The Nation's Tears: Volume II

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snowmanny

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Super Nomario said:
I agree with all of this. Amy Trask is awesome and her book is great and she's still bitter about the Tuck Rule.

The Raiders Super Bowl loss was the year after, so it's not like the snow game ended their run. It's just easier for Oakland fans to pretend they would have easily won the games in the next two rounds than that they should have won the Super Bowl they lost by 27.

As a Patriots fan, I'm kind of annoyed that the game is remembered as the Tuck Rule game and not the Game-Where-Adam-Vinatieri-Hit-the-Most-Insane-Kick ever. My reaction after they reversed the fumble was, "Nice break for the Pats, but it doesn't matter because they're never going to hit this field goal anyway."
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You're correct. But I'd forgotten until recently that the second most insane kick ever was Vinatieri in the 2003 playoffs against Tennessee. It was cold, something like negative 1000 degrees wind chill, and Vinatieri had had a 42 yard miss and Gary Anderson had had a 31 yard attempt blocked by the time they sent out Vinatieri with four minutes left and the score tied. He hit a 46 yard FG with essentially the same flat trajectory as the Snow Bowl game tying FG, which makes sense since it's hard to loft a block of ice with a frozen foot.
 
tims4wins

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snowmanny said:
You're correct. But I'd forgotten until recently that the second most insane kick ever was Vinatieri in the 2003 playoffs against Tennessee. It was cold, something like negative 1000 degrees wind chill, and Vinatieri had had a 42 yard miss and Gary Anderson had had a 31 yard attempt blocked by the time they sent out Vinatieri with four minutes left and the score tied. He hit a 46 yard FG with essentially the same flat trajectory as the Snow Bowl game tying FG, which makes sense since it's hard to loft a block of ice with a frozen foot.
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Yeah I was there and a) it was fucking cold and b) what a kick
 
Old Fart Tree

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drleather2001 said:
Brady's broken ankle had more to do with the loss than anything else. He's not the most mobile guy on the best of days, but his ability to move around in the pocket has mitigated that. His high ankle sprain made him a statue.
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That's what I've always thought. Three weeks earlier they torched that D for like 35 points. Then he hurts his ankle (and granted his line plays way worse, and the giants much better) and they score 14.
 
Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Old Fart Tree said:
That's what I've always thought. Three weeks earlier they torched that D for like 35 points. Then he hurts his ankle (and granted his line plays way worse, and the giants much better) and they score 14.
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Mankins was the biggest reason they lost both Giants SBs. He had a great career except for two games, and those two games were those two SBs. You cannot get beaten up the middle as badly as he did in those games and expect to win anything. Tuck and Osi completely dominated him.
 
tims4wins

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Mankins was the biggest reason they lost both Giants SBs. He had a great career except for two games, and those two games were those two SBs. You cannot get beaten up the middle as badly as he did in those games and expect to win anything. Tuck and Osi completely dominated him.
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Both fitting and ironic that they won it all the year before he arrived and the year after he left
 
Leather

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Mankins was playing on a torn ACL in the Giants Bowl II.
 
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Yes I know, and he gets something of a pass for that. But if he was injured to the point where he was getting destroyed every play then he should have gotten his ass off the field.

And he was healthy for the first one though.
 
rodderick

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Yes I know, and he gets something of a pass for that. But if he was injured to the point where he was getting destroyed every play then he should have gotten his ass off the field.

And he was healthy for the first one though.
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He also tore his ACL in the first game of the 2011 season against Miami. Mankins was a warrior, but if he was able to play 18 games at a pretty high level with that injury, I don't know how much of a pass I'm willing to give him for shitting the bed on the 19th one.
 
Blue Monkey

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Can someone explain to me why "The Game That Shall Not Be Named" is referred to as "The Scottish Game"? I've seen that referenced on here a handful of times. I'm missing the reference.
 
DourDoerr

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It's a superstition in the theatrical world that saying "Macbeth" in a theatre will bring bad luck, so actors only refer to it as "The Scottish Play."
 
TheoShmeo

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This is the just the annual story about Mangini regretting his estrangement from Bill over SpyGate.

Poor Eric!

Someone send him a teddy bear. Or a box of chocolates.

From a quick google search...

2012:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/01/eric-mangini-regrets-turning-in-the-patriots-over-spygate/

2016:

http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/9/28/13088142/eric-mangini-spygate-had-no-value-destroyed-relationship-with-belichick-jerod-mayo

2011:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/6966406/eric-mangini-regret-spygate-role-alienated-bill-belichick
 
PedroKsBambino

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TheoShmeo said:
This is the just the annual story about Mangini regretting his estrangement from Bill over SpyGate.

Poor Eric!

Someone send him a teddy bear. Or a box of chocolates.

From a quick google search...

2012:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/01/eric-mangini-regrets-turning-in-the-patriots-over-spygate/

2016:

http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/9/28/13088142/eric-mangini-spygate-had-no-value-destroyed-relationship-with-belichick-jerod-mayo

2011:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/6966406/eric-mangini-regret-spygate-role-alienated-bill-belichick
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Well done.

There is a huge cost for not being trusted in a fraternity as small as NFL coaches...
 
InstaFace

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Mangini was an NFL head coach for two different franchises, and the Browns hired him after his involvement with Camera-Placement-Gate was well known. He was then a defensive coach (and coordinator) for the 49ers for 3 seasons. However, he's now "out of coaching", meaning he either does not desire (unlikely) or more likely has been unable to secure a job at the NFL or even at the college level for the last 3 years. I find it hard to believe he's just retiring, which means he's either had totally unrealistic expectations of what job he deserves for several years running, people just don't find him all that compelling a candidate... or they want to avoid doing anything that would upset the broader coaching fraternity and Belichick in particular. I kinda enjoy the notion that the latter possibility might have more-than-zero validity.

His middle son's middle name is William, supposedly after Bill Belichick. Bummer for that kid.
 
Bergs

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Is he not on ESPN anymore? I thought he was pretty good.
 
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InstaFace said:
Mangini was an NFL head coach for two different franchises, and the Browns hired him after his involvement with Camera-Placement-Gate was well known. He was then a defensive coach (and coordinator) for the 49ers for 3 seasons. However, he's now "out of coaching", meaning he either does not desire (unlikely) or more likely has been unable to secure a job at the NFL or even at the college level for the last 3 years. I find it hard to believe he's just retiring, which means he's either had totally unrealistic expectations of what job he deserves for several years running, people just don't find him all that compelling a candidate... or they want to avoid doing anything that would upset the broader coaching fraternity and Belichick in particular. I kinda enjoy the notion that the latter possibility might have more-than-zero validity.

His middle son's middle name is William, supposedly after Bill Belichick. Bummer for that kid.
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Catherine says he's been holding out for a management position.
 
uncannymanny

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At this point my take is EM thought he was pulling some sort of Belichickian gamesmanship back then. In the years since he has realized he was not even a tenth of the thinker that BB is and now he's literally groveling for forgiveness. It's super pathetic.
 
Bergs

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uncannymanny said:
At this point my take is EM thought he was pulling some sort of Belichickian gamesmanship back then. In the years since he has realized he was not even a tenth of the thinker that BB is and now he's literally groveling for forgiveness. It's super pathetic.
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That, and no one had any idea what a cowardly, skull-crushingly incompetent, and monkey-fucking dumbass piece of shit Roger Goodell was going to be.
 
uncannymanny

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Man, I do wonder about that. The books written in several years about the NFL are going to undoubtedly be must read.
 
Super Nomario

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uncannymanny said:
At this point my take is EM thought he was pulling some sort of Belichickian gamesmanship back then. In the years since he has realized he was not even a tenth of the thinker that BB is and now he's literally groveling for forgiveness. It's super pathetic.
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What Mangini has said in other interviews is that he was just trying to get the Patriots to stop, but it was Tannenbaum and Woody who escalated to the league offices and made it a big deal. Here's one source: http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/09/jets_owner_woody_johnson_okd_2007_nfl_sting_operat.html

From one of the Holley books, Mangini and his wife were very close with Belichick and his wife, so I imagine Belichick's subsequent divorce also affected the friendship dynamics there somewhat.

Mangini has gotten a bad rap for his coaching record. He got fired from the Jets for going 9-7, at which point they hired Rex and Rex became the talk of the town ... for going 9-7. Then he got fired for going 5-11 twice with the Browns, who went 4-12, 5-11, and 4-12 the three years after. His big problem is he sucks at picking jobs. Takes a job with Woody, then after getting fired immediately jumps in with the Browns, then after a couple years out of the league joins the York / Baalke 49ers at the height of their dysfunction.
 
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If Mangini really wanted to put spygate to bed then he'd come out with the specific details of what the pats used the tapes for. No one with an ounce of ability to think critically thinks that the tapes were used same game or were some part of a nefarious cheating scandal. But to many that is still the narrative because the vast majority of the country losses all rational thought when it comes to the Pats. Mangini could actually show some contrition by speaking about how the tapes were used and that he only wanted Bill to stop it against him to tweak the Pats.
 
Ralphwiggum

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Eh, at this point I think the best thing for him to do would be to shut up about it completely. The lame attempts at apologies don't do much of anything to help him (assuming his motivation is to repair his relationship with Bill) and I don't think anyone wants to re-litigate the particulars of Spygate, certainly not Belichick. What would be the practical effect of Mangini getting into specific details? Nobody who thinks BB is a cheater is going to actually parse through the details and change his or her mind, and Pats fans already have an opinion on it.

It's been 10 years. Just shut the hell up about it at this point.
 
BigSoxFan

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And if you really wanted to mend the relationship with Belichick, bringing attention to it through the media is probably the worst possible avenue that you can select.

Mangini is a doofus and needs to STFU already. It's over - Belichick hates your guts and probably will until the day he dies.
 
PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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I am having a hard time ginning up any sympathy for Fredo here. Get in the boat already.

Josh probably looks at his example of jumping to the next available coaching opportunity as a cautionary tale. Make sure you choose the right job not just the next one that presents itself.
 
Hoodie Sleeves

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( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
If Mangini really wanted to put spygate to bed then he'd come out with the specific details of what the pats used the tapes for. No one with an ounce of ability to think critically thinks that the tapes were used same game or were some part of a nefarious cheating scandal. But to many that is still the narrative because the vast majority of the country losses all rational thought when it comes to the Pats. Mangini could actually show some contrition by speaking about how the tapes were used and that he only wanted Bill to stop it against him to tweak the Pats.
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Do you really think that this would convince even one person to change their mind?
 
H78

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uncannymanny said:
At this point my take is EM thought he was pulling some sort of Belichickian gamesmanship back then. In the years since he has realized he was not even a tenth of the thinker that BB is and now he's literally groveling for forgiveness. It's super pathetic.
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Totally agreed. This has always been how I've read the situation as well. Tried to beat Belichick at his own game and failed miserably.
 
snowmanny

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( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
If Mangini really wanted to put spygate to bed then he'd come out with the specific details of what the pats used the tapes for. No one with an ounce of ability to think critically thinks that the tapes were used same game or were some part of a nefarious cheating scandal. But to many that is still the narrative because the vast majority of the country losses all rational thought when it comes to the Pats. Mangini could actually show some contrition by speaking about how the tapes were used and that he only wanted Bill to stop it against him to tweak the Pats.
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In one of the articles he says "there was no great value to what they were doing," or something like that.
(I am blocked from those articles at work right now so can't specify.) I do think it's telling that the guy who reported the Pats for sidelinecameragate doesn't think it really gave the Pats an advantage.
 
tims4wins

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snowmanny said:
In one of the articles he says "there was no great value to what they were doing," or something like that.
(I am blocked from those articles at work right now so can't specify.) I do think it's telling that the guy who reported the Pats for sidelinecameragate doesn't think it really gave the Pats an advantage.
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Exactly - it was pure gamesmanship
 
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Bergs said:
Is he not on ESPN anymore? I thought he was pretty good.
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He moved over to Fox last year. I think all he does is sit in for their debate shows (Skip and Shannon, Whitlock and Cowherd) during the football season.

Going from sharing an NFL sideline with Belichick and Harbaugh to sharing a studio set with Bayless and Sharpe is an insane fall from grace. I almost feel bad for him.
 
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