The Search for a WR

[BigSoxFan]

Figured this could heat up and warrant a thread. Zolak continues to assert that the Pats are searching for a legit starting WR in trade. Rumored targets:

Demaryius Thomas (seemingly debunked)
Emmanuel Sanders (doubtful for some reason)
Golden Tate (FA after season and with a friendly...so possible)

Others?

We have longed joked about Larry Fitzgerald but this is a year it might actually make some sense. Cardinals aren’t legit contenders this year and need future capital to usher in the Rosen era. They have a promising rookie WR in Kirk who figures to be his best in the slot, where Fitz generally plays now. Fitz is on a 1 year deal so no future commitment necessary.

Chances are nothing happens but I figure we can put all the speculation, rumors, etc. in one place.

 

[bsj]

Noooooo....not that stupid airport photo again

 

[Bongorific]

Tate makes sense. Seems to fit the offense and Lions may want to get Golladay in more 2 WR sets. Plus Patricia. There’s a path.

 

[Saints Rest]

Bedard had a long article on this exact topic earlier this week. This was his conclusion:
WHO ARE THE MOST LIKELY TARGETS FOR THE PATRIOTS?

So where does that leave us? Here’s a list, ranked by likelihood/impact on the Patriots:

Emmanuel Sanders, Broncos
Josh Gordon, Browns
Kevin White, Bears
Brandon Marshall, Seahawks
Michael Floyd, Saints
Bernard Reedy, Bucs
Tommylee Lewis, Saints
Golden Tate, Lions

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I don't understand how he combines likelihood with impact in a ranking? Like, how is he weighing each of those? Like, I think Golden Tate would have way more impact than Brandon Marshall. I also think he's more likely than Sanders, I don't see the Broncos trading with us.

 

[RedOctober3829]

I don't understand how he combines likelihood with impact in a ranking? Like, how is he weighing each of those? Like, I think Golden Tate would have way more impact than Brandon Marshall. I also think he's more likely than Sanders, I don't see the Broncos trading with us.

He ranked them by likelihood of the Pats acquiring that player.

 

[NJ_Sox_Fan]

Dez Bryant, duh

 

[Section15Box113]

Former SoSH 2016 draft binky Daniel Braverman was released by the Chiefs.

Probably not what’s needed for the 53rd spot, but perhaps a PS candidate.

 

[Van Everyman]

Who was the last WR the Pats picked up right before the season began who succeeded? Have there been any in the Belichick/Brady era? I remember they got Ted Washington around the time preseason ended but can’t remember any receivers who actually gave them anything. Moss was acquired much earlier (and didn’t play much if any in the preseason IIRC).

Are there any late acquisition receiver success stories I’m forgetting?

 

[Marciano490]

I’d break that question out for the whole NFL. Receiver just seems like one of those positions that takes a long time to get down.

 

[west12]

Looks like Miami cut Leonte Caroo, who got some Patriots draft buzz a few years ago. Seems to me that he would benefit from the Tannehil to Brady upgrade.

 

[ZMart100]

Who was the last WR the Pats picked up right before the season began who succeeded? Have there been any in the Belichick/Brady era? I remember they got Ted Washington around the time preseason ended but can’t remember any receivers who actually gave them anything. Moss was acquired much earlier (and didn’t play much if any in the preseason IIRC).

Are there any late acquisition receiver success stories I’m forgetting?

Deion Branch in 2010? He was midseason I think though.

Edit: 4 games for Seattle, 11 for the Pats with 48 catches for 706 yards plus 5 for 59 in that stupid Jets playoff game

 

[BaseballJones]

I'm uneasy wth just three WRs. However, keep in mind that they're adding the best receiver on the team in week 5.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I'm uneasy wth just three WRs. However, keep in mind that they're adding the best receiver on the team in week 5.

...who is 32 years old and is coming off a major knee injury. Even with a rosie outlook on Jules, this team needs a legit WR.

 

[Garshaparra]

Who was the last WR the Pats picked up right before the season began who succeeded? Have there been any in the Belichick/Brady era? I remember they got Ted Washington around the time preseason ended but can’t remember any receivers who actually gave them anything. Moss was acquired much earlier (and didn’t play much if any in the preseason IIRC).

Are there any late acquisition receiver success stories I’m forgetting?

After the late pickup last season, Dorsett didn't do much in week 1 vs. KC last year (neither did most of the team in that shellacking) but he had 3 catches on 3 targets for 68 yards in the week 2 win at NO. That's something.

 

[Toe Nash]

I've always like Tate but remember (as Van Everyman noted) that very few players, especially receivers, "get it" right away with Brady / the Pats offense. Especially if you just threw them in there week 1. Tate may be good enough to do so but it's more likely that whoever they acquire wouldn't get many snaps in the first 4 games barring injury.

So it seems unlikely that they would spend a lot to get someone and would make more sense to target a younger developmental guy (like Dorsett was).

Remember too that White, Burkhead and Hollister could all line up as passcatchers in various sets, so while they definitely need injury insurance in case Hogan / Patterson / Dorsett get hurt, they're probably OK for all normal situations.

 

[dcmissle]

Maybe the lead up to yesterday was waiting to see if some team got overly optimistic on practice squad plans. I was hoping against hope that Washington would get careless with Mr Irrelevant, but it wasn’t even a close call.

There are probably guys available who could play an emergency role in weeks 1 through 4.

I’d be happy if they used some of that 2019 draft capital for someone who would fit in short and long term.

 

[TheoShmeo]

The 2001 SB team had Charles Johnson as its third WR. I keep saying this in an attempt to mollify myself.

It’s not working very well.

Chris Hogan as the top WR seems like a recipe for him getting locked down.

I’d like to think they would pick up one (or even two) of the guys listed but given the complexity of the Pats offense, I tend to doubt they will or, if they do, that anyone could be functional by the Texans game.

Bill’s approach here is curious at best.

 

[sodenj5]

Looks like Miami cut Leonte Caroo, who got some Patriots draft buzz a few years ago. Seems to me that he would benefit from the Tannehil to Brady upgrade.

Lol, because Tannehill was Carroo's problem.

 

[bakahump]

The 2001 SB team had Charles Johnson as its third WR. I keep saying this in an attempt to mollify myself.

It’s not working very well.

I like your positive outlook, but will say they had like 3 HoFers on Defense (Mcginnest, Seymour, Law) and some Pro bowl Caliber help (Milloy, Vrabel, Cox).

Not sure this team is built the same...

 

[Saints Rest]

I like your positive outlook, but will say they had like 3 HoFers on Defense (Mcginnest, Seymour, Law) and some Pro bowl Caliber help (Milloy, Vrabel, Cox).

Not sure this team is built the same...

True, but OTOH, Charles Johnson was not the only emblem of mediocrity on that offense. I’m not sure there are more than two or three players from that team who would make this year’s offense.

 

[Captaincoop]

Not only was that team built differently, the NFL was coached and officiated in an entirely different way than it is today.

There's no comfort in comparing the 2001 WR situation to 2018.

This year's team needs help.

 

[Ale Xander]

Has there ever been a worse set of WR's for week 1 for a defending Conference Champion?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Has there ever been a worse set of WR's for week 1 for a defending Conference Champion?

2016 Panthers had:Ted Ginn,Devin Funchess, Corey Brown.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Has there ever been a worse set of WR's for week 1 for a defending Conference Champion?

The Eagles will be starting Nelson Agholor and Mike Wallace’s corpse so...yes.

 

[lexrageorge]

The 2001 SB team had Charles Johnson as its third WR. I keep saying this in an attempt to mollify myself.

It’s not working very well.

Chris Hogan as the top WR seems like a recipe for him getting locked down.

I’d like to think they would pick up one (or even two) of the guys listed but given the complexity of the Pats offense, I tend to doubt they will or, if they do, that anyone could be functional by the Texans game.

Bill’s approach here is curious at best.

I don't think Bill's approach is curious; I think the current situation is a combination of some bad injury luck (Jordan Matthews, Britt, Mitchell) along with a suspension that was announced after mini-camp concluded. There's only so many contingencies that can be planned for.

Let's see what happens over the first few weeks of the season before declaring defeat.

 

[Marciano490]

I asked before and I’ll repeat the question - how many teams have really solid, enviable receiver corps? Pitt, Denver, Rams, Minnesota, maybe Chargers, maybe Detroit.

This sounds more to me like complaining our 4th and 5th starters are 4+ ERA guys than the Patriots being systematically weaker than other teams in the league.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I asked before and I’ll repeat the question - how many teams have really solid, enviable receiver corps? Pitt, Denver, Rams, Minnesota, maybe Chargers, maybe Detroit.

This sounds more to me like complaining our 4th and 5th starters are 4+ ERA guys than the Patriots being systematically weaker than other teams in the league.

I agree with your point, I think people are overreacting, probably based off 2006/Reche PTSD, I’d probably argue your list though. Pitt, KC, ATL, NYG, TB, SD, MN I think are top tier in some order and possibly even CLE would easily be above us, but that’s all including Gronk in the equation. Personally I think they’ll be fine, but I wouldn’t be shocked by a veteran addition after week 1, so that their contract isn’t guaranteed if there’s any kind of issue *cough* Des Bryant *cough*.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I agree with your point, I think people are overreacting, probably based off 2006/Reche PTSD, I’d probably argue your list though. Pitt, KC, ATL, NYG, TB, SD, MN I think are top tier in some order and possibly even CLE would easily be above us, but that’s all including Gronk in the equation. Personally I think they’ll be fine, but I wouldn’t be shocked by a veteran addition after week 1, so that their contract isn’t guaranteed if there’s any kind of issue *cough* Des Bryant *cough*.

Alright alright alright..another on the Dez train. Welcome aboard!

Dorsett taking a leap forward would go a long way. It would reduce the potential issue in the first month and he’d be that solid WR3 upon Edelman’s return. I think Patterson’s upside is basically what Stallworth gave the 2007 team (45/700/3). A Hogan injury in the first month would be very problematic.

 

[dcmissle]

Alright alright alright..another on the Dez train. Welcome aboard!

Dorsett taking a leap forward would go a long way. It would reduce the potential issue in the first month and he’d be that solid WR3 upon Edelman’s return. I think Patterson’s upside is basically what Stallworth gave the 2007 team (45/700/3). A Hogan injury in the first month would be very problematic.

+1.

If anyone goes down now, it will be during the street free agent portion of the program, so why not?

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Alright alright alright..another on the Dez train. Welcome aboard!

Dorsett taking a leap forward would go a long way. It would reduce the potential issue in the first month and he’d be that solid WR3 upon Edelman’s return. I think Patterson’s upside is basically what Stallworth gave the 2007 team (45/700/3). A Hogan injury in the first month would be very problematic.

I’ve been riding shotgun for a month. Dude, I’ve been working the radio while you drive.

 

[BaseballJones]

...who is 32 years old and is coming off a major knee injury. Even with a rosie outlook on Jules, this team needs a legit WR.

I think Edelman will be fine and productive. Just an opinion obviously.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Lol, because Tannehill was Carroo's problem.

I'm not super familiar with Carroo, is this more "Carroo sucks" or defense of Tannehill?

 

[Super Nomario]

I don't think Bill's approach is curious; I think the current situation is a combination of some bad injury luck (Jordan Matthews, Britt, Mitchell) along with a suspension that was announced after mini-camp concluded. There's only so many contingencies that can be planned for.

It's kind of both, I think. They traded away Cooks and let Amendola walk in FA (two moves I agree with, FWIW). I'm not sure how bad the injury luck is when Matthews and Mitchell (and Edelman) were all hurt last year, too. They were relying on a bunch of older players, a couple prime-age guys (Dorsett and Patterson) who've never lived up to their draft hype, and a few young guys who were little-regarded coming out of school. The positional spending at WR is bottom half of the league and I would imagine the draft investment is bottom-five.

It reminds me of the 2014 offensive line; they assembled a bunch of options and eventually found a combination that worked, but it was a mess for like a quarter of the season. You can't really be good everywhere. I guess the concern would be that they expected to lighten the need for great WRs by building a better running game, but with Wynn on IR and Michel and Burkhead dinged up, it looks like we're back to Brady throwing 35-40 times a game.

 

[TheoShmeo]

I don't think Bill's approach is curious; I think the current situation is a combination of some bad injury luck (Jordan Matthews, Britt, Mitchell) along with a suspension that was announced after mini-camp concluded. There's only so many contingencies that can be planned for.

Let's see what happens over the first few weeks of the season before declaring defeat.

The two are not the same. I will admit to being negative. But perhaps one or both of the guys they picked up yesterday will help. I hope so. Guys the Jets discard don't necessarily fill me with confidence but then again, Woodhead and Revis suggest I should have an open mind.

Either way, Bill's moves -- including moves that work -- are sometimes curious, and I think not choosing to augment with an Emmanuel Sanders or Dez Bryant (or some other established veteran) given the circumstances facing the Pats right now is somewhat curious in this case. I have a healthy respect for the massive gap between me and the HC of the NEP. And I know that many a veteran WR has failed in this system. But none of that stops me from thinking that 4th and 13 decision, the WR core in 2006, not getting more for Jimmy G and the Butler benching were all curious. None of those moves made me declare defeat and this one similarly does not.

 

[BigSoxFan]

The two are not the same. I will admit to being negative. But perhaps one or both of the guys they picked up yesterday will help. I hope so. Guys the Jets discard don't necessarily fill me with confidence but then again, Woodhead and Revis suggest I should have an open mind.

Either way, Bill's moves -- including moves that work -- are sometimes curious, and I think not choosing to augment with an Emmanuel Sanders or Dez Bryant (or some other established veteran) given the circumstances facing the Pats right now is somewhat curious in this case. I have a healthy respect for the massive gap between me and the HC of the NEP. And I know that many a veteran WR has failed in this system. But none of that stops me from thinking that 4th and 13 decision, the WR core in 2006, not getting more for Jimmy G and the Butler benching were all curious. None of those moves made me declare defeat and this one similarly does not.

I’m with you. I had no issues with starting camp with Britt, Matthews, and Mitchell still on board. But all those dice rolls crapped out and all we did was add a couple developmental prospects who almost surely aren’t going to help this year, if ever. We know what Hogan gives us. We have a pretty good idea what Edelman will provide once he returns. We have absolutely no idea what Dorsett and Patterson will provide and that’s what makes me a little anxious.

I think the coaching staff must have a lot of confidence in Dorsett. It’s quite possible he’ll be one of the hot fantasy pickups after Week 1. But it remains quite scary that we are one strained hamstring, concussion, etc. away from having Phillip Dorsett and Cordarelle Patterson as Brady’s top 2 WRs for the first month.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I'm not super familiar with Carroo, is this more "Carroo sucks" or defense of Tannehill?

Carroo has been beat out each of past two years by Undrafted FA's, currently has a groin injury, and reportedly has kept struggling with the playbook. Considering that receivers in our system face much more complex reads/reactions this kid wouldn't seem to have a chance here.

 

[Jimbodandy]

After a few games of White catching 10-12 balls for 100 yards and a touchdown, maybe folks will stop worrying about how few wide receivers we have.

Bill is smarter than everyone. If his moves weren't curious, I'd be more concerned.

 

[joe dokes]

Every year, there's some unit that appears wanting. It's the nature of aiming for the Super Bowl every year in the salary cap era. Sometimes the bologna get sliced pretty thin.

 

[Super Nomario]

After a few games of White catching 10-12 balls for 100 yards and a touchdown, maybe folks will stop worrying about how few wide receivers we have.

I don't think you can just substitute throwing to the RB for throwing to WR and call it gravy. At some point, your receivers are so bad that defenses don't have to play them honestly and can flood the middle of the field. You don't need a Randy Moss or a Brandin Cooks, but guys like LaFell were good enough that they could make defenses pay if they cheated to the middle. Can Dorsett or Patterson do that?

FWIW, White has caught 10 passes twice in regular season games (once for 100+ yards, once for just 47) and the Patriots lost both. (He did have 14 for 110 in Super Bowl LI, of course)

Bill is smarter than everyone. If his moves weren't curious, I'd be more concerned.

Sometimes a problem is a problem. The edge rush group was crappy last year, and it was crappy in the playoffs and they blew the Super Bowl. Questioning the quality of the WR group isn't questioning Belichick's smarts or overall strategy or ability to build a team or whatever. You can't be good everywhere. But the WR corps is bad and bad positional units can sink seasons.

 

[RedOctober3829]

After a few games of White catching 10-12 balls for 100 yards and a touchdown, maybe folks will stop worrying about how few wide receivers we have.

Bill is smarter than everyone. If his moves weren't curious, I'd be more concerned.

Who will defenses have to key on at WR? What's to stop teams from bracketing White when he goes in motion and doubling Gronk and making Hogan/Dorsett/Patterson beat them in 1-on-1 coverage?

 

[dcmissle]

Every year, there's some unit that appears wanting. It's the nature of aiming for the Super Bowl every year in the salary cap era. Sometimes the bologna get sliced pretty thin.

True, but here he also is rolling dice with the injury gods. It’s not just “meh” — it’s we could really be fucked during the first quarter of the season.

I’m sure there is a plan because he plans for everything. But he also is a risk taker.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Who will defenses have to key on at WR? What's to stop teams from bracketing White when he goes in motion and doubling Gronk and making Hogan/Dorsett/Patterson beat them in 1-on-1 coverage?

In the early going a strong and versatile running game could stifle some of these concerns. Three backs on the roster who can run and catch. Can split out White or Burkhead with a 2 man backfield leaving a legit ballcarrier behind and being able to mix things up. If teams want to commit 4 defenders to 2 receivers I think Brady and McD would be more than happy with that. Hogan has been great when healthy.

Edit: I of course say this having been plenty vocal about wanting Tate/Sanders and praying that Zolak’s sources are good.

 

[j44thor]

Who will defenses have to key on at WR? What's to stop teams from bracketing White when he goes in motion and doubling Gronk and making Hogan/Dorsett/Patterson beat them in 1-on-1 coverage?

Isn't having 3 WR, all of whom can stretch the field, in 1-1 coverage any OC's dream???
Back shoulder to Dorsett & Hogan with occasional WR screens to keep the DB's from playing off coverage.

White can play in the slot and both Burkhead and Michel are also capable pass catchers.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Isn't having 3 WR, all of whom can stretch the field, in 1-1 coverage any OC's dream???
Back shoulder to Dorsett & Hogan with occasional WR screens to keep the DB's from playing off coverage.

White can play in the slot and both Burkhead and Michel are also capable pass catchers.

Are Dorsett and Patterson good enough route runners to make this happen? How will Hogan fare when he's a top target to stop by an opposing defense instead of drawing weaker coverage?

Having White in the slot so a corner or a safety can cover him isn't a big advantage IMO. The advantage they get is him on a LB coming out of the backfield.

McDaniels will scheme enough formations to put points up, but it's going to be harder than ever before to do so given the WR depth chart the first 4 weeks.

 

[rodderick]

Isn't having 3 WR, all of whom can stretch the field, in 1-1 coverage any OC's dream???
Back shoulder to Dorsett & Hogan with occasional WR screens to keep the DB's from playing off coverage.

White can play in the slot and both Burkhead and Michel are also capable pass catchers.

White can play in the slot? What makes you say that? Lining up as a WR for a few snaps a game to take advantage of a good matchup doesn't indicate he has the skillset to run what is probably the most mentally demanding position on the Patriots offense. Fact is they are going into a season with three receivers, two of those being complete question marks and Chris Hogan, a nice complementary receiver who has produced less than Brandon LaFell did in his time in New England. Even when Edelman comes back, their best player at the position will be a somewhat injury prone 32 year old coming back from an ACL tear.

I don't see why we can't call a spade a spade: it's a terrible WR corps and the team right now isn't built to withstand a single injury to Edelman/Hogan/Gronkowski/White if they want to put together a deep playoff run. In 2006 and 2013 the Patriots started the year with a noticeable lack of talent at receiver, and both times you could argue that was the fatal flaw that ended up preventing them from going to the Super Bowl and potentially addind another ring. It's downright poor roster construction, especially when your quarterback is 41 years old. Obviously Bill knows a whole lot more than any of us could ever dream of knowing, but I don't understand the need to pussyfoot around this obvious issue.

 

[dcmissle]

Because we are super grateful for 20 spectacular years and hypersensitive to ANY criticism, all of us, including me. And so we’re reflexively resistant to recognize that even a broken clock has it right twice a day.

We’re also fully capable of Baghdad Bobbing almost anything — extolling the virtues of Jordan Richards’ ST play just this week. He cost us a SB (or Belichick did, depending on one’s POV).

Shit happens. This is a pretty shitty situation.

But when Sony Michel breaks off a 5 yr run, some will hail all this as a master stroke of preseason deception.

Edit — particularly when viewed against the backdrop of the 2019 draft ammo available, some of which will quite likely be traded out to future years, this situation is frustrating.

 

[DJnVa]

Who will defenses have to key on at WR? What's to stop teams from bracketing White when he goes in motion and doubling Gronk and making Hogan/Dorsett/Patterson beat them in 1-on-1 coverage?

If 4 of the 11 defenders are watching White and Gronk, I like the chances of Brady staying upright in the pocket long enough to find Hogan/Dorsett/Patterson with only 4 guys rushing consistently.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

I thought Devin Lucien looked pretty good in preseason games. He's been around the offense for a couple of years, so maybe he's a surprise guy that could contribute should injuries hit.

 

[DJnVa]

Kimbrel-proofed the sumbitch!

In before the edit.