prior to them hiring Hinkie. There has to be some strong compensating factors to turn down, what, a 6x annual raise? Bizarre.
 

InstaFace

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I think Morey kind of made sense as a why not see what they say.
But I mean hardly likely given Hinkie quite aside from why would he leave Houston.
But new owners and some rumblings around so eh
I wonder if they sniffed around and Houston was offended and leaked it as payback.

Seems bad first thing to be heard about the search though lol
Morey's motivation would be, his contention window with the Rockets has 1-2 years left and his odds just got longer this offseason. Could see an argument for choosing a team on the way up to round into championship form, rather than try to hang on in Houston and get blamed for the inevitable descent.

That said, I do think there are meaningful ownership differences in play here.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Morey's motivation would be, his contention window with the Rockets has 1-2 years left and his odds just got longer this offseason. Could see an argument for choosing a team on the way up to round into championship form, rather than try to hang on in Houston and get blamed for the inevitable descent.

That said, I do think there are meaningful ownership differences in play here.
I definitely see a case for Morey to accept the Philly gig. His reputation is at its
apex following a 65-win season and a hamstring away from knocking out the "invincible" Warriors".......and now must duplicate it while losing two key versatile defenders in Ariza and Mbah a Moute. Otoh, the stubbornness in one would naturally want to see this thing to a Championship. I see both sides.
 

JCizzle

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Ainge acknowledged that Zarren already turned down Philly prior to them hiring Hinkie. There has to be some strong compensating factors to turn down, what, a 6x annual raise? Bizarre.
He's a lifelong Celtics fan, I imagine he's pretty happy living his dream right now like some of us would be. It also wouldn't shock me if he's quietly the unofficial GM in waiting, similar to McDaniels and Belichick. Ainge did have those health scares awhile ago so who knows how long he plans to stick with it.
 

cheech13

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So this is somewhat bizarre and it really hurts the team's depth. He was going to be getting all those Illyasova minutes.


Free agent forward Nemanja Bjelica -- who had agreed to a one-year deal with the 76ers -- informed the team on Monday that he will stay in Europe this season, league sources tell ESPN. He never signed his contract with Philadelphia.
 

LondonSox

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So this is somewhat bizarre and it really hurts the team's depth. He was going to be getting all those Illyasova minutes.


Free agent forward Nemanja Bjelica -- who had agreed to a one-year deal with the 76ers -- informed the team on Monday that he will stay in Europe this season, league sources tell ESPN. He never signed his contract with Philadelphia.
I disagree tbh. He was a zero defense one position defender. Ilyasova could play center in the 5 out lineup, he could not have.
I liked the move for the optionality but I am dubious he would play a whole lot because of the focus on defense the team tries to have.

They just need another wing shooter of some kind. Covington has been constantly better at the 4 (he can handle many 4s defensively - and switch happy d) because he's got an advantage offensively he doesn't have speed wise on faster wings.
Saric, Covington, Chandler can all handle 4 (in that order).
They need another wing though.
 

benhogan

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I disagree tbh. He was a zero defense one position defender. Ilyasova could play center in the 5 out lineup, he could not have.
I liked the move for the optionality but I am dubious he would play a whole lot because of the focus on defense the team tries to have.

They just need another wing shooter of some kind. Covington has been constantly better at the 4 (he can handle many 4s defensively - and switch happy d) because he's got an advantage offensively he doesn't have speed wise on faster wings.
Saric, Covington, Chandler can all handle 4 (in that order).
They need another wing though.
wonder if they would have brought in O'Quinn or Ellington if they didn't have money earmarked for Bjelica
 

benhogan

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That is a fair point.
Though Ellington got more and oquinn got multiple years I think. So, not at the price.
Pacers got O'Quinn. 1yr for $4.5M
great signing

The Chandler deal was a head-scratcher. Wilson at $12M is a much older, lesser version of MaMo. Could have done more with that money in this market.
 

DavidTai

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The Chandler deal was a head-scratcher. Wilson at $12M is a much older, lesser version of MaMo. Could have done more with that money in this market.
I think they basically 'bought' the Miami pick with Wilson's salary, though. Otherwise, I agree with you.
 

cheech13

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The Bjelica story gets more bizarre.

Shams Charania‏ @ShamsCharania 58s59 seconds ago
Forward Nemanja Bjelica and the Kings plan to begin discussing potential deal, league sources tell Yahoo Sports. Bjelica represents a shooter on the wing/frontcourt, and a long-term fit makes sense.
From what I understand his family didn't want to move somewhere for one season. He either wanted a multi-year deal from a team in the US or he was going back to Europe. Given those parameters he shouldn't have verbally agreed to the Philly contract, but it's not the first time a player has agreed to something during the moratorium and then changed their mind when it's actually time to sign.
 

HomeRunBaker

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From what I understand his family didn't want to move somewhere for one season. He either wanted a multi-year deal from a team in the US or he was going back to Europe. Given those parameters he shouldn't have verbally agreed to the Philly contract, but it's not the first time a player has agreed to something during the moratorium and then changed their mind when it's actually time to sign.
There is a strong likelihood of agent and player miscommunication here.

I really like Bjelica's game in todays NBA. His defensive shortcomings are discussed but frankly I don't see them at all. He's a really good positional defender and what he lacks in lateral quickness makes up in this area as well as having the size to hide this weakness. I really like what Sacramento is doing considering they really have little to work with and nobody of significance wanting to play there. If Fox develops they may have something.....and this second year is a HUGE year for him to make a leap.
 

benhogan

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Like the Muscala pick up for the Sixers. A veteran big that can spread the floor. Local kid, Bucknell. Really nice shooting stroke. 1yr $5M.
TLC/Anderson not really needed with a batch of wings/youngsters coming and roster crunch.

Just do something with Bayless and the Sixers are done.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Like the Muscala pick up for the Sixers. A veteran big that can spread the floor. Local kid, Bucknell. Really nice shooting stroke. 1yr $5M.
TLC/Anderson not really needed with a batch of wings/youngsters coming and roster crunch.

Just do something with Bayless and the Sixers are done.
The hot rumor now is Bayless to Cleveland for Korver.
 

benhogan

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Holmes for $1M to the Suns? I kind of liked him as a deep bench piece. Showed some energy.

NBA Yard Sale: Centers that can't shoot 3s for FREE
 

LondonSox

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His defense never delevoped and with bolden, amir, muscala there was no need to keep him.

The fact that in his cheap one year deal he wasn't even worth any kind of 2nd says that others don't see his defense ever improving.
I think that's harsh but so be it.

The sixers fans are up in arms about giving up the bottom of the roster for basically not much but man the roster looks deep right now and I'd rather give development minutes to bolden, zhaire and Korkmaz than TLC, Anderson and Holmes.

I think all 3 can be useful but always we're better in theory than practice.
TLC just never had his althletic ability show and just never got his shot consistent. Great cutter and has defensive tools. Anderson can defend but never got his shot remotely close to good. Holmes can jump and shot block, but still goes for blocks over being in rebound positioning and just could never get rotations worked out
 

benhogan

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The sixers fans are up in arms about giving up the bottom of the roster for basically not much but man the roster looks deep right now and I'd rather give development minutes to bolden, zhaire and Korkmaz than TLC, Anderson and Holmes.

I think all 3 can be useful but always we're better in theory than practice.
TLC just never had his althletic ability show and just never got his shot consistent. Great cutter and has defensive tools. Anderson can defend but never got his shot remotely close to good. Holmes can jump and shot block, but still goes for blocks over being in rebound positioning and just could never get rotations worked out
Agreed. Sixers have to see what you have with all 3 of those players. And more importantly, develop them. Korkmaz is really interesting, need to work him in low leverage situations and let him gain some confidence with his shooting.

Still think I'd rather have Holmes talents instead of an aging Amir Johnson, but maybe's Amir's vet presence is needed with so many youngsters.
 

LondonSox

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I'm not going to complain seriously about Amir on the vet minimum really, just that 4 centers is a bit overkill. Although Bolden and Muscala can probably play some 4 too.
Teams always seem to use too much money and roster space on centers. Except the Lakers this year apparently
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Shams is reporting that Zhaire Smith has a broken foot and needs surgery. Another rookie missing most of their first year?
 

BigSoxFan

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Shams is reporting that Zhaire Smith has a broken foot and needs surgery. Another rookie missing most of their first year?
Sounds like it. Jones Fracture kept Simmons out the entire year but I think Sixers were being extra cautious there. Smith should be able to return sometime in the 2nd half. Basically a lost year for him given his developmental status. Tough news for Philly. Going to get nothing from another top 10 pick in Year 1.
 

Sox Puppet

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I get that they picked up the 2021 Heat pick by trading down for Zhaire, but honestly, if I were the Sixers I would have just stuck with Mikal Bridges. Not only do you have the local angle (hometown kid makes good), but Bridges is more mature/experienced and ready to play now, which fits their timeline better. Even without the injury, you're still banking on upside from the raw Smith, but that could take a long while to develop.

Imagine last year's Sixers team with Bridges replacing Covington at the 3, and then also getting some contribution -- any -- from Fultz. That would have been a big leap forward for them.
 

cheech13

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I get that they picked up the 2021 Heat pick by trading down for Zhaire, but honestly, if I were the Sixers I would have just stuck with Mikal Bridges. Not only do you have the local angle (hometown kid makes good), but Bridges is more mature/experienced and ready to play now, which fits their timeline better. Even without the injury, you're still banking on upside from the raw Smith, but that could take a long while to develop.

Imagine last year's Sixers team with Bridges replacing Covington at the 3, and then also getting some contribution -- any -- from Fultz. That would have been a big leap forward for them.
A contribution from Fultz would have been huge, but I'm not following the Covington/Bridges part. It's unlikely that Bridges is ever as good as Covington, let alone as a rookie. Giving any of Covington's minutes to Bridges would have likely been a downgrade.

I have no particular insight into Bridges versus Zhaire Smith, but a lot of the draftniks seemed to think Zhaire is comparable to Bridges now with a much higher ceiling. I think the Sixers have the luxury of waiting a bit on his talent. That's a luxury most teams picking in the lottery don't have.
 

nighthob

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They're not remotely comparable. Smith has a lot of tantalizing physicals, but he's still (basically) a more athletic Avery Bradley. Right down to the size. I know they list his height as 6'5", but Delonte West was a lot closer to 6'4" than Smith is to 6'5" (put another way, all three guys are 6'2"). He has a better right hand than Bradley, but Bradley was a better shooter (because Smith is nearly as good a shooter as Marcus Smart).

So Zhaire Smith is raaaaaaw and a lottery ticket. I'd argue that Philly wasted its time on the lottery ticket when it had a solid double in hand, and what they really need at this point isn't more lottery tickets, but players that fill a role on a team that already has its two stars. And a 2/3 that can space the floor was a much better bet than a SG so short that he has to defend the point, and can't shoot.

Unless they really believe that Fultz can't be salvaged and are looking to use him as bait for either another 2 guard or a big guard with a complete game (i.e. someone to share offensive QB duties with Simmons).
 

BigSoxFan

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It'll be interesting to follow this. I probably would have stayed put with Bridges. He should be a solid rotation guy for a long time. I'm really not sure what to think of Zhaire Smith, even if healthy. The Miami 2021 pick may potentially be valuable but there's no guarantee it's some 2019 Sac pick or anything. If that pick helps Philly land a difference maker in the next couple of years, then the calculus changes. Right now, I can't shake the feeling that Philly is going to regret passing on Lonnie Walker at 16.
 

the moops

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what they really need at this point isn't more lottery tickets, but players that fill a role on a team that already has its two stars. And a 2/3 that can space the floor was a much better bet than a SG so short that he has to defend the point, and can't shoot..
Well, they really have nobody to defend the point, so some would argue that is in fact a greater need than a floor spacer (Redick, Covington, Saric) do a decent enough job, IMO.
 

nighthob

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They have lots of guys that can defend there, and pretty shitty floor spacing. And the floor spacing issues are just going to be complicated by Zhaire Smith (if he's starting then the very-streaky Covington is their lone floor spacer, that's a real problem). But if they think that Fultz is unsalvageable, then maybe they're on the lookout for a Mikal Bridges type to replace him.
 

the moops

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Why would anyone expect the rookie Smith to be starting? Seems they are pretty set on their Simmons, Redick, Covington, Saric, Embiid starting 5.
 

cheech13

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Why would anyone expect the rookie Smith to be starting? Seems they are pretty set on their Simmons, Redick, Covington, Saric, Embiid starting 5.
He wouldn't be starting. In fact, he'd be behind McConnell, Fultz and Chandler in the guard/wing rotation as well. Yeah it's too bad that he's hurt but he wasn't going to play a big role on this year's team anyway.
 

LondonSox

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I get that they picked up the 2021 Heat pick by trading down for Zhaire, but honestly, if I were the Sixers I would have just stuck with Mikal Bridges. Not only do you have the local angle (hometown kid makes good), but Bridges is more mature/experienced and ready to play now, which fits their timeline better. Even without the injury, you're still banking on upside from the raw Smith, but that could take a long while to develop.

Imagine last year's Sixers team with Bridges replacing Covington at the 3, and then also getting some contribution -- any -- from Fultz. That would have been a big leap forward for them.
Bridges wouldn't replace Covington and probably would have been the first wing off the bench.
His ceiling might be Covington. Better shooter but worse defender.
He's got a better release and far more consistent shot but as I watched more film the worse I found him on ball defensively and frankly his team defense, while great, is highly unlikely to be Covington (first team all D).

Smith is a better on ball defender, more althetic, much better first step and is multiple years younger. Smith has a huge ceiling, his handle and shot need work but imo he's as good as Bridges defensively, younger and with some self creation upside. He's a better passer too.

I like Bridges and he would have fit, but it's a major reach to see him as more than a very good role player. Zhaire has tremendous upside.

The window stuff is shrug. And picking up a good asset for a guy who has a higher ceiling, but a lower floor is good business to me

I think zhaire is younger, better on ball defender, more handle upside, better passer, better cutter and higher BBIQ
Bridges is a mildly better off ball defender and much better shooter (though he was worse than zhaire at his age)
Defensive rebounding wise I think similar, Bridges bigger but zhaire much more althetic. Offensive rebounding I think zhaire is elite today. Well if his foot wasn't broken
 

bowiac

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They're not remotely comparable. Smith has a lot of tantalizing physicals, but he's still (basically) a more athletic Avery Bradley. Right down to the size. I know they list his height as 6'5", but Delonte West was a lot closer to 6'4" than Smith is to 6'5" (put another way, all three guys are 6'2"). He has a better right hand than Bradley, but Bradley was a better shooter (because Smith is nearly as good a shooter as Marcus Smart).
Are the wingspans a lie too? The reason Bradley was sneaky bad on defense was his inability to guard 2s (and his inability to play the point on offense), which made him a bad fit unless paired with Smart. If you're telling me Smith has that same flaw, then I'm with you, but he's listed at a 6'10" wingspan FWIW.

Bridges for Smith and the Miami pick was a no-brainer IMO. There is no "window" for Philly. They're building for the next 10+ years, and in the short term are trapped behind a Celtics team that has hit HR after HR in the draft, and a Raptors team that won 59 games and added a top 4 talent in the NBA (to say nothing of the Warriors).
 

LondonSox

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Smith has already guarded POA capably and then played as a 4 later in the season.
He seems to have something of the smart gene of being shockingly compentent with a size disadvantage. I'm dubious that he could do that in the NBA, but I said the same about Smart when he joined the league. We shall see.

But I'm pretty confident he has all the tools and concentration and effort, with solid to good BBIQ, to be a good on ball and decent team defender. With a lot of upside if he can handle bigger guys.

The wingspan is good, I really hope the foot injury doesn't impact his altheticism because he is FUN.

I think that plus his cutting ability meant that even for a non lottery pick on a good team he was really going to be planned for minutes.

Sixers have a major POA defender hole (as per last year) and a shortage of wings after this.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The Pardon My Take podcast out this week with JJ Redick is outstanding. Must listen for 76ers fans, NBA fans and sports fans in general.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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https://www.podcastone.com/pardon-my-take

Begins @ 37:38

ED: "I'm really grateful for math" is pretty funny
Thank you. Redick is surprisingly candid - I know he does his own podcast but Big Cat and PFT are a both great and tough as interviewers because they are always half serious.

Listen to for a throwaway line by PFT about Melo btw. I am still laughing at it and how quick PFT is with his wit.
 

benhogan

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Excellent podcast. This past year has led me to really appreciate ex-villains, Kobe, ARod, and JJ.
 
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LondonSox

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Is that from the pod? It's on my watch list.

I cannot believe they haven't interviewed anyone, it's a free shot at free information and insight.

These owners man. But I would be shocked if they don't just keep the existing one at this point and name an internal guy, I hope not Brett Brown.

Fucking silver and coangelos
 

Reverend

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Is that from the pod? It's on my watch list.

I cannot believe they haven't interviewed anyone, it's a free shot at free information and insight.

These owners man. But I would be shocked if they don't just keep the existing one at this point and name an internal guy, I hope not Brett Brown.

Fucking silver and coangelos
It's funny that I can't make the flip side of the joke you made over there over here.
 

LondonSox

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76ers front office being run by groupthink?

Ok I've got to 2.30 in this and what is this crap?
The tank was 3 years plus a 4th because Simmons got hurt and then embiid. You can say 4 if you want you cannot say 8.

The person who did the markelle Fultz trade has been FIRED. To say the front office who did that is in place is moronic.

So far the single piece of anything like evidence is Pompey, who is utter trash. Colangelo mouthpiece.

The owners have not been involved in any way more than a normal. The evidence for a committee is??

Hinkie was a puppet???? Lol wot.

This is utter nonsense I can't keep going past 5 minutes. Who is this? Is it serious? Lolollol
 

benhogan

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Ok I've got to 2.30 in this and what is this crap?
The tank was 3 years plus a 4th because Simmons got hurt and then embiid. You can say 4 if you want you cannot say 8.

The person who did the markelle Fultz trade has been FIRED. To say the front office who did that is in place is moronic.

So far the single piece of anything like evidence is Pompey, who is utter trash. Colangelo mouthpiece.

The owners have not been involved in any way more than a normal. The evidence for a committee is??

Hinkie was a puppet???? Lol wot.

This is utter nonsense I can't keep going past 5 minutes. Who is this? Is it serious? Lolollol
90% of Scouts Honor is completely nutz and should only be used during the off-season to cure boredom. His rants on Kyrie are incessant.

Just curious why the 76ers haven't named a GM yet? I'm not a fan of the GM/Coach duel role in today's NBA.
 

LondonSox

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90% of Scouts Honor is completely nutz and should only be used during the off-season to cure boredom. His rants on Kyrie are incessant.

Just curious why the 76ers haven't named a GM yet? I'm not a fan of the GM/Coach duel role in today's NBA.
Yeah as per my post above it's looking like an internal appointment, I don't think it will be brown but I think he will have huge if not final say.
It's a mess, for supposedly a bunch of very smart owners they are so good damned shit.
Hinkie still being there would be best for everyone
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Yeah as per my post above it's looking like an internal appointment, I don't think it will be brown but I think he will have huge if not final say.
It's a mess, for supposedly a bunch of very smart owners they are so good damned shit.
Hinkie still being there would be best for everyone
More of the search progress, or lack thereof, from Woj:

Philadelphia 76ers managing partner Josh Harris told ESPN that the franchise's general manager search is identifying new targets to meet and interview, but he didn't rule out leaving the interim structure in place for the coming season.

"It does leave open that possibility," Harris told ESPN on Monday. "We prefer to find an elite talent who can lead us, but we aren't going to compromise."
The 76ers inquired about several top front-office executives, but rival owners seldom have interest in allowing those kinds of individuals permission to exit contracts -- even if that GM had interest in exploring the Sixers' opening. Philadelphia has been gathering information on several assistant GM candidates and non-top executives in recent weeks, league sources said. The next pool of candidates would have a far easier ability to accept a job with the Sixers.

"There are a very small number of elite sitting GMs, and they're generally under contract with teams for a long time," Harris told ESPN. "Those situations tend not to change much. For us, we need someone to add real value, which includes looking at young up-and-coming basketball executives and non-traditional candidates.

"We're going to have a pretty selective list. This is not going to be huge tournament. We're going to talk to some people who aren't sitting GMs who could add value to our situation.

"What I've learned is that GM job has got many facets, and that it's a learned skill. It's certainly got a public-facing nature to it, but management and very strong relationships are important -- and very few people who are not sitting GMs have all of those components. We have strengths in all those areas around our front office right now."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24492287/philadelphia-76ers-expanding-gm-search-not-hire-one