The Game Goat Thread: Wk 4 vs Panthers

SeoulSoxFan

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Welp. You can't have Brady magic if he can't get the ball back at the end of the game.

Two goats:
  1. Secondary: something is very, very wrong
  2. Zebras: the phantom call(s) on Gilmore really hurt
NE is 2-2 at this juncture. Problem is that the Jets and the Bills look better than expected, especially Buffalo.

Quick turnaround with the Thursday road game vs the Bucs.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Wasn't in game thread, and I'm not one to blame the refs, but they just took the game away from the Pats. The defense player well enough in the 4th quarter to steal a win.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Another huge problem with this D is not just yardage but the sheer lack of red zone defense. Not sure how it gets fixed other than to pin hopes on the usual BB late-season defensive improvements.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Wasn't in game thread, and I'm not one to blame the refs, but they just took the game away from the Pats. The defense player well enough in the 4th quarter to steal a win.
Agreed. That being said, this defense is not even remotely good. Too much good will in the bank from this team and coaching staff so I'm not panicking just yet.

Brady is fucking amazing. And that Dola can still walk, let alone catch a game tying TD, is a miracle.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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Gilmore. Yeah, that last penalty might've been a bit ticky tack, but holy shit. And yeah, I - completely wrong thus far - I thought the secondary would be a shut down unit, and they've mostly blown chunks.
 

H78

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Gilmore.

They win this game if he doesn't try to punch a guy's head off..

FOR THE SECOND TIME.

He reminds me of Cyrus Jones; may have a ton of talent, but will routinely prove to be one of the dumbest players on the field.

My brother in law, a Bills fan, told me all off-season that he couldn't believe the Pats gave him the money they did. Said he was always a liability on defense. He was spot on.
 

Stitch01

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Agreed. That being said, this defense is not even remotely good. Too much good will in the bank from this team and coaching staff so I'm not panicking just yet.

Brady is fucking amazing. And that Dola can still walk, let alone catch a game tying TD, is a miracle.
Yeah, its not close to good enough. As you point out, there's a track record here, but the fellowship of the miserable might be right for the first time in 17 years that the D makes this team a non contender. We'll see, disappointing first month obviously
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Unless the Colts lay an egg, NE has given up 128 points through 4 games, most in the league. That's a lot of pressure on the offense. This team could easily be 1-3 or even 0-4 without the GOAT.
 

Stitch01

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Gilmore's flag looked like a penalty by rule but certainly didn't look blatant. Did Fox ever show a replay with the receivers head snapping back?
 

H78

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The shame is the offense isn't the problem at all. Without Jules they put up 30 on a good defense. They're probably not one of the best 1-2 in the league, but they look top-5.

The defense is just mind-blowingly bad. I mean, just horrendous. It's amazing to watch just how bad they are week in and week out.

We're already 1/4 of the way through the season. How much more can we realistically expect them to improve?

Right now it sure feels like Kansas City and Houston, if Watson is real, are the class of the conference.
 

H78

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Gilmore's flag looked like a penalty by rule but certainly didn't look blatant. Did Fox ever show a replay with the receivers head snapping back?
Yes. The receiver's head nearly snapped off his shoulders.
 

Stitch01

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Yes. The receiver's head nearly snapped off his shoulders.
It didn't look that bad to me but I only saw the first replay. Was doing multiple things so didn't see if they showed a second replay.

Anyone else think it looked this bad?
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Yes. The receiver's head nearly snapped off his shoulders.
They only showed it from behind. Impossible to know how much play acting. Ridiculous call in that situation as it was away from the play and had no impact and was with only two minutes left.
 

E5 Yaz

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I love the concept of "penalties shouldn't be called away from the action."
 

Section15Box113

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It didn't look that bad to me but I only saw the first replay. Was doing multiple things so didn't see if they showed a second replay.

Anyone else think it looked this bad?
No. It clearly was pushed back and therefore was the correct call. But not even in the neighborhood of almost-snapping-his-head-off bad.
 

rodderick

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Aside from Flowers and Wise, not a single player on defense is performing adequately. So unless some of those guys who were good/great last year suddenly became mentally incapable of playing football, I'm going to say coaching is to blame for a good portion of their struggles.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Gilmore is a complete waste of money and the clearest indication that the Pats have screwed this year up beyond reasonable explanation. They could have used the Gilmore money to re-sign both Ryan and Butler. Instead they've gotten much worse on defense, have pissed off Butler, and have lost games due to Gilmore's stupid mistake.

Adalius Thomas was a genius signing compared to this disaster.
 

H78

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They only showed it from behind. Impossible to know how much play acting. Ridiculous call in that situation as it was away from the play and had no impact and was with only two minutes left.
Did you see his head? It went back quick and hard. I don't think the receiver was just acting that out.

Here's the other thing: do you guys think that, you know, maybe Gilmore has a reputation for swatting at guys' heads, and there have been enough complaints that the refs are looking for it?

It may not be right to target a player, but it's also not right for Gilmore to be knocking guys senseless when concussions/CTE is a massive focal point of the league and the many lawsuits they've been dealing with (from the PLAYERS).

You gotta think outside the "they're just trying to screw us!" box. They're not fucking around with headshots, and that's a GOOD thing. It's up to Gilmore to adjust.
 

Ed Hillel

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They win this game if he doesn't try to punch a guy's head off..
lol, his hand slipped and he made minor contact while jamming.

Meanwhile Butler leaves his man open all day, and has already been benched this season. Rowe was a disaster.

We're in Sosh hate for Hightower in his first two years territory.
 

Stitch01

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Gilmore is a complete waste of money and the clearest indication that the Pats have screwed this year up beyond reasonable explanation. They could have used the Gilmore money to re-sign both Ryan and Butler. Instead they've gotten much worse on defense, have pissed off Butler, and have lost games due to Gilmore's stupid mistake.

Adalius Thomas was a genius signing compared to this disaster.
Its been bad so far, but hard to write a signing off after four games IMHO.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Gilmore is a complete waste of money and the clearest indication that the Pats have screwed this year up beyond reasonable explanation. They could have used the Gilmore money to re-sign both Ryan and Butler. Instead they've gotten much worse on defense, have pissed off Butler, and have lost games due to Gilmore's stupid mistake.

Adalius Thomas was a genius signing compared to this disaster.
Yes, plenty of cash to do bolded and both were young enough. Not sure why they wanted to go another way.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Its been bad so far, but hard to write a signing off after four games IMHO.
I don't see anything that Gilmore does well that would justify the signing for any type of veteran money in the first place. He screws up zone assignments and he commits idiotic penalties. All those years in Buffalo have rotted his brain. He's unbelievably awful and he cost them the game today.
 

H78

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We can agree to disagree. The first hands to the face I thought was ticky tacky, but the second was the right call.
 

scottyno

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Gilmore is a complete waste of money and the clearest indication that the Pats have screwed this year up beyond reasonable explanation. They could have used the Gilmore money to re-sign both Ryan and Butler. Instead they've gotten much worse on defense, have pissed off Butler, and have lost games due to Gilmore's stupid mistake.

Adalius Thomas was a genius signing compared to this disaster.
Ryan got 10m a year, Gilmore got 13, they couldn't have signed both unless they sacrificed somewhere else
 

Ed Hillel

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I don't see anything that Gilmore does well that would justify the signing for any type of veteran money in the first place. He screws up zone assignments and he commits idiotic penalties. All those years in Buffalo have rotted his brain. He's unbelievably awful and he cost them the game today.
Same drive on 3rd down to end the game, Butler left his man completely uncovered on 3rd down. On Butler's INT, he fucked up and left his man uncovered for an easy TD, but Newton made a stupid decision. Then he had the burn where he let up an easy 80 yard TD, but Newton missed him.

Whatever it is, Patricia needs to adjust the scheme. If zone is confusing them, play more man. They have talent back there.
 

Stitch01

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I don't see anything that Gilmore does well that would justify the signing for any type of veteran money in the first place. He screws up zone assignments and he commits idiotic penalties. All those years in Buffalo have rotted his brain. He's unbelievably awful and he cost them the game today.
He didn't grade great last year either. Just hard to say he's the worst signing of the last 20 years four games in.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Same drive on 3rd down to end the game, Butler left his man completely uncovered on 3rd down. On Butler's INT, he fucked up and left his man uncovered for an easy TD, but Newton made a stupid decision.
I wasn't saying Butler was perfect; I saw mistakes from him today as well. But the penalty by Gilmore which gifted Carolina the GW drive was inexcusable. If he wasn't owed so much money that's a cutting-worthy offense.
 

Ed Hillel

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I wasn't saying Butler was perfect; I saw mistakes from him today as well. But the penalty by Gilmore which gifted Carolina the GW drive was inexcusable. If he wasn't owed so much money that's a cutting-worthy offense.
So why is that incidental contact penalty some horrible offense, while leaving your man uncovered 4 plays later isn't? At least one guy is competing with the receiver.

Butler has been largely awful. Not sure what's going on back there.
 

Foxy42

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Deep thoughts: Fuck Gilmore


Watching the game in person he was even worse than it would have seemed in tv. Routinely two steps behind even on plays where his guy was the third look
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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So why is that incidental contact penalty some horrible offense, while leaving your man uncovered 4 plays later isn't? At least one guy is competing with the receiver.
Because it shows a complete lack of game awareness on the part of Gilmore. Incidental, my ass; he got his hand square into the WR's face, for no good reason at all. It's stupid and careless. AND IT COST THEM THE GAME.
 

Ed Hillel

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Because it shows a complete lack of game awareness on the part of Gilmore. Incidental, my ass; he got his hand square into the WR's face, for no good reason at all. It's stupid and careless. AND IT COST THEM THE GAME.
So Gilmore's 3rd down cost them the game, while Butler's didn't? Ok.
 

H78

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lol, his hand slipped and he made minor contact while jamming.

Meanwhile Butler leaves his man open all day, and has already been benched this season. Rowe was a disaster.

We're in Sosh hate for Hightower in his first two years territory.
The difference is Hightower was on a rookie contract and new to the league, so it made sense to wait it out. Gilmore is a vet with the fourth-biggest cap hit on the team, hasn't showed any consistency, and single handily lost us the game today after a dumb penalty on a crucial third down stop.
 

j44thor

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Yes. The receiver's head nearly snapped off his shoulders.
yeah and receivers never embellish, there was no clear review of significant contact and it had zero impact on the play