The off-season

Red(s)HawksFan

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As ever, I think we have to take any speculation that the Red Sox are "in" on a player, especially a high priced one like Encarnacion, with a grain of salt. Of the teams with a perceived opening at DH or 1B, the Sox and Rangers are about the only ones left with that big spender reputation. Of course they're going to be named as possible suitors whether they're involved or not.
 

RedOctober3829

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As ever, I think we have to take any speculation that the Red Sox are "in" on a player, especially a high priced one like Encarnacion, with a grain of salt. Of the teams with a perceived opening at DH or 1B, the Sox and Rangers are about the only ones left with that big spender reputation. Of course they're going to be named as possible suitors whether they're involved or not.
I don't think the Red Sox are in on EE at the top of the market however if he dips down to a more realistic salary it's a possibility. The Red Sox would be in on him if he was at the point where he had to take a Cespedes-type deal from last offseason where it's a 3 year deal with an opt out after 1 year.
 

moondog80

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I'm fine with bargain bin. Stay cheap, get under the luxury tax, then spend $280M on Shohei Otani after 2017.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/nippon-ham-fighters-planning-to-post-shohei-otani-after-2017-season.html
I assume MLB teams are looking at him as a pitcher and not a hitter? But lets say there was someone good enough to excel as both a starter and a hitter, would having him DH on his off days hurt his performance as a hitter. I'm guessing no, and teams would be afraid to experiment. But if he could do both and maintain a high standard, wouldn't he worth like 50 mil a year because he's essentially 2 players (or 1 and 4/5 to account for not DHing when he starts)?
 

foulkehampshire

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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-find-a-home-for-edwin-encarnacion/

Dave Cameron brings up a handedness concern for EE that I hadn't really considered before. Having our five best hitters (EE/Betts/Pedroia/Hanley/Bogaerts) be RHH would be pretty vulnerable.

He might not be the only guy we get, but Valbuena as a DH platoon with Young would also give us third base insurance.
EE & Betts don't have any meaningful splits regarding RHP. Xander and Pedroia take a power hit but still make good contact.
Ramirez is pretty vulnerable to RHP but I hope he's continues his 2016 resurgence. (268/.341/.541 against RHP in the second half)

Valbuena is a decent piece that would fit offensively, though the Sox kinda have a glutton of lefty platoonish 3B (Shaw, Panda, Holt). He'd be more interesting if could still play other positions but at 31 he might be past that point.
 

Rice4HOF

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I assume MLB teams are looking at him as a pitcher and not a hitter? But lets say there was someone good enough to excel as both a starter and a hitter, would having him DH on his off days hurt his performance as a hitter. I'm guessing no, and teams would be afraid to experiment. But if he could do both and maintain a high standard, wouldn't he worth like 50 mil a year because he's essentially 2 players (or 1 and 4/5 to account for not DHing when he starts)?
Actually, on the days he pitches you don't need a DH. Let him hit for himself. Only becomes a problem if he gets pulled early, otherwise you just pinch hit for the relief pitcher late in the game.
 

keninten

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Nov 24, 2005
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Actually, on the days he pitches you don't need a DH. Let him hit for himself. Only becomes a problem if he gets pulled early, otherwise you just pinch hit for the relief pitcher late in the game.
Not sure but I thought if a pitcher hits to start the game you lose the DH.
 

foulkehampshire

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Actually, on the days he pitches you don't need a DH. Let him hit for himself. Only becomes a problem if he gets pulled early, otherwise you just pinch hit for the relief pitcher late in the game.
I can only imagine the backlash if he went to the AL and got hurt DH'ing.
 

MikeM

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I don't think the Red Sox are in on EE at the top of the market however if he dips down to a more realistic salary it's a possibility. The Red Sox would be in on him if he was at the point where he had to take a Cespedes-type deal from last offseason where it's a 3 year deal with an opt out after 1 year.
I really can't see the opt out after one year path being there for EE. The age factor and no first round pick coming back if he was to opt out are just too much of a deal killer from the signing team perspective.

Guessing that Toronto already coming off the board hurts him pretty bad here, as playing up the re-sign angle there was probably his agent's primary source of negotiating leverage. I never bet against the general possibility that somebody like Texas coughs up stupid money, but that 4/$80m of guaranteed $$$ on him is starting to look like quite the reach.

Not sure what my magic # would be on EE. If there was even the slightest hint of this rumored budget crunch going on in the back round I'm still passing on a 3 year deal though.
 

MikeM

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A lot of Sandoval talk. Dombrowski noted was even a chance they don't sign a bat at all. Might depend on finances after reliever acquisition

A counter to all the Encarnacion/Alvarez/etc rumors.
Still not adding up to me, unless Speier's theory is right and DD really did pick up that Buchholz option with the full expectation that (at the very least) it was going to mostly paralyze any immediate search for Ortiz's replacement.

If true that is a pretty terrible trade off imo, and even less of the "no brainer" people were trying to pass it off as. We need the bat more then we needed to play out another round of the Buchholz Upside game. Wright and him were basically already a coin flip anyway, and I'd of rather gone dumpster diving for pitching depth latter then pass up the more ideal Ortiz solutions that are going to be off the board by the time DD is "ready" to address that hole.
 

Captaincoop

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This is something I might say if I was hoping to slow-play the free agent DH types and catch one of them on the cheap after the other buyers have filled that spot.
 

OptimusPapi

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I going to post a few days ago and if I had I might have looked smart. Procrastination does not pay. If the Sox have 180 million already committed to players in 2017 then that means they have fifteen million to play with. There is not enough there to get a reliever, a bat and still have enough left over for any in season trades. This might be a tough sell to fans but I can see how the do nothing approach makes sense. By the end of the 2017 season the Sox should have a better idea if Sandoval has anything left, if Moncada can hit a breaking ball, If Sam Travis can hit at the major league level, and what kind of player Shaw really is. In addition they will have twenty plus million off the books from Young and Buch. There is also a chance if there is a rebound from Pablo they can always trade him for additional savings. In addition to all this, there are potential extensions for Boggy, Betts and JBJ to think about. Go into this season and hope the first/third base situation figures itself out, the starting pitching is more consistent and improvements from some of the young players is enough to get them into the playoffs. It is a risk but not without its rewards.
 

RedOctober3829

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Phil Rogers on MLBN says he's hearing the Red Sox more and more on Sale. Says the rumor is that Moncada isn't untouchable and DD would move him in the right deal. Throws out there that David Robertson is a name the Sox are interested in as well.
 

JBJ_HOF

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Phil Rogers on MLBN says he's hearing the Red Sox more and more on Sale. Says the rumor is that Moncada isn't untouchable and DD would move him in the right deal. Throws out there that David Robertson is a name the Sox are interested in as well.
To be fair he started the whole thing by saying "I think the Red Sox have the most young hitting to make it happen." Just watched it again and he never said he heard they were talking or whatever.
 

johnnywayback

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Farrell on MLBN just now repeated the thing about having players rotate through the DH spot. Also volunteered the Fred Lynn comp for Benintendi. Nothing much else of interest.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports that there is a "legitimate chance" Chris Sale is traded to the Nationals for a package headed by Victor Robles and Lucas Giolito.

According to Baseball Prospectus, Robles and Giolito are 70/60 prospects (Overall potential value/Likely value). Benintendi and Moncada were also rated 70/60. That means we'd have to give up Beni + Moncada + more. No thanks.

FYI, Devers was 70/55, Groome 70/55, Kopech 60/50.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal reports that there is a "legitimate chance" Chris Sale is traded to the Nationals for a package headed by Victor Robles and Lucas Giolito.

According to Baseball Prospectus, Robles and Giolito are 70/60 prospects (Overall potential value/Likely value). Benintendi and Moncada were also rated 70/60. That means we'd have to give up Beni + Moncada + more. No thanks.

FYI, Devers was 70/55, Groome 70/55, Kopech 60/50.
As I mentioned over the weekend this is along the lines of the actual price for Sale. You won't get him for a package headlined by ERod and Swihart. Chi Sox did well here if this occurs. Even if the Sox offered Moncada plus you could make an argument that Giolito is the safer bet. Getting the probable top pitching prospect in the game is excellent.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Sale's a great pitcher - but I'm not sure he's the guy I'd move Moncada for. Sale's delivery has long worried me, and we'd be looking at having up to four LHP in the rotation with Price, Sale, Rodriguez and Pomeranz. If Rodriguez is headed out in the deal too, then I'm not sure the upgrade is worthwhile when the team has bigger needs.
 

Green Monster

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Perhaps the Red Sox talks with the White Sox are centered more seriously toward Robertson and only casually toward Sale
 

Dewey'sCannon

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I might be willing to part with Moncado in a Sale deal, or maybe even JBJ in the alternative. But I wouldn't include Beni, ERod, Groome or Devers as the next piece. Kopech, Swihart or Vasquez as the next piece, but only one of those. OK to add other pieces. If that doesn't do it, so be it. Let the Nats take him if they're willing to pay the price.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Perhaps the Red Sox talks with the White Sox are centered more seriously toward Robertson and only casually toward Sale
I doubt it, given what they've said about the luxe tax threshold, unless they are sending Buchholz to Chicago, which would seem to defeat the purpose from their standpoint (unless they have a separate deal worked out for Buch).
 

MikeM

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Robertson doesn't really make a lot of sense if DD then plans to turn around and essentially write off the rest of this winter's potential upgrades as being the product of a budget crunch. The $13m going to Buchholz is already questionable enough without doubling down on the reckless spending factor.

Getting a hunch that I'm gonna wake up one of these mornings to find a whole lot of people in an uproar over what DD ends up surrendering for a rental solution to his 8th inning priority.
 

AB in DC

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So is the idea that the Sox have to stay under the luxury tax threshold this year, because they'll need to go over when they lock up all the B's on long term deals?
 

Bowlerman9

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So is the idea that the Sox have to stay under the luxury tax threshold this year, because they'll need to go over when they lock up all the B's on long term deals?
Not necessarily. By the time they need to start paying the B's big bucks, Hanley will be gone (potentially replaced by Travis making the minimum); Panda will be gone. Buchholz will be gone. I do think they will go over at some point soon, but I dont think the salary for the B's over the next 3-4 years will be the reason.