Come to think of it, Ainge has shown a really good ability to recognize guard talent in the draft and in general. Maybe from being one himself.
Did Smart just get Wally Pipp’d?That is one way to follow up a triple double.
He's probably really sorry now that he punched that picture frame.Did Smart just get Wally Pipp’d?
One must wonder if that picture frame will end up costing Smart millions now, especially given the difficulties in assessing his value.I hope it's not an either/or situation with him and Marcus but if some team makes a silly offer for Smart at least we're not held hostage.
That along with a confluence other events over the last few weeks has cost Marcus money. His attitude/effort has never been under question, but some of his decision making on/off the court has been sub-optimal. Trust that Brad/Danny/ownership will put all this into the calculus when handing out long/expensive contracts.One must wonder if that picture frame will end up costing Smart millions now, especially given the difficulties in assessing his value.
I think how Avery Bradley performs through the rest of the season will actually have a decent impact on Smart's value. We have some evidence that role players in Brad's system aren't worth as much in other organizations. Bradley is probably the closest comp to Marcus, with Marcus having an edge defensively and Bradley on O, and he didn't look like the same guy in Detroit. Add in Crowder, Evan Turner, and maybe IT (though not enough sample, yet) and I could see why teams might be hesitant to pick up yet another addition to that list at big money. If AB comes out and "lights the world" on fire with consistent, solid play after being traded, it may build some confidence that Marcus' contributions, beyond the stat-sheet, could translate elsewhere.Assume that both TR and MS were hitting the market right now. Who gets the bigger contract?
Good point, although that probably puts a "bench combo guard" ceiling on him.Agree with most of what you say but Rozier looks to need the ball in his hands to have any value. It's really going to be a problem for any team that wants him to start. So PHI would not be a good fit for him - while he stands in the corner and watches Simmons and Embiid play two-man games.
Also, as the game v GS showed, his size is an issue on defense. While he is a willing and tenacious defender, Curry just shot right over him.
I do think he can probably fake being a point guard to some extent on the right team. Think of Dee Brown - looked fine as a PG when he got to be on the floor with Bird, but after that, not so much. I think Rozier is kind of a similar case.Smart wasn't much of a PG when he first joined the league either so maybe Rozier can develop that part of his game a little more. If he could be relied upon to be the backup PG, he is the obvious choice over Smart. That's a big if, though. Chances are he's more like Avery Bradley.
Yes. I'm still a bit skeptical on Rozier, in the sense that he is a very streaky player. But if teams believe he will be consistently at the level he has been at over the past 2 games, then his days in Boston are numbered because he'll want to go somewhere and start. Which makes looking to keep the more affordable Smart as a key bench guy look better in comparison.One problem for the Cs: I would be shocked if TR signed anywhere to be a backup. Marcus might.
Are we really going to use Curry shooting over guards as a baseline for how well a player defends? I mean he dropped 49 with Kyrie on him most of the night too.Agree with most of what you say but Rozier looks to need the ball in his hands to have any value. It's really going to be a problem for any team that wants him to start. So PHI would not be a good fit for him - while he stands in the corner and watches Simmons and Embiid play two-man games.
Also, as the game v GS showed, his size is an issue on defense. While he is a willing and tenacious defender, Curry just shot right over him.
Smart will cost much more than Rozier next season, not more affordable. Ainge has a history of maintaining flexibility with his second unit guys while committing long-term to his core group of 3-4. I never viewed Smart as a part of that core....he's a second unit role player/20 mpg guy, these guys drop off trees without having to commit long term.Yes. I'm still a bit skeptical on Rozier, in the sense that he is a very streaky player. But if teams believe he will be consistently at the level he has been at over the past 2 games, then his days in Boston are numbered because he'll want to go somewhere and start. Which makes looking to keep the more affordable Smart as a key bench guy look better in comparison.
But two years out Smart might be more affordable, I think that is the point being made above. Of course the primary reason for that would be that he's not as good.Smart will cost much more than Rozier next season, not more affordable. Ainge has a history of maintaining flexibility with his second unit guys while committing long-term to his core group of 3-4. I never viewed Smart as a part of that core....he's a second unit role player/20 mpg guy, these guys drop off trees without having to commit long term.
This is where I come down. Rozier seems more likely to have teams think he can start and get paid like it. A lot depends on Smart's market this off-season, but I'm hoping we can sign Smart cheap and trade Rozier for either a mid-first or a younger, cheaper for longer, roleplayer.Assuming Kyrie is staying and Smart doesn't break the bank, I'd keep Smart and look to trade Rozier for a different asset.
If the 76ers offered the 18-19th pick would you do it? I'm not sure I would. With Hayward back and continued improvement/maturity from Brown/Tatum/Rozier this team will contend next season. We have plenty of picks in the pipeline. I'm not dealing Terry unless it is an immediate talent upgrade (IE he's part of a larger package for AD, Kawhi)This is where I come down. Rozier seems more likely to have teams think he can start and get paid like it. A lot depends on Smart's market this off-season, but I'm hoping we can sign Smart cheap and trade Rozier for either a mid-first or a younger, cheaper for longer, roleplayer.
In the offseason no but Ainge will be faced with the same situation next winter with Rozier's approaching RFA as to whether to shop him for a low #1 and if a team will pay that price. The market was completely dry in moving these guys for low #1's as the new CBA has now placed enormous value in rookie contract players in a teams rotation on the cheap for multiple years. So the question won't be would Ainge move him for a low first next winter as he tried to do with Smart, it is whether there is any market for these type players with teams now valuing low #1's so greatly now.If the 76ers offered the 18-19th pick would you do it? I'm not sure I would. With Hayward back and continued improvement/maturity from Brown/Tatum/Rozier this team will contend next season. We have plenty of picks in the pipeline. I'm not dealing Terry unless it is an immediate talent upgrade (IE he's part of a larger package for AD, Kawhi)
He's prime bait I agree. Ainge will have to go really cheap on his second unit which he's always done but ever moreso if we go so top-heavy with Davis, Hayward, Horford, and Kyrie. In this scenario we'd lose both Smart and Rozier and have to completely redo our second unit.Terry will be in the Davis trade. Brown/Rozier/Theis/Sac 2019/Bos 2019 and 2020.
Just fyi.
Oops, I forgot Al in there. He needs to go for salary match. So it would be Hayward, Kyrie, Davis, Tatum, and whatever else they can muster.He's prime bait I agree. Ainge will have to go really cheap on his second unit which he's always done but ever moreso if we go so top-heavy with Davis, Hayward, Horford, and Kyrie. In this scenario we'd lose both Smart and Rozier and have to completely redo our second unit.
Not necessarily unless Ainge wanted to remove Horford's large chunk from the books. There are two sign-n-trade options Ainge would appear to have this summer with the unique FA market available to Smart and Monroe where the Pelicans would be their greatest chance at a payday. Smart as part of a rebuild and Monroe in a large one-year guaranteed deal similar to ours with Amir while being a stopgap big until Boogie returns healthy.Oops, I forgot Al in there. He needs to go for salary match. So it would be Hayward, Kyrie, Davis, Tatum, and whatever else they can muster.
Probably can't use Monroe this way unless his market craters. Celtics can only sign him for a salary up to 6M, and in a sign and trade contract has to be at least three years long.Not necessarily unless Ainge wanted to remove Horford's large chunk from the books. There are two sign-n-trade options Ainge would appear to have this summer with the unique FA market available to Smart and Monroe where the Pelicans would be their greatest chance at a payday. Smart as part of a rebuild and Monroe in a large one-year guaranteed deal similar to ours with Amir while being a stopgap big until Boogie returns healthy.
Only the first year is required to be guaranteed in a sign-n-trade but you are correct in that the limitations to what we can offer would kill my idea.Probably can't use Monroe this way unless his market craters. Celtics can only sign him for a salary up to 6M, and in a sign and trade contract has to be at least three years long.
Monroe probably unwilling to sign a 3 year deal starting at 6M, whether it's fully guaranteed or not.
I'm aware, but would have to be a three year deal. He wouldn't sign a three year deal fully guaranteed, or just the first year guaranteed. It's bad for him either way. Locking himself in for short money for three years or worse, giving a team the option on him for that short money in year 2 and 3.Only the first year is required to be guaranteed in a sign-n-trade but you are correct in that the limitations to what we can offer would kill my idea.
Was it ever published what Monroe signed for? I remember that he agreed to $5 million, but then didn't sign for a week amid speculation that they might give him more.Probably can't use Monroe this way unless his market craters. Celtics can only sign him for a salary up to 6M, and in a sign and trade contract has to be at least three years long.
Monroe probably unwilling to sign a 3 year deal starting at 6M, whether it's fully guaranteed or not.
So you're saying that you're scared of the T-Ro price?This means he's probably going to cost too much for the Celtics to retain
I think you guys are severely underrating Rozier. He was closing out playoff games and making big plays in these games. How many teams had a Smart as their 3rd guard? For the majority Rozier began this year with the skillset of a 3rd while he's shown that he could be starting for some teams. His career path reminds me of Reggie Jackson's before finally getting a starting gig.I feel like he has moved himself, both in terms of the Celtics world and the rest of the NBA, from a 4th guard in a rotation on a playoff team to 3rd guard. His ability to shoot, rebound, and now distribute, plus his defensive tenacity makes him ideal as your first guard off the bench.
That said, a non-playoff team might see him (and thus pay him) as a starter. As they say, it only takes one.
Basically. I think he'll end up getting more than Smart and I'm not sure how deep the Celtics are willing to go into the luxury.So you're saying that you're scared of the T-Ro price?
Even if none of these knuckleheads will admit it, I appreciate it.So you're saying that you're scared of the T-Ro price?
So, if you're the Celtics do you 1) pay him and start him, 2) trade him to cash in on his value, or 3) play out the string and let him walk?I think you guys are severely underrating Rozier. He was closing out playoff games and making big plays in these games. How many teams had a Smart as their 3rd guard? For the majority Rozier began this year with the skillset of a 3rd while he's shown that he could be starting for some teams. His career path reminds me of Reggie Jackson's before finally getting a starting gig.
Bingo. No shade on Rozier, who I would keep in a vacuum, but there is a reason that with everyone healthy Smart is the ‘closer’ and Rozier is on the pine.Rozier does a lot of things well. Smart does one thing better than almost anyone.
You may in the vanguard of the TRo valuation.So you're saying that you're scared of the T-Ro price?
As much as I've been in the Rozier camp from early on we can't pay him long term with all the perimeter players ahead of him unless there is a role that justifies his salary.....which is consistent with my position on Smart as well who won't be a closer or getting the minutes to justify his next contract here once Hayward returns.So, if you're the Celtics do you 1) pay him and start him, 2) trade him to cash in on his value, or 3) play out the string and let him walk?
He can pull off the undersized 2-guard thing in a way that Bradley couldn't, but the Celtics are so deep at the wing with Brown, Hayward, Tatum already. On the other hand if they end up pulling off a Davis deal they may wind up thin at the wing.
Technically, once you are capped out (as the Celtics are), you can keep everybody on your current roster if you want and are okay blowing up your team salary.Question: is it possible to sign both Rozier and Smart and then trade one of them next year? I’m not familiar enough with the cap situation to know if that’s an option even if the price isn’t sustainable long term.
They can extend Rozier this fall, as they attempted to do with Smart last fall. But the extension acts as a sort of de facto one year no trade clause thanks to the poison pill provision.Question: is it possible to sign both Rozier and Smart and then trade one of them next year? I’m not familiar enough with the cap situation to know if that’s an option even if the price isn’t sustainable long term.