The Future of Football: NYTimes Links Big Tobacco with NFL Concussion Study

Myt1

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Boxing didn't have a weekly gambling community that infested every inch of every office in the country to the extent that it created a few billion dollar daily industry once daily games were offered and it's an individual sport. Football's sui generis.
 

mauf

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NFL careers are getting shorter and shorter. The average NFL career is now down to fewer than three years. That can't be good for the league.
I wonder how much of that change coincides with the new CBA, which purposely shifted money from young players to veterans. That's mitigated somewhat by rules that allow teams to disregard a portion of each veteran minimum contract for cap purposes, but given how valuable cost-controlled young players have become, I have to believe a lot of teams are leaning more toward first-or-second-year guys who might develop into something when they're filling out the last several spots on their roster.

I don't doubt that health concerns play a role as well. Not many players are walking away from starting gigs because of the health risks, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of guys who might be good enough to snag the 41st-53rd spot on the roster, but clearly aren't going to become more than that, decide the health risks aren't worth it anymore.
 

mauf

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Is Frank Upton Fred's evil twin? I wonder how good the rest of the fact-checking in that article is.

If giving 17 percent of your political contributions to the 10 percent or so of members who directly regulate your industry isn't a "good look," then pretty much every industry in America looks bad.
 

soxfan121

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I wonder how much of that change coincides with the new CBA, which purposely shifted money from young players to veterans. That's mitigated somewhat by rules that allow teams to disregard a portion of each veteran minimum contract for cap purposes, but given how valuable cost-controlled young players have become, I have to believe a lot of teams are leaning more toward first-or-second-year guys who might develop into something when they're filling out the last several spots on their roster.

I don't doubt that health concerns play a role as well. Not many players are walking away from starting gigs because of the health risks, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of guys who might be good enough to snag the 41st-53rd spot on the roster, but clearly aren't going to become more than that, decide the health risks aren't worth it anymore.
This is something I've spent a lot of time thinking - and writing - about. While only one guy to date has walked away from a starting gig, I think you are absolutely right that there's a hidden class of players who are not chasing the dream, and roster spots 41-53, in the same way.

But there is a real risk that putting hours of study and cross-checking into a prospect only to find out, that like Borland, the player has decided to pursue a career where the risk of brain damage is lower than 89%.
Further, to argue with myself, I think you're spot-on with the notion that the CBA has more to do with it than health risk. The veteran minimum benefit is a huge factor, extending careers and giving coaches "experienced" backups in those 41-53 slots, which they obviously prefer to a puppy who needs to be housebroken. The difference between (for example) Chris White and Ja'Gared Davis is pretty large, in terms of scheme knowledge and professionalism - which is not to imply Davis doesn't have those things, just that White knows what the coaches expect and how to do the job without as much attention as Davis or even a Matthew Wells type.

We will find out more in April/May. I guarantee there's one "day three" prospect who will inexplicably slide from "likely to the drafted" to "undrafted, unsigned" who has told teams in the process - "I'm going Borland". Who? Dunno. But there's one. I feel it in my bones.
 

ObstructedView

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ifmanis5

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I like football and would like to continue to watch it. However, few things would make me happier then to see Roger and his goon squad publicly shamed, humiliated, fired and exposed for the lying bully that he is on this issue. That article is going to set an agenda. Will other outlets (who are partners with the NFL) have the guts to run with it or will it be back to league mandated DFG talk and Pats bashing in a week?
 

joe dokes

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I think some sort of tipping point will come when a player of the more recent internet/fantasy/gambling is even easier/24-7 news cycle era shows up brain damaged. For the most part, the damaged players have been from the 70s and 80s or earlier. And the "I watched the AFL" demographic that winces at that (me) has had football fandom ingranied for so long that I can "look past that" (for lack of a better term) and keep watching. Sure, 25 year old me knew that Jim Otto had trouble walking in his 40s, 10 years after he retired. But that was reported within the "warrior" narrative, no questions asked.

But body and brain damage has moved to the mainstream discussion. I think its only a matter of time before the wincing is done by a much younger demographic. Looking at a guy whose future many here have wondered aloud about, Welker. A kid who was in prime superfandom age might have been 10-15y/o when Welker was a Patriot beast, a period which ran until 2012. In 10 years, that kid will be mid-late 20s. If Welker is revealed to be a mess, that 25-30 year old is much more likely to say "fuck this" than a 46-year old hearing about Gene Hickerson was in 2006.

It's the same words that MLB uses -- "losing the next generation of fans" -- but for entirely different reasons.
 

Van Everyman

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I said this on the DFG thread but it astounds me that Congress hasn't gotten into this. Yes, I know they're all paid off. And yes I know that like steroids "they have more important things to do."

But it's become incredibly clear over the last 5-7 years that the league had been covering this story up and slow walking the acknowledgement that they are responsible for the brain damage of hundreds of athletes for a generation. Obviously, this has huge, huge repercussions on the thousands of kids who play football in school. And, it is increasingly clear that the league is incapable of policing itself on this issue.

I know they're a bunch of clowns but it's more than appropriate for Congress to intervene. They have a responsibility to.
 

mauf

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I said this on the DFG thread but it astounds me that Congress hasn't gotten into this. Yes, I know they're all paid off. And yes I know that like steroids "they have more important things to do."

But it's become incredibly clear over the last 5-7 years that the league had been covering this story up and slow walking the acknowledgement that they are responsible for the brain damage of hundreds of athletes for a generation. Obviously, this has huge, huge repercussions on the thousands of kids who play football in school. And, it is increasingly clear that the league is incapable of policing itself on this issue.

I know they're a bunch of clowns but it's more than appropriate for Congress to intervene. They have a responsibility to.
CDC is already on the case, and has been for a while. A congressional clown show will likely do more harm than good. There are already social conservatives arguing that this is an attack by liberal elites on the Bible Belt's values; staging a political circus isn't exactly going to dispel that notion.
 

soxhop411

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Oh... Will you look at that.... When there is a story released that makes the NFL look bad, the NFL quickly fires up the spin machine and releases a statement... But they only do that when it suits them best


NFL Statement on New York Times Story


Today’s New York Times story on the National Football League is contradicted by clear facts that refute both the thesis of the story and each of its allegations. As the Times itself states: “The Times has found no direct evidence that the league took its strategy from Big Tobacco.” Despite that concession, the Times published pages of innuendo and speculation for a headline with no basis in fact.

The studies that are the focus of the Times’ story used data collected between 1996-2001. They were necessarily preliminary and acknowledged that much more research was needed. Since that time, the NFL has been on the forefront of promoting and funding independent research on these complex issues. Further, the data from the Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) Committee studies have not been used in any way by the current Head, Neck and Spine Committee in its research on player health and safety. All of the current policies relating to player medical care and the treatment of concussions have been carefully developed in conjunction with independent experts on our medical committees, the NFLPA, and leading bodies such as the CDC.

Since learning of the proposed story, the NFL provided the Times with more than 50 pages of information demonstrating the facts. The Times ignored the facts. So we present them here:

  • The Times claims that the concussion studies funded in part by NFL Charities purposely relied on faulty and incomplete concussion data. In fact, the MTBI studies published by the MTBI Committee are clear that the data set had limitations. Moreover, they expressly state that they were based on a data set that drew from two separate sources – the NFL injury surveillance system that collected simple data regarding concussions, and a set of forms that the teams were asked to provide to the League that provided additional factual detail about each such concussion. The studies never claimed to be based on every concussion that was reported or that occurred. Moreover, the fact that not all concussions were reported is consistent with the fact that reporting was strongly encouraged by the League but not mandated, as documents provided to the Times showed.
  • The story claims that the League relied on legal advice from Lorillard and the Tobacco Institute. In fact, neither then-NFL Commissioner, Mr. Tagliabue, the League nor its counsel ever solicited, reviewed, or relied on any advice from anyone at Lorillard or the Tobacco Institute regarding health issues.
  • The Times implies that there was a nefarious relationship between Joe Browne and Sam Chilcote. In fact, Joe Browne (then NFL SVP of Communications) built a personal relationship with Sam Chilcote while Mr. Chilcote was at the Distilled Spirits Council in the 1970s. The NFL and the Distilled Spirits Council jointly produced Public Service Announcements, and Mr. Browne and Mr. Chilcote were the point people for their respective organizations. Details of that work can be found on the DISCUS website. Mr. Browne and Mr. Chilcote remained friendly after Mr. Chilcote left DISCUS for the Tobacco Institute in 1981. Mr. Browne contacted Mr. Chilcote in 1982 for some advice as someone he knew in Washington, DC about a subject completely unrelated to tobacco, concussions, or any player-related or medical issue. We have seen no evidence – from the Times or otherwise – that demonstrated their relationship had anything to do with tobacco or NFL health and safety.
  • The Times insinuates that the NFL hired Dorothy Mitchell, an associate at the law firm Covington & Burling, because of her experience in tobacco litigation. Ms. Mitchell, who had represented the NFL in employment litigation, sought an in-house job with the NFL and was hired as a labor lawyer to handle Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) related grievances. She later served as a legal liaison with the MTBI Committee, and her role in that capacity was to prepare grant documents, provide intellectual property advice, ensure the privacy of player information, and communicate with the players’ union. Her experience as a young lawyer working on a tobacco case (among many other cases) was entirely unknown to the NFL personnel who hired and supervised her, as well as to members of the MTBI Committee, until they learned of this proposed story.
  • The Times asserts a connection between the League and the Tobacco Institute because both hired the Stanford Research Institute (SRI). SRI’s blue chip client list includes multiple U.S. government agencies, such as the Army Research Lab, the Department of Commerce, the Department of Defense, the Department of Education (including a study highlighted in the New York Times in 2009), the Department of Health & Human Services, the Department of Homeland Security, and the State Department, as well as prominent associations and foundations including the Alzheimer’s Association, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, and the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson’s Research. In fact, one of the research studies the Times alludes to was jointly commissioned by the NFL and the NFL Players Association. There is no evidence that SRI engaged in misleading or inappropriate research.
  • And finally, the story says that the NFL shared lobbyists with the Tobacco Institute. In fact, the League has never participated – either through its counsel of over 50 years, Covington & Burling, or otherwise – in any joint lobbying efforts with the Tobacco Institute.
The Times’ sensationalized story is further refuted by the NFL’s ongoing commitment on the issue of player health and safety – notably, to the support of research, including that of our most vocal critics, on the long-term effects of concussions in all sports, and to change our game in an effort to make the sport of football as safe as it can be. We have committed tens of millions of dollars to fund independent research, made 42 changes to our rulebook since 2002 to make the game safer, and have advanced concussion awareness and safer tackling at all levels of the sport. And we provide a host of benefit programs which, together with the proposed settlement of our players’ concussion litigation, will ensure that our retired players are properly cared for in the future.

Contact sports will never be concussion-free, but we are dedicated to caring for our players, not just throughout long careers but over the course of long lives.
https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/NFL-Statement-on-New-York-Times-Story-.aspx
 

nighthob

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I love the last line of that statement, categorically denying something they weren't charged with.
 

soxfan121

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I think some sort of tipping point will come when a player of the more recent internet/fantasy/gambling is even easier/24-7 news cycle era shows up brain damaged. For the most part, the damaged players have been from the 70s and 80s or earlier. And the "I watched the AFL" demographic that winces at that (me) has had football fandom ingranied for so long that I can "look past that" (for lack of a better term) and keep watching. Sure, 25 year old me knew that Jim Otto had trouble walking in his 40s, 10 years after he retired. But that was reported within the "warrior" narrative, no questions asked.

But body and brain damage has moved to the mainstream discussion. I think its only a matter of time before the wincing is done by a much younger demographic. Looking at a guy whose future many here have wondered aloud about, Welker. A kid who was in prime superfandom age might have been 10-15y/o when Welker was a Patriot beast, a period which ran until 2012. In 10 years, that kid will be mid-late 20s. If Welker is revealed to be a mess, that 25-30 year old is much more likely to say "fuck this" than a 46-year old hearing about Gene Hickerson was in 2006.

It's the same words that MLB uses -- "losing the next generation of fans" -- but for entirely different reasons.
This is a tremendous, smart post. Thanks Joe.
 

mauf

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It's not like the NFL hired Altria's former General Counsel or Head of Government Relations -- they hired lawyers and lobbyists in private practice who have worked for tobacco companies, and have also worked for other companies. Hiring them doesn't make you comparable to "Big Tobacco," and it's shabby journalism to suggest otherwise. Of course, shabby work is what I've come to expect from the Times, so that's no surprise. "Innuendo" is exactly the right word to describe it.

I just posted about how some social conservatives think scientific concerns about CTE and football are a liberal ruse to destroy Southern culture. I wonder where they get that idea.
 

soxhop411

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NFL memo to all owners/team presidents on Times concussion story:
:
Chief Executives
Club Presidents

From: Joe Lockhart
Jeffrey Pash

Date: March 24, 2016

Subject: Today’s New York Times Article Regarding Concussions

This morning's New York Times published a piece that was sharply critical of concussion-related research conducted almost two decades ago. The piece also purported to identify "a long relationship between the NFL and the tobacco industry" in a transparent effort to cast the league in a bad light.

The piece offers very little that is new concerning this long-ago research and reflects little more than the pre-determined views of its authors. When the Times contacted us about the piece, we provided extraordinary amounts of information that conclusively refuted every aspec‎t of the story. All of that material has been made public.

We also had outside counsel contact the Times by letter to underscore our concern about the fairness and accuracy of the piece.

With respect to the research, there are three key points:

First, as even the Times acknowledged, the research forms no part of the current work of the Head, Neck & Spine Committee. That committee resolved to set aside the prior work and start fresh.

Second, the Times does not identify a single policy that is based solely on that work. All of the current policies relating to player medical care and the treatment of concussions have been carefully developed in conjunction with independent experts on our medical committees, the NFLPA, and leading bodies such as the CDC.


Third, the research papers themselves make clear that not all concussions were included in the data set. While the point made in the article could hav‎e been more clearly stated in the papers themselves, there is no question that all clubs reported data, although not every club reported data for every season.

Although the Times was forced to concede that it 'has found no direct evidence that the league took its strategy from Big Tobacco,' it then proceeds to ladle speculation atop conjecture trying to build a case where -- by its own admission -- none exists. For example, the Times points to an unsolicited letter from a tobacco lawyer to Commissioner Tagliabue identifying two published federal court decisions, without stating -- as the Times knows -- that neither Commissioner Tagliabue nor our counsel responded to the letter or took any action as a result.

The story includes a dark reference to the NFL’s hiring of an unnamed "company whose client list included the Tobacco Institute to study player injuries." That company -- the Stanford Research Institute -- did player safety studies for both the NFL and NFLPA in the 1970s, and has a blue-chip client list that includes various agencies in the federal government, including the Department of Commerce and Department of Defense, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Alzheimer’s Association. The Times of course offers nothing to suggest that the work done by SRI was in any way compromised by anything it did for the tobacco industry or that the NFL sought to work with SRI for that reason.


Most outrageous is the attempted smear of Dorothy Mitchell, who worked here as a member of our legal staff for five years in the 1990s. Before joining our office, Ms. Mitchell was an associate at Covington & Burling, where, among a wide range of other matters, she worked on a piece of litigation for the Tobacco Institute. Her work on tobacco issues was unknown to the people who hired her at the NFL as well as to members of the MTBI Committee. Although a talented and diligent lawyer, she was a junior associate and performed the kinds of tasks typical of junior associates at large law firms. The Times' statement that Ms. Mitchell "defended the Tobacco Institute" is an extraordinary and deliberate overstatement of her involvement in that lawsuit.

We will continue to press both the Times and other media outlets to print facts, not innuendo and speculation. Today's piece, unfortunately, is very much on the latter side of that line.





------------------------------------------------------------------

The piece offers very little that is new concerning this long-ago research and reflects little more than the pre-determined views of its authors. When the Times contacted us about the piece, we provided extraordinary amounts of information that conclusively refuted every aspec‎t of the story. All of that material has been made public.

We also had outside counsel contact the Times by letter to underscore our concern about the fairness and accuracy of the piece.

mike freeman ‏@mikefreemanNFL 1m1 minute ago
NFL memo to all owners/team presidents on Times concussion story: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sofv8k

Where have I heard that before......
 
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djbayko

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Oh... Will you look at that.... When there is a story released that makes the NFL look bad, the NFL quickly fires up the spin machine and releases a statement... But they only do that when it suits them best


NFL Statement on New York Times Story




https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/NFL-Statement-on-New-York-Times-Story-.aspx
Pretty much everything the NFL says makes me sick. This statement is full of the type of double-speak we're sadly familiar with. Here is just one example:
And finally, the story says that the NFL shared lobbyists with the Tobacco Institute. In fact, the League has never participated — either through its counsel of over 50 years, Covington & Burling, or otherwise — in any joint lobbying efforts with the Tobacco Institute.
There is a difference between sharing some of the same lobbyists and coordinating joint lobbying efforts. It's a non-denial denial.

And right on cue, the NY Times points this out...

 
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soxhop411

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And the NYT with a response

NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 29m29 minutes ago
(1/8) Our next few tweets will address the @NFL's statement about the article (http://nyti.ms/1T7ZyfQ) we published Thursday morning ...

NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 25m25 minutes ago
(2/8) "The Times claims that the concussion studies ... purposely relied on faulty ..." Our article did not claim that.
NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 25m25 minutes ago
(3/8) "Studies never claimed to be based on every concussion that was reported ..." Studies and peer review statements did claim that.
NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 23m23 minutes ago
(4/8) "Story claims the league relied on legal advice from Lorillard and Tobacco Institute." Our article did not claim that.
NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 22m22 minutes ago
(5/8) "League has never participated in any joint lobbying efforts with Tobacco Institute." Our article did not claim that.

NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 21m21 minutes ago
(6/8) NFL says participation in study wasn't mandated. At least one of the papers said it was, in fact, mandated. http://nyti.ms/1T7ZyfQ

NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 18m18 minutes ago
(7/8) "Times insinuates NFL hired Mitchell ... because of experience in tobacco litigation." Article did not say how or why she was hired.

NYT Sports ‏@NYTSports 15m15 minutes ago
(8/8) NFL studies never mentioned that some teams didn't participate. Yet their numbers were included, producing lower concussion rates.

Now we wait for the NFL's response to the NYT response...... We are going to be here a while
 

Ed Hillel

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The Times piece left out Exponent when making the tobacco connections. It's quite interesting.
 

joe dokes

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I'd love to hear Belichick talk expansively about this. As we know, when he does talk deep about something, it's almost always interesting and enlightening. He frequently talks of the respect he has for the sacrifices that winning players make, and I'm certain that the physical sacrifices are high on his list. And while he loves the game, and probably isn't interested in biting the hand that feeds him, he's also capable of simultaneously entertaining opposing thoughts, a rarity among high-profile sports types.
 

AB in DC

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Never mind the link to tobacco, which honestly is very weak. But look at what it says about the concussion studies themselves:

The committee said it analyzed all concussions diagnosed by team medical staffs from 1996 through 2001 — 887 in all. Concussions were recorded by position, type of play, time missed, even the brand of helmet.

The committee’s statements emphasized the completeness of the data.

“It was understood that any player with a recognized symptom of head injury, no matter how minor, should be included in the study,” one paper said.

And in confidential peer-review documents, the committee wrote that “all NFL teams participated” and that “all players were therefore part of this study.”

Those statements are contradicted by the database.


The Times found that most teams failed to report all of their players’ concussions. Overall, at least 10 percent of head injuries diagnosed by team doctors were missing from the study, including two sustained by Jets receiver Wayne Chrebet, who retired several years later after more concussions. Pellman, the Jets’ physician, led the research and was the lead author on every paper.

According to the research papers, team physicians were to fill out forms specially designed for the studies to submit information about concussions — a system that went well beyond the league’s standard injury-reporting protocols. In one paper, the committee wrote, “The Commissioner of the NFL mandated all team physicians to complete and return forms whenever they examined a player with a head injury.”

But after The Times described how it had identified missing concussions, the NFL said this week that the studies, in fact, “never purported” to include all concussions.

...

The database does not include any concussions involving the Dallas Cowboys for all six seasons, including four to Aikman that were listed on the NFL’s official midweek injury reports or were widely reported in the news media. He and many other players were therefore not included when the committee analyzed the frequency and lasting effects of multiple concussions.

Several other teams have no concussions listed for years at a time. Yet the committee’s calculations did include hundreds of those teams’ games played during that period, which produced a lower overall concussion rate.
These discoveries raise new questions about the validity of the committee’s findings, published in 13 peer-reviewed articles and held up by the league as scientific evidence that brain injuries did not cause long-term harm to its players. It is also unclear why the omissions went unchallenged by league officials, by the epidemiologist whose job it was to ensure accurate data collection and by the editor of the medical journal that published the studies.
 

soxhop411

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More of the NFL response just released
he NFL released today the following response by JOE LOCKHART, NFL Executive Vice President—Communications, to the New York Times story:

Concussions and their potential long-term effects are a serious public health problem and an important issue facing football, many other sports and our military. For that reason, the NFL has been on the front lines supporting research, changing the rules of the sport, engaging in partnerships with the military, NCAA, CDC and others, advocating for sport safety legislation and promoting concussion awareness all in an effort to make sports safer. And we will not sit on the sidelines in the face of irresponsible reporting on these important issues.

Today’s New York Times story on the National Football League is contradicted by clear facts that refute both the thesis of the story and each of its allegations. As the Times itself states: “The Timeshas found no direct evidence that the league took its strategy from Big Tobacco.” Despite that concession, the paper published pages of false innuendo and sheer speculation based on a mere handful of anecdotal and cursory references, twisted and contorted out of context, from a smattering of documents out of millions found on the tobacco litigation website.

The studies that are the focus of the Times’ story used data collected between 1996 – 2001. These studies were necessarily preliminary and acknowledged that much more research was needed. Since that time, the NFL has been at the forefront of promoting and funding independent research on these complex issues. Further, the data from the Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) Committee studies have not been used in any way by the current Head, Neck and Spine Committee in its research on player health and safety. All current policies relating to player medical care and the treatment of concussions have been carefully developed in conjunction with independent experts on our medical committees, the NFLPA, and leading bodies such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Since being contacted about the story, the NFL provided the reporters with detailed factual evidence (running nearly 50 pages), substantively rebutting the issues raised by the paper’s reporters. That information—the facts as opposed to the reporters’ predetermined narrative—unequivocally refuted every accusation levied against the NFL and provided detailed, substantive responses to the reporters’ questions.

Because the Times chose to publish despite the facts, we present them here:

THE NFL, THROUGH ITS MTBI COMMITTEE, SUPPRESSED CONCUSSION DATA AND DISTORTED CONCUSSION RESEARCH AND STANDS BY THAT RESEARCH TODAY

Research “Allegation” 1: For the last 13 years, the League has relied on the MTBI Committee research.

The Facts Prove Otherwise: The data from the MTBI Committee studies have not been used in any way by the current Head, Neck and Spine Committee in its research on player health and safety. That information is not new; in fact, the New York Times reported extensively about it in 2010. All of the current policies relating to player medical care and the treatment of concussions have been carefully developed in conjunction with independent experts on our medical committees, the NFLPA, and leading bodies such as the CDC. The studies that are the focus of the Times’ story were necessarily preliminary and acknowledged that more research was necessary. Since that time, the NFL has been at the forefront of promoting and funding independent research on these complex issues.

Research “Allegation” 2: The League suppressed datamore than 100 documented concussions that took place in the NFL from 1996-2001and failed to disclose the incomplete nature of the data collection underlying the MTBI Committee’s studies.

The Facts Prove Otherwise: The Times misunderstood and misconstrued the studies and their methodology. Certain parts of the Committee’s published MTBI studies were based on a data set that drew from two separate sources—the NFL Injury Surveillance System that collected simple data regarding concussions, and a set of forms that the teams were asked to provide to the League that provided additional factual detail about each such concussion. All 30 clubs reported concussions between 1996 – 2001 through the NFL’s injury surveillance system, although one or more clubs did not report concussions in a particular season. The MTBI studies made clear that the data set they used comprised concussive events where both sets of information were provided because the information from the Injury Surveillance System alone was not sufficient to provide the information necessary for the study. As a result, the data set on which the MTBI studies were based was by definition smaller than the data set from the surveillance system alone because there were instances where a concussion event was reported through the surveillance system but the team did not provide the necessary initial and/or follow-up forms.

The studies themselves expressly noted the limitations in their work and never claimed to be based on every concussion that was reported or that occurred. The fact that not all concussions were reported is consistent with the fact that reporting was strongly encouraged by the League but not mandated, as the documents we provided to the Times showed. We nevertheless agree that these limitations could have been more clearly stated. But that alone does not give any credence to the Times’ claims.

And the final conclusion:
The facts, fairly read, are clear. The NFL is not the tobacco industry. It had no connection to the tobacco industry. Nor did it follow the tobacco industry playbook to conceal data to skew scientific research. The Times had the facts – now you do.

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/More-To-The-Story.aspx

more at the link
 

moly99

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I think some sort of tipping point will come when a player of the more recent internet/fantasy/gambling is even easier/24-7 news cycle era shows up brain damaged. For the most part, the damaged players have been from the 70s and 80s or earlier.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here, but there lots of players who fall in the draft each year due to concussion issues today. The turning point for me was Ryan Swope, a guy I really wanted for the Pats and should have been a low second round pick, who fell to the sixth round and "retired" as a rookie due to ongoing concussion issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Swope
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I hate the guys that turn every thread into deflategate bitching. But...

The turnaround time (and verocity) to dispute this "false information" relative to the deflated footballs is pretty fucking stark. Fuck this league.

Deflategate hijack complete.
 

joe dokes

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Perhaps I am misunderstanding you here, but there lots of players who fall in the draft each year due to concussion issues today. The turning point for me was Ryan Swope, a guy I really wanted for the Pats and should have been a low second round pick, who fell to the sixth round and "retired" as a rookie due to ongoing concussion issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Swope
You can argue that NFL players are trading money and fame for a little brain damage, but what about collegiate players who end up with brain damage?

I wasn't really arguing for anything. I'm just talking football (the future of) as a whole.

I was taking a guess at fan interest/disgust that might reach a level where it actually impacts the success of the NFL, because of the reletively recent evolution of fan exposure and experience, and increased damage awareness,. And I guessed that that might not happen until players who were stars within the last 10 years started showing up in the next 10 years as brain-broken, such that fans who are now half my age who have been fans for 30 or 40 fewer years than me might find it easier to say "I'm done" than me (or most fans who are closer to my age.)

Just curious, your post suggests that Swope's demise led you to stop watching/caring about pro football? Did I get that right? Stuff like that, and Borland might be the tip of some iceberg 15 years off that I'm talking about.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,073
Newton
I notice the below tweet is promoted by the NFL on my Twitter timeline:

@NFL: “The Times ignored the facts. So we present them here …’’ nfl.com/news/story/0ap…

It would appear by the response today that the league is scared shitless about this piece.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
I hate the guys that turn every thread into deflategate bitching. But...

The turnaround time (and verocity) to dispute this "false information" relative to the deflated footballs is pretty fucking stark. Fuck this league.

Deflategate hijack complete.
OK, but you are one of about 5 people in this forum with the credibility to make this claim. So...yeah. Thanks KFP. Good call.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
63,908
Rotten Apple
KFP said what I was thinking. When it suits their needs their PR machine is on full attack mode in a public way. When DFG happened and there was false and damaging info out there (info that they most likely leaked in the first place), they were not only silent but instructing the Pats to stay silent as well. They are a criminal organization.
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,913
More of the NFL response just released



And the final conclusion:

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/More-To-The-Story.aspx

more at the link
As the Times itself states: “The Times has found no direct evidence that the league took its strategy from Big Tobacco.” Despite that concession, the paper published pages of false innuendo and sheer speculation based on a mere handful of anecdotal and cursory references, twisted and contorted out of context, from a smattering of documents out of millions found
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's amazing! Cmon people!!

They might as well have copy pasted with find replace "wells report" ---> "NYT" the Wells report in context.
 
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Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,898
Here
Annnndddd Alakazaam:

Four members of Congress have asked the NFL for documents and information about why it tried to intervene in the selection of a Boston University researcher to lead a major study on football and brain disease, according to a letter obtained by Outside the Lines.

The letter, which was sent Wednesday to commissioner Roger Goodell, includes new information showing how the NFL engaged in a monthslong campaign to derail the selection of Dr. Robert Stern, a longtime critic, and replace him with researchers affiliated with the league.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/15059947/congress-members-ask-nfl-information-why-tried-intervene-government-research-project
 
Dec 21, 2015
1,410
The turnaround time (and verocity) to dispute this "false information" relative to the deflated footballs is pretty fucking stark. Fuck this league.
I was going to get on your case, but here a portmanteau of "velocity", "veracity" and "ferocity" really is incredibly appropriate. Hat tip to you sir.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,472
It wasn't a spelling error.

I was doing my best Asian impression.

Did that not come through?
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,073
Newton
"Efforts by outside entities to ... exercise influence over the selection of NIH research applicants are troubling, and we are committed to a full understanding of the sequence of events that led to this dispute," the legislators wrote. The letter was signed by Reps. Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J.; Gene Green, D-Texas; Diana DeGette, D-Colo.; and Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill. of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.
Those are all pretty by-the-books progressive Democrats. They're all in the minority, obviously, with limited power, but this is exactly why the NFL has been loading up with DC veterans. Game on.
 

Norm loves Vera

Joe wants Trump to burn
SoSH Member
Dec 25, 2003
5,439
Peace Dale, RI
“Goodell’s lying so frequently that I almost don’t think it matters anymore."

“I couldn’t imagine a more unethical behavior in the sports world,” said Nowinski, co-founder and president of the Concussion Legacy Foundation, which works in conjunction with Boston University researchers on chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), which has been detected in the brains of numerous dead football players."

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/sports/football/post-exclusive-cte-research-leader-calls-roger-goo/nqrqw/?icmp=pbp_internallink_referralbox_free-to-premium-referral
 

crystalline

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 12, 2009
5,771
JP
I just posted this in the DFG thread. The similarities in terms of flawed methodologies, conflicts of interest, and apparent confirmation bias are striking.
Sure.

The playbook for organizations with a lot of money to attack good science is well-known.

Tobacco is one example of attacking science. An older example is asbestos (funded by asbestos manufacturers, many of which are now bankrupt). A newer example is climate change (funded by energy companies).

All that's needed to prevent the public from taking action based on science is to introduce doubt. You don't have to disprove anything. As a company with financial risk from science, you give money to the minority scientists and broadcast their views. If there are really no studies casting doubt, you fund some.

Usually, you try not to fabricate data sets, because it's not really necessary. Oops, NFL.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,736
AZ
The tobacco stuff really seems to have gotten the league's attention. But I'm not sure why the Times chose that angle. It's a pretty weak connection. There's a nugget of a story there, but it seems like it needs more to be a full story.

It obscures the part that, to me, is clearest, and which I do not think the league is really disputing:

The league included games played in the data for teams that elected not to report concussions. And then the studies falsely represented the completeness of the data.

The league artificially increased the denominator and then suppressed the total of the numerator. There is no good way to spin this. You can claim that the teams were not required to include their results, and maybe you can even say that there is no reason to believe their results would have been statistically different from the teams that did report. But once you include the numbers in the denominator, it's a lie. Fine, the Cowboys don't want to report their concussions, just don't count their games in your data. But they had their cake and ate it too.

Even a layperson understands that to be scientific fraud. I am not sure why the story was cluttered with other stuff. It doesn't need to.

The league's new tactic for this stuff is pretty interesting. Claim that you're being accused of something you're not so you can shoot it down. It's a classic strawman tactic, but it's actually a twist on the classic strawman, allowing the league to turn themselves from bad guy to victim. They do it better than anyone. The classic example, before this, was when Goodell pounded the podium and said the league rejected in no uncertain terms the proposition that Tom Brady should not be suspended because he is a popular player. A proposition that literally nobody but him, right then, had advanced. I guess they liked that, because their statements are full of the very same technique, and I would imagine this will be at least moderately effective by those who don't want to look at anything but the surface.
 

moly99

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 28, 2007
939
Seattle
Just curious, your post suggests that Swope's demise led you to stop watching/caring about pro football? Did I get that right? Stuff like that, and Borland might be the tip of some iceberg 15 years off that I'm talking about.
I wouldn't say I've completely stopped caring. More that I don't want to care about it anymore.

Unfortunately FIFA is one of the few organizations in the world as F'ed up as the NFL, so it's taken me awhile to get into soccer. But living in Seattle now it's nice to have a local team to root for again. I can't bring myself to root for the Mariners or Seahawks.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
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Dec 22, 2002
23,043
The tobacco stuff really seems to have gotten the league's attention. But I'm not sure why the Times chose that angle. It's a pretty weak connection. There's a nugget of a story there, but it seems like it needs more to be a full story.
Guilt by association. I mean, sometimes it is just easier to compare X to Y in an unfavorable way to get people to see that X is bad.

I say this as someone who has written multiple articles about how evil and duplicitous the NFL is on the subject of brain injuries - articles that have been among the least read things posted to this forum. So...yeah. SoSHers - who tend to be more educated and engaged than average fans - by and large don't give a shit about this issue.

So...the Times linking one band of KNOWN evil fuckfaces (Big Tobacco) to another (the NFL) helps establish the NFL as evil fuckfaces with the average fan.

This place is WAY more aware of brain injury stuff than most every other fan forum in the world. I've researched this. It is KNOWN.

But weak connection or not...this linkage between evil organizations helps the Times (and all of us desperate for this issue to get more attention) shed more light on a subject that is mostly hidden or brushed aside.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,322
Hingham, MA
Key chart from Barnwell's article: the NFL showed owners the data of players missing per game by week from 2003-2007 seasons. When you just look at guys who were on the injury report and didn't play, the number of guys missing per week looks fairly flat throughout the season. But when you include the list of guys who are on IR and PUP as well (the middle column), the total rises each week throughout the season, more than doubling by the end of the year. Clearly more guys get injured the more games that get played.

The NFL is a borderline criminal organization, I feel filthy for being a consumer. I think I am actually looking forward to tuning out permanently when the Brady/BB era is over.

Players Missing Per Team By Week
2003-2007
w/o IR, PUP w/ IR, PUP IR/PUP Totals
1 2.36 4.05 1.69
2 2.81 4.67 1.86
3 2.95 4.94 1.99
4 3.25 5.43 2.18
5 3.28 5.58 2.30
6 3.15 5.53 2.38
7 3.15 5.83 2.68
8 3.22 6.07 2.85
9 3.16 6.26 3.10
10 3.26 6.58 3.31
11 2.85 6.49 3.64
12 2.90 6.75 3.85
13 2.83 6.94 4.11
14 2.79 7.21 4.41
15 2.95 7.68 4.73
16 2.98 7.99 5.01
17 3.45 8.75 5.30
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Guilt by association. I mean, sometimes it is just easier to compare X to Y in an unfavorable way to get people to see that X is bad.

I say this as someone who has written multiple articles about how evil and duplicitous the NFL is on the subject of brain injuries - articles that have been among the least read things posted to this forum. So...yeah. SoSHers - who tend to be more educated and engaged than average fans - by and large don't give a shit about this issue.

So...the Times linking one band of KNOWN evil fuckfaces (Big Tobacco) to another (the NFL) helps establish the NFL as evil fuckfaces with the average fan.

This place is WAY more aware of brain injury stuff than most every other fan forum in the world. I've researched this. It is KNOWN.

But weak connection or not...this linkage between evil organizations helps the Times (and all of us desperate for this issue to get more attention) shed more light on a subject that is mostly hidden or brushed aside.
This is exactly what the NYT is doing. And it's beneath them (or at least it's beneath what they put on airs of being).

I disagree that it helps the cause. Big Tobacco was sui generis -- selling a legal product that is more addictive than heroin and kills 400,000 Americans a year due to its intended use. Comparing pretty much anything to that is the hallmark of an unserious argument. The public intuitively knows this. So does the NFL, and they pounced. And now the public debate will focus on the merits of the analogy rather than the science, and what the NFL may have done to obstruct or cover it up.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,477
I don't know, do we really want the public's attention focused on science and details or more generally on "the NFL's shady business"?

I think the cat's out of the bag anyway. You have some politicians dipping their toes in the water. National writers like Barnwell piling on with more stuff the league would prefer forgotten. If there weren't so much for investigators to hang their hats on I'd be more worried about the Big Tobacco overreach. But you have manipulated research data, suppressing unfavorable scientists/science, hiding injury numbers (from the owners!) to mislead future CBA negotiations. They can't doublespeak their way out of all of it.
 
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