Sweet 16 Game Thread

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,947
Spellman literally just climbed through the back of the WVU player for the put back dunk, and nobody seemed to notice. Is over the back not a foul anymore?
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
61,996
New York City
The reffing is just atrocious. It's been atrocious for the past 9 days. Ohio State got screwed, Nevada got screwed, WVA is getting screwed, and Clemson is getting screwed. I am certain there are scores more.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,947
LOL, now they throw a double technical on Konate/Spellman for talking crap, never even got close to anything physical. Konate now has 4 fouls. Unreal.
 

HurstSoGood

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
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Dec 14, 2006
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OMG Pashall, then Konate (sp?). Its like they are possessed by Daryl Dawkins and Jerome Lane, respectively.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
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Dec 8, 2006
9,092
Duval
This is a man’s game. There will be some bruises to nurse on both teams.

And again, zebras interjecting themselves into a thoroughly entertaining game
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
11,742
Disappointing early slate - 30 min ago was a 50/50 shot of one 1 seed going down
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
20,484
NC
Syracuse not having any clue how to run offense against the 2-3 zone is so bizarre. They all stand around five feet behind the perimeter, nobody flashes or sets up shop in the hole at the free throw line, nothing.
 

LeftyTG

Member
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Jul 18, 2005
1,345
Austin
Syracuse not having any clue how to run offense against the 2-3 zone is so bizarre. They all stand around five feet behind the perimeter, nobody flashes or sets up shop in the hole at the free throw line, nothing.
you could have stopped at the bolded.

signed,

Syracuse superfan
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Dolezaj's foul trouble (two of them stupid fouls) is a huge problem.

He was solid in the middle. Moyer is clueless. And Brissett has been horrid today.
 

LeftyTG

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
1,345
Austin
hate on Syracuse all you want, but they are a tough out in the tournament.

Congrats to Duke, they were definitely the better team. Izzo could learn a thing or thirty from K on how to attack the zone.
 

The Filthy One

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Aug 11, 2005
3,451
Los Angeles
That was tough. Duke was clearly superior, but those missed free throws killed Cuse. Anyway, a Syracuse team I thought might have a losing season lasted until the last minute or so against a team with multiple first round picks. House money, as far as I'm concerned.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
37,055
Hingham, MA
Interesting that tomorrow’s games are at 2:20 and 5 given how the schedule was last weekend. I am surprised they aren’t at say 5:20 and 8
 

shawnrbu

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Jul 14, 2005
39,690
The Land of Fist Pumps
It's because CBS is carrying the games and will only preempt 60 Minutes for the Super Bowl. When TBS televises the Sunday Elite 8 games, the start times are later in the day. See 2016 Syracuse/Virginia and UNC/Notre Dame.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Thoughts from a frustrating Friday night without quoting half dozen previous posts:

* Refs in WVU game had to have a halftime conversation on how to keep Huggins from advancing. Miles 3rd and 4th fouls were laughable (may have been 2nd and 3rd), Carter's 3rd early in the 2nd there was literally zero contact so figure that one out then come back and see me, the double T on Konate was the final straw in giving the zebras any sort of benefit of the doubt. They all know a double T counts as a personal and would drastically affect the game.....nope, didn't matter cuz they exchanged harmless words while not involved in the play with zero physical confrontation. Even late a Nova defender didn't allow a WVU 3-point shooter to land as the shooter fell to the floor about 3 feet in front of the ref and Huggins. NOBODY gives officials the benefit of the doubt on missed calls more than I do as I recognize the difficulty officiating games at a higher level.......but these whistles when there is no contact, the double T, a zero-interpretation rule of allowing the shooter space to land don't fall into the category of speed and athleticism being much more difficult to officiate. I wouldn't be surprised if we found out years from now that something was up in this game. #donaghy

* WVU's style was its own worst enemy as I feared it would be against a great shooting team like Villanova. Nobody in the country gives up more open 3's than Huggins team "due to their style" and Nova made them pay by knocking down 13-24. This wasn't random as WVU ranked 317 out of 351 D-1 schools in Opponents 3-point shooting. Credit to Brunson and Nova for taking care of the ball committing 16 TO against WVU who were 5th in country at creating TO's at 16.5 per game. Aside from the officiating, this right here was the difference in the game.

* With the NBA expanded rosters and Brunson's dads NBA contacts (10-yr player, current assistant) he's surely going to stick around in the league or at least have multiple chances (see: Rivers, Pressey, Lucas III, Karl, etc). While he doesn't possess the handle/quickness of say a VanVleet what he can do is shoot the ball so he'll have plenty of opportunity to find a niche on someones second unit. Solid solid player.

* If I'm looking for a guy to play on the Celtics 2nd unit though give me some Konate and then give me some MORE Konate!! This physical beast from Mali began playing basketball 4-5 years ago and went from being unplayable last season to a guy who had to be on the floor at all times for WVU. I always speak about players landing on the right team, in the right system for their skillset but man.....is there a coach and system for a 260 lb athletic freak with zero background in the game to learn from than Bob Huggins? This is the very definition of landing in the right spot. The kid only knows one way to play the game now.

* I said this years ago and received push back for it......but you simply CANNOT combine a 30-second shot clock while allowing zone defense and expect to see a fluid basketball game. 10-15 years ago this would have been a complete disaster but even today with so many players on the floor having 3-point range to mask some of this ugliness that you'll see nearly everyone have with the Syracuse, Duke, Cincinnati, Virginia, etc variation of a zone. The offensive team doesn't begin their halfcourt set after a made basket until the clock is down to around 20-21 seconds and even less against zone pressure. Once the clock gets into single digits you enter panic-time where it becomes helter skeleter to get ANY shot off.......so due to the NCAA rules you have a fluid halfcourt offense able to run for roughly 9-12 seconds. Good luck with this being watchable OR effective. Frankly, I'm surprised college coaches even play man at all under these rules. Are these guys living in the past or what?

* College coaching is nothing like NBA coaching as these guys truly make a difference in their teams preparation and in-game adjustments. For years, I've had Bill Self, Rick Barnes, and Roy Williams among the worst in-game coaches I watch and last night nothing changed for me with Self. If not for some sketchy calls they may have blown a 15-point lead in the final minutes. Successful college coaches typically excel at either recruiting or in-game coaching......very few ever master both.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
I don't love zone defense but I don't understand the thought process that basically says it shouldn't be allowed. Duke and SU combined for 134 points last night. What's wrong with that? I mean Kansas St. and Kentucky put up 119 the other night. Low scoring games aren't necessarily bad games. Last night's game was a really good one.

Assuming Battle goes to the NBA but everyone else returns, SU will be terrific next year. For the first time in years they have a great recruiting class coming in. Dolezaj looked like he can really play (last six games he averaged 11+ points and nearly 5 rebounds on 74% shooting). The kid is a freshman who weighs 180 pounds. When he gets stronger and gets to 200 pounds he's going to be really good. Brissett has a bright future. Howard took a major leap forward this year. Their two bigs are solid in the middle. What SU needs is a post player - they haven't had one in a few years - but otherwise they're going to be very good.

Even though they play a zone. ;-)
 

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
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Dec 10, 2003
8,316
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Thoughts from a frustrating Friday night without quoting half dozen previous posts:

* Refs in WVU game had to have a halftime conversation on how to keep Huggins from advancing. Miles 3rd and 4th fouls were laughable (may have been 2nd and 3rd), Carter's 3rd early in the 2nd there was literally zero contact so figure that one out then come back and see me, the double T on Konate was the final straw in giving the zebras any sort of benefit of the doubt. They all know a double T counts as a personal and would drastically affect the game.....nope, didn't matter cuz they exchanged harmless words while not involved in the play with zero physical confrontation. Even late a Nova defender didn't allow a WVU 3-point shooter to land as the shooter fell to the floor about 3 feet in front of the ref and Huggins. NOBODY gives officials the benefit of the doubt on missed calls more than I do as I recognize the difficulty officiating games at a higher level.......but these whistles when there is no contact, the double T, a zero-interpretation rule of allowing the shooter space to land don't fall into the category of speed and athleticism being much more difficult to officiate. I wouldn't be surprised if we found out years from now that something was up in this game. #donaghy

* WVU's style was its own worst enemy as I feared it would be against a great shooting team like Villanova. Nobody in the country gives up more open 3's than Huggins team "due to their style" and Nova made them pay by knocking down 13-24. This wasn't random as WVU ranked 317 out of 351 D-1 schools in Opponents 3-point shooting. Credit to Brunson and Nova for taking care of the ball committing 16 TO against WVU who were 5th in country at creating TO's at 16.5 per game. Aside from the officiating, this right here was the difference in the game.

* With the NBA expanded rosters and Brunson's dads NBA contacts (10-yr player, current assistant) he's surely going to stick around in the league or at least have multiple chances (see: Rivers, Pressey, Lucas III, Karl, etc). While he doesn't possess the handle/quickness of say a VanVleet what he can do is shoot the ball so he'll have plenty of opportunity to find a niche on someones second unit. Solid solid player.

* If I'm looking for a guy to play on the Celtics 2nd unit though give me some Konate and then give me some MORE Konate!! This physical beast from Mali began playing basketball 4-5 years ago and went from being unplayable last season to a guy who had to be on the floor at all times for WVU. I always speak about players landing on the right team, in the right system for their skillset but man.....is there a coach and system for a 260 lb athletic freak with zero background in the game to learn from than Bob Huggins? This is the very definition of landing in the right spot. The kid only knows one way to play the game now.

* I said this years ago and received push back for it......but you simply CANNOT combine a 30-second shot clock while allowing zone defense and expect to see a fluid basketball game. 10-15 years ago this would have been a complete disaster but even today with so many players on the floor having 3-point range to mask some of this ugliness that you'll see nearly everyone have with the Syracuse, Duke, Cincinnati, Virginia, etc variation of a zone. The offensive team doesn't begin their halfcourt set after a made basket until the clock is down to around 20-21 seconds and even less against zone pressure. Once the clock gets into single digits you enter panic-time where it becomes helter skeleter to get ANY shot off.......so due to the NCAA rules you have a fluid halfcourt offense able to run for roughly 9-12 seconds. Good luck with this being watchable OR effective. Frankly, I'm surprised college coaches even play man at all under these rules. Are these guys living in the past or what?

* College coaching is nothing like NBA coaching as these guys truly make a difference in their teams preparation and in-game adjustments. For years, I've had Bill Self, Rick Barnes, and Roy Williams among the worst in-game coaches I watch and last night nothing changed for me with Self. If not for some sketchy calls they may have blown a 15-point lead in the final minutes. Successful college coaches typically excel at either recruiting or in-game coaching......very few ever master both.
Great post HRB. It’s rare I read the long ones, but that’s a nice read.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,112
Santa Monica
Thoughts from a frustrating Friday night without quoting half dozen previous posts:

* Refs in WVU game had to have a halftime conversation on how to keep Huggins from advancing. Miles 3rd and 4th fouls were laughable (may have been 2nd and 3rd), Carter's 3rd early in the 2nd there was literally zero contact so figure that one out then come back and see me, the double T on Konate was the final straw in giving the zebras any sort of benefit of the doubt. They all know a double T counts as a personal and would drastically affect the game.....nope, didn't matter cuz they exchanged harmless words while not involved in the play with zero physical confrontation. Even late a Nova defender didn't allow a WVU 3-point shooter to land as the shooter fell to the floor about 3 feet in front of the ref and Huggins. NOBODY gives officials the benefit of the doubt on missed calls more than I do as I recognize the difficulty officiating games at a higher level.......but these whistles when there is no contact, the double T, a zero-interpretation rule of allowing the shooter space to land don't fall into the category of speed and athleticism being much more difficult to officiate. I wouldn't be surprised if we found out years from now that something was up in this game. #donaghy

* WVU's style was its own worst enemy as I feared it would be against a great shooting team like Villanova. Nobody in the country gives up more open 3's than Huggins team "due to their style" and Nova made them pay by knocking down 13-24. This wasn't random as WVU ranked 317 out of 351 D-1 schools in Opponents 3-point shooting. Credit to Brunson and Nova for taking care of the ball committing 16 TO against WVU who were 5th in country at creating TO's at 16.5 per game. Aside from the officiating, this right here was the difference in the game.

* With the NBA expanded rosters and Brunson's dads NBA contacts (10-yr player, current assistant) he's surely going to stick around in the league or at least have multiple chances (see: Rivers, Pressey, Lucas III, Karl, etc). While he doesn't possess the handle/quickness of say a VanVleet what he can do is shoot the ball so he'll have plenty of opportunity to find a niche on someones second unit. Solid solid player.

* If I'm looking for a guy to play on the Celtics 2nd unit though give me some Konate and then give me some MORE Konate!! This physical beast from Mali began playing basketball 4-5 years ago and went from being unplayable last season to a guy who had to be on the floor at all times for WVU. I always speak about players landing on the right team, in the right system for their skillset but man.....is there a coach and system for a 260 lb athletic freak with zero background in the game to learn from than Bob Huggins? This is the very definition of landing in the right spot. The kid only knows one way to play the game now.

* I said this years ago and received push back for it......but you simply CANNOT combine a 30-second shot clock while allowing zone defense and expect to see a fluid basketball game. 10-15 years ago this would have been a complete disaster but even today with so many players on the floor having 3-point range to mask some of this ugliness that you'll see nearly everyone have with the Syracuse, Duke, Cincinnati, Virginia, etc variation of a zone. The offensive team doesn't begin their halfcourt set after a made basket until the clock is down to around 20-21 seconds and even less against zone pressure. Once the clock gets into single digits you enter panic-time where it becomes helter skeleter to get ANY shot off.......so due to the NCAA rules you have a fluid halfcourt offense able to run for roughly 9-12 seconds. Good luck with this being watchable OR effective. Frankly, I'm surprised college coaches even play man at all under these rules. Are these guys living in the past or what?

* College coaching is nothing like NBA coaching as these guys truly make a difference in their teams preparation and in-game adjustments. For years, I've had Bill Self, Rick Barnes, and Roy Williams among the worst in-game coaches I watch and last night nothing changed for me with Self. If not for some sketchy calls they may have blown a 15-point lead in the final minutes. Successful college coaches typically excel at either recruiting or in-game coaching......very few ever master both.
Excellent post.

You have nailed the benefit of a ZONE defense (it's rarely mentioned during broadcasts, most cite Syracuse length as the secret to its success). Coach K, after working with Boeheim in the Olympics is a convert. Of course, Mike has taken it up a notch by showing a little full-court press (ala Pitino) that slows the progression of the ball and immediately starts the shot clock. Some teams (Nova 2 seasons ago) have wisely rolled the inbounds pass after a made Syracuse basket so the shot clock doesn't start till the ball gets close to half court.

The reduction of the shot clock from 35 seconds to 30 seconds has also helped the effectiveness of the zone in recent seasons.
 
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Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,947
Is anyone else watching the DII National Championship game right now? It's pretty fucking awesome. Back and forth all day, no lead bigger than 6, I believe. #1 seed vs. a #3 seed. Few minutes left, and a one point game. Terrific basketball on both ends, and crowd is in a frenzy. Turn it on if you have a chance.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,947
Good job by the refs there. You can't call that there, and potentially end a great game on a questionable call.
 

Greg29fan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
20,484
NC
* College coaching is nothing like NBA coaching as these guys truly make a difference in their teams preparation and in-game adjustments. For years, I've had Bill Self, Rick Barnes, and Roy Williams among the worst in-game coaches I watch and last night nothing changed for me with Self. If not for some sketchy calls they may have blown a 15-point lead in the final minutes. Successful college coaches typically excel at either recruiting or in-game coaching......very few ever master both.
I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way to argue after winning three titles and going to two other national title games in 15 years that Roy Williams is among the worst in-game coaches you or anybody has seen.

Yes, he plays man defense 99.9% of the time and yes he lets the kids play through bad stretches rather than call timeouts most times, but I find it a complete non-starter that Roy or any coach could have that much tournament success and be deficient in-game. Just the fact that in the one-game scenario he's 28-0 in the round of 64 game is proof enough for me because that's tripped up Coach K, Tom Izzo, and many other top coaches more than once.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way to argue after winning three titles and going to two other national title games in 15 years that Roy Williams is among the worst in-game coaches you or anybody has seen.

Yes, he plays man defense 99.9% of the time and yes he lets the kids play through bad stretches rather than call timeouts most times, but I find it a complete non-starter that Roy or any coach could have that much tournament success and be deficient in-game. Just the fact that in the one-game scenario he's 28-0 in the round of 64 game is proof enough for me because that's tripped up Coach K, Tom Izzo, and many other top coaches more than once.
This is the opinion I've formed of Roy over the years and it is one that is shared by several who I know close to the program. When smart people openly mock a coach you begin paying attention.......this has been going on with Roy for many years now. You cannot deny the recruitment of great college players and the winning of games......however poor in-game decision making can be masked by talent and leadership by the players. He has two Top-20 wings coming in next year so his deficiencies will be masked again. As I said in my post, few master both recruiting along with the x's and o's.

Their 2nd round game is a perfect example of Roy at his worst. UNC was completely unprepared to play against Texas A & M on both ends of the floor, a team that struggles shooting the ball so he plays man for 40 minutes, gives them a 21-7 FTA advantage, has his offense woefully unprepared for A & M's defense, then fails to make the necessary halftime adjustments on the way to a 21-point loss. Kudos to Roy.


Great post HRB. It’s rare I read the long ones, but that’s a nice read.
Thank you. I really need to focus on avoiding the chat-like responses and put out more of a meaningful post from my heart like I used to do.