USMNT: Watching From Outside The Arena

teddykgb

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I tried watching but I give up. It's really bad entertainment. Absolutely nobody standing out.

Credit to the manager, the US has ackear tactical plan and the players are executing it. There's a clear tactical shape and the players are sticking to it. Geigenpressing this is not, though, and there's no real attacking talent on either side to unlock anything exciting
 

Titans Bastard

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I tried watching but I give up. It's really bad entertainment. Absolutely nobody standing out.

Credit to the manager, the US has ackear tactical plan and the players are executing it. There's a clear tactical shape and the players are sticking to it. Geigenpressing this is not, though, and there's no real attacking talent on either side to unlock anything exciting
It's totally uninspiring. Two forwards as winger and no real creative players in the three-CM midfield leads to not much fun at all. US plan is long ball & press, looking for knockdowns and turnovers. It's a meaningless friendly five years from the 2022 WC. There's no reason why the staff couldn't have worked towards putting a more creative XI on the field and let them play.
 

Titans Bastard

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Steffen for Hamid
Rowe for Sapong
Arriola for Zardes

I'm assuming Rowe goes wide left and Morris switches to forward, with Arriola on the right.

This could be a slight improvement, but the CM mix is still too oriented towards destroyers. We really should have gone with a 3-5-2 with Arriola at RWB, one of the LBs at LWB, and Rowe central.
 

Titans Bastard

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Bosnia misses a penalty they shouldn't have been awarded. Zimmerman fouled a Bosnian player, but after the Bosnian had fouled Trapp.
 

Titans Bastard

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Wake me up when we have a new manager.

(Don't wake me up if it's Tab Ramos.)
 

Cellar-Door

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Italy is what an on fire Federation looks like

4 ballots no president 60% voted for "none of of these assholes" Olympic committee will run the Federation for now.
 

Cellar-Door

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Athlete's council sets up meetings with Carter, Cordeiro, Martino and Winograd. Carefull to say not necessarily their top 4, but seems like good news for Winograd to be w/ 3 of the frontrunners, and bad news for Wynalda who was/is expected to be one of those frontrunners. Rumor is that Athlete Council may vote as a bloc, which would make them incredibly powerful (Stu Holden has said based on number of candidates it may not happen, but their plan is to winnow it down to 3 and have a meeting to see if they can get a consensus, if not release voters to go their own way).
 

teddykgb

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Titans Bastard

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The quotes from Arena are outright infuriating. That part about the planets aligning is disgusting. Cameron has had injury troubles but he's been an absolute Rock for USMNT
It's genuinely too bad that Klinsmann was a poor tactician and unskilled in the art of executing ideas and projects as TD. It seems like the Soccer Gods have been doing everything in their power to prove as many of his criticisms of US soccer correct as possible.
 

cromulence

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I think we'd all be better off if we didn't obsessively check up on how Gonzalez is doing. It's just a recipe for frustration.
 

Cellar-Door

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Keeping an eye on endorsements Donna Shalala who has a vote seems pretty clear that she's voting for Cordeiro (so much for her revolution talk)

Tom Byer who I don't think has a vote officially endorsed Martino.
 

Titans Bastard

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Keeping an eye on endorsements Donna Shalala who has a vote seems pretty clear that she's voting for Cordeiro (so much for her revolution talk)

Tom Byer who I don't think has a vote officially endorsed Martino.
This article about the MN youth soccer association doesn't have a straight up endorsement, but it's another anecdotal window into how some of these state-level associations think about things. Honestly, it really hammers home how differently fans like us on this board and how (some? many?) voters on the Adult and Youth councils view the issues.

It's not just I support Idea X, you oppose Idea X....this guy just cares about totally different things.

http://fiftyfive.one/2018/02/favorites-emerge-minnesota-youth-soccer-gathers-consensus-us-soccer-presidential-vote/

The two biggest things that caught my eye:

One thing May never mentions is the U.S. men’s national team failing to qualify for the World Cup in 2018. When the subject is finally brought up, he says, “The president of U.S. Soccer has nothing to do with the U.S. not qualifying for the World Cup.” Instead, May is looking forward.
<insert the multi-facepalm gif thingy here>

As an example, May points to the Olympic Development Program (ODP), which he says has been starved and neglected. “The DAs don’t play by the same rules as us and [USSF] made ODP a second-class citizen.”

...

Some of the candidates, he says, have been good listeners. MYSA initially nominated another former player, Paul Caligiuri, because “his platform is really driven by ODP and we wanted to make sure his voice was heard.”
I can't believe it's 2018 and we're talking about bringing the importance of ODP back....
 

Titans Bastard

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There's a U18 camp from Feb 4-12 in Orlando that will include two matches against Costa Rica U18. All players are 2001s.

GK
David Ochoa (Real Salt Lake)
Jacob Schick (Chargers Soccer Club)
Kris Shakes (Philadelphia Union)

DF
Julian Araujo (Barca Academy) [note: the youth club in AZ]
Nico Benalcazar (NYCFC)
Ian Hoffmann (Karlsruhe)
Nelson Martinez (DC United)
David Mendoza (Chicago Fire)
Leonardo Sepulveda (LA Galaxy)

MF
Taylor Booth (unattached)
Cameron Duke (Sporting KC)
Roberto Hategan (Sacramento Republic)
Aidan Morris (Columbus Crew)
Owen Otasowie (Wolverhampton Wanderers)
Marcelo Palomino (Houston Dynamo)
Stuart Ritchie (Groningen)
Thomas Roberts (FC Dallas)
Indiana Vassilev (Aston Villa)

FW
Konrad de la Fuente (Barcelona) [note: this is the real one]
Jalen Hawkins (Bayern Munich)
Ulysses Llanez (LA Galaxy)
Bryan Reynolds (FC Dallas)
Jose Rivas (Columbus Crew)
Stefan Stojanovic (Sockers FC)

Some notes:
  • Taylor Booth is emerging as one of our top '01s. RSL apparently tried very hard to sign him this winter, but he is reportedly heading to Bayern. It is unclear to me whether he has the right passport to move their before his 18th birthday, which isn't until summer 2019.
  • Never seen him play, but I've seen Araujo talked up as a quality CB who might play up with the U20s by the end of the cycle.
  • Palomino has been in preseason with Houston and they're considering signing him to a pro deal
  • Indiana Vassilev has very quietly popped up in youth games for Villa this fall and this seems to confirm that he's moved to the club permanently. It's amazing how few members of our last U17 team will never play college soccer - so different from years past.
  • Thomas Roberts is a true rarity - a player from Arkansas. I don't believe that state has a single pro at any level.
  • Llanez has flirted with Mexican teams in the past but has been in US camps for a while now. I'd expect LAG to sign him to pro terms sooner rather than later.
  • Hawkins and de la Fuente are both at massive clubs but I'm not entirely sure how highly they are rated there.
 

moly99

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The two biggest things that caught my eye:

"One thing May never mentions is the U.S. men’s national team failing to qualify for the World Cup in 2018. When the subject is finally brought up, he says, “The president of U.S. Soccer has nothing to do with the U.S. not qualifying for the World Cup.” Instead, May is looking forward."

<insert the multi-facepalm gif thingy here>
Short of bribing Neymar to apply for American citizenship, what direct action can the USSF president take to ensure the USMNT qualifies for the World Cup?
 

Titans Bastard

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Short of bribing Neymar to apply for American citizenship, what direct action can the USSF president take to ensure the USMNT qualifies for the World Cup?
Hire coaches that don't suck.
 

moly99

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Hire coaches that don't suck.
None of the national team managers are really all that good, though. Look at the guys managing Brazil, England, France, etc.

Moreover a lot of the best managers in the world are good in part because of their ability to acquire players who work for them. Pep Guardiola would struggle with our national team because he wouldn't be able to buy the players he needs for his system.
 

Titans Bastard

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None of the national team managers are really all that good, though. Look at the guys managing Brazil, England, France, etc.

Moreover a lot of the best managers in the world are good in part because of their ability to acquire players who work for them. Pep Guardiola would struggle with our national team because he wouldn't be able to buy the players he needs for his system.
Ah, so we can't get Pep?

I guess we'll have to settle for the next two best managers in the world, Jurgen Klinsmann and Bruce Arena.
 

Cellar-Door

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None of the national team managers are really all that good, though. Look at the guys managing Brazil, England, France, etc.

Moreover a lot of the best managers in the world are good in part because of their ability to acquire players who work for them. Pep Guardiola would struggle with our national team because he wouldn't be able to buy the players he needs for his system.
There are many, many, many, many national team managers better than Bruce Arena. If you threw 4 darts at a world map, at least 3 land on countries with better managers than Bruce Arena (the 4th probably hits an ocean).

Though generally, many of the other player pool issues stem from programs under the President's purview anyway (youth development, youth teams where our managers also suck, recruitment in Latino communities, scouting, etc.)
 

moly99

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I guess we'll have to settle for the next two best managers in the world, Jurgen Klinsmann and Bruce Arena.
You know perfectly well that they picked Arena because they were changing horses midstream. They needed someone who was already familiar with the players. Meanwhile Klinsmann did well enough with the German national team to win the Bayern job; I agree he is not a good tactician, but if he were really a total fool then why didn't either the DFB or Bayern notice during his interviews with them?

Or, to put it another way, how much do you think Gareth Southgate or Didier Deschamps would really improve this team?

Though generally, many of the other player pool issues stem from programs under the President's purview anyway (youth development, youth teams where our managers also suck, recruitment in Latino communities, scouting, etc.)
I agree, but those things have an indirect role in our national team's fortunes. Youth coaching reforms we make today will benefit the 2030 world cup roster rather than the current roster. There's not much that Sunil Gulati or anyone else at the USSF could have done in 2017 to improve our team for the 2018 cup. Our current roster is the harvest of two decades of mismanagement of US player development.
 

Titans Bastard

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You know perfectly well that they picked Arena because they were changing horses midstream. They needed someone who was already familiar with the players. Meanwhile Klinsmann did well enough with the German national team to win the Bayern job; I agree he is not a good tactician, but if he were really a total fool then why didn't either the DFB or Bayern notice during his interviews with them?

Or, to put it another way, how much do you think Gareth Southgate or Didier Deschamps would really improve this team?
Klinsmann is an excellent bullshit artist and a huge celebrity as someone who was a major German star in his day. He got the Germany job when they were in a rebuilding phase and then parlayed the SF performance at the 2006 WC into the Bayern job. It quickly became clear that Jogi Löw was actually the brains behind the throne and, once found out, has never gotten an offer outside of the US again. (Okay, he was actually hired as an adviser to Toronto FC at one point and was instrumental in bringing in one of their worst coaches - Aron Winter.)

Yes, I think those guys would be better and I don't think I'm going out on a limb in saying so.


In this 2018 cycle, the US had a weak player pool because the cohort of players born in the first half of the 1990s totally sucks with the exception of Yedlin and Wood. (And Brooks, who was developed elsewhere.) Nonetheless, the US could have muddled through with better management. Unfortunately, the USMNT was coached poorly throughout, so the player pool deficiencies couldn't be overcome.

Just because Sunil isn't singularly responsible for the state of the player pool doesn't mean he should get a pass for the things he is singularly responsible for. We know that Gulati had a man-crush on Klinsmann for ages and was trying to hire him as far back as 2006.

Arena wasn't a crazy hire to make at the time and although uninspiring, I thought it was okay when it happened. But he had a very, very basic job - keep it simple & coherent tactically and man-manage well. He got the tactics badly wrong against T&T and it's increasingly clear that he lost half the locker room.

Let's put it this way. Gulati has hired three managers and you could make a fairly compelling case that Bob Bradley was the best one.



Moving past USMNT manager debates, I want to address what is truly the larger issue here. Gulati can't help solve the problems of US soccer when he is unable or unwilling acknowledge them. If you really think that the USMNT failed to qualify because of a bad game against T&T, you aren't even close to being prepared to address our issues.

Sunil has a really, really hard time with accountability. Klinsmann got a new contract before the 2014 WC and then Gulati pulled the trigger way too late. (The 2015 GC was a real canary in the coal mine, IMO.) At the youth national team level, it's just as bad if not worse. Tab Ramos, a good old NJ guy, is the youth technical director. Richie Williams, another good old NJ guy, was placed in charge of the U17s for a second cycle despite abject failure. Our chief scout is so incompetent that he's been running around lying about his efforts to recruit Jonathan Gonzalez. By far our most successful youth coach (Hugo Perez) was pushed out because he clashed with people like Richie and Tab. The management of the past TWO Olympic cycles has been embarrassingly bad. Coaches have been hired far too late in the cycle and they and their teams have been unprepared. In 2012, Porter was hired way too late. In 2016, Herzog clearly didn't have a strong grasp of the player pool.

Sunil can't see this. He can't see why the USMNT actually failed to qualify. That's why his speech was (mostly) self-serving crap, and that's why his delusional comment about the T&T is so concerning coming from a USSF president.
 

Royal Reader

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Or, to put it another way, how much do you think Gareth Southgate or Didier Deschamps would really improve this team?
The thing with Southgate is that a) He's England's own version of the Arena hire, a guy they got mid-campaign because of the name manager's departure and b) he's actually a reasonably good fit because England are trying to be more like Belgium, ie have a footballing philosophy that permeates all levels from the U16s up.

So specifically hiring Southgate for the US would do nothing, but having a USSF president with a vision of how American soccer teams should play, hiring an MNT coach congruent with that vision, and being able to find and appoint people to work with MLS clubs and colleges to make sure the development structure produces players who work with that structure is something which can make a difference in the medium term. In the short term, there are dozens of itinerant national team coaches, and some are much better than others.
 

allstonite

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Martino was interviewed on The Ringer FC podcast and I thought came off extremely well. He had a lot of plans and went into detail on what he thought we should do. I'm not nearly smart enough to know how realistic they were or how well it would work but he sounded well prepared and open to trying new things. Much better than Carter when she was on Simmons giving boring "we need to do better" answers.

That interview plus the hair and he has my vote.
 

67YAZ

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...but having a USSF president with a vision of how American soccer teams should play...
We don’t need a USSF President with a vision about how the teams play. We need a president that hired a technical director with that vision, provides him/her with the resources to do the job, and also hold him/her accountable for hitting benchmarks along the way. The president’s job is as much - maybe even more so - about the business-side of things and keeping all the disparate stakeholders happy and invested.
 

Titans Bastard

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A few tidbits from this piece about the election

Here I’ll cite the sentiment I’ve heard from more than one veteran insider: “Anyone who tells you they know who’s going to win this thing is lying to you.”
It's not just hard to handicap the race: I think it's also hard to know who will actually do a good job in the role. I'm rooting for Martino, but how can we really be confident about who will be best?


We knew that Cordeiro's choice to run ruffled Gulati's feathers, but I hadn't heard this before:

It’s important to note that Cordeiro announced his candidacy before Gulati decided not to run again. And according to multiple SoccerWire sources, that situation led to a nasty behind-the-scenes clash, with Gulati seeing Cordeiro’s decision to run as a betrayal. In this version of events, Cordeiro thought he had the support of MLS and its Commissioner Don Garber when he threw his hat in the ring, only for Gulati to go to Garber and engineer Carter’s entry in the race to stymie Cordeiro’s hopes.
Cordeiro hasn't been the loudest voice in the room, but he's a guy who was able to knock off a sitting USSF VP in a competitive election not too long ago. He might know the USSF voter landscape better than anyone else and I wonder how much support he's quietly built up.
 

Titans Bastard

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NWSL votes are going to Carter.



MLS+NWSL is a little less than 20% of the total vote.
 

Titans Bastard

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It's a mess! They say they are only receiving votes from about 80% of the keypads so are re-voting the first round.
 

Titans Bastard

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Dramatic pause as the system tabulates the votes....

CORDEIRO - 36.3%
CARTER - 34.6%
WYNALDA - 13%

Wow, no one all that close to 50%.
 

Titans Bastard

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15 minute breaks between voting rounds. Wheeling and dealing begins!

I believe they said there would be three rounds in which everybody could participate. After that the worst-finish candidate gets kicked off.
 

Titans Bastard

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Caligiuri has withdrawn, as one would probably do if you finished behind Hope Solo. His 0.5% of the vote is up for grabs!
 

Titans Bastard

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With Cordeiro and Carter combining for just over 70%, it's hard to see anyone else winning.
 

Titans Bastard

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Round 2 results:



Cordeiro gains 5%. Carter down a little. Martino up a little, Wynalda down a bit.

Winograd drops out.

I got it wrong earlier - after next round, bottom two are forced to drop out. If no one leaves voluntarily, that'll be Solo and Gans.
 

Titans Bastard

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It's clearly going to be Cordeiro or Carter at this point.

Unless Cordeiro loses support for some reason, Carter will really need to clean up among Martino/Wynalda/Gans/Solo voters in order to win. Very hard to see that happening.

Cordeiro has to be seen as the heavy favorite now.
 

DJnVa

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It's clearly going to be Cordeiro or Carter at this point.

Unless Cordeiro loses support for some reason, Carter will really need to clean up among Martino/Wynalda/Gans/Solo voters in order to win. Very hard to see that happening.

Cordeiro has to be seen as the heavy favorite now.
Thoughts on him in vacuum and him vs. Carter?
 

Titans Bastard

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It's Cordeiro on the third ballot winning with 68%.

Carter down to 10%, so for whatever reason a significant chunk of the Pro Council must have switched - even MLS since they represent over 14% on their own.
 

Titans Bastard

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Thoughts on him in vacuum and him vs. Carter?
He ran as both an insider and an outsider. He's not a sweeping change candidate, but he has shown some willingness to upset the apple cart by running against and defeating an incumbent USSF VP in the past. Of course, being ambitious and disruptive to further his personal standing is one thing and creating change across the system is another.

I really don't know how good he'll be as president. There's a wide range of outcomes.

Although he's an insider-y candidate who will be permanently unpopular in some quarters, I think there's a better chance of a Cordeiro presidency avoiding incessant bickering and division than there would have been in a Carter or Wynalda presidency. That will hopefully make the experience of being a US soccer fan a little less miserable. I personally think the SUM connection needs more transparency but isn't as insidious as some make it out to be, but it's unquestionable that having Carter around would have deepened the already toxic feelings in the US soccer fanbase.

Neither were my candidate, but I would have supported Cordeiro over Carter.

I don't think it will be possible to get a true sense of Cordeiro until we see how he handles the technical side of US soccer. What sort of TD or GM role will be created and who will he hire?
 

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Given that an establishment candidate was going to win, this is the better choice. I think we needed a nearly clean break from business as usual, and this ain’t it. You’re right tho TB- what he does with the on field stuff is what will be the most important.
 

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Cordeiro was probably my second choice, so I'm pretty happy he won over Carter. I was kinda Anyone But Carter - and was shocked she lined up the NWSL vote like that. If the NWSL was going to just vote for a woman on principle, which I understand, at least make it one of your own.

Now I'm hoping Cordeiro keeps Martino around to actually help him get shit done.
 

Titans Bastard

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This is potentially a very good development, though of course it depends on who is hired and how much leeway they are given to make changes.

As a separate issue, there is also some advocacy to hire a separate GM for the women's side. We'll see if that happens.

Cordeiro will need to cut this shit out, though (this was tweeted today, but is referencing the candidates' forum several weeks ago):

 

Cellar-Door

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Cordeiro was probably my second choice, so I'm pretty happy he won over Carter. I was kinda Anyone But Carter - and was shocked she lined up the NWSL vote like that. If the NWSL was going to just vote for a woman on principle, which I understand, at least make it one of your own.

Now I'm hoping Cordeiro keeps Martino around to actually help him get shit done.
So a note, NWSL vote, like MLS is owners not players. A lot of overlap between the 2 groups, and NWSL has a relationship with SUM as well. Nobody should be surprised Carter got NWSL.
Cordeiro was the establishment candidate I prefer if for no other reason than he has had some clear positions, and shown a nuanced understanding of how things work (he had literally the only position of the bunch on pay equality that made any sense). He's an insider, but not AS indebted to Garber and company.

Though, really the board and life members are the biggest problem, and no real way to get rid of them without a convenient string of "accidents", or someone digging up legal issues.
 

moly99

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My wish-list of changes for the USSF to improve the USMNT:
  • We must cut the cost of training for coaches though the USSF's programs.
  • Coaching in the Development Academy is currently provided by the clubs, whereas Germany's Talent Development Program is run by 1,200 DFB-paid coaches. The USSF needs to provide coaches to work with players in the DA and ensure that the competition is organized so as to develop skilled players.
  • We need to persuade MLS to yield on solidarity payments, thus helping to convince youth/amateur teams to develop players skills instead of focusing purely on wins and losses.
  • All MLS teams should be required to have an academy and provide a certain percentage of their minutes on the season to Homegrown Players. (It's worth noting that Toronto and Seattle are both in the top 5 teams for minutes for HGP's; this shouldn't hurt teams much.)
 

Titans Bastard

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My wish-list of changes for the USSF to improve the USMNT:
  • We must cut the cost of training for coaches though the USSF's programs.
  • Coaching in the Development Academy is currently provided by the clubs, whereas Germany's Talent Development Program is run by 1,200 DFB-paid coaches. The USSF needs to provide coaches to work with players in the DA and ensure that the competition is organized so as to develop skilled players.
  • We need to persuade MLS to yield on solidarity payments, thus helping to convince youth/amateur teams to develop players skills instead of focusing purely on wins and losses.
  • All MLS teams should be required to have an academy and provide a certain percentage of their minutes on the season to Homegrown Players. (It's worth noting that Toronto and Seattle are both in the top 5 teams for minutes for HGP's; this shouldn't hurt teams much.)
A couple of notes on this:
  • My understanding is that the real roadblock to solidarity payments and training compensation is the MLS players' union, not the league itself.
  • All MLS teams do have an academy. I'm leery of mandating minutes for academy products for a variety of reasons. It opens the door to all sorts of MLS-y rule disputes. What happens when a few academy products expected to play a lot get injured? Or sold? Does the club get some special dispensation and, if so, what are the conditions for those sorts of dispensations? What's the punishment for failing to meet this requirement? Also, doesn't this punish smaller-market clubs with less raw population to draw from? I think MLS should be throwing out more carrots for clubs to invest in, play, and sell youth, rather than using sticks.