The Starting Rotation's Start

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SouthernBoSox

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How worried should we be about David Price?
He just doesn't really have any crispness to his pitches anymore.

The first couple starts his cutter had some good depth and his change was there as well. It was very similar to the playoffs when he was dominating with a dynamic cutter and spotted fastball.

As of yesterday his cutter is completely gone. It's a total non factor. His fastball is 92.... His change has no depth.

I don't know what the root cause is... but he just doesn't have the arm talent right now.

I'm very bearish on him. He's either injuried or the arm talents just gone. Neither which are ideal situations.
 

sean1562

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Send him to Andrews, if there is anything kind of wrong with him dl him and get him surgery. Don’t wanna sit through another year of an injured pitcher throwing through a serious injury. It can’t be contract related there is no way he makes more on the open market than on his existing deal. This rotation is just as good as the Yankees if our 5 guy is price who looks like he has so far this year
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I know the assumption is after every poor outing that the guy must be injured, but surgery isn't some sort of magical cure-all. Yes, Tommy John can fix a torn UCL, but it's no guarantee that the pitcher ever returns to form.

Price hasn't reached Lackey in 2011 depths yet where he clearly needs help. It very well could be a case of early season dead arm (he did miss pretty much all of last season) and he'll work through it and be fine in the long run.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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He just doesn't really have any crispness to his pitches anymore.

The first couple starts his cutter had some good depth and his change was there as well. It was very similar to the playoffs when he was dominating with a dynamic cutter and spotted fastball.

As of yesterday his cutter is completely gone. It's a total non factor. His fastball is 92.... His change has no depth.

I don't know what the root cause is... but he just doesn't have the arm talent right now.

I'm very bearish on him. He's either injuried or the arm talents just gone. Neither which are ideal situations.
The Red Sox paid for his best years performance which they certainly aren’t getting close to now or likely in the future.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I know the assumption is after every poor outing that the guy must be injured, but surgery isn't some sort of magical cure-all. Yes, Tommy John can fix a torn UCL, but it's no guarantee that the pitcher ever returns to form.
Dude. You must have missed the emergency surgery Pomeranz had after those two bad innings on Wednesday!
 

Pozo the Clown

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How worried should we be about David Price?
Kinda...sorta...very.

In his last 5 starts, he's posted a ghastly 8.22 ERA. If he's putrid again in his next start in New York (talk about the deck being stacked against him), perhaps they should consider seeing if he can get himself straightened out in a relief role.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Kinda...sorta...very.

In his last 5 starts, he's posted a ghastly 8.22 ERA. If he's putrid again in his next start in New York (talk about the deck being stacked against him), perhaps they should consider seeing if he can get himself straightened out in a relief role.
That is unlikely to happen. Pitchers don't generally go to the bullpen to straighten themselves out in a relief role. At least not in the sense that they'll solve their issue and jump back into the rotation. They go to the bullpen in order to hide or minimize their problems.

I think with someone of Price's stature (and salary), the more likely solution if it is something that needs to be worked out is a short DL stint and a rehab trip to the minors, which gives him a week off then 30 days to get "straightened out" in games that don't matter.
 

Pozo the Clown

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That is unlikely to happen. Pitchers don't generally go to the bullpen to straighten themselves out in a relief role. At least not in the sense that they'll solve their issue and jump back into the rotation. They go to the bullpen in order to hide or minimize their problems.

I think with someone of Price's stature (and salary), the more likely solution if it is something that needs to be worked out is a short DL stint and a rehab trip to the minors, which gives him a week off then 30 days to get "straightened out" in games that don't matter.
I agree that it's unlikely to happen. It's the images of him dominating out of the pen last year that are fueling the idea. IF there's a mental component to Price's struggles (and I'm not saying there is one) a relief role MIGHT be helpful. Pure conjecture on my part.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I agree that it's unlikely to happen. It's the images of him dominating out of the pen last year that are fueling the idea. IF there's a mental component to Price's struggles (and I'm not saying there is one) a relief role MIGHT be helpful. Pure conjecture on my part.
He was in the pen last year because he came back too late to get himself ramped up to starter-level pitch counts. If he needs to go to the pen to rediscover his dominance or overcome some mental obstacle, he's better off staying there if he does find it. Seems like a last resort thing rather than an intermediary step.
 

Pozo the Clown

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He was in the pen last year because he came back too late to get himself ramped up to starter-level pitch counts. If he needs to go to the pen to rediscover his dominance or overcome some mental obstacle, he's better off staying there if he does find it. Seems like a last resort thing rather than an intermediary step.
There's (at least) 30 million reasons why they won't leave Price in the bullpen.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/david-price-7536/
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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There's (at least) 30 million reasons why they won't leave Price in the bullpen.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/david-price-7536/
FULLY aware of that, which is why I suggested it would be a last resort, not a "let's put him out there for a couple weeks to see if he can work out the kinks" experiment. If Price ends up in the bullpen, it will be because they've exhausted all possible fixes and think he can't do it as a starter anymore. We're nowhere near that point.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Speier on Price.

According to BaseballSavant.com, the league is hitting .238 with a .397 slugging mark against 94-95 m.p.h. pitches. Against 92-93 offerings, those marks jump to .281 with a .473 slugging percentage. Velocity is not the be-all, end-all — deception, command, and movement all weigh heavily into the effectiveness of a pitch — but at a very basic level, velocity does matter.
“You’ve got to realize that we took a slower buildup in spring training,” said LeVangie. “We didn’t come out of the chute featuring the best velo. I think a month or two from now, we’ll see different velocity. We’ll see the benefits of [the spring approach] later on.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/05/04/velocity-culprit-david-price-recent-rough-stretch/i5fXDd2rro0WlfkTntHeFO/story.html
 

Sale4CY

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Cesar Crespo

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Has BAbip fluctuated at all since the emphasis on launch angles? Would pitching to contact be more effective in 2018 than it was previously?
 

The Gray Eagle

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I’m sure the talking heads on EEI and TSH will take this news in stride.
Yep, he is going to get bashed bigtime. Dunces gonna dunce.

It's not the time for it-- we all should probably try hard to like Price, since it's pretty clear we're gonna be stuck with him for years and years to come now.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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What's he doing? He's on the restricted list if I remember correctly. Is he ready to step up?

Interesting that they moved Porcello up.
Apparently he's eligible to come off the restricted list on Sunday. Whether he's in any condition to step into the rotation is another story. I assume he's throwing in Ft Myers to stay/get stretched out.

With the day off yesterday, it makes sense to bump everyone up a day and put off using a replacement starter as long as possible.
 

Byrdbrain

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What's he doing? He's on the restricted list if I remember correctly. Is he ready to step up?

Interesting that they moved Porcello up.
Serving his suspension for the offseason domestic violence issue, he is OK to return on the 14th but I can't imagine he will.

Edit: Just a smidge late.
 

trekfan55

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Apparently he's eligible to come off the restricted list on Sunday. Whether he's in any condition to step into the rotation is another story. I assume he's throwing in Ft Myers to stay/get stretched out.

With the day off yesterday, it makes sense to bump everyone up a day and put off using a replacement starter as long as possible.
I know he was taken off the DL. But how does this work? Does he have options (I believe he doesn't)? How does he step up? I guess he goes to the bullpen to start.

Velazquez
Johnson
Wright

are the top 3 replacement starters
I would also keep an eye on Jalen Beeks. Guy is destroying AAA right now.
 

Byrdbrain

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Goodbye division lead, but you never know. Those kind of guys kept us going early this year.
You realize only one of them needs to pitch due to this injury right? Also that one has pitched better than Price all year.
If all three of them are in the rotation at once then yes things are a mess.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Goodbye division lead, but you never know. Those kind of guys kept us going early this year.
Given how Price has pitched in his last 3-4 outings, the bar any of those guys have to get over isn't especially high. Velazquez is likely first man up and he's pitched relatively well so far this year. They may not miss a beat in the short term. Long term is a different story.

I know he was taken off the DL. But how does this work? Does he have options (I believe he doesn't)? How does he step up? I guess he goes to the bullpen to start.
Wright does not have options. I don't know what the rules are with regard to the restricted list once his suspension is over, and whether they can leave him on it (I don't think they can), but my guess is that if he's not ready to pitch, they can simply put him back on the DL and let him continue to rehab in the minors.
 

Byrdbrain

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I know he was taken off the DL. But how does this work? Does he have options (I believe he doesn't)? How does he step up? I guess he goes to the bullpen to start.



I would also keep an eye on Jalen Beeks. Guy is destroying AAA right now.
Assuming they don't DFA Wright, and I don't think they will yet, then yes I assume he goes to the bullpen for a while.
I'd rather see Beeks than Wright or Johnson but the options are going to come in to play.

Edit: I don't think the Sox can just DL Wright, he made 2 rehab starts and I think was essentially declared healthy. I'd assume once the suspension is up they have to activate him. I hope I'm wrong on that though.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Edit: I don't think the Sox can just DL Wright, he made 2 rehab starts and I think was essentially declared healthy. I'd assume once the suspension is up they have to activate him. I hope I'm wrong on that though.
I don't think they can put him on the DL if he's healthy, but anything can happen in two weeks off to change whatever status he had when he started the suspension.
 

Pitt the Elder

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I know he was taken off the DL. But how does this work? Does he have options (I believe he doesn't)? How does he step up? I guess he goes to the bullpen to start.



I would also keep an eye on Jalen Beeks. Guy is destroying AAA right now.
What's the scouting report on Beeks? Is he considered a legit prospect? You're right, he is destroying AAA right now...46 Ks in 26.1 ip against 7 bb and 18 h.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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No way it’s just Reynauds. He might have that, but he has to have something else- either elbow instability causing ulnar
nerve issues or thoracic outlet syndrome- no bueno
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Makes it a slight bit more possible Matt Harvey is on the radar.
Not a chance. Reportedly the Mets have a couple possible offers on the table for a trade (and the Sox aren't taking on his full salary). He may not get to outright release and free agency, and even if he does, there's a good argument that Velazquez, Johnson or even Beeks is a better bet than Harvey.

Edit to add: now definitely no chance. Harvey to the Reds for Devin Mesoraco (not a bad haul for the Mets given the circumstances).
 
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Al Zarilla

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You realize only one of them needs to pitch due to this injury right? Also that one has pitched better than Price all year.
If all three of them are in the rotation at once then yes things are a mess.
When I said those kind, I meant a pitcher of that ilk. Velazquez should be the one though.
 

trekfan55

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Not a chance. Reportedly the Mets have a couple possible offers on the table for a trade (and the Sox aren't taking on his full salary). He may not get to outright release and free agency, and even if he does, there's a good argument that Velazquez, Johnson or even Beeks is a better bet than Harvey.

Edit to add: now definitely no chance. Harvey to the Reds for Devin Mesoraco (not a bad haul for the Mets given the circumstances).
Sidetrack. Why would anyone give the Mets anything? After 10 days the guy is a FA and he's signable for the minimum. He was DFA because he couldn't even cut it in the bullpen, so it's not like the Reds had to do an extra effort to sign the guy before anyone beats them to it.

Anyway, he was not the asnwer.
 

Hank Scorpio

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No way it’s just Reynauds. He might have that, but he has to have something else- either elbow instability causing ulnar
nerve issues or thoracic outlet syndrome- no bueno
Thoughts on the possibility it could be a displaced ulnar nerve? I had a similar issue a few years back. Sporadic numbness in my hand, particularly in the fourth and fifth digits. Any pressure on my elbow (such as leaning on it), or palm (grabbing a door knob, handle, etc) seemed to especially aggravate it, often resulting in a painful “jolt” followed by intense, but brief, numbness.

Had ulnar nerve transposition surgery, was in a sling for 2-3 weeks, got full motion back within a few days, full strength maybe a couple of weeks later.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Sidetrack. Why would anyone give the Mets anything? After 10 days the guy is a FA and he's signable for the minimum. He was DFA because he couldn't even cut it in the bullpen, so it's not like the Reds had to do an extra effort to sign the guy before anyone beats them to it.

Anyway, he was not the asnwer.
Supposedly, there were multiple teams interested in Harvey and it's not as though his deal is prohibitive for most teams in a financial sense (he's owed about $4M). So if it looks like he's unlikely to make it through waivers to an outright release, this is their only shot. And even if he did get to free agency, what are the chances he chooses the tanking-for-a-rebuild Reds over any other team that isn't in tanking mode? I can see why they did it if they believe they can "fix" him. Just surprising that it took Mesoraco and cash to get it done.
 

DanoooME

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Supposedly, there were multiple teams interested in Harvey and it's not as though his deal is prohibitive for most teams in a financial sense (he's owed about $4M). So if it looks like he's unlikely to make it through waivers to an outright release, this is their only shot. And even if he did get to free agency, what are the chances he chooses the tanking-for-a-rebuild Reds over any other team that isn't in tanking mode? I can see why they did it if they believe they can "fix" him. Just surprising that it took Mesoraco and cash to get it done.
It's a typical "my crap for your crap" deal and they shared the load in the cost of doing so, as the cash basically equals out the remaining salary this year for both teams.
 

The Gray Eagle

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If you look at Cuzzitt's invaluable minor league thread on this very page, you can see that Wright pitched last night for Pawtucket:
"Steven Wright knuckled through the final six frames, surrendering a run on eight hits and a wild pitch; whiffing one."
He gave up a run in his first inning, then threw 5 scoreless after that.
More fun facts from the box score: Trevor Plouffe went 2 for 3 for Lehigh Valley, and they had a DH named D. Ortiz who had a hit and 2 walks. Charlie Liebrandt's son got the win.)

Four days rest puts Wright on pace to pitch on Sunday, when his suspension will be over.

I can definitely see why people are skeptical about Wright, and knuckleballers are always volatile, but he will be added to the roster this weekend, and will probably be starting on Sunday.
 
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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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No comments on Poms start last night. All in all, despite the L, I’ll take it if that’s what he’ll be going forward
 

grimshaw

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Beeks is pitching today which wouldn't make it too hard to slide him in to Price's spot if Wright isn't the guy. Of course if Price is fine all of this is moot anyhow.

Side note on Wright - if Swihart can catch a knuckleball that could be a situation where he catches since pitch calling is a pretty minor part of the job.
 
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