What will D-Dom do before the trade deadline?

Hm, whaddayall think?

  • Stand Pat 1. Go through the season with the roster as it is today until rosters expand

    Votes: 9 4.4%
  • Stand Pat 2. Release Pablo, Peralta and bring up Devers before expansion

    Votes: 55 27.0%
  • Stand Pat 3. BROCK HOLT!!!! to the rescue

    Votes: 18 8.8%
  • Trade for a 3rd baseman

    Votes: 55 27.0%
  • Trade for bullpen help

    Votes: 65 31.9%
  • Trade for starting pitching....EdRod isn't coming back this season....

    Votes: 2 1.0%

  • Total voters
    204

AB in DC

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They didn't do nothing, they did something awhile ago. They signed and traded for and promoted a lot of players over the past few years. This in turn took away their flexibility by putting them close to the tax limit and leaving them without a lot of top prospects.
Worth noting:

Sale, Pomeranz, Kimbrel: 11.3 fWAR
All other Red Sox pitchers combined: 5.7 fWAR
 

JohntheBaptist

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Wow. Looking at some of the other deals and thinking that either:

Other teams have really low opinions of our prospects.

Or

Dombrowski really didn't do a very good job here.

Or

The financial constraints on Dombrowski are stricter than we are calculating here on this board.
I'm going with option number three. The Ramirez and Sandoval signings really did a number on their ability to stay flexible going into this window they've opened. Ramirez could still go on a tear sometime this year I guess, but it feels like playing him in the field is going to slow that down. Just way too little value for ~$190mil.

Ah well.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Wow. Looking at some of the other deals and thinking that either:

Other teams have really low opinions of our prospects.
.
Or our prospects just aren't very good and their low opinions are accurate. If Devers graduates this year, our farm may well be in the bottom 5.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Or our prospects just aren't very good and their low opinions are accurate. If Devers graduates this year, our farm may well be in the bottom 5.
I would say that the system was devoured of it's top talent in the way it should have been used. DD went out and traded premium prospects for premium talent that can help at the major league level. Getting Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz cost a lot of prospect capital and each move was the right one to make at the time. Now it's the FO's job to build the system back up.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Missing out on getting Duda for very little was a blunder. Tampa will only have to pay him about $3 million and gave up very little to get him. He would have fixed the gaping hole at first base and given this team the power bat they need.

Duda OPS+ last 5 years:
2013: 118
2014: 137
2015: 130
2016: 91 (injured, only 47 games)
2017: 134

Moreland OPS+ last 5 years:
2013: 99
2014: 80 (only 52 games)
2015: 116
2016: 88
2017: 92

Duda is a much better hitter than Moreland, even if Moreland's swing wasn't messed up from his injury. But it is messed up, and he is a black hole, making the difference even greater.

Duda was a big miss.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I would say that the system was devoured of it's top talent in the way it should have been used. DD went out and traded premium prospects for premium talent that can help at the major league level. Getting Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz cost a lot of prospect capital and each move was the right one to make at the time. Now it's the FO's job to build the system back up.
As much as I love prospects, I agree. 2017 will go a long way in determining the state of the Redsox farm system going forward. Trading middling prospects for cap space in the IFA should help. It looks like they also got lucky with Bryan Mata and possibly Pedro Castellanos given the signing restrictions placed on them. Victor Acosta looks like he might be living up to some of his potential too. Given what is down on the farm, it's actually been a pretty positive year.
 

Sampo Gida

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I'm going with option number three. The Ramirez and Sandoval signings really did a number on their ability to stay flexible going into this window they've opened. Ramirez could still go on a tear sometime this year I guess, but it feels like playing him in the field is going to slow that down. Just way too little value for ~$190mil.

Ah well.
Not even including 22 million off the books for Craig and Castillo.

Red sox have always been willing to go over then LT when needed though. The threshold has been stagnant for almost 6 years with continued and robust revenue growth. 5 million tax should not kill them. Obviously going way over under the new CBA is prohibitive, but we arent close to those limits

I dont know what revenue projections there are for going deep in the playoffs, but I remember reading in the WSJ that the Yankees got 70 million in additional revenue for going deep in the post season vs not making it into the post season. Red Sox should be half that. Problem is , except for 2013 the Red Sox since after 2008 have not won a single postseason game. Doing so would more than cover any tax
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Not even including 22 million off the books for Craig and Castillo.

Red sox have always been willing to go over then LT when needed though. The threshold has been stagnant for almost 6 years with continued and robust revenue growth. 5 million tax should not kill them. Obviously going way over under the new CBA is prohibitive, but we arent close to those limits

I dont know what revenue projections there are for going deep in the playoffs, but I remember reading in the WSJ that the Yankees got 70 million in additional revenue for going deep in the post season vs not making it into the post season. Red Sox should be half that. Problem is , except for 2013 the Red Sox since after 2008 have not won a single postseason game. Doing so would more than cover any tax
The problem is they don't want to pay the repeater tax. Which is a lot of money. I can't blame them. This isn't the team you want to pay that amount of money for.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Missing out on getting Duda for very little was a blunder.
I agree. Most years Duda would fetch just enough that I'd understand not going after him. Maybe it was money, maybe NYM liked TB's #30 prospect more than what we'd have to offer, but not doing it because of Moreland's presence seems like a definite missed opportunity to me, too.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I dont know what revenue projections there are for going deep in the playoffs, but I remember reading in the WSJ that the Yankees got 70 million in additional revenue for going deep in the post season vs not making it into the post season. Red Sox should be half that. Problem is , except for 2013 the Red Sox since after 2008 have not won a single postseason game. Doing so would more than cover any tax
It isn't just about money any more with the luxury tax. Going over will cost draft slots. Under the new CBA, exceeding the cap will drop the team's first pick 10 spots. If the team's already going to be in the 20-30 range (i.e. a playoff team), then turning that into a 30-40 range pick instead could have some consequences on building the farm for the future.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Duda and JD Martinez are near top decile hitters at their positions. They got less for them than some of these relievers fetched. Both would have started for Boston

The way to think about this: are the Red Sox one of the best teams? Can they win the pennant?
A: they are at best fourth best team in AL.
A: no
 

MikeM

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You should take a few minutes to browse this: http://www.mlbplayers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=34000&ATCLID=211078089

Maybe start with the luxury tax stuff.

Or more specifically, where/who was the guy being moved that should of been enough to convince us against taking the reset this year.

I like Reed more then adding Robertson's contract, and while we can/will pick away at the lack of Duda interest for the rest of the season (which had absolutely nothing to do with $$$ imo), it's not like there were a ton of speculative misses happening that didn't require a lot of reaching to make it fit.
 

JimD

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I'm going with option number three. The Ramirez and Sandoval signings really did a number on their ability to stay flexible going into this window they've opened. Ramirez could still go on a tear sometime this year I guess, but it feels like playing him in the field is going to slow that down. Just way too little value for ~$190mil.
Not even including 22 million off the books for Craig and Castillo.
That $30 million salary this year for David Price isn't helping either.
 

grimshaw

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A rental reliever to me seems like the final piece if the playoffs are a given. They really aren't at this point like they were a week or so ago.

On the flip side, they don't need to go all in this year since the window is still open.
But still - mildly disappointing.
 

chawson

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Tough to trade for catchers midseason, but an extremely inexpensive and extremely productive Tyler Flowers would have fit in well, especially considering his connection to Sale and the fact that we could have had him for nothing next year.

Or, if the Braves wanted to keep him, the guy he's splitting time with, a seemingly resurgent Kurt Suzuki, who's hit as many home runs this month as our entire starting outfield.
 

MikeM

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A rental reliever to me seems like the final piece if the playoffs are a given. They really aren't at this point like they were a week or so ago.

On the flip side, they don't need to go all in this year since the window is still open.
But still - mildly disappointing.
I'm mildly disappointed as well, but DD did get the relief help I thought he would, and it's not like I was seeing any offensive upgrades I really wanted after Duda came off the board anyway.

At least Frazier is only slugging 303 since becoming a Yankee, so there is always that to go look at when I'm pouting about our own failure to add more offense.
 

tonyarmasjr

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I don't really think all that much has changed in a week. The Price and Pedroia injuries could certainly make a big difference. But on the flip side, Devers and Nunez and some possible signs of life from Moreland and Bogaerts are positives for the offense which is the key to making the playoffs. I don't see the Sox playing .333 ball or the yankees .833 the rest of the way, so the 3 game swing in the standings over the last week doesn't spell gloom and doom to me like it seems to for some others here.
 

patoaflac

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Duda and JD Martinez are near top decile hitters at their positions. They got less for them than some of these relievers fetched. Both would have started for Boston

The way to think about this: are the Red Sox one of the best teams? Can they win the pennant?
A: they are at best fourth best team in AL.
A: no
If this is true, why did they acquire Nuñez and Reed. They should have been sellers.
I agree with Plympton 91, DD didn´t do a good job.
I don´t want a marginal better team that gets into the post-season and is swept by the Astors or worst the yanks. I prefer no post-season and watch the Pats. Unfortunately, no Sox GM has been Belichick, they are very far from him and of course none of our managers has been as smart as Bill.
 

Zososoxfan

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I just can't understand why people were Duda or bust. Khris Davis and Jay Bruce would've been gigantic improvements over MM at 1B and got Hanley over to DH. That would've made this offense a lot better and based on the prices for 1B, should've been attainable. Bruce really fits the bill to a T. Can't come up with a reason the Reed deal wasn't expanded to include him.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Not to restate the obvious (but I will): The Red Sox are in a good position to make the playoff lottery. Even the Wild Card gets them advanced because of Sale. They apparently couldn't improve their starting pitching - but a strong finish by Price and Porcello gives them an advantage. If the hitters don't hit, then nothing they did this month could make more of a difference than Nunez and (wishcasting) Devers did. Replacing Moreland isn't pushing them through the playoffs, but a resurgent bullpen and wakening starters might.

Are the Indians that much better than Boston? The Royals? The Sonny Gray's? It'll take a sea-change for anyone to beat the Astors this year and it could happen in a short series (imagine them with Darvish or Gray).

It's not a terrible thing to sit back and enjoy the ride considering the playoffs are probably well within reach.
 

patoaflac

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I just can't understand why people were Duda or bust. Khris Davis and Jay Bruce would've been gigantic improvements over MM at 1B and got Hanley over to DH. That would've made this offense a lot better and based on the prices for 1B, should've been attainable. Bruce really fits the bill to a T. Can't come up with a reason the Reed deal wasn't expanded to include him.
Or even Napoli against LHP, any of them would have been improvements and I don´t believe would have cost anything important.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Even the Wild Card gets them advanced because of Sale..
penciling in a W in the wild card game is impossible. not sure if you are actually implying this.

we'll have a great chance to win, but we could easily lose 1-0 in a wild card game or something similar. Or Sale throws up a dud at the worst time. baseball.
 

BigSoxFan

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If this is true, why did they acquire Nuñez and Reed. They should have been sellers.
I agree with Plympton 91, DD didn´t do a good job.
I don´t want a marginal better team that gets into the post-season and is swept by the Astors or worst the yanks. I prefer no post-season and watch the Pats. Unfortunately, no Sox GM has been Belichick, they are very far from him and of course none of our managers has been as smart as Bill.
Yes, you're a front runner. We get it.
 

johnnywayback

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I just can't understand why people were Duda or bust. Khris Davis and Jay Bruce would've been gigantic improvements over MM at 1B and got Hanley over to DH. That would've made this offense a lot better and based on the prices for 1B, should've been attainable. Bruce really fits the bill to a T. Can't come up with a reason the Reed deal wasn't expanded to include him.
Jay Bruce has played 7 games at 1B this season, which, other than 3 games there in 2014, is the extent of his 1B experience. Then again, that's 10 games more than Khris Davis has ever played at 1B.
 

geoduck no quahog

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penciling in a W in the wild card game is impossible. not sure if you are actually implying this.

we'll have a great chance to win, but we could easily lose 1-0 in a wild card game or something similar. Or Sale throws up a dud at the worst time. baseball.
I'm assuming the last 2 months of hitting fail isn't the eventual true outcome. If it is, then kiss the playoffs goodbye.
 

grimshaw

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penciling in a W in the wild card game is impossible. not sure if you are actually implying this.

we'll have a great chance to win, but we could easily lose 1-0 in a wild card game or something similar. Or Sale throws up a dud at the worst time. baseball.
Or that Sale is even available for the WC game. They could very easily have must wins before then.
 

MikeM

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I just can't understand why people were Duda or bust. Khris Davis and Jay Bruce would've been gigantic improvements over MM at 1B and got Hanley over to DH. That would've made this offense a lot better and based on the prices for 1B, should've been attainable. Bruce really fits the bill to a T. Can't come up with a reason the Reed deal wasn't expanded to include him.
It's not so much being Duda or bust as it is a simple matter of being able to speculate on an actual trade that happened. Instead of relying strictly on your own chosen variables that decide who "should've been attainable", and at what cost.

For whatever their reasons may be (maybe they want to resign him, or have him pegged as a QO guy getting $50m+ in the offseason. IDK), I have a hard time believing that Jay Bruce is still sitting on the Mets roster if they were actually looking to give him away at a minimal'ish return. Which basically was our target zone given what we had to offer.
 

simplicio

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The way to think about this: are the Red Sox one of the best teams? Can they win the pennant?
A: they are at best fourth best team in AL.
A: no
To answer your questions with a question, can everyone beyond Pedey/Devers/Nunez figure out how to hit again? If so, then yes and yes.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Q: What will D-Dom do before the trade deadline?
A: Not enough.

Q: What will D-Dom do after the deadline?
A: Commence Brian Cashman ball-washing.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20208787/red-sox-gm-dave-dombrowski-says-yankees-now-warriors-mlb-sonny-gray-trade

Maybe I'm overreacting, but these cutesy little complimentary remarks in the heat of a pennant race in which your team just blew a modest divisional lead, immediately after failing to address your the biggest issue on the roster when cheap solutions were available irks the hell out of me. Not to mention, both rivals upgraded significantly.

Dombrowski deserves a third place finish and being shown the door.

I'm sure Moreland's bat will come around. When has a foot injury ever had any sort of lasting impact on a 1B?
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Q: What will D-Dom do before the trade deadline?
A: Not enough.

Q: What will D-Dom do after the deadline?
A: Commence Brian Cashman ball-washing.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20208787/red-sox-gm-dave-dombrowski-says-yankees-now-warriors-mlb-sonny-gray-trade

Maybe I'm overreacting, but these cutesy little complimentary remarks in the heat of a pennant race in which your team just blew a modest divisional lead, immediately after failing to address your the biggest issue on the roster when cheap solutions were available irks the hell out of me. Not to mention, both rivals upgraded significantly.

Dombrowski deserves a third place finish and being shown the door.

I'm sure Moreland's bat will come around. When has a foot injury ever had any sort of lasting impact on a 1B?
I'm hoping that you're kidding. Otherwise, you need to go back to 11th grade English. Sarcasm, son. Also, two months left.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Q: What will D-Dom do before the trade deadline?
A: Not enough.

Q: What will D-Dom do after the deadline?
A: Commence Brian Cashman ball-washing.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20208787/red-sox-gm-dave-dombrowski-says-yankees-now-warriors-mlb-sonny-gray-trade

Maybe I'm overreacting, but these cutesy little complimentary remarks in the heat of a pennant race in which your team just blew a modest divisional lead, immediately after failing to address your the biggest issue on the roster when cheap solutions were available irks the hell out of me. Not to mention, both rivals upgraded significantly.

Dombrowski deserves a third place finish and being shown the door.

I'm sure Moreland's bat will come around. When has a foot injury ever had any sort of lasting impact on a 1B?
If you are trying to draw a comp to Allen Craig, that's some truly shitting main board posting. He broke a toe. Craig's injury was far more severe.
 

Plympton91

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Missing out on getting Duda for very little was a blunder. Tampa will only have to pay him about $3 million and gave up very little to get him. He would have fixed the gaping hole at first base and given this team the power bat they need.

Duda OPS+ last 5 years:
2013: 118
2014: 137
2015: 130
2016: 91 (injured, only 47 games)
2017: 134

Moreland OPS+ last 5 years:
2013: 99
2014: 80 (only 52 games)
2015: 116
2016: 88
2017: 92

Duda is a much better hitter than Moreland, even if Moreland's swing wasn't messed up from his injury. But it is messed up, and he is a black hole, making the difference even greater.

Duda was a big miss.
Yeah, I just don't get this. The Meta liked these three prospects well enough to trade Reed for them. Wouldl they be valuing Reed and Duda that differently?

I don't understand why you'd go for a reliever over a middle of the order bat.

If one 23 year old in A ball is more valuable than 3 of our prospects including a 22 year old in AAA then the cupboard is really barren.

If this package would have beaten the Duda package, then they chose poorly IMHO.
 

patoaflac

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Yeah, I just don't get this. The Meta liked these three prospects well enough to trade Reed for them. Wouldl they be valuing Reed and Duda that differently?

I don't understand why you'd go for a reliever over a middle of the order bat.

If one 23 year old in A ball is more valuable than 3 of our prospects including a 22 year old in AAA then the cupboard is really barren.

If this package would have beaten the Duda package, then they chose poorly IMHO.
Also I believe they didn't do a good job, not addressing the biggest need. Besides, if you don't aim to win the WS, then sell whatever you can and do not waste your loterry tckets.
 

AB in DC

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Something about the Duda situation smells wrong. If a single mediocre Rays prospect was enough to land Duda, why didn't the other 29 teams show any interest?

I'm thinking there's something about Duda that we don't know about.
 

tonyarmasjr

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Also I believe they didn't do a good job, not addressing the biggest need. Besides, if you don't aim to win the WS, then sell whatever you can and do not waste your loterry tckets.
This is so stupid. Were you paying attention even 10 months ago? You know, when the best offense in baseball, who had outscored their opponents in the ALDS by 100 runs during the season, got swept out of it by the likes of Trevor Bauer and Josh Tomlin? These kind of things happen in baseball, every day of every season. Aiming to win the World Series doesn't mean building the best fantasy baseball roster by the trade deadline. It means building a roster that can get into the playoffs and gets hot at the right time. Now, it's fair to debate whether they've done that, but to dismiss it like this is folly. Or should MLB just give the Dodgers the trophy now?

Also, you do know baseball is different from football, right?
 

Lowrielicious

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Assuming the prospects sent for Reed could have had Duda instead (we likely will never know), it could simply be the redsox decision makers have faith that the current offense will improve from their results so far plus the addition of Devers and Nunez to the point that the bullpen will not or cannot. So they chose to upgrade the bullpen with it being the area of greater need.
 

Byrdbrain

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This is so stupid. Were you paying attention even 10 months ago? You know, when the best offense in baseball, who had outscored their opponents in the ALDS by 100 runs during the season, got swept out of it by the likes of Trevor Bauer and Josh Tomlin? These kind of things happen in baseball, every day of every season. Aiming to win the World Series doesn't mean building the best fantasy baseball roster by the trade deadline. It means building a roster that can get into the playoffs and gets hot at the right time. Now, it's fair to debate whether they've done that, but to dismiss it like this is folly. Or should MLB just give the Dodgers the trophy now?

Also, you do know baseball is different from football, right?
Based on everything else he has posted I have no idea why you would assume the bolded.
 

Wingack

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Something about the Duda situation smells wrong. If a single mediocre Rays prospect was enough to land Duda, why didn't the other 29 teams show any interest?

I'm thinking there's something about Duda that we don't know about.
Yankees wanted him but apparently the Mets didn't want to send him across town. Yankees could have easily topped what TB offered.
 

jon abbey

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I am shocked Darvish went for so little
He's just a rental and he's been absolutely awful in recent weeks. The list of teams willing to give up a top 100 prospect for that (which Calhoun is) is pretty short, and the TEX and HOU front offices evidently don't get along.
 

Harry Hooper

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I am shocked Darvish went for so little
Passan has a good piece about the last-minute move by the Rangers to trade Darvish:

While the Astros and Rangers organizations share a mutual dislike bordering on contempt, it didn’t prevent the sides from talking about Darvish. Never did they come anywhere close to the parameters on a mutually agreeable deal, though, which surprised teams around baseball – including the Dodgers – who believed the Astros and Rangers matched up best of all the teams involved.

The last conversation between Houston and Texas was an hour before the deadline, and the stalemate was obvious.
 

Byrdbrain

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He was on EEI today and flat out denied that ownership told him not to move top prospects.
He did say they weren't looking at the type of trades where top prospects would be required. As an example it was mentioned that the only two players on the market that would have require top prospects, Gray and Darvish, were at a position where they considered themselves set and they weren't involved.
 

Boggs26

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Yankees wanted him but apparently the Mets didn't want to send him across town. Yankees could have easily topped what TB offered.
Technically, I'm pretty sure every team could have easily topped what TB offered - without damaging their ml rankings at all. Is there any team that doesn't have a prospect outside the top 15-20 that's better than a mediocre middle relief prospect?

Sent from my SM-N920V using SoSH mobile app
 

Sampo Gida

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Someone claimed Ian Kinsler today. Any possibility it's the Sox? With Pedey's knee, it may make sense.
Its possible. They could move him to 1B when Pedey is available or 3B if Devers struggles. It could also be the Yankees . They could then move Castro to DH as he recovers from that strain and next year pick up the option and use Kinsler at DH or just trade him.

I think its one of those 2 teams
 

chrisfont9

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Assuming the prospects sent for Reed could have had Duda instead (we likely will never know), it could simply be the redsox decision makers have faith that the current offense will improve from their results so far plus the addition of Devers and Nunez to the point that the bullpen will not or cannot. So they chose to upgrade the bullpen with it being the area of greater need.
Duda makes an extra million or so too. And he's three years older, so if you're thinking of trying to retain one of them (both are FAs) Reed might have more post-2017 appeal.
 

grimshaw

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Heyman noted it wasn't the Brewers who claimed him. They were a team rumored to be interested before the deadline.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Someone claimed Ian Kinsler today. Any possibility it's the Sox? With Pedey's knee, it may make sense.
With Nunez around, I don't think the Sox are overly anxious about replacing Pedroia in the short-term.

Adding Kinsler right now would add roughly $4.5M (his AAV pro-rated for the remaining games) to the payroll. Not sure if that would put them over the luxury tax, but it would certainly eat most of whatever wiggle room they have left.