The terribly mediocre Lakers
- Thread starter smastroyin
- Start date
The Lakers schedule is brutal in December. They're currently on a 2 game losing streak that easily could get to the teens.
Yea, up until JAN 3 (17 games), their schedule is ridiculous. They will obviously win some of these games, but they won't be favored to in any of them.
GSW
@DEN
HOU
@PHI
@CHA
@NYK
@CLE
GSW
@HOU
@GSW
POR
MIN
MEM
LAC
@HOU
@MIN
OKC
GSW
@DEN
HOU
@PHI
@CHA
@NYK
@CLE
GSW
@HOU
@GSW
POR
MIN
MEM
LAC
@HOU
@MIN
OKC
Wow, 5 of the next 10 (and 6 of the next 15) against the Rockets and Warriors. You especially have to love that GSW-@HOU-@GSW three-step between Dec 18 and Dec 22. And with the #1 seed in the West officially in play, both teams should be highly motivated.
@CLE right beforehand is no prize either, given that the Fightin' Lebrons seem to have righted the ship.
Good point. I was skeptical about the Cavs' 7-game string of mostly close wins against mostly crappy teams, but their consecutive road beatdowns of the Sixers and Heat have me convinced that they have really started to right the ship (at least partially thanks to DRose walking the plank, imho).
I think you actually could not intentionally script a tougher four-game stretch of schedule than @CLE-GSW-@HOU-@GSW. You could put that that first GS game on the road, but I'm pretty sure the NBA scheduling algorithm doesn't allow two road games in the same place in such close proximity (at least I've never seen it before). And for added fun: there's at least 1500 miles of travel between each leg of that stretch. (No B2Bs, at least...)
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Here's another thought: Where does Walton actually want to finish? Since they don't own their first this year, they may not care about tanking, but he may want to set the bar for next year as low as possible regardless.
Much like the Nets they don't care where they finish, what they want is to develop the surrounding cast guys they have in advance of next summer. Because free agency is where they intend to make their splash, and they want to convince their targets that they have the surrounding cast necessary to win.
Yea, best case is they steal two game somewhere from PHI/DEN/POR/MIN then win the remaining "winnable" games against CHA/NYK/MEM/LAC
Their strategy seems to consist of injuring the stars of rival teams these days.
Even on a great night, he had 7 turnovers, 5 fouls, and finished minus-8.
Seriously, his athleticism was never in question, and his shot is improving, and should continue to do so. And we always knew Ingram was a project. C’s fans will likely always be happy that Ingram didn’t fall to us and that we got Jaylen Brown instead, but that has more to do with JB than Ingram, who will probably develop into something resembling his 50th percentile projection on draft day.
Hmm, I would still take Ingram, who is almost one full year younger than Jaylen, and still has a far higher ceiling, IMO. And I consider myself a C's fan - albeit one living in the Twin Cities so not inundated with BOS propaganda constantly
7 turnovers. 7.Hmm, I would still take Ingram, who is almost one full year younger than Jaylen, and still has a far higher ceiling, IMO. And I consider myself a C's fan - albeit one living in the Twin Cities so not inundated with BOS propaganda constantly
In a very up and down overtime game that featured 250 points where Ingram played 44 minutes against Durant, Iguadola and occasionally Draymond. He also had 3 steals and two blocks to go with his 32/5/3
We'll revisit this question in a year, when Ingram is in a similar situation to Brown, 21 years old and playing next to multiple veteran stars.Even on a great night, he had 7 turnovers, 5 fouls, and finished minus-8.
Seriously, his athleticism was never in question, and his shot is improving, and should continue to do so. And we always knew Ingram was a project. C’s fans will likely always be happy that Ingram didn’t fall to us and that we got Jaylen Brown instead, but that has more to do with JB than Ingram, who will probably develop into something resembling his 50th percentile projection on draft day.
Brown is better than I thought he would be in his age 21 year, but I really like what Walton & co. are doing with Ingram this year. I assume next year will be about adding an outside shot, and he will be a ridiculously good player if teams can't exclusively play him to go to the hole like he is doing this year.
I think you are right on this one. Ingram had further to go physicially and is still not quite there yet. What he's doing now, anyway, is impressive. As of this moment, Brown is the safer bet but Ingram is the upside play for sure.
He's a year younger with a thousand more minutes under his belt, due to Jaylen playing on a better team last year. It does seem that he is getting better coaching this year, which bears watching.
Yeah, watched a good chunk of this game and the Lakers were impressive. Part of going to overtime was Curry just missing on his shot, but the Lakers were super active defensively and Ingram, in particular, was really using his insane wingspan effectively. Randle was also very effective in a small ball line-up -- Lakers will have an interesting choice with him moving forward. You could see, as well, a glimpse of what Ball can bring if he develops -- just his overall instincts as well as the quickness and precision of his passing, as well as defense that is better than advertised.
Career per 36 minutes:
Ingram 12.9 pts on .489 true shooting / 5.2 reb / 2.7 ast / 0.8 stl / 0.7 blk / 2.0 tov
Brown 15.0 pts on .546 true shooting / 6.3 reb / 1.6 ast / 1.1 stl / 0.4 blk / 1.8 tov
Ingram's extra 2-3 inches of length and extra year of youth probably give him a bit more upside; on the other hand Brown seems like a quicker and more explosive athlete and has shown me more on the defensive end. Seems like a toss-up as far as career prospects at this point (though as a Boston-born Cal guy and Lakers/Duke hater, I may not be totally objective...)
Ingram 12.9 pts on .489 true shooting / 5.2 reb / 2.7 ast / 0.8 stl / 0.7 blk / 2.0 tov
Brown 15.0 pts on .546 true shooting / 6.3 reb / 1.6 ast / 1.1 stl / 0.4 blk / 1.8 tov
Ingram's extra 2-3 inches of length and extra year of youth probably give him a bit more upside; on the other hand Brown seems like a quicker and more explosive athlete and has shown me more on the defensive end. Seems like a toss-up as far as career prospects at this point (though as a Boston-born Cal guy and Lakers/Duke hater, I may not be totally objective...)
Ingram was very impressive last night and Randle was solid. The Lakers are, dare I say it, fun to watch with those two, Kuzma, Ball, Hart and their stable of wily, if not efficient, veterans. As much as I dislike his game, KCP has a bit of Waiters in him (i.e. the belief that they are the best player on the floor at any given time) which is admirable if not rational.
I don't know you can compare guys this young on such vastly different level teams on career numbers, esp to discuss improvement.
I mean, that's all we have to go by in terms of numbers, other than their freshman years in college, and Brown's 215 playoff minutes last season (14.2 pts on .539 ts / 6.0 reb / 2.2 ast per 36).
Not saying the numbers to date are super meaningful or predictive, but they're at least one data point to consider; and it's mildly interesting for me at least to see them laid out side-by-side with minutes equalized.
As far as the disparity in the quality of their teams: yeah, that's worth considering, but I don't think it nullifies their entire bodies of work to date. Some numbers (rebounding rate, block rate, steal rate, shooting percentages, etc.) can be reasonably descriptive of players' "true" skills independent of team context. Rebounding rate in particular stays pretty constant in players throughout their development, regardless of age, team, etc. Even at this early date I think we can say neither of them is Dennis Rodman or Jamal Crawford as a rebounder (to choose two extremes).
Obviously the eye test / scouting is a huge factor in assessing players this young as well. I just think when we don't watch every game (as is the case with most of us and Ingram) the overall numbers help contextualize a memorable anecdote or two. For example, comparing Ingram's number's this season to KD's as a 20 year old NBA soph (23.3 pts on .577 ts, 6.0 reb) help avoid anointing him the can't-miss Second Coming of KD — even if last night's game may have given that impression.
Going to need a few years for Ingram-Brown to shake out; they were both fucking terrible last season and both have improved massively this season. Brown looks better so far but he's on a much better team and a fair bit of his improvement (e.g. defensively) is context-dependent.
As far as the draft is concerned, they look like a pretty fair bet to be the 2nd and 3rd best players selected last year which is all the Celtics (and Lakers) could really ask for.
As far as the draft is concerned, they look like a pretty fair bet to be the 2nd and 3rd best players selected last year which is all the Celtics (and Lakers) could really ask for.
Have the #1, #2 and #3 picks ever ended up the clear three best players in their draft, in correct order? I can't think of a year where it happened. Super early times, but barring injury it looks like 2016 has a really good chance to shake out that way (with I guess Jamal Murray and a few other guys still in the mix to break up the party).
Edit: thinking about it, you could make a strong case for 1992: #1 Shaq, #2 Mourning, #3 Laettner. #1-2 are locked in, but I might take Jim Jackson or Latrell Sprewell over Laettner.
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1982 is close: Worthy, Terry Cummings, and Dominique. I took a quick look and other than Chuck Nevitt, I didn't see anyone who could challenge those three.
Err, I mean Mark Eaton.
My preference for Brown over Ingram has less to do with performance to date than with physical specs — assuming roughly equal quickness, I’ll take Jaylen’s 30+ extra pounds of muscle over Ingram’s length. Ingram may well develop into the better scorer, but Jaylen figures to be the better defender, by far, in an era where versatility is king.
PJ Brown and Big Shot Rob both have a pretty good case over Laettner as well based on advanced stats and, for the latter, postseason value.
15 point loss to a Nuggets team without Jokic or Millsap. Lonzo got tee'ed up in the last few minutes.
Lakers are about to lose tomorrow as well. That means Lonzo will lose 4 times in a week. What say you LaVar, how is this possible?
They should tell LaVar that if he can beat Jordan and Lonzo can beat Curry, both 1-1, then he can join the Lakers coaching staff.
4q:
3:57 Brandon Ingram makes driving layup 100 - 100
Nuggets ended this on a 15p run. It was a lot closer than the final result shows. A loss is a loss is a loss, doesn´t matter at all.
Lakers lose, Mavs win, Hawks win, if only the Kings managed to beat the Bucks (104-109), it would have been a perfect night for the Pick.
3:57 Brandon Ingram makes driving layup 100 - 100
Nuggets ended this on a 15p run. It was a lot closer than the final result shows. A loss is a loss is a loss, doesn´t matter at all.
Lakers lose, Mavs win, Hawks win, if only the Kings managed to beat the Bucks (104-109), it would have been a perfect night for the Pick.
It's weird. In games on 11/9 and 11/11 he attempted 11 FTs (only hitting 5)--so about a 1/3rd of his FTs are in 2 games.
In fully half of his games he has no FTA. In 6 more he has 1 or 2. So in 18 of his 22 games he's had 0 or 1 trip to the FT line. That's amazing.
Only 7 seasons in NBA history with fewer than 1.5 FTA/G in more than 32 minutes/game with usage over 17%--3 of them are this year: Ball, Gary Harris, and Klay Thompson.
Then 2 by Mookie Blaylock, 1 by Dale Ellis, and 1 by Rory Sparrow.
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Personally think the bottom teams are getting clearer and the Lakers aren't one. They aren't good but Ingram has improved, lopez is fine and their defense is ok. Ball won't shoot this badly forever imo and they are are not going to be right at the bottom
Suns, Bulls and kings are brutal. Dallas is tanking.
Atlanta is bad.
Those are all clearly worse than the Lakers to me.
Then you gave the grizzlies who could go tank and I think the magic are bad despite the fluke start. And the clippers could well collapse with injuries too.
Then the Lakers are in the mix with the nets and Miami.
Btw Miami has then team expensively locked up for years and is bad. Haha
Suns, Bulls and kings are brutal. Dallas is tanking.
Atlanta is bad.
Those are all clearly worse than the Lakers to me.
Then you gave the grizzlies who could go tank and I think the magic are bad despite the fluke start. And the clippers could well collapse with injuries too.
Then the Lakers are in the mix with the nets and Miami.
Btw Miami has then team expensively locked up for years and is bad. Haha
I don't see any indication that Dallas, who have improved over the course of the season so far, are tanking. I think it's unlikely the Clippers or Grizzlies tank. The latter, because their veterans want to play and win. The former because they remain dangerous in the playoffs if they can manage to get healthy so they will probably keep trying if they can stay in shouting distance of a playoff birth.
The Magic may be falling into the same category as the Nets and Lakers. The Clippers may also have sufficient injury problems to end up there. The Mavs, while I don't think they are tanking, are still pretty bad and belong in that tier. Basically, I think you have several teams that are bad but not in the bottom 4 and it is too early to try to sort them. Things may also look very different in a month after the schedule beats any hope out of the Lakers.
I think the Lakers are somewhere in the 6-10th worst team territory on talent but you never know how seasons will develop. Lonzo and Kuzma are both key players for them and they may hit the rookie wall at some point. Lopez has been healthy for a few years now but I don't think it would shock anybody if he had another major foot injury. I'd be surprised if they ended up really, really bad - like 2nd worst team behind Chicago - but 4th or 5th worst record are totally plausible outcomes depending on how lots of variables shake out.
They also have no incentive to tank, which is going to separate them as others do. It’s not like they are Brooklyn and way worse than everyone else.
I think that Doncic, Bagley, and Ayton are all potential #1 picks. For example, I could see the Kings wanting Doncic’s scoring and secondary ball handling on the wing more than a PF/C. Chicago I can see opting for a dominant center to pair up with Markkanen (who looks like a stud) or Doncic’s wing scoring and playmaking.
I love Bagley, but the “once a generation” thing is overblown. There are going to be teams that take Bagley #1, but there others that are going to go for Doncic or Ayton
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Adding Ayton or Bagley (and Hayward) to this team would be absolutely nuts. Trying not to get my hopes up but I find myself checking that Tankathon website every week.