When he was high he could have had a bad trip and hurt someone important, like a man or a dog.BigSoxFan said:Look, this offense was obviously 8 times more serious than punching out a woman in an elevator.
When he was high he could have had a bad trip and hurt someone important, like a man or a dog.BigSoxFan said:Look, this offense was obviously 8 times more serious than punching out a woman in an elevator.
"I'd like to apologize to my teammates, coaches, the Cleveland Browns organization and our fans," Gordon said in a statement released by the NFL Players Association. "I am very disappointed that the NFL and its hearing office didn't exercise better discretion and judgment in my case. I would like to sincerely thank the people who have been incredibly supportive of me during this challenging time, including my family, my agent, my union, my legal team, and the Cleveland Browns staff."
Stitch01 said:Players are idiots for putting themselves in a position where the NFL can mete out these punishments, but that doesn't make the punishment regime less idiotic.
soxfan121 said:Hopefully, Gordon gets the treatment he needs and can keep himself clean and in shape because he is a fantastic talent.
But that statement doesn't lead me to believe he understands that he has the problem and that he needs to take responsibility for it.
j44thor said:
Treatment he needs? He missed passing the test by first the order of testing and second by an amount so small he would have passed a federal drug test to hold office. It isn't like he was high as a kite while taking the test. The DUI was also extremely close to the legal limit which is absurdly low. You could probably arrest half the people driving home from dinner between 8-11PM on any given Friday/Saturday night for failing a .08 limit at a .09.
Sure it is on him for failing the tests but when you pass 70 and 1/2 and fail the second by that small an amount I'm not sure it screams rehab.
mwonow said:
True. But when you are on track to make $Ms and put yourself in a position to lose it, it screams "stupid"
j44thor said:
Treatment he needs? He missed passing the test by first the order of testing and second by an amount so small he would have passed a federal drug test to hold office. It isn't like he was high as a kite while taking the test. The DUI was also extremely close to the legal limit which is absurdly low. You could probably arrest half the people driving home from dinner between 8-11PM on any given Friday/Saturday night for failing a .08 limit at a .09.
Sure it is on him for failing the tests but when you pass 70 and 1/2 and fail the second by that small an amount I'm not sure it screams rehab.
soxfan121 said:
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test in 2011 while enrolled at Duke. He was suspended from the team and transferred.
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test at some point in 2012, causing him to be enrolled in the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy and its attendant guidelines for behavior.
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test in June of 2013, earning him a two-game suspension under the Policy.
Josh Gordon flunked a drug test in the spring of 2014, earning him an automatic year-long suspension under the Policy.
Josh Gordon was arrested for DUI in July of 2014, while his appeal of said suspension was pending.
That's FIVE serious incidents involving substance abuse in three years. After each one, Gordon was disciplined and given another chance. And FIVE times, he failed to behave in the way proscribed by the NFL & NFLPA's collectively bargained rules.
At the very least, Josh Gordon needs help making better decisions. But since every single one of these FIVE incidents involves substance use of some sort, I think that in order for Josh Gordon to have a chance of returning to the NFL, he needs to spend lots of time in "treatment". Maybe with someone like John Lucas, who has had lots of success (and failure) helping addicts in the sports world.
And on a personal note, I find your blithe acceptance of drunk driving to be distasteful. I also think you vastly exaggerate the number of people who stupidly and callously get behind the wheel and drive drunk. While I know that unfortunately many people do choose poorly and drive under the influence, if they get stopped and arrested for being over the legal limit and behind the wheel, they deserve to be punished, harshly. Far too many people have lost loved ones to drunk driving for me to let that statement pass without comment. YMMV and I'm sure we could have a thoughtful, productive discussion on this in V&N if you would like.
Shelterdog said:
While the details are pretty sparse I'm not sure if any of them qualify as "serious" other than for the fact that he's in a weird profession where he gets tested and can have serious adverse career consequences for smoking weed.
Silverdude2167 said:When he was high he could have had a bad trip and hurt someone important, like a man or a dog.
Well then I'm glad you guys are not running the team. You understand the stupidity of the failed tests while he was in the NFL?Papelbon said:I disagree with your assertion. I think plenty here would trade for him if there wasn't another weed suspension hanging over his head. Plenty were willing last season even before this one with the prospect of losing a full season for what seemed like a foregone conclusion.
Deathofthebambino said:Stupid archaic nonsense. Yeah, they are unrelated, but Ray Rice getting two games to Gordon's 16 is just a PR disaster for the NFL, and rightly so. I can't wait for this country, and its professional sports leagues to finally do away with this completely political and otherwise, ancient view of marijuana. So fucking terrible. Ok, Josh Gordon is stupid for getting caught again and all that, and people don't have to sympathize with him, but if it weren't for these idiotic rules and a 19th century worldview shared by folks who are completely out of touch with weed and it's actual societal impact, he wouldn't be in a position to have to worry about not making these stupid choices.
The DUI is another story. IMO, that punishment should be severe. I have way, way less sympathy for him in that regard, and most athletes for that matter, and it doesn't matter to me if he blew a .09 or a .99. He's got millions of dollars, and could literally have a driver at his beck and call at all times. Or, he could press a couple of buttons on his phone and have someone pick him up from Uber or another app, or you know, call a fucking cab or a friend...Most of these guys should just put something on their cars that doesn't allow them to be used after say, 8:00 p.m. and be done with it. So fine, suspend him for the DUI, but the weed, uggh, it drives me crazy.
You may be thinking on the NBA where you get a set number per year after which you know you won't get tested until the next testing period.dcmissle said:Well then I'm glad you guys are not running the team. You understand the stupidity of the failed tests while he was in the NFL?
There is a fairly narrow time frame during which players are tested. The players generally know when this is, and that once cleared, they are essentially free to smoke all the weed they please until the next annual testing period rolls around.
This is a drug test in name only. It's really a moron test, and/or a test whether you are a hopelessly addicted (assuming one can be addicted to weed). He failed three times.
You are correct. That was my hypothetical.Papelbon said:You're hypothetical said if there was no suspension for pot. In that scenario he would be available.
As to your question here Brandon Spikes, Brandon Bolden, Brandon Browner, Jermaine Cunnigham off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find more.
Maybe we should just avoid guys named Brandon.
Too subtle sarcasm on my end.Papelbon's Poutine said:
How does it show his intolerance? He played four more years for the Pats after his pot suspension.
Ty Law also got caught with X at the friggin border and played another 5 years in NE after that.
Yeah. And his lawyers argued that the most recent failure was caused by second-hand smoke. Then came the DUI.Papelbon's Poutine said:No, again, he was already on stage 3 and was there because of codeine from cough syrup. And it's not an annual test you know is coming. That's the nBA.
And if Fred Davis and Tannard Jackson were worth a shit they would have jobs. They are not out of a job because of weed. They're out of a job because they weren't good players.
Come on man. In a league where contracts aren't guaranteed any team would take a chance on Gordon for the right price. The guy is a legit top 5 WR at 23 yo. You don't give up a 1st and a huge contract for him but he's worth taking a chance on if you're not giving up a ton to acquire and you protect yourself with the contract.
Yes. The arrest alone shows more shitty judgment.Papelbon's Poutine said:The one he hasn't been convicted of yet?
Papelbon's Poutine said:Then please explain what that has to do with him having a job in the NFL.
soxfan121 said:
PP, I truly understand your point. And I sympathize with Rev's point up thread.
But Josh Gordon does not have a job in the NFL BECAUSE he repeatedly made bad decisions. He chose to use something that resulted in a first flunked test. He chose to use a codeine cough syrup. He chose to smoke weed. He chose to be in a car with other people smoking weed. He chose to drive when he had been using alcohol.
These were his choices and they were bad choices.
It is why I think he needs treatment. This is not a guy who makes good decisions about how to behave off the field. Despite having had MANY people (his agent, his union rep, his coaches, his teammates) who have tried to explain what he can and cannot do if he wants to play in the NFL.
You are probably right that someone would trade for him tomorrow, even with the looming suspension (this discussion of "what if he didn't" is stupid and pointless - he has a suspension, let's stay with that). But at this point, it is far more likely he never plays another down in the NFL because he keeps making bad decisions.
This is not about weed. It is about bad decisions. Repeated bad decisions.
Please, if you want to make the case that the NFL's policy on weed use is stupid, do so. But acknowledge that Gordon was NOT suspended for "weed". Gordon was suspended for repeatedly making the same bad decisions, while knowing the consequences. That's a problem.
dcmissle said:What he probably won't be is traded unless someone is bold enough to offer a first round pick.
His suspension means that although Gordon is banned from team facilities, he has access to all the assistance the NFL offers in this area, and he remains subject to random testing.
If he passes those tests and demonstrates progress, he can petition for reinstatement and certainly would be. In that event, I can't see the Browns trading him.
If he messes up again, he won't reinstated anytime soon. We will be then where we are now, except worse because there will be another incident. And in that event, nobody will be interested, just as nobody is interested now.
So it's entirely in his hands.
I don't see the DUI factoring in much one way or another in terms of lengthening the discipline, so long as he gets with the program. If he is acquitted, obviously that works in his favor. But even if he is convicted, I don't see the NFL piling on if he demonstrates progress.
This can be overcome. Chris Carter overcame cocaine and booze after Buddy Ryan cut him.
Perhaps so. But if so, nobody seems to be offering it.Shelterdog said:
Cleveland would take a bag of nickels for him at this point.
Hard to say what the Browns would take. He's a high-risk proven talent, I dont think they're trading him for a 6th rounder or something like that.Shelterdog said:
Cleveland would take a bag of nickels for him at this point.
Stitch01 said:Hard to say what the Browns would take. He's a high-risk proven talent, I dont think they're trading him for a 6th rounder or something like that.
As stupid as the policy is, dcmissle has a point about it being a moron test. I am glad that the current Patriot recreational drug users are smarter than Josh Gordon about how they handle their business.
I don't think Cleveland would be or should be in any hurry to get rid of him. Gordon makes peanuts (cap # is about $1.5 MM the next two seasons) and is one of the best players in the NFL when he's on the field. Why jettison him for pennies (or nickels) on the dollar?Shelterdog said:
While I was mostly trying to make a nickel bag joke, I think they'd take more than a sixth but a lot less than a first. Maybe a 2015 fifth and a 2016 pick conditioned on how many games he plays in 2015.
Yes. They'll get nickeled and dimed on the cost. He's boom or bust in all likelihood. Might as well bet on the boom.Super Nomario said:I don't think Cleveland would be or should be in any hurry to get rid of him. Gordon makes peanuts (cap # is about $1.5 MM the next two seasons) and is one of the best players in the NFL when he's on the field. Why jettison him for pennies (or nickels) on the dollar?
If you want to argue that no one else would give up more than a 5th + conditional, I buy that, but I'm not sure why the Browns would be interested unless there's significant return (maybe a second?). A fifth-round pick has a very small chance of panning out; even if you think Gordon's chances of an NFL future are similarly small, he's got tremendous upside at least.
I was responding to Shelter's post that he could be had for a bag of nickels. I don't think so, but If that were the case, it would likely be known.Papelbon said:You've seen a lot of articles talking about the Browns shopping him recently and not getting much for offers huh?
I don't even know what you're talking about in half your posts in this thread. Do you?
The Browns don't seem to be run like a Swiss watch.Both Gordon and rookie Johnny Manziel were absent from the Browns' walk-through Saturday morning, and the team had trouble locating them, a source close to the team told ESPN.com's Pat McManamon.
Not only wouldn't Manziel think he didn't have to be at practice.....by league rules he's not allowed to practice. Well done trying to create a story Disney.DrewDawg said:Manziel is on IR--he probably didn't think he had to be there.