......traded Jacoby when they knew Jimmy G was not going to sign a long-term contract.
Week 13 NFL game thread
- Thread starter Ale Xander
- Start date
I don't know the rules of Pop Warner and high school football, but at some point in their development players learn (or are taught) to lead with their helmets and get rewarded for it. HS and college should institute automatic ejection and suspension for players leading with their helmets, period.
There's a 0% chance the macho af NFL gets rid of helmets even if it means the death of the sport.
Yeah I agree, that's basically what I meant. The players were disgraceful in that game last night.
Not a good few days for the NFL. I hate the Steelers, Tomlin and their macho crap...and JuJu standing over a prone Burfict was reprehensible, particularly in a game where a teammate sustained a spinal injury. Good to hear him called out by McDonough.
But it's a "Streetfight," "AFC North" football. And Brown calling Burfict's injury "Karma."
Wish a reporter had asked him if the Shazier injury was karma as well.
But it's a "Streetfight," "AFC North" football. And Brown calling Burfict's injury "Karma."
Wish a reporter had asked him if the Shazier injury was karma as well.
As it usually is, it's the obvious answer....."because they don't think Brissett is all that good."
No one leads with their head at the youth level, and they certainly aren't taught to do so. In fact, there is a huge "heads up" education effort being done there.
The issue is that these kids get mixed messages, being taught one thing but seeing the best players in the world do another, with minimal repercussions. Not only does the league need to embrace targeting, but they need to start calling spearing again. It's a bit of a strange penalty, because it's often called on the player that gets hurt--last night, Shazier "should" have been called for spearing. But the fact is, what he did was a textbook example of how not to tackle, and it should be penalized every time, regardless of how bad we feel for him.
Good point about the glancing blow.
Even Shazier went in head first last night.
Another "how the game is played" part is the 4-hour erection that coaches get and share with their players over the *sound* of a hard hit. That's also something I recall reading many years ago as part of a discussion to making pads and helmets less hard. A A lot of coaches get off on that sound. And too many HS coaches think they're the next Bear Bryant.
I will echo what BMHH stated. At no point in youth, or HS football are players taught to lead with their helmets. Head down, yes. Using head as a weapon (or leading with head), no. Not even close. Players are taught that they have to keep their body low, head to the side (helmet upfield), and drive through the hit/tackle with their shoulders.
When I coached both youth and HS, every single year we showed a video on how to tackle/hit properly, and what the ramifications are for not following that procedure. Same video, same kids, every year. Trust me, it sinks in for 90+% of them.
No is it possible that leading with the head is learned, from watching NFL or college players? Sure, it is possible. But some kids just never learn.
I figured that was the case and it's good to know. So sounds like harsher penalties in college and especially the NFL are the way to go.
I dont know if UNH still has the occasional helmet-less practice.
https://www.unh.edu/unhtoday/2016/04/game-changer
This is where the NFL talks the talk without walking the walk(I hate that expression, but it fits here). Enforcing targeting and spearing ejections, just like strict compliance with concussion protocol(which I still believe they're soft on) will result in stars missing time. The teams don't want that, and, in the end, the league really doesn't want that. And fans, even those who wring their hands about head injuries, don't want that if it affects their fantasy teams. Or their favorite team's playoff chances.
This is why it's tougher to do than in college, where it's less star driven and more "next man up." But it's still a very important next step if the NFL is at all serious about the problem.
This is why it's tougher to do than in college, where it's less star driven and more "next man up." But it's still a very important next step if the NFL is at all serious about the problem.
Juju aside, though, aren't the majority of targeting/spearing plays done by defensive players? If so, that'd mitigate your fantasy/stars point a good bit.
Tomlin left JJSS in the game after the penalty. I wouldn't pull him for the hit, but definitely the taunting to send him a message. I would suspect Belichick would've done the same.
reporting from a couple different places, Shazier told a teammate he had some feeling in his legs as they were moving him and now he's got some movement in his lower extremities.
Surgery is not necessary at this time, they're hoping to take him back to Pittsburgh I think today. Starting to see reports a teammate texted him last night at the hospital and he responded.
Some outlets were reporting a spinal contusion, a number of them have revised to a spinal concussion. Steelersdepot has an article written by a board certified surgeon about the differences between the two. Two different steelers have had spinal concussions in the past, Tommy Maddox and Big Ben.
Really mixed feelings about my team and the sport in general these days. Burfict is and will always remain a punk and Bengals gonna Bungle. Not even being able to watch the game last night just followed on Gameday type pages, still winced and got several steps closer to "screw it I'm done".
There is some tech being developed to try to combat the blows to the head, such as padding that goes over the hard shell, but there's resistance, lots of it ego based (think I recall someone saying the larger helmet made them look like the great gazoo).
Just don't know anymore. Guess I'm glad my son isn't interested in playing football.
edit: Yeah Juju's hit was a step past what is acceptable since the implementation of the Hines Ward rule, and the taunting crap absolutely has to go.
Surgery is not necessary at this time, they're hoping to take him back to Pittsburgh I think today. Starting to see reports a teammate texted him last night at the hospital and he responded.
Some outlets were reporting a spinal contusion, a number of them have revised to a spinal concussion. Steelersdepot has an article written by a board certified surgeon about the differences between the two. Two different steelers have had spinal concussions in the past, Tommy Maddox and Big Ben.
Really mixed feelings about my team and the sport in general these days. Burfict is and will always remain a punk and Bengals gonna Bungle. Not even being able to watch the game last night just followed on Gameday type pages, still winced and got several steps closer to "screw it I'm done".
There is some tech being developed to try to combat the blows to the head, such as padding that goes over the hard shell, but there's resistance, lots of it ego based (think I recall someone saying the larger helmet made them look like the great gazoo).
Just don't know anymore. Guess I'm glad my son isn't interested in playing football.
edit: Yeah Juju's hit was a step past what is acceptable since the implementation of the Hines Ward rule, and the taunting crap absolutely has to go.
Agreed been coaching youth 4 years. And we spend 20 mins EVERY practice on 4 Step tackle progression which emphasizes keeping there heads up. I as a coach (usually specializing as a DC) also pull any kid I see "Leading with their head". Its not a policy (Yet) but its something our league is working towards.
I agree that the LWTH problem is part NFL/College where "Big Hitters" are rewarded and complimented AND because of "common sense". These kids (at MS and HS) figure out pretty easily that Leaving their feet and hitting with their helmet causes all kinds "of good things" (Fumbles, big hits, putting other players out). We as coaches need to reinforce that "leading with your head/Bad tackling technique" leads to bad things. (Hopefully only as minor as riding the bench. and ass chewings.)
I think until coaches at all levels (particularly youth/MS and HS) take some responsibility and discipline players (even when they "Save the TD by stoning a player on the 1) when they lead with the head then this will continue.
I agree that the LWTH problem is part NFL/College where "Big Hitters" are rewarded and complimented AND because of "common sense". These kids (at MS and HS) figure out pretty easily that Leaving their feet and hitting with their helmet causes all kinds "of good things" (Fumbles, big hits, putting other players out). We as coaches need to reinforce that "leading with your head/Bad tackling technique" leads to bad things. (Hopefully only as minor as riding the bench. and ass chewings.)
I think until coaches at all levels (particularly youth/MS and HS) take some responsibility and discipline players (even when they "Save the TD by stoning a player on the 1) when they lead with the head then this will continue.
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Perhaps the dumbest thing from last night was that CIN could only accept the taunting penalty or the personal foul for the hit on Burfict. I get the taunting penalty is slightly more serious since it can lead to ejection (which is a joke in and of itself). But if you hit someone illegally in the head, taunt them and they leave on the stretcher, a single 15yd penalty feels a little light.
Just saw something on another forum, that hit is being described as an illegal peel back block on a number of media outlets, and per the description in the rules that doesn't appear to apply.
ARTICLE 4. ILLEGAL “PEEL BACK” BLOCK
An offensive player cannot initiate contact on the side and below the waist against an opponent if:
Penalty: For illegal “peel back” block: Loss of 15 yards.
Burfict was running laterally towards the sideline, I think the hit would have been legal if there hadn't been helmet to helmet in it.
The fact that JJSS got some helmet to helmet in the course of the hit is an unnecessary roughness. It's clear he was aiming to hit with his shoulder and got some helmet. And the taunting foul is basically textbook.
(Note: not excusing, but it's a more productive discussion to have while I wait to hear how Shazier is doing)
ARTICLE 4. ILLEGAL “PEEL BACK” BLOCK
An offensive player cannot initiate contact on the side and below the waist against an opponent if:
- the blocker is moving toward his own end line; and
- he approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.
Penalty: For illegal “peel back” block: Loss of 15 yards.
Burfict was running laterally towards the sideline, I think the hit would have been legal if there hadn't been helmet to helmet in it.
The fact that JJSS got some helmet to helmet in the course of the hit is an unnecessary roughness. It's clear he was aiming to hit with his shoulder and got some helmet. And the taunting foul is basically textbook.
(Note: not excusing, but it's a more productive discussion to have while I wait to hear how Shazier is doing)
There were people in Europe a few years back designing and marketing "air bags" for bicyclists. The looked like scarfs when worn around the neck and deployed instantly with certain specific inertial forces.
Generally - that's a ridiculous notion for football players, BUT - if something like that could be calibrated in a manner that deployment would only occur during (mostly) illegal hits - maybe it could save some people as well as serve to train players what the limits of their attack can be.
I have no idea how it would be tuned to a football environment - but I'm thinking there are some pretty smart engineers out there that could investigate the possibility.
Generally - that's a ridiculous notion for football players, BUT - if something like that could be calibrated in a manner that deployment would only occur during (mostly) illegal hits - maybe it could save some people as well as serve to train players what the limits of their attack can be.
I have no idea how it would be tuned to a football environment - but I'm thinking there are some pretty smart engineers out there that could investigate the possibility.
Amongst other things that could be done -- how about two personal fouls on a single play is an automatic ejection.
I also think there could be grounds for both coaches being suspended. What happened last night was ridiculous and it's not the first time.
IMO, Should have been 2 penalties:
-During the play, unnecessary roughness.
-After the play, unsportsmanlike conduct-taunting
Not sure if those can happen per NFL rules
It was 2 penalties and the unnecessary roughness was declined because CIN couldn't accept 2 15yd penalties on the same play, hence my this is really stupid comment.
Like the baseball manager who gets automatically tossed with the pitcher after a post-warning HBP.
(although I dont think I've ever seen a football coach get ejected. That would be some kind of mayhem.
Although buried deeply in the Patriots' Book of Stuff, there's probably a few pages of "In case BB gets ejected, the following protocols shall be observed...."))
My poorly worded point was that if 1 penalty was ruled to occur after the play was over, would it be a 2nd penalty on 1 play. My wording sucks, my theory probably sucks as well. But I think that it should be allowed to happen (the 2 penalties on 1 play thing).
Seriously, if you have done something egregious, and know you got flagged for it, you could continue to accumulate penalties without harming your team (aside from a possible/likely ejection/suspension etc).
It's never happened because coaches weren't included in unsportsmanlike penalties. That changed this season. Along with the "2 and your out". So it could happen.......
I don't think that is clear at all. He lowered his head and, imo, clearly was looking to hit with helmet and shoulder up high. Clearly looking to injure.
Should have looked before I posted. Surprised the Giants didn't pass the hat before a game to take up a collection for a player to go batshit during a game and get McAdoo ejected.
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 1m1 minute ago
#Steelers WR JuJu Smith-Schuster & #Bengals S George Iloka have each been suspended 1 game for violations of safety-related playing rules.
#Steelers WR JuJu Smith-Schuster & #Bengals S George Iloka have each been suspended 1 game for violations of safety-related playing rules.
All the talk about reducing head injuries revolves around the equipment on the players heads. But I’ve always wondered if there should be consideration for the shoulder pads too.
Shoulder pads are significantly smaller than they have ever been. Just google any WR or DB that played in the 1990s or previously. I’m assuming that the shoulder pads are smaller to allow for greater ease of movement and it’s probably easier to run faster with less bulky things on your shoulders.
Going back to the large shoulder pad era may accomplish two things:
1. Give defensive players something else besides their heads to hit people with.
2. Slow the players down
Again assuming that slower speeds equal less head injuries. It’s probably a non-starter since offense rules the day, drives fantasy football and viewers. But if large shoulder pads slow all players equally than does it really matter if the game is slower? I’m sure there would be other negative effects, like making contouring yourself to catch a pass harder.
I could be wayyy out in left field on this one. But going back to the bulky shoulder pads seems like there is at least some potential to drive a reduction in head injuries
Shoulder pads are significantly smaller than they have ever been. Just google any WR or DB that played in the 1990s or previously. I’m assuming that the shoulder pads are smaller to allow for greater ease of movement and it’s probably easier to run faster with less bulky things on your shoulders.
Going back to the large shoulder pad era may accomplish two things:
1. Give defensive players something else besides their heads to hit people with.
2. Slow the players down
Again assuming that slower speeds equal less head injuries. It’s probably a non-starter since offense rules the day, drives fantasy football and viewers. But if large shoulder pads slow all players equally than does it really matter if the game is slower? I’m sure there would be other negative effects, like making contouring yourself to catch a pass harder.
I could be wayyy out in left field on this one. But going back to the bulky shoulder pads seems like there is at least some potential to drive a reduction in head injuries
It’s not just shoulder pads, either. I mean, look at some of the WRs and DBs. Some of them have these tiny little thigh pads and may or not have knee pads at all. Since taking a knee to the head can indeed cause a concussion, larger knee pads would appear to help that. Not to mention that they might slow the players down, if only a tiny bit.
During one of the NFL games this past weekend (might have been the Pats game?) they showed a new type of helmet that is being used by a couple college teams. It had sort of a corrugated inner layer, instead of the air bladder. Supposedly it has tested real well in preventing concussions, or at least reducing the blows to the brain.
During one of the NFL games this past weekend (might have been the Pats game?) they showed a new type of helmet that is being used by a couple college teams. It had sort of a corrugated inner layer, instead of the air bladder. Supposedly it has tested real well in preventing concussions, or at least reducing the blows to the brain.
Having more bulk may give defensive players something other than their heads to hit with, but it also gives them more bulk with which to hit offensive players in the head(intentionally or unintentionally). In fact, with everyone having increased surface area, there will be more contact in general. I don't think that ultimately would be good.
My density level is high today.. So the coach has to get the PFs? Its not a "you, too," like in baseball? Oh well.
I am in the minority here, but thought JuJu put on a clean hit. VIOLENT, but clean. Impact was primarily JuJu shoulder to Burfict Sternum. Definitely some contact with sides of each helmet, but not leading with the head at all, and blocking a definite could be tackler. Standing over and taunting after the Shazier play was ugly and deserved a flag, but not sure this kid deserves a game suspension. The only one that looked like legit suspension to me was Iloka.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/juju-smith-schuster-injures-vontaze-burfict-on-blindside-block-and-everyone-is-furious/
The first clip you see his head move left just before impact. That angle you almost doubt helmet to helmet.
The second slo mo clip the helmet to helmet is very apparent, and the right side of JJSS' head hits Burfict's head at about the same time his right shoulder hits Burfict on the left side of his chest.
I personally don't see intent to injure, others may interpret differently. Never launched, his feet were planted and he went up on his toes.
Curious to see how the appeal/no appeal plays out and whether JJSS or Iloka will be successful.
The first clip you see his head move left just before impact. That angle you almost doubt helmet to helmet.
The second slo mo clip the helmet to helmet is very apparent, and the right side of JJSS' head hits Burfict's head at about the same time his right shoulder hits Burfict on the left side of his chest.
I personally don't see intent to injure, others may interpret differently. Never launched, his feet were planted and he went up on his toes.
Curious to see how the appeal/no appeal plays out and whether JJSS or Iloka will be successful.
In the last preseason game BB has the coordinators take off the 2nd half so that the next in line assumes command, but I don't think he has anyone take over for him...
I'm having trouble squaring the JuJu suspension with Jarvis Landry not being suspended last year for his hit on Aaron Williams, but maybe the taunting was the differentiator. They might have to get rid of these crackback blocks though. Someone is going to get messed up.
The Floyd block in Miami last year: if that happened this year do you think he gets suspended?
That wasn't even a penalty. He was running sideline to sideline and the contact was 100% shoulder. If not a penalty, how would it be a fine or suspension? Clean, legal hit, though one the competition committee may outlaw this coming offseason
Clean legal hit at the time; but I do believe they've already changed the rules on that type of hit.
This is what the point of emphasis was for this year
- Blindside blocks that occur when a blocker is running toward or parallel to his own endline and he blocks a player in a defenseless posture in the head or neck area. In these instances, the legal target area is above the waist and below the neck.
Always a good day when someone posts the Floyd Block.
I agree, but they shouldn't have fired Crennel, either.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21678678/juju-smith-schuster-pittsburgh-steelers-george-iloka-cincinnati-bengals-suspended-1-game
Not sure if this was posted yet, but Juju and Iloka have both been suspended for one game.
Not sure if this was posted yet, but Juju and Iloka have both been suspended for one game.
From the sounds of it (i.e. talk radio) the JuJu suspension was just as much for the taunting than the hit itself. The NFL's statement apparently alluded to it a couple times.
edit.....words
edit.....words
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Yeah the league had no choice but to suspend JuJu. I could be convinced that the hit itself was maybe legal, or right on the edge based on the rule as written and, under normal circumstances, worthy of nothing more than a fine. But in a game in which one of your teammates was carted off the field with what sure as shit looked like a spinal cord injury, you cannot stand over a guy you just demolished and taunt him when it's obvious he's hurt.
Edit: spinal cord, not chord
Edit: spinal cord, not chord
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Agreed, the taunting was the thing that really stood out about that, the helmet hit was not as obvious depending on which camera angle you saw. Iloka's hit was actually more blatant IMHO, but there was no taunting or other factors.
To take it a step further, since he's a rookie this can also be viewed as setting him straight with a sharp lesson early to establish for him where the line is. For a player described as a bigger faster version of Hines Ward or Anquan Boldin I could see that being part of the NFL's thinking.
It's also, given the victim, a no vigilante justice ruling, too. The league doesn't care if you take out Suh or Burfict or any other bad actor; the punishment will be the same.