The Cavalier Train Wreck

The Social Chair

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I feel bad for everything that IT has gone through the last several months. But he is going to find himself in a tough position this summer looking for a deal.

The Cavs fans are booing him now and his quotes in the press aren't going to help the situation at all.

"If they're worried about my shot selection, they must not have seen me play the last few years," Thomas said. "That's all I can say about that. If somebody's worried about that, what did you trade me here for? To not shoot? To not find my rhythm? To not be Isaiah Thomas? I can't be anybody else. So whoever's saying that, I don't know what I'm here for if I'm not here to score the ball and make plays after being off seven months."

Thomas said there hasn't been any discussion of moving him to a backup role, calling the idea "disrespectful."
 

johnmd20

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IT's chance at a max deal is currently hovering around 0%. He'll still make a great amount of money and hopefully continue to have a solid career, but nobody can afford him for what he thinks he's worth.
 

cheech13

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IT didn't have the best locker room reputation in Sacramento or Phoenix either, so that Boston stay might have ended up being an anomaly.
 

Ed Hillel

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IT didn't have the best locker room reputation in Sacramento or Phoenix either, so that Boston stay might have ended up being an anomaly.
He made a number of comments here that weren’t exactly the most encouraging, too. The winning and Brad seemed to keep him on course most of the time, fortunately.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I wonder who gets paid more, Lou Williams or IT4. Similar players but last year this question would have been laughed at.
 

HomeRunBaker

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IT's chance at a max deal is currently hovering around 0%. He'll still make a great amount of money and hopefully continue to have a solid career, but nobody can afford him for what he thinks he's worth.
Isaiah is not going to get a lot of money from anyone IMO. One, the money isn't out there. Two, what money is out there isn't going to go to a miniature PG who can't defend a chair, lost his explosiveness, and is about to turn 30 which is the age when diminutive guards tend to nosedive.
 

Ed Hillel

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IT semi-whining again, after a win no less.
CLEVELAND -- Isaiah Thomas recorded a season-high seven assists in the Cleveland Cavaliers' 121-104 win over the Detroit Pistons on Sunday but did not play at all in the fourth quarter as the Cavs outscored the Detroit Pistons 31-17 in the final frame to pull away with the victory.

"I don't know. What do you want me to say?" Thomas said when asked about watching the end from the bench. "I'm just glad we won."
Thomas also had a back-and-forth with a reporter about his shot selection, which he referenced when asked about his approach to Sunday's game.

"Yeah, I changed it because they was mad at my shot selection," Thomas said sarcastically. "No, I just made the right play. That's all I did. I tried to get in the paint, be aggressive. Guys made shots, and that's just how I play. So, I mean, if there are two guys on me, I just try to find the open guy every time, and nine times out of 10, I try to make the right play, whether that's getting a ball to a teammate or me scoring, and guys knocked down shots, so they helped me out today."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22246427/as-cleveland-cavaliers-coach-tyronn-lue-adjusts-rotations-isaiah-thomas-sits-fourth-quarter-vs-detroit-pistons
 

InstaFace

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Isaiah is not going to get a lot of money from anyone IMO. One, the money isn't out there. Two, what money is out there isn't going to go to a miniature PG who can't defend a chair, lost his explosiveness, and is about to turn 30 which is the age when diminutive guards tend to nosedive.
Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but who's in the sample for truly diminutive guards who have a career past 30 to measure? Iverson, Chris Paul, and...? Jameer Nelson? JJ Barea?

If your statement is just based on anecdotal observation, I'll credit that because of how much you know about the NBA. But I'd be interested to read more if it were otherwise.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but who's in the sample for truly diminutive guards who have a career past 30 to measure? Iverson, Chris Paul, and...? Jameer Nelson? JJ Barea?

If your statement is just based on anecdotal observation, I'll credit that because of how much you know about the NBA. But I'd be interested to read more if it were otherwise.
Here's the list of guys 5'11 and under who averaged more than 12 points per game (arbitrary cut-off, sure, but you can play around with it) at age 30 or older, sorted by BPB. Not an encouraging list for the vertically challenged.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Cavaliers transition D is hilariously bad. Ish Smith and Stanley Johnson coast to coast and getting to the rim at will off both made and missed baskets.
 

cheech13

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Broken hand for Kevin Love. Out 6 to 8 weeks. Ouch. Nightmare season continues for the Cavs.
 

Sportsbstn

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IT is just an all around disaster right now. 6 turnovers, horrendous defense and poor shooting. On top of this he isn’t the most likable teammate in Cleveland.
 

benhogan

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Jae Crowder -16
IT -25
embedded Celtics

D Wade +15
Green +7

Someone needs to call a team meeting.
 
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Light-Tower-Power

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If this Cleveland team waltzes through the East in the playoffs again this season I'm not going to bother watching another NBA regular season. They look like a joke right now.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Broken hand for Kevin Love. Out 6 to 8 weeks. Ouch. Nightmare season continues for the Cavs.
If Love misses 8 weeks with a broken 5th metacarpal on his non-shooting hand he's an enormous pussy. That is a 6-weeks at the most injury and possibly closer to 5 with it being his left hand. Didn't Love already break his hand earlier in his career?
 

Sprowl

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Split off from the NBA game thread, because the Cavs have earned their own Schadenthreade.

***

Why would re-breaking the left hand make it any quicker to heal?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Glorious schadenfreude aside, I refuse to believe the Cavs won't find another level, warts and all, when the playoffs start until I see it.

I get that their defense is bad and difficult to fix. I also get that they miss Kyrie more than they may have thought. And I get that they are playing horribly of late. However this is simply premature grave dancing imho.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Split off from the NBA game thread, because the Cavs have earned their own Schadenthreade.

***

Why would re-breaking the left hand make it any quicker to heal?
It is his off hand and won't affect his shooting whereas if it were his right there would be a longer return due to needing full range of motion to return prior to begin shooting.
 

Sprowl

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It is his off hand and won't affect his shooting whereas if it were his right there would be a longer return due to needing full range of motion to return prior to begin shooting.
True, but why would his off-hand heal any more quickly than it did the first time around? If anything, he's a little older now and would be slower to mend. Six to eight weeks doesn't sound like an outrageous amount of time for a fracture to heal, just a fraction of a Jacoby.
 

HomeRunBaker

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True, but why would his off-hand heal any more quickly than it did the first time around? If anything, he's a little older now and would be slower to mend. Six to eight weeks doesn't sound like an outrageous amount of time for a fracture to heal, just a fraction of a Jacoby.
The healing time would be the same on his right and left hand. Love is right handed and only uses his left (injured) hand as a guide in shooting, he'll be able to shoot prior to his left hand being fully healed. If this were his right hand he wouldn't be able to begin shooting until fully healed and would need additional time to regain full strength and range of motion. I had this same non-displaced injury to my right (shooting) 5th metacarpal when I was 23. Exactly 5 weeks in a cast, another week of constant tennis ball work for strength along with range of motion exercises, and ready to begin shooting and playing in week 7. If this were to my left hand I would have been ready a week sooner.
 

Van Everyman

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I sort of hate watching IT implode. I get that he can’t keep his mouth shut. Yes he’s on our hated rival. And maybe last year was an anomaly. But I can’t quit the Little Guy.

Hoping he figures it out. Or plays so bad that he comes crawling back to Brad and is the sixth man he always should’ve been.
 

luckiestman

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I sort of hate watching IT implode. I get that he can’t keep his mouth shut. Yes he’s on our hated rival. And maybe last year was an anomaly. But I can’t quit the Little Guy.

Hoping he figures it out. Or plays so bad that he comes crawling back to Brad and is the sixth man he always should’ve been.

pre playoffs last year, he led his team to the 1 seed, was the king of the fourth, didn't know how severe his injury was(?) and his kid sister was still alive.

Contrast that to where he is right now. I'd be handling it a lot worse than he is.
 

ishmael

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pre playoffs last year, he led his team to the 1 seed, was the king of the fourth, didn't know how severe his injury was(?) and his kid sister was still alive.

Contrast that to where he is right now. I'd be handling it a lot worse than he is.
And went from at a minimum a 3 year, $90M type deal to potentially having to take a 1 year make-good type contract.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Ken Berger with a long form article on the state of the Cavs. Not pretty. None of the pieces in that organization fit, and that goes beyond the basketball court.

Two of the interesting items Berger describes is that it appears Dan Gilbert has taken over the personnel department at the Cavs and IT has developed a relationship with him. Suspect that Gilbert is going to bid against himself to keep IT in CLE.
 

TheoShmeo

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Ken Berger with a long form article on the state of the Cavs. Not pretty. None of the pieces in that organization fit, and that goes beyond the basketball court.

Two of the interesting items Berger describes is that it appears Dan Gilbert has taken over the personnel department at the Cavs and IT has developed a relationship with him. Suspect that Gilbert is going to bid against himself to keep IT in CLE.
Thank you for sharing that.

Four reactions:

- reading about the Cavs’ woes is delicious schadenfreude. True, they might get it together by playoff time, as they have in the past, but I will still enjoy the present immensely;

- that Crowder has been this bad and IT’s issues, particularly on D, have been so apparent, is a testimony to Brad’s coaching ability; we always knew that Thomas was weak on D and exacerbated the Celts’ challenge on the boards, but seeing those numbers only underscores the job Stephens did in covering his deficiencies and allowing him to flourish in Boston;

- kudos again to Danny on that trade; and

- the unstated premise — that LeBron is not equipped from a leadership standpoint to pull this team together and stem the discontent — is wonderful to behold for confirmed LeBron Haters such as me.
 

JCizzle

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I sort of hate watching IT implode. I get that he can’t keep his mouth shut. Yes he’s on our hated rival. And maybe last year was an anomaly. But I can’t quit the Little Guy.

Hoping he figures it out. Or plays so bad that he comes crawling back to Brad and is the sixth man he always should’ve been.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I wanted him to be old IT, but lose in game 7 of the ECF because of LeBron or something like that.
 

DJnVa

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True, but why would his off-hand heal any more quickly than it did the first time around? If anything, he's a little older now and would be slower to mend. Six to eight weeks doesn't sound like an outrageous amount of time for a fracture to heal, just a fraction of a Jacoby.
Pretty sure no one said it did. HRB was saying this should be a 6-8 week thing, and maybe less since it's his off hand. Then, in a different sentence, asked if this was hand he broke before. He didn't insinuate that it would heal quicker because it had been broken before, he was saying that Love should be able to get back quicker because it's his off hand.
 

chilidawg

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Thank you for sharing that.

Four reactions:

- reading about the Cavs’ woes is delicious schadenfreude. True, they might get it together by playoff time, as they have in the past, but I will still enjoy the present immensely;

- that Crowder has been this bad and IT’s issues, particularly on D, have been so apparent, is a testimony to Brad’s coaching ability; we always knew that Thomas was weak on D and exacerbated the Celts’ challenge on the boards, but seeing those numbers only underscores the job Stephens did in covering his deficiencies and allowing him to flourish in Boston;

- kudos again to Danny on that trade; and

- the unstated premise — that LeBron is not equipped from a leadership standpoint to pull this team together and stem the discontent — is wonderful to behold for confirmed LeBron Haters such as me.
It's only 11 games, but IT's DRPM is considerably better this year than last. Are we sure that his defense has been that much worse than last year, or is that just anecdotal evidence from the dysfunctional clubhouse looking for a scapegoat?
 

HomeRunBaker

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pre playoffs last year, he led his team to the 1 seed, was the king of the fourth, didn't know how severe his injury was(?) and his kid sister was still alive.

Contrast that to where he is right now. I'd be handling it a lot worse than he is.
File this under "Standard Life Variance." Things are never as good as they are or as bad as they feel. In the end, the kid will have ended up making over $30m in his career and a couple All-Star games.......not bad for a 60th pick.

The more he talks however the less of a favor he is doing himself. At some point soon he's going to find himself as a modern day Rashad McCants where nobody wants to deal with the BS to offer him any type of deal.
 

RedOctober3829

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Want to know how bad it's gotten in Cleveland? Stephen A.: "This is the best thing that could've happened to Kevin Love. Now he can get away from this soap opera and drama for a while. If I'm Kevin Love, this is heaven."
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's only 11 games, but IT's DRPM is considerably better this year than last. Are we sure that his defense has been that much worse than last year, or is that just anecdotal evidence from the dysfunctional clubhouse looking for a scapegoat?
I don't think it's just his defense but his offense is horrendous - which would be expected trying to come back from what he suffered - and the Cavs appear not to have a plan to get him into game shape other than throwing him to the Wolves. (Isn't that what the G-League is for?).

IT's on-off stats:
On
vs DET: 97.9 oRTG, 125.3 dRTG
This season: 103.1 oRTG, 118.2 dRTG

Off
vs. DET: 127.2 oRTG, 92.3 dRTG
This season: 110.9 oRTG, 108.6 dRTG

 

Reverend

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Totally agree. Just want to add that it's also a testimony to Lue's coaching ability.
I was thinking about this too.

When Jaylen’s friend committed suicide, I remember thinking that coachwise, he should be in great hands with Brad, and Brown’s later comments confirmed what a valuable resource Stevens was in this regard.

IT is older, yeah, but man... it’s not a stretch to think that IT may miss the Celtics in more ways than he fully realizes. I mean, it seems almost inarguable that it would be (was) a better place for him.
 

chilidawg

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I don't think it's just his defense but his offense is horrendous - which would be expected trying to come back from what he suffered - and the Cavs appear not to have a plan to get him into game shape other than throwing him to the Wolves. (Isn't that what the G-League is for?).

IT's on-off stats:
On
vs DET: 97.9 oRTG, 125.3 dRTG
This season: 103.1 oRTG, 118.2 dRTG

Off
vs. DET: 127.2 oRTG, 92.3 dRTG
This season: 110.9 oRTG, 108.6 dRTG

Bad on both ends in other words.
 

HomeRunBaker

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- that Crowder has been this bad and IT’s issues, particularly on D, have been so apparent, is a testimony to Brad’s coaching ability; we always knew that Thomas was weak on D and exacerbated the Celts’ challenge on the boards, but seeing those numbers only underscores the job Stephens did in covering his deficiencies and allowing him to flourish in Boston;
Putting the Stevens splooge aside for a moment it also magnifies the difference in having Kevin Love and JR Smith as your team defenders as opposed to Horford and Avery Bradley/Smart. Coaches coach but it is the players who must execute.
 

Reverend

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Putting the Stevens splooge aside for a moment it also magnifies the difference in having Kevin Love and JR Smith as your team defenders as opposed to Horford and Avery Bradley/Smart. Coaches coach but it is the players who must execute.
Can we have an Ainge splooge-fest then?
 

Sam Ray Not

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Cavs beat Heat, 91-89, so we know they can eke games out on their home floor on nights where their opponent shoots 3-28 from three.

IT 2-15 fg, 0-6 from 3 (partially redeemed by 9-9 from the stripe.)
 

Kliq

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LeBron shot 22 percent from three in January. Thompson should be wearing a hard hat if he’s crashing the offensive glass.